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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for New analysis explores whether Congress can do a better job with CCS than Bush administration]]></title>
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            <title>Comment #1 by Pompey Road</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/can-the-coal-industry-be-saved-in-spite-of-itself-should-it-be/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 20 Apr 2008 05:41:17 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/can-the-coal-industry-be-saved-in-spite-of-itself-should-it-be/1</guid>
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				<p><strong>Bacteria BTU's</strong></p><p>The carbon capture will not work, and yes coal is worth saving only because it could keep us out of a Middle East War that could wipe us out quicker than global warming. </p><p>
We need to become energy independent of the middle east. I would 10 time rather it be from clean alternative fuels, but on has to be realistic also. </p><p>
We are the Saudia Arabia of coal, we just need to learn how to burn it cleaner and we need something on the scale of the Manhattan Project to accomplish this. Sell bonds, whatever, get it done. </p><p>
I like the thought of the new Microbe or Bacteria that eats coal and produces gas that will burn and meet the Co2 requirements. Introduce it into an underground seam and pipe the gas straight to the powerplant. We already have an excellent pipe or gas transportation system in. You use no added fuel to transport it and the process leaves all the heavy metals and bad stuff in the ground. </p><p>
You also get the added advantage of not having to send miners down to mine it. MSHA rules and regulations do not apply to microbes so the cost of mining underground will drop precipitously. </p><p>
I personally would love to see it for above ground mining, I hate MTR with a passion, it will never be developed in enough time to save all these mountains, valleys and fresh water streams. 

<p>The eons of time and nature was good to us down here. It was not until we become civilized that destroying our habitat become fathomable or fashionable.</p></p>
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				<p><strong>Bacteria BTU's</strong></p><p>The carbon capture will not work, and yes coal is worth saving only because it could keep us out of a Middle East War that could wipe us out quicker than global warming. </p><p>
We need to become energy independent of the middle east. I would 10 time rather it be from clean alternative fuels, but on has to be realistic also. </p><p>
We are the Saudia Arabia of coal, we just need to learn how to burn it cleaner and we need something on the scale of the Manhattan Project to accomplish this. Sell bonds, whatever, get it done. </p><p>
I like the thought of the new Microbe or Bacteria that eats coal and produces gas that will burn and meet the Co2 requirements. Introduce it into an underground seam and pipe the gas straight to the powerplant. We already have an excellent pipe or gas transportation system in. You use no added fuel to transport it and the process leaves all the heavy metals and bad stuff in the ground. </p><p>
You also get the added advantage of not having to send miners down to mine it. MSHA rules and regulations do not apply to microbes so the cost of mining underground will drop precipitously. </p><p>
I personally would love to see it for above ground mining, I hate MTR with a passion, it will never be developed in enough time to save all these mountains, valleys and fresh water streams. 

<p>The eons of time and nature was good to us down here. It was not until we become civilized that destroying our habitat become fathomable or fashionable.</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by GreyFlcn</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/can-the-coal-industry-be-saved-in-spite-of-itself-should-it-be/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 20 Apr 2008 06:44:44 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/can-the-coal-industry-be-saved-in-spite-of-itself-should-it-be/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>Heh oops<p>Well this was in response to the older coal post Romm made, but oh well here goes:<br>
<a href="http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2007/9/2/14286/68801" rel="nofollow">http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2007/9/2/14286/68801<p>
_____<p>
Well lets see, <p>
1. We could reduce the ammount of natural gas we waste, by removing biofuels.<br>
<a href="http://seekingalpha.com/article/33925-natural-gas-investors-to-benefit-from-global-ethanol-boom" rel="nofollow">http://seekingalpha.com/article/33925-natural-gas-investo ...<br>
<a href="http://greyfalcon.net/rollingstones" rel="nofollow">http://greyfalcon.net/rollingstones<p>
2. We could shift to digested biogas. One of the few forms of "biofuel" which has an existing national infrastructure, and leaves all the nutrient rich material left over with the farmer. Germany for instance is investigating transitioning the entire EU natural gas supply, currently imported from Russia, all the way over to biogas.<br>
<a href="http://biopact.com/2008/01/report-biogas-can-replace-all-eu.html" rel="nofollow">http://biopact.com/2008/01/report-biogas-can-replace-all- ...<p>
3. As for Nuclear. Nuclear can't even get private financing, and it doesn't even have enough logistics merely to maintain the status quo.<br>
What makes you think that it can scale better?<br>
<a href="http://greyfalcon.net/nucleareconomics" rel="nofollow">http://greyfalcon.net/nucleareconomics<br>
(Warning, lots of deep reading links)<p>
4. Solar Thermal with Compact Fresnel Reflectors for instance, uses pretty much everything off the shelf.<br>
<a href="http://jcwinnie.biz/wordpress/?p=2470" rel="nofollow">http://jcwinnie.biz/wordpress/?p=2470<br>
<a href="http://youtube.com/watch?v=J_IMRLi8HdY" rel="nofollow">http://youtube.com/watch?v=J_IMRLi8HdY<p>
5. Solar Thermal Towers with Heliostats, are pretty much just a bunch of plate glass mirrors.<br>
<a href="http://www.brightsourceenergy.com/dpt.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.brightsourceenergy.com/dpt.htm<br>
<a href="http://www.esolar.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.esolar.com/<p>
6. Geothermal, can expand at a dramatic rate and has equal or better capacity factor than nuclear.<br>
At a lower capital cost, and less than a quarter/eigth of the citing+build time.<br>
<a href="http://www.rasertech.com/uptospeed/" rel="nofollow">http://www.rasertech.com/uptospeed/<p>
7. Wind? &nbsp;Frankly I don't know too much.<br>
But the potential is there if they can figure it out.<br>
<a href="http://www.ecogeek.org/content/view/1476/86/" rel="nofollow">http://www.ecogeek.org/content/view/1476/86/<br>
<a href="http://www.google.com/corporate/green/energy/makani.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.google.com/corporate/green/energy/makani.pdf<p>
8. Google of course is focusing on<br>


 Heat Storage Solar Thermal<br>
 Hot Dry Rock Geothermal<br>
 High Altitude Wind<br>


Why these focuses? &nbsp;Because they can scale like crazy.<br>
<a href="http://greyfalcon.net/google" rel="nofollow">http://greyfalcon.net/google<br>
<a href="http://greyfalcon.net/google2" rel="nofollow">http://greyfalcon.net/google2<p>
9. To redress nuclear again.<br>
What makes you think it can scale fast and loose, without proliferation issues?<br>
Even if that's to be avoided, thats one hell of an overhead cost.<br>
Hand waving it and saying "It wouldn't happen and so we wouldn't have to spend a dime" wouldn't be honest.<br>
<a href="http://greyfalcon.net/nucleargore.png" rel="nofollow">http://greyfalcon.net/nucleargore.png<br>
<a href="http://greyfalcon.net/yellowcake" rel="nofollow">http://greyfalcon.net/yellowcake</a></br></a></br></br></br></br></p></a></br></a></br></br></br></br></br></p></a></br></a></br></br></p></a></br></br></p></a></br></a></br></p></a></br></a></br></p></br></a></br></br></p></a></br></p></a></br></a></br></p></p></p></a></br></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Heh oops<p>Well this was in response to the older coal post Romm made, but oh well here goes:<br>
<a href="http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2007/9/2/14286/68801" rel="nofollow">http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2007/9/2/14286/68801<p>
_____<p>
Well lets see, <p>
1. We could reduce the ammount of natural gas we waste, by removing biofuels.<br>
<a href="http://seekingalpha.com/article/33925-natural-gas-investors-to-benefit-from-global-ethanol-boom" rel="nofollow">http://seekingalpha.com/article/33925-natural-gas-investo ...<br>
<a href="http://greyfalcon.net/rollingstones" rel="nofollow">http://greyfalcon.net/rollingstones<p>
2. We could shift to digested biogas. One of the few forms of "biofuel" which has an existing national infrastructure, and leaves all the nutrient rich material left over with the farmer. Germany for instance is investigating transitioning the entire EU natural gas supply, currently imported from Russia, all the way over to biogas.<br>
<a href="http://biopact.com/2008/01/report-biogas-can-replace-all-eu.html" rel="nofollow">http://biopact.com/2008/01/report-biogas-can-replace-all- ...<p>
3. As for Nuclear. Nuclear can't even get private financing, and it doesn't even have enough logistics merely to maintain the status quo.<br>
What makes you think that it can scale better?<br>
<a href="http://greyfalcon.net/nucleareconomics" rel="nofollow">http://greyfalcon.net/nucleareconomics<br>
(Warning, lots of deep reading links)<p>
4. Solar Thermal with Compact Fresnel Reflectors for instance, uses pretty much everything off the shelf.<br>
<a href="http://jcwinnie.biz/wordpress/?p=2470" rel="nofollow">http://jcwinnie.biz/wordpress/?p=2470<br>
<a href="http://youtube.com/watch?v=J_IMRLi8HdY" rel="nofollow">http://youtube.com/watch?v=J_IMRLi8HdY<p>
5. Solar Thermal Towers with Heliostats, are pretty much just a bunch of plate glass mirrors.<br>
<a href="http://www.brightsourceenergy.com/dpt.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.brightsourceenergy.com/dpt.htm<br>
<a href="http://www.esolar.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.esolar.com/<p>
6. Geothermal, can expand at a dramatic rate and has equal or better capacity factor than nuclear.<br>
At a lower capital cost, and less than a quarter/eigth of the citing+build time.<br>
<a href="http://www.rasertech.com/uptospeed/" rel="nofollow">http://www.rasertech.com/uptospeed/<p>
7. Wind? &nbsp;Frankly I don't know too much.<br>
But the potential is there if they can figure it out.<br>
<a href="http://www.ecogeek.org/content/view/1476/86/" rel="nofollow">http://www.ecogeek.org/content/view/1476/86/<br>
<a href="http://www.google.com/corporate/green/energy/makani.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.google.com/corporate/green/energy/makani.pdf<p>
8. Google of course is focusing on<br>


 Heat Storage Solar Thermal<br>
 Hot Dry Rock Geothermal<br>
 High Altitude Wind<br>


Why these focuses? &nbsp;Because they can scale like crazy.<br>
<a href="http://greyfalcon.net/google" rel="nofollow">http://greyfalcon.net/google<br>
<a href="http://greyfalcon.net/google2" rel="nofollow">http://greyfalcon.net/google2<p>
9. To redress nuclear again.<br>
What makes you think it can scale fast and loose, without proliferation issues?<br>
Even if that's to be avoided, thats one hell of an overhead cost.<br>
Hand waving it and saying "It wouldn't happen and so we wouldn't have to spend a dime" wouldn't be honest.<br>
<a href="http://greyfalcon.net/nucleargore.png" rel="nofollow">http://greyfalcon.net/nucleargore.png<br>
<a href="http://greyfalcon.net/yellowcake" rel="nofollow">http://greyfalcon.net/yellowcake</a></br></a></br></br></br></br></p></a></br></a></br></br></br></br></br></p></a></br></a></br></br></p></a></br></br></p></a></br></a></br></p></a></br></a></br></p></br></a></br></br></p></a></br></p></a></br></a></br></p></p></p></a></br></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by VeganCountyFan</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/can-the-coal-industry-be-saved-in-spite-of-itself-should-it-be/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 21 Apr 2008 19:19:44 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/can-the-coal-industry-be-saved-in-spite-of-itself-should-it-be/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>GreyFlcn</strong></p><p>Sorry, your nuclear economics link didn't work - could you post again please?<br>
</br></p>
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				<p><strong>GreyFlcn</strong></p><p>Sorry, your nuclear economics link didn't work - could you post again please?<br>
</br></p>
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