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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Shockingly, it&#8217;s the same as the old climate strategy]]></title>
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            <title>Comment #1 by Delay And Deny</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/bushs-new-climate-strategy/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2007 05:06:44 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/bushs-new-climate-strategy/1</guid>
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				<p><strong>Why Bush is Great<p><br>
This represents why Bush is great -- he will not give in to the phoneys who are trying to tax the world with phoney science and hoaxes.<p>
The Europeans, terrorists, Russians and Chinese would like nothing better than to cripple the American economy and impose their fascist ways on the free American middle class.<p>
Bush is the true leader of Freedom.

<p>John Bailo, The "Denier Guy"<br>
<a href="http://you-read-it-here-first.com" rel="nofollow">You Read It Here First</a></br></p></p></p></br></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Why Bush is Great<p><br>
This represents why Bush is great -- he will not give in to the phoneys who are trying to tax the world with phoney science and hoaxes.<p>
The Europeans, terrorists, Russians and Chinese would like nothing better than to cripple the American economy and impose their fascist ways on the free American middle class.<p>
Bush is the true leader of Freedom.

<p>John Bailo, The "Denier Guy"<br>
<a href="http://you-read-it-here-first.com" rel="nofollow">You Read It Here First</a></br></p></p></p></br></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by Ron Steenblik</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/bushs-new-climate-strategy/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2007 05:21:12 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/bushs-new-climate-strategy/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>Why the cynicism on trade liberalization?<p>David, I'm not here to defend the President's strategy, but there is actually a lot of international interest in liberalising trade in environmental goods and services (EG&amp;S). Indeed, apart from the discussions on fish subsidies (which, like those on EG&amp;S have been on-going in the WTO since the end of 2001), the initiative on EG&amp;S is one of the few specifically "environmental" outcomes that could emerge out of the Doha Round of multilateral trade negotiations. <p>
And the goods on the list being negotiated are not primarily for "clean" coal, if at all. They include necessary things, like air-quality monitoring instruments, particulate filters, booms for cleaning up oil spills. It always amazed me that this initiative seems to have remained almost entirely off the radar screen of environmental groups.<p>
Here's a handy <a href="http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/63/15/35415839.pdf" rel="nofollow">backgrounder, by the way (written by yours truly a couple of years ago).</a></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Why the cynicism on trade liberalization?<p>David, I'm not here to defend the President's strategy, but there is actually a lot of international interest in liberalising trade in environmental goods and services (EG&amp;S). Indeed, apart from the discussions on fish subsidies (which, like those on EG&amp;S have been on-going in the WTO since the end of 2001), the initiative on EG&amp;S is one of the few specifically "environmental" outcomes that could emerge out of the Doha Round of multilateral trade negotiations. <p>
And the goods on the list being negotiated are not primarily for "clean" coal, if at all. They include necessary things, like air-quality monitoring instruments, particulate filters, booms for cleaning up oil spills. It always amazed me that this initiative seems to have remained almost entirely off the radar screen of environmental groups.<p>
Here's a handy <a href="http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/63/15/35415839.pdf" rel="nofollow">backgrounder, by the way (written by yours truly a couple of years ago).</a></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by wedjr</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/bushs-new-climate-strategy/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2007 05:24:56 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/bushs-new-climate-strategy/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>kicking our butts</strong></p><p>On display, in the rejection this week of G8/EU climate policy positions, in the utterly bizarre sophistry from NASA Administrator Griffin, and in Bush's speech today, is well thought-out strategic communications plan to simultaneously reinforce the distrust of international agreements as unfair, reinforce doubt about human responsibility for climate change, and yet reinforce American leadership to address it. Nowhere in sight is a coordinated response from dysfunctional environmental and social justice communities. No one is connecting the dots, calling them out, exposing their strategy. No one is raising any kind of ruckus. The only conclusion to draw is that thee is no climate movement in this country, just an inchoate choir content to delude ourselves about progress through our daily fix of self-selected, self-reinforcing RSS feeds. &nbsp;Where is the coordinated action? Where is the "movement's" rapid response team? Where is the full-page ad in tomorrows WSJ screaming "HOW DARE YOU, PRESIDENT BUSH!" signed by real leaders? We are being totally outflanked.</p>
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				<p><strong>kicking our butts</strong></p><p>On display, in the rejection this week of G8/EU climate policy positions, in the utterly bizarre sophistry from NASA Administrator Griffin, and in Bush's speech today, is well thought-out strategic communications plan to simultaneously reinforce the distrust of international agreements as unfair, reinforce doubt about human responsibility for climate change, and yet reinforce American leadership to address it. Nowhere in sight is a coordinated response from dysfunctional environmental and social justice communities. No one is connecting the dots, calling them out, exposing their strategy. No one is raising any kind of ruckus. The only conclusion to draw is that thee is no climate movement in this country, just an inchoate choir content to delude ourselves about progress through our daily fix of self-selected, self-reinforcing RSS feeds. &nbsp;Where is the coordinated action? Where is the "movement's" rapid response team? Where is the full-page ad in tomorrows WSJ screaming "HOW DARE YOU, PRESIDENT BUSH!" signed by real leaders? We are being totally outflanked.</p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by Ron Steenblik</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/bushs-new-climate-strategy/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2007 05:25:40 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/bushs-new-climate-strategy/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>Footnote</strong></p><p>Rereading, I realize I didn't tie my previous remarks very closely to David's reference to liberalizing trade in "clean energy technology".</p><p>
Among the goods included on the draft lists for accellerated trade liberalization at the WTO are things like solar cells, wind turbines, solar water heaters, LCD lights, ...</p><p>
You'd be surprised how high import tariffs are on things like solar water heaters -- even (indeed, especially) in countries with sunny climates.</p>
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				<p><strong>Footnote</strong></p><p>Rereading, I realize I didn't tie my previous remarks very closely to David's reference to liberalizing trade in "clean energy technology".</p><p>
Among the goods included on the draft lists for accellerated trade liberalization at the WTO are things like solar cells, wind turbines, solar water heaters, LCD lights, ...</p><p>
You'd be surprised how high import tariffs are on things like solar water heaters -- even (indeed, especially) in countries with sunny climates.</p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by Steve Bloom</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/bushs-new-climate-strategy/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2007 05:44:06 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/bushs-new-climate-strategy/5</guid>
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				<p><strong>Not cynical enough by half</strong></p><p>The Bush goal is to lock in his horrific policies for as long as possible after he and his minions are out of office. &nbsp;Consistent with that, he really does want a treaty in place before he leaves -- the weakest possible one, set up so that a future administration will have a hard time improving the situation very quickly.</p><p>
A related example of this is locking the moon/Mars stuff into the budget while gutting the Earth observation missions. &nbsp;This is damage that will take years to reverse. &nbsp;While we're on this subject, I think it's an excellent litmus test for the Dems. &nbsp;Will they be able to produce a NASA budget that properly funds the satellites and reduces the interplanetary stuff to the small-scale research level where it belongs? &nbsp;Unfortunately, as it stands now I'm going to have to predict that they they'll give Bush most of what he wants this year and next.</p><p>
They're also trying to lock in a permanent war on terror, but that's another subject.<br>
</br></p>
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				<p><strong>Not cynical enough by half</strong></p><p>The Bush goal is to lock in his horrific policies for as long as possible after he and his minions are out of office. &nbsp;Consistent with that, he really does want a treaty in place before he leaves -- the weakest possible one, set up so that a future administration will have a hard time improving the situation very quickly.</p><p>
A related example of this is locking the moon/Mars stuff into the budget while gutting the Earth observation missions. &nbsp;This is damage that will take years to reverse. &nbsp;While we're on this subject, I think it's an excellent litmus test for the Dems. &nbsp;Will they be able to produce a NASA budget that properly funds the satellites and reduces the interplanetary stuff to the small-scale research level where it belongs? &nbsp;Unfortunately, as it stands now I'm going to have to predict that they they'll give Bush most of what he wants this year and next.</p><p>
They're also trying to lock in a permanent war on terror, but that's another subject.<br>
</br></p>
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            <title>Comment #6 by tico89</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/bushs-new-climate-strategy/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2007 09:10:43 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/bushs-new-climate-strategy/6</guid>
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				<p><strong>Why can the U.S. never follow?<p>There are plenty of climate strategies and initiatives floating around, so why can't Bush just follow for once, instead of always having to lead? Does everything have to be on the United States' terms, and controlled by them?<p>
I think <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,2092628,00.html" rel="nofollow">this sums it up best:<br>
Tony Juniper, the head of Friends of the Earth, said: "This is a deliberate and carefully crafted attempt to derail any prospect of a climate change agreement (at the G8 summit) in Germany next week. [Mr Bush] is trying to destroy the prospect of that getting anywhere by announcing his own parallel process with very vaguely expressed objectives ... Basically we should see this as a delaying tactic to keep the climate change issue off his back in terms of any real decisions until he leaves office (in early 2009)."<p>
Oh well, I guess, to look on the bright side, it's better than nothing.

<p>If I share initials with 'Global Warming', is that a sign?</p></p></br></a></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Why can the U.S. never follow?<p>There are plenty of climate strategies and initiatives floating around, so why can't Bush just follow for once, instead of always having to lead? Does everything have to be on the United States' terms, and controlled by them?<p>
I think <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,2092628,00.html" rel="nofollow">this sums it up best:<br>
Tony Juniper, the head of Friends of the Earth, said: "This is a deliberate and carefully crafted attempt to derail any prospect of a climate change agreement (at the G8 summit) in Germany next week. [Mr Bush] is trying to destroy the prospect of that getting anywhere by announcing his own parallel process with very vaguely expressed objectives ... Basically we should see this as a delaying tactic to keep the climate change issue off his back in terms of any real decisions until he leaves office (in early 2009)."<p>
Oh well, I guess, to look on the bright side, it's better than nothing.

<p>If I share initials with 'Global Warming', is that a sign?</p></p></br></a></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #7 by Delay And Deny</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/bushs-new-climate-strategy/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2007 18:02:10 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/bushs-new-climate-strategy/7</guid>
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				<p><strong>Bush Aced...<p><br>
looks like Bush aced the Climate Changers...he's calling...get everyone here on the table and lay their cards out.

<p>John Bailo, The "Denier Guy"<br>
<a href="http://you-read-it-here-first.com" rel="nofollow">You Read It Here First</a></br></p></br></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Bush Aced...<p><br>
looks like Bush aced the Climate Changers...he's calling...get everyone here on the table and lay their cards out.

<p>John Bailo, The "Denier Guy"<br>
<a href="http://you-read-it-here-first.com" rel="nofollow">You Read It Here First</a></br></p></br></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #8 by pcarbo</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/bushs-new-climate-strategy/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 07:27:27 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/bushs-new-climate-strategy/8</guid>
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				<p><strong>I need an analogy here</strong></p><p><br>
You establish that China and India are obligated to pledge GHG reductions equal to the U.S. and other developed countries, despite the fact that the developed countries are responsible for the vast bulk of the GHG already in the atmosphere, and still far exceed China and India in per-capita emissions. <br>
</p><p>
I would like an analogy from sports or the schoolyard to illustrate to my friends why the waiting-on-China-and-India game is not cool. My imagination is failing me. Any suggestions?</br></br></p>
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				<p><strong>I need an analogy here</strong></p><p><br>
You establish that China and India are obligated to pledge GHG reductions equal to the U.S. and other developed countries, despite the fact that the developed countries are responsible for the vast bulk of the GHG already in the atmosphere, and still far exceed China and India in per-capita emissions. <br>
</p><p>
I would like an analogy from sports or the schoolyard to illustrate to my friends why the waiting-on-China-and-India game is not cool. My imagination is failing me. Any suggestions?</br></br></p>
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            <title>Comment #9 by JMG</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/bushs-new-climate-strategy/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 08:27:09 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/bushs-new-climate-strategy/9</guid>
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				<p><strong>Bob Park, always acerbically on target<p><p>
WHAT'S NEW &nbsp; <br>
Robert L. Park &nbsp; Friday, 1 Jun 07 &nbsp; Washington, DC<p>
1. CLIMATE CHANGE: BUSH PROPOSES A NEW APPROACH - SET GOALS.<br>
President Bush rejected the Kyoto treaty six years ago, saying it would "harm our economy." "Climate change" did not show up in Bush's vocabulary until his 2007 State-of-the-Union address. &nbsp;Yesterday, however, pressured to take action, he trotted out his "new international climate change framework," declaring "the United States takes this issue seriously." &nbsp;Other leaders at next week's G-8 summit, who are leaning toward a bold German plan to reduce greenhouse emissions 50% by 2050, are unlikely to be impressed. &nbsp;The plan outlined by the White House is classic Bush: it contained no concrete targets or dates, no enforcement mechanism, no penalties for noncompliance, and it wouldn't take effect until four years after Bush leaves office. &nbsp;<p>
2. WHAT CLIMATE PROBLEM? &nbsp;NASA HEAD IS ON A DIFFERENT PLANET.<br>
Just two hours before the President's remarks, Michael Griffin, the man Bush picked to head the agency charged with collecting climate change data, was interviewed on National Public Radio. &nbsp;He defended cuts in programs to monitor climate change: It frees resources for a manned moon base, and a new crew transportation vehicle to take astronauts to the Moon, Mars and the space station. &nbsp;He saw no need to take action against global warming. &nbsp;"Who has the privilege of deciding that this is the best climate for all other human beings," he asked? &nbsp;Just two months ago the IPCC report detailed the enormous cost of global warming on human life. &nbsp;Where has he been? &nbsp; <br>
... &nbsp;<p>
THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND.<br>
Opinions are the author's and not necessarily shared by the University of Maryland, but they should be.<br>
---<br>
Archives of What's New can be found at <a href="http://www.bobpark.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.bobpark.org <br>


<p>Save the world:  Reduce greenhouse gas emissions 5% annually.</p></br></a></br></br></br></p></br></br></p></br></p></br></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Bob Park, always acerbically on target<p><p>
WHAT'S NEW &nbsp; <br>
Robert L. Park &nbsp; Friday, 1 Jun 07 &nbsp; Washington, DC<p>
1. CLIMATE CHANGE: BUSH PROPOSES A NEW APPROACH - SET GOALS.<br>
President Bush rejected the Kyoto treaty six years ago, saying it would "harm our economy." "Climate change" did not show up in Bush's vocabulary until his 2007 State-of-the-Union address. &nbsp;Yesterday, however, pressured to take action, he trotted out his "new international climate change framework," declaring "the United States takes this issue seriously." &nbsp;Other leaders at next week's G-8 summit, who are leaning toward a bold German plan to reduce greenhouse emissions 50% by 2050, are unlikely to be impressed. &nbsp;The plan outlined by the White House is classic Bush: it contained no concrete targets or dates, no enforcement mechanism, no penalties for noncompliance, and it wouldn't take effect until four years after Bush leaves office. &nbsp;<p>
2. WHAT CLIMATE PROBLEM? &nbsp;NASA HEAD IS ON A DIFFERENT PLANET.<br>
Just two hours before the President's remarks, Michael Griffin, the man Bush picked to head the agency charged with collecting climate change data, was interviewed on National Public Radio. &nbsp;He defended cuts in programs to monitor climate change: It frees resources for a manned moon base, and a new crew transportation vehicle to take astronauts to the Moon, Mars and the space station. &nbsp;He saw no need to take action against global warming. &nbsp;"Who has the privilege of deciding that this is the best climate for all other human beings," he asked? &nbsp;Just two months ago the IPCC report detailed the enormous cost of global warming on human life. &nbsp;Where has he been? &nbsp; <br>
... &nbsp;<p>
THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND.<br>
Opinions are the author's and not necessarily shared by the University of Maryland, but they should be.<br>
---<br>
Archives of What's New can be found at <a href="http://www.bobpark.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.bobpark.org <br>


<p>Save the world:  Reduce greenhouse gas emissions 5% annually.</p></br></a></br></br></br></p></br></br></p></br></p></br></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #10 by kbrash</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/bushs-new-climate-strategy/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jul 2007 06:07:00 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/bushs-new-climate-strategy/10</guid>
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				<p><strong>Fact-check</strong></p><p>Hi <br>
Let's not underestimate the number of international meetings that have actually occurred on climate change. The most recent COP was #12, and it was held in Nairobi last November. Of course, that doesn't even account for the technical meetings, which occur at a rate of at least 4 a year. Not sure if all these meetings are helping, but it does seem arrogant to propose a whole new series of them will. </br></p>
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				<p><strong>Fact-check</strong></p><p>Hi <br>
Let's not underestimate the number of international meetings that have actually occurred on climate change. The most recent COP was #12, and it was held in Nairobi last November. Of course, that doesn't even account for the technical meetings, which occur at a rate of at least 4 a year. Not sure if all these meetings are helping, but it does seem arrogant to propose a whole new series of them will. </br></p>
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