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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Legendary Burning Man festival gets an eco-conscience]]></title>
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            <title>Comment #1 by REwonk</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/burningman/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2007 03:14:38 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/burningman/1</guid>
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				<p><strong>Short shrift for the greeness of Burning Man</strong></p><p>I actually think this article gives the green aspects of BM short shrift. When we went last year (was that just last year???), we camped with our Honda Insight hybrid near people with a giant solar toaster, a solar shower, and a biodiesel-fueled bus (a giant one that could've been a band's tour bus). And those were all folks that showed up independent of one another, not as part of some green theme camp.</p><p>
As a whole, Burning Man does involve a lot of diesel generators and stuff burning up. But it also involves some 40,000 or so people living for up to a week in the desert with only what they brought with them. So on an individual level, it inspires an attitude of living with low energy use and extreme water conservation. Just like a long backpacking trip, for most people the Burning Man experience is largely about getting by with less ... and that can translate back to the homefront, too.</p><p>
Sure, there are those folks that show up with the tractor-trailers, the diesel generators, the giant sound systems, and the i-don't-know-how-many-watt green lasers. But off the main concourse, most of the participants are getting by with as little as possible, and that experience can leave a lasting impact on the psyche.<br>
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				<p><strong>Short shrift for the greeness of Burning Man</strong></p><p>I actually think this article gives the green aspects of BM short shrift. When we went last year (was that just last year???), we camped with our Honda Insight hybrid near people with a giant solar toaster, a solar shower, and a biodiesel-fueled bus (a giant one that could've been a band's tour bus). And those were all folks that showed up independent of one another, not as part of some green theme camp.</p><p>
As a whole, Burning Man does involve a lot of diesel generators and stuff burning up. But it also involves some 40,000 or so people living for up to a week in the desert with only what they brought with them. So on an individual level, it inspires an attitude of living with low energy use and extreme water conservation. Just like a long backpacking trip, for most people the Burning Man experience is largely about getting by with less ... and that can translate back to the homefront, too.</p><p>
Sure, there are those folks that show up with the tractor-trailers, the diesel generators, the giant sound systems, and the i-don't-know-how-many-watt green lasers. But off the main concourse, most of the participants are getting by with as little as possible, and that experience can leave a lasting impact on the psyche.<br>
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            <title>Comment #2 by wiscidea</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/burningman/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2007 08:03:57 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/burningman/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>A celebration of...<p>... wanton destruction of natural resources and pumping CO2 into the atmosphere like there's no tomorrow. All for entertainment.<p>
Symbolic of the American lifestyle... justified by a few carbon offsets! Symbolic of the absurdity of offsets!<p>
And then there is that other underlying assumption... its just a desert... no problem if thousands of people trample thin desert varnish (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desert_varnish" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desert_varnish) again and again and again... while they watch tons of carbon go into the atmospere. The prairie is just a bunch of grass... till it. The arctic is a wasteland... drill it. The desert is barren... drive wherever you wish. Destroy the surface. Disrupt animal life. But please don't litter. What a joke!!!</a></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>A celebration of...<p>... wanton destruction of natural resources and pumping CO2 into the atmosphere like there's no tomorrow. All for entertainment.<p>
Symbolic of the American lifestyle... justified by a few carbon offsets! Symbolic of the absurdity of offsets!<p>
And then there is that other underlying assumption... its just a desert... no problem if thousands of people trample thin desert varnish (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desert_varnish" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desert_varnish) again and again and again... while they watch tons of carbon go into the atmospere. The prairie is just a bunch of grass... till it. The arctic is a wasteland... drill it. The desert is barren... drive wherever you wish. Destroy the surface. Disrupt animal life. But please don't litter. What a joke!!!</a></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by wiscidea</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/burningman/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2007 08:27:59 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/burningman/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>And next...</strong></p><p>British Petroleum creates "Performance Art Beach"!!!</p><p>
Tens of thousands of people celebrate as refineries dump thousands of tons of toxic waste into Lake Michigan! It is said to be a commentary on modern civilization's destruction of nature.</p><p>
They assure environmentalists that the toxic waste is, well, waste. So it is okay to just dump it. They'll plant some trees in Africa to compensate for some of the environmental damge, but point out that Lake Michigan is not really a natural environment anymore.</p><p>
Environmentalists go wild, dancing nude next to the glowing water. Covered live over the internet, the dumping of toxic waste generates awareness of the Earth's fragile ecosystems and donations to conservation organizations increase by 6% that month. It might kill a few fish, but it is good for &nbsp;the world, say one party goer.</p><p>
British Petroleum promises an even LARGER event next year. Or perhaps a weekly event... that way fewer people will converge on the site at one time.</p><p>
Executive urge people to please remove their trash at the end of the event and recycle all glass and plastic bottles.</p>
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				<p><strong>And next...</strong></p><p>British Petroleum creates "Performance Art Beach"!!!</p><p>
Tens of thousands of people celebrate as refineries dump thousands of tons of toxic waste into Lake Michigan! It is said to be a commentary on modern civilization's destruction of nature.</p><p>
They assure environmentalists that the toxic waste is, well, waste. So it is okay to just dump it. They'll plant some trees in Africa to compensate for some of the environmental damge, but point out that Lake Michigan is not really a natural environment anymore.</p><p>
Environmentalists go wild, dancing nude next to the glowing water. Covered live over the internet, the dumping of toxic waste generates awareness of the Earth's fragile ecosystems and donations to conservation organizations increase by 6% that month. It might kill a few fish, but it is good for &nbsp;the world, say one party goer.</p><p>
British Petroleum promises an even LARGER event next year. Or perhaps a weekly event... that way fewer people will converge on the site at one time.</p><p>
Executive urge people to please remove their trash at the end of the event and recycle all glass and plastic bottles.</p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by AZTommyB</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/burningman/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 06 Aug 2007 05:21:33 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/burningman/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>Further more...<p>Angry Environmentalists Protest!<p>
27 angry, carrot wielding environmentalists have chained themselves to the Burning Man perimeter trash fence in protest of the 2007 "green" event.<p>
Wiscidea, &nbsp;founder and leader of the militant group, Twisted Knickers for the Extinction of Humankind, kindly took time out of pelting passers by with organically grown produce to answer a few questions.<p>
Q: Wiscidea, It seems that a gathering of people from all corners of the globe for the purpose of global change and sustainability, among other topics, would be just the type of catalyst that's needed to make big changes in a quickly deteriorating environment. Why are you protesting?<p>
A: Well, Jim, in the process of showcasing new technologies for sustainable energy, and educating revelers about being green, these people are USING fossil fuels, eating MEAT, and wasting precious resources such as recycled materials and scrap metal on ART! This is completely unacceptable.<p>
Q:Hmm...OK. So do you think that groups that have arisen from this festival like Burners Without Borders (<a href="http://www.burnerswithoutborders.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.burnerswithoutborders.org/), who help build homes with recycled materials for those in New Orleans, are not a sustainable and far reaching result of this "waste of fuel"?<p>
A: Many thousands of gallons of fuel are used as a result of this un-responsible, despicable, and unclean event. That's not worth the relief given to those families.<p>
Q: Ahh...So then, do not all of the people attending this event burn fossil fuels, turn on lights, use their computers, and generally use more energy than they produce every day at home? Wouldn't they be most likely using an equivalent amount of energy living their daily lives during this same week, if they weren't here?<p>
A: Well...that doesn't count. They aren't naked and/or partying and happy at home. <p>
Q: I see. So do you think the burning art at the festival holds a candle (in terms of carbon output) to the thousand plus forest fires that burn each year during the dry seasons in the South West, as a result of over zealous fire suppression techniques that have been used for the last 50 years?<p>
A: Those are God's fault.<p>
Interesting. Well thanks for your time (dodging an organic tomato). Have fun being chained to your fence.</p></p></p></p></p></p></a></p></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Further more...<p>Angry Environmentalists Protest!<p>
27 angry, carrot wielding environmentalists have chained themselves to the Burning Man perimeter trash fence in protest of the 2007 "green" event.<p>
Wiscidea, &nbsp;founder and leader of the militant group, Twisted Knickers for the Extinction of Humankind, kindly took time out of pelting passers by with organically grown produce to answer a few questions.<p>
Q: Wiscidea, It seems that a gathering of people from all corners of the globe for the purpose of global change and sustainability, among other topics, would be just the type of catalyst that's needed to make big changes in a quickly deteriorating environment. Why are you protesting?<p>
A: Well, Jim, in the process of showcasing new technologies for sustainable energy, and educating revelers about being green, these people are USING fossil fuels, eating MEAT, and wasting precious resources such as recycled materials and scrap metal on ART! This is completely unacceptable.<p>
Q:Hmm...OK. So do you think that groups that have arisen from this festival like Burners Without Borders (<a href="http://www.burnerswithoutborders.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.burnerswithoutborders.org/), who help build homes with recycled materials for those in New Orleans, are not a sustainable and far reaching result of this "waste of fuel"?<p>
A: Many thousands of gallons of fuel are used as a result of this un-responsible, despicable, and unclean event. That's not worth the relief given to those families.<p>
Q: Ahh...So then, do not all of the people attending this event burn fossil fuels, turn on lights, use their computers, and generally use more energy than they produce every day at home? Wouldn't they be most likely using an equivalent amount of energy living their daily lives during this same week, if they weren't here?<p>
A: Well...that doesn't count. They aren't naked and/or partying and happy at home. <p>
Q: I see. So do you think the burning art at the festival holds a candle (in terms of carbon output) to the thousand plus forest fires that burn each year during the dry seasons in the South West, as a result of over zealous fire suppression techniques that have been used for the last 50 years?<p>
A: Those are God's fault.<p>
Interesting. Well thanks for your time (dodging an organic tomato). Have fun being chained to your fence.</p></p></p></p></p></p></a></p></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by wiscidea</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/burningman/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 06 Aug 2007 08:06:16 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/burningman/5</guid>
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				<p><strong>hee hee hee</strong></p><p>Good one AZTommyB!!!</p><p>
I'm just saying... seems a bit hypocritical justifying the burning of vast quantities of wood and trampling a desert by the suggestion that it will raise awareness of environmental and social justice issues.</p><p>
How's this different from BP saying they have to pollute in order to ensure there are jobs for people? OR GW saying its okay to kill people to bring democracy to a country?</p><p>
I thought "environmentalists" were generally looking for ways to reduced frivilous CO2 emissions. I did not realize that is was okay for them to pollute, but not okay for others who might be able to justify their decision to emit CO2.</p><p>
I'm looking for a consistent message... otherwise, no one will take a person serious when they do criticize polluters.</p><p>
By then way... I enjoyed your description of me, since I'm not an environmentalist, not a vegetarian, do not approve of militant behavior, would never chain myself to a fence for any cause, enjoy my commuting lifestyle, support the use of GMOs, and do not believe there is a God according to the common definition of God.</p><p>
One thing I do believe in is NOT condemning people for engaging in behavior one seems willing to engage in themselves... like complaining about coal plants emitting CO2 while you set fire to an enormous pile of wood. It really is, in my opinion, absurd.</p><p>
It is nice that the Burning Man people are motivated to do great things, but why so much destruction first? Why not just get together to do great things?</p><p>
Consistency. Consistency. Consistency.</p>
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				<p><strong>hee hee hee</strong></p><p>Good one AZTommyB!!!</p><p>
I'm just saying... seems a bit hypocritical justifying the burning of vast quantities of wood and trampling a desert by the suggestion that it will raise awareness of environmental and social justice issues.</p><p>
How's this different from BP saying they have to pollute in order to ensure there are jobs for people? OR GW saying its okay to kill people to bring democracy to a country?</p><p>
I thought "environmentalists" were generally looking for ways to reduced frivilous CO2 emissions. I did not realize that is was okay for them to pollute, but not okay for others who might be able to justify their decision to emit CO2.</p><p>
I'm looking for a consistent message... otherwise, no one will take a person serious when they do criticize polluters.</p><p>
By then way... I enjoyed your description of me, since I'm not an environmentalist, not a vegetarian, do not approve of militant behavior, would never chain myself to a fence for any cause, enjoy my commuting lifestyle, support the use of GMOs, and do not believe there is a God according to the common definition of God.</p><p>
One thing I do believe in is NOT condemning people for engaging in behavior one seems willing to engage in themselves... like complaining about coal plants emitting CO2 while you set fire to an enormous pile of wood. It really is, in my opinion, absurd.</p><p>
It is nice that the Burning Man people are motivated to do great things, but why so much destruction first? Why not just get together to do great things?</p><p>
Consistency. Consistency. Consistency.</p>
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            <title>Comment #6 by interguru</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/burningman/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 06 Aug 2007 08:27:22 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/burningman/6</guid>
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				<p><strong>Forget the Green at the festival site</strong></p><p>The overwhelming environmental cost of the festival is people driving there and back. Any greening of the festival itself is a drop in the bucket compared to the transportation carbon costs. &nbsp;Just for one number, a gallon of gasoline produces 19 lbs of CO2</p><p>
Short of canceling the festival and celebrating it online, the organizers should charter buses from nearby cities, and urge attendees to pay for and use these buses. Or at least organize car pools.</p>
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				<p><strong>Forget the Green at the festival site</strong></p><p>The overwhelming environmental cost of the festival is people driving there and back. Any greening of the festival itself is a drop in the bucket compared to the transportation carbon costs. &nbsp;Just for one number, a gallon of gasoline produces 19 lbs of CO2</p><p>
Short of canceling the festival and celebrating it online, the organizers should charter buses from nearby cities, and urge attendees to pay for and use these buses. Or at least organize car pools.</p>
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            <title>Comment #7 by AZTommyB</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/burningman/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 06 Aug 2007 14:58:33 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/burningman/7</guid>
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				<p><strong>in the spirit of one-upmanship</strong></p><p>Glad to see a good sport. Thanks!</p><p>
This festival, by nature, is about people and personable freedom. This year, this person-centric festival is shifting it's focus and energy toward natural responsibilities. As such, I'm so glad that all of these folks are turning their efforts, considerable talents, and amazing wealth of problem solving abilities toward the environmental problems that we as a modern society now face. </p><p>
Is this festival, in and of itself &nbsp;saving our environment? No...not even close. It is, however, &nbsp;creating an attitude of awareness. It's placing a stage in front of many sharp and focused individuals, and it's saying...Show off! How would you fix the problems? What can you do? </p><p>
Where else do normal people the world over have an opportunity (excuse?) to show their useful ideas of responsible living to so many? They really aren't complaining...they're working on solutions!</p><p>
I'm excited that there's a venue that will allow unbridled ingenuity to be displayed without mountains of paperwork, lengthy approval processes, and stifling pessimism. </p><p>
For every worthwhile thing, there is a cost. This is money, time and environmental resources well spent.</p><p>
oh yeah....and it's way fun :)</p>
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				<p><strong>in the spirit of one-upmanship</strong></p><p>Glad to see a good sport. Thanks!</p><p>
This festival, by nature, is about people and personable freedom. This year, this person-centric festival is shifting it's focus and energy toward natural responsibilities. As such, I'm so glad that all of these folks are turning their efforts, considerable talents, and amazing wealth of problem solving abilities toward the environmental problems that we as a modern society now face. </p><p>
Is this festival, in and of itself &nbsp;saving our environment? No...not even close. It is, however, &nbsp;creating an attitude of awareness. It's placing a stage in front of many sharp and focused individuals, and it's saying...Show off! How would you fix the problems? What can you do? </p><p>
Where else do normal people the world over have an opportunity (excuse?) to show their useful ideas of responsible living to so many? They really aren't complaining...they're working on solutions!</p><p>
I'm excited that there's a venue that will allow unbridled ingenuity to be displayed without mountains of paperwork, lengthy approval processes, and stifling pessimism. </p><p>
For every worthwhile thing, there is a cost. This is money, time and environmental resources well spent.</p><p>
oh yeah....and it's way fun :)</p>
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            <title>Comment #8 by wiscidea</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/burningman/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 06 Aug 2007 15:51:26 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/burningman/8</guid>
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				<p><strong>Hmmm....</strong></p><p>Perhaps someone can get David Roberts to blog live from the next Burning Man festival. Now that would be a fine site to see. I would wade through a bazillion pop-up ads to read his inspired prose describing the dawn of a new culture.</p>
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				<p><strong>Hmmm....</strong></p><p>Perhaps someone can get David Roberts to blog live from the next Burning Man festival. Now that would be a fine site to see. I would wade through a bazillion pop-up ads to read his inspired prose describing the dawn of a new culture.</p>
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            <title>Comment #9 by Delay And Deny</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/burningman/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 06 Aug 2007 17:28:48 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/burningman/9</guid>
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				<p><strong>What would happen if humans vanished?<p>Great feed on fora.tv:<p>
"What would happen if humans vanished? Weisman has created a view of our planet as it would be if we suddenly disappeared. What damage has been done? What part of humankind's creativity would survive? How would Earth's other species fare? <p>
To find an answer, Weisman interviewed scientists from various fields."<p>
Click to View Program<br>
&nbsp;<a href="http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=qpgvadcab.0.9kcqddcab.dyrel7bab.836&amp;ts=S0266&amp;p=http%3A%2F%2Ffora.tv%2Ffora%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D1413" rel="nofollow">http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=qpgvadcab.0.9kcqddcab.dyrel7bab.8 ...</a></br></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>What would happen if humans vanished?<p>Great feed on fora.tv:<p>
"What would happen if humans vanished? Weisman has created a view of our planet as it would be if we suddenly disappeared. What damage has been done? What part of humankind's creativity would survive? How would Earth's other species fare? <p>
To find an answer, Weisman interviewed scientists from various fields."<p>
Click to View Program<br>
&nbsp;<a href="http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=qpgvadcab.0.9kcqddcab.dyrel7bab.836&amp;ts=S0266&amp;p=http%3A%2F%2Ffora.tv%2Ffora%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D1413" rel="nofollow">http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=qpgvadcab.0.9kcqddcab.dyrel7bab.8 ...</a></br></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #10 by brendabrn</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/burningman/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 17 Aug 2007 03:09:29 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/burningman/10</guid>
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				<p><strong>burning, man</strong></p><p>As someone who's lived w/the BM festival since 1987 I believe I can say it really has done an outstanding job of minimizing its impact on the Black Rock desert, &amp; is a really terrific venue for opening minds, bodies &amp; souls to the desert, dessert, &amp; desire of people to interact more personally w/their environment. &nbsp;Anyone who can spend a day or 2 (to say nothing of a week!) on the playa with the sun, dust, wind, night chill &amp; day heat without murder, theft, or cruelty in a population that now numbers 30K+ is transformed to some extent. &nbsp;The festival itself has years of demonstrated 'leave-no-trace': check out the local newspapers, folks, in conservative northern NV... There is much to be said for anything that enhances humans' closeness to nature, &amp; the Burning Man festival brings out a lot of good in a lot of people. &nbsp;&amp; it can all lead to greater empathy w/the world, &amp; less destruction... Humans are a natural part of the environment, too, &amp; so is their interaction: why not celebrate such a positive one?</p>
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				<p><strong>burning, man</strong></p><p>As someone who's lived w/the BM festival since 1987 I believe I can say it really has done an outstanding job of minimizing its impact on the Black Rock desert, &amp; is a really terrific venue for opening minds, bodies &amp; souls to the desert, dessert, &amp; desire of people to interact more personally w/their environment. &nbsp;Anyone who can spend a day or 2 (to say nothing of a week!) on the playa with the sun, dust, wind, night chill &amp; day heat without murder, theft, or cruelty in a population that now numbers 30K+ is transformed to some extent. &nbsp;The festival itself has years of demonstrated 'leave-no-trace': check out the local newspapers, folks, in conservative northern NV... There is much to be said for anything that enhances humans' closeness to nature, &amp; the Burning Man festival brings out a lot of good in a lot of people. &nbsp;&amp; it can all lead to greater empathy w/the world, &amp; less destruction... Humans are a natural part of the environment, too, &amp; so is their interaction: why not celebrate such a positive one?</p>
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            <title>Comment #11 by wildeman</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/burningman/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 21 Aug 2007 07:04:32 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/burningman/11</guid>
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				<p><strong>a celebration of...</strong></p><p>I checked out the link to Wikipedia's 'desert varnish' and learned that it actually grows on rocks! &nbsp;Any burner can tell you that there are no rocks on the playa. &nbsp;It's an ancient lakebed in which nothing (not even hardy desert plants) grows due to the high-alkaline dust. &nbsp;Sure, BM can be more environmentally friendly, but I challenge anyone to find a festival of this size anywhere that does as little harm to the environment. &nbsp;As pointed out by other writers, consciousness is being raised at BM, not only on environmental issues but a whole host of social issues. &nbsp;I particular like gift economy as an alternative to capitalism, in which a community based on caring and sharing is fostered. &nbsp;In balance, Burning Man is good for the planet!</p>
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				<p><strong>a celebration of...</strong></p><p>I checked out the link to Wikipedia's 'desert varnish' and learned that it actually grows on rocks! &nbsp;Any burner can tell you that there are no rocks on the playa. &nbsp;It's an ancient lakebed in which nothing (not even hardy desert plants) grows due to the high-alkaline dust. &nbsp;Sure, BM can be more environmentally friendly, but I challenge anyone to find a festival of this size anywhere that does as little harm to the environment. &nbsp;As pointed out by other writers, consciousness is being raised at BM, not only on environmental issues but a whole host of social issues. &nbsp;I particular like gift economy as an alternative to capitalism, in which a community based on caring and sharing is fostered. &nbsp;In balance, Burning Man is good for the planet!</p>
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