<![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Arch Coal gets the go ahead for record-size strip mining permit]]> Grist Comment Feed en Comment #1 by amazingdrx http://www.grist.org/article/buried-in-logan-county-wv/ Wed, 31 Jan 2007 15:17:20 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/buried-in-logan-county-wv/1 Military intelligence

What does this have to do with the military?

Get the army out of natural resource policy and environmental decison making.  

Is there a more corrupt function of government than military contracting?  Doubtful, given the outright fraud that is the war on Iraq.

How easy is it for coal industry lobbyists to bribe these military minds?  With cheney head lobbyist working from the inside.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

]]> Military intelligence

What does this have to do with the military?

Get the army out of natural resource policy and environmental decison making.  

Is there a more corrupt function of government than military contracting?  Doubtful, given the outright fraud that is the war on Iraq.

How easy is it for coal industry lobbyists to bribe these military minds?  With cheney head lobbyist working from the inside.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

]]> Comment #2 by bryankwalton http://www.grist.org/article/buried-in-logan-county-wv/ Wed, 31 Jan 2007 23:28:49 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/buried-in-logan-county-wv/2 We are all responsible for this

The economic and political leaders of our country have all jumped on board the "coal train".  After all, its an issue of national security, right?  We, as environmentalists, spend a lot time fighting the coal lobby and pushing for renewables.  That is good and we should be continuing to do so.  Furthermore, we need good lawyers like the folks at WildLaw ready to pounce on these kinds of deals.  But finally, we must remember that the energy brokers in this country will sell only what sells.  Most energy companies now days offer some type of "green" energy option for their customers.  When we don't purchase those options, we share the guilt for mountain-top removal mining.

]]> We are all responsible for this

The economic and political leaders of our country have all jumped on board the "coal train".  After all, its an issue of national security, right?  We, as environmentalists, spend a lot time fighting the coal lobby and pushing for renewables.  That is good and we should be continuing to do so.  Furthermore, we need good lawyers like the folks at WildLaw ready to pounce on these kinds of deals.  But finally, we must remember that the energy brokers in this country will sell only what sells.  Most energy companies now days offer some type of "green" energy option for their customers.  When we don't purchase those options, we share the guilt for mountain-top removal mining.

]]> Comment #3 by amazingdrx http://www.grist.org/article/buried-in-logan-county-wv/ Thu, 01 Feb 2007 00:06:35 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/buried-in-logan-county-wv/3 Conversion

Conversion of coal reserves to natural gas, underground, is a lot more efficient and much cleaner process to use all fossil fuels, oil included.

Maybe that is a way to bend the coal impulse in a cleaner direction?  Natural gas used in fuel cell/turbines with the CO2 sequested by algae solar collector systems that produce biodeisel for transportation fuel and cellulose that can be used in the fuel cell.

The fuel cells also use biogas from waste.  

Maybe calls for conversion of coal to natural gas would start this whole shift to renewables moving?  It looks like "clean" coal and fuel farming will win out in terms of slopping at the government subsidy trough otherwise.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

]]> Conversion

Conversion of coal reserves to natural gas, underground, is a lot more efficient and much cleaner process to use all fossil fuels, oil included.

Maybe that is a way to bend the coal impulse in a cleaner direction?  Natural gas used in fuel cell/turbines with the CO2 sequested by algae solar collector systems that produce biodeisel for transportation fuel and cellulose that can be used in the fuel cell.

The fuel cells also use biogas from waste.  

Maybe calls for conversion of coal to natural gas would start this whole shift to renewables moving?  It looks like "clean" coal and fuel farming will win out in terms of slopping at the government subsidy trough otherwise.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

]]> Comment #4 by sunflower http://www.grist.org/article/buried-in-logan-county-wv/ Thu, 01 Feb 2007 01:19:21 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/buried-in-logan-county-wv/4 Clean green coal

I saw your algae solar collectors last night on tv cleaning CO2 from a coal power plant.  It makes coal look green.  I know nothing about this process.  

I wonder about efficiency and scale.  I've heard that plants are 2% efficient.  And the solar energy solar converting CO2 would exceed the energy of the coal burned (less Hydrogen).  Yowza! Paper & calculator...

1 GW(e) = 3 GW(t) coal = 26,000 GWh/year = 275 square miles of 2% efficient algae solar collectors per coal power plant in sunny climates. ($77 bn?)

]]> Clean green coal

I saw your algae solar collectors last night on tv cleaning CO2 from a coal power plant.  It makes coal look green.  I know nothing about this process.  

I wonder about efficiency and scale.  I've heard that plants are 2% efficient.  And the solar energy solar converting CO2 would exceed the energy of the coal burned (less Hydrogen).  Yowza! Paper & calculator...

1 GW(e) = 3 GW(t) coal = 26,000 GWh/year = 275 square miles of 2% efficient algae solar collectors per coal power plant in sunny climates. ($77 bn?)

]]> Comment #5 by Tom Philpott http://www.grist.org/article/buried-in-logan-county-wv/ Thu, 01 Feb 2007 01:32:53 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/buried-in-logan-county-wv/5 "Clean green coal"

Hey Sunflower and Amazing,
Think algae solar collectors are going to solve the problems discussed in this post -- "a 'dredge-and-fill' permit [that] allows Arch's Spruce No. 1 Mine to bury nearly seven miles of streams and is the largest permit ever issued in the history of mountaintop-removal mining in West Virginia"?

I can't think of any technology that can make the mountaintop-removal process remotely "renewable."

Victual Reality


]]> "Clean green coal"

Hey Sunflower and Amazing,
Think algae solar collectors are going to solve the problems discussed in this post -- "a 'dredge-and-fill' permit [that] allows Arch's Spruce No. 1 Mine to bury nearly seven miles of streams and is the largest permit ever issued in the history of mountaintop-removal mining in West Virginia"?

I can't think of any technology that can make the mountaintop-removal process remotely "renewable."

Victual Reality


]]> Comment #6 by sunflower http://www.grist.org/article/buried-in-logan-county-wv/ Thu, 01 Feb 2007 01:47:16 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/buried-in-logan-county-wv/6 Tilting at coal power

Solar carbon sequestration is too expensive.   Mountain tops - priceless.  Shut down coal.  The markets will fill the void.

Coal is the enemy of the human race

]]> Tilting at coal power

Solar carbon sequestration is too expensive.   Mountain tops - priceless.  Shut down coal.  The markets will fill the void.

Coal is the enemy of the human race

]]> Comment #7 by jory cunningham http://www.grist.org/article/buried-in-logan-county-wv/ Thu, 01 Feb 2007 05:42:03 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/buried-in-logan-county-wv/7 Stop Mountaintop Removal

Thank you for covering this important issue!

Earthjustice has been fighting hard, challenging permits in federal court for four mines that would dump millions of tons of rock and debris into nearby streams and valleys, burying them forever. These permits were issued by the Army Corps of Engineers without the required environmental studies and impact statements. We have been working with many local environmental groups fed up with flooded properties, blown up mountains, poisoned drinking wells and much more.

If you are interested you can find out more on our Stop Mountaintop Removal campaign website:
www.stopmountaintopremoval.org

Jory Cunningham
Earthjustice
www.earthjustice.org




]]> Stop Mountaintop Removal

Thank you for covering this important issue!

Earthjustice has been fighting hard, challenging permits in federal court for four mines that would dump millions of tons of rock and debris into nearby streams and valleys, burying them forever. These permits were issued by the Army Corps of Engineers without the required environmental studies and impact statements. We have been working with many local environmental groups fed up with flooded properties, blown up mountains, poisoned drinking wells and much more.

If you are interested you can find out more on our Stop Mountaintop Removal campaign website:
www.stopmountaintopremoval.org

Jory Cunningham
Earthjustice
www.earthjustice.org




]]> Comment #8 by Nucbuddy http://www.grist.org/article/buried-in-logan-county-wv/ Thu, 01 Feb 2007 11:43:25 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/buried-in-logan-county-wv/8 Dirt-cheap infinite-value external commodities

Sunflower wrote:
Mountain tops - priceless.

Then why are mining-rights sold for less than infinite cost?


]]> Dirt-cheap infinite-value external commodities

Sunflower wrote:
Mountain tops - priceless.

Then why are mining-rights sold for less than infinite cost?


]]> Comment #9 by amazingdrx http://www.grist.org/article/buried-in-logan-county-wv/ Sat, 03 Feb 2007 03:55:38 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/buried-in-logan-county-wv/9 Only one

Only one Tom.  The alternative that leaves the ground over the coal undisturbed.  Underground mining?  Nope.

Conversion of coal to natural gas underground using natural bacteria.  Then feeding the CO2 from using the natural gas in fuel cells to algae in solar collectors.

Wouldn't you rather have NRDC and other environmental groups and the democratic party support this alternative over "clean" coal power plants or coal to liquid fuel or nuclear power or fuel farming?  100s of years worth of natural gas from coal are right under our own territory.  This would destroy the status quo POV on energy.

We are coming down to the '08 wire with zero political traction for anything but "clean" coal, fuel farming, and nuclear power.  If Hillary is elected on that platform, forget any change in the path to global climate disaster.

Algae in solar collectors maybe 1000 times more productive than fuel farming sunflower, and will only need space on rooftops and over parking lots to make 10% of the liquid fuel we now use.  But that ought to be enough if a shift to serial plugin hybrid drivetrains is acomplished.  It seems to be starting.

Oil will also last a lot longer if demand is reduced by 90%.  Even our own domestic supplies ought to be enough until the complete transition to renewable fuel occurs.  Biogas should be able to replace natural gas eventually too, as solar collector algae systems produce cellulose to substitue for biogas in fuel cells.  

This will provide clean, renewable backup power for wind, water, and solar power, which should eventually provide most of our power needs.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

]]> Only one

Only one Tom.  The alternative that leaves the ground over the coal undisturbed.  Underground mining?  Nope.

Conversion of coal to natural gas underground using natural bacteria.  Then feeding the CO2 from using the natural gas in fuel cells to algae in solar collectors.

Wouldn't you rather have NRDC and other environmental groups and the democratic party support this alternative over "clean" coal power plants or coal to liquid fuel or nuclear power or fuel farming?  100s of years worth of natural gas from coal are right under our own territory.  This would destroy the status quo POV on energy.

We are coming down to the '08 wire with zero political traction for anything but "clean" coal, fuel farming, and nuclear power.  If Hillary is elected on that platform, forget any change in the path to global climate disaster.

Algae in solar collectors maybe 1000 times more productive than fuel farming sunflower, and will only need space on rooftops and over parking lots to make 10% of the liquid fuel we now use.  But that ought to be enough if a shift to serial plugin hybrid drivetrains is acomplished.  It seems to be starting.

Oil will also last a lot longer if demand is reduced by 90%.  Even our own domestic supplies ought to be enough until the complete transition to renewable fuel occurs.  Biogas should be able to replace natural gas eventually too, as solar collector algae systems produce cellulose to substitue for biogas in fuel cells.  

This will provide clean, renewable backup power for wind, water, and solar power, which should eventually provide most of our power needs.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

]]>