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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Alan Durning on whether biking is for children and for losers]]></title>
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            <title>Comment #1 by odograph</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/bicycle-shame/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2007 04:29:45 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/bicycle-shame/1</guid>
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				<p><strong>league<p>An easy way to assist is to grab a membership at <a href="http://www.bikeleague.org/" rel="nofollow">The League of American Bicyclists. &nbsp;I get a kick out of it being founded in 1880 ... and the <a href="http://www.bikeleague.org/join/benefitsofmembership.php" rel="nofollow">bundled magazines aren't bad.</a></a></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>league<p>An easy way to assist is to grab a membership at <a href="http://www.bikeleague.org/" rel="nofollow">The League of American Bicyclists. &nbsp;I get a kick out of it being founded in 1880 ... and the <a href="http://www.bikeleague.org/join/benefitsofmembership.php" rel="nofollow">bundled magazines aren't bad.</a></a></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by Jon Rynn</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/bicycle-shame/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2007 04:42:39 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/bicycle-shame/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>Car zombies is more like it....<p>...the society is completely and totally focused on cars, it's not possible to not have a car, fer chrissake! &nbsp;Even though 80 years ago very few people had a car. &nbsp;The 40,000 people plus that get killed every year in the U.S. alone (I've seen figures on the order of 2 million worldwide) are considered "acts of god", nothing we can do about it! &nbsp;Mass transit has 1% of the fatalities.<p>
When we lived in Montclair, NJ, I briefly looked into <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tricycle" rel="nofollow">an adult tricycle; I would think there should be interest in tricycles and pedicabs that have an electrical assist, as they are easier to drive, and you can more easily put bags and/or children in them. &nbsp;They should be the perfect complement to a walkable neighborhood. &nbsp;However, they would need their own lane, because they would go to slow for the car zombies. &nbsp;That's one reason I never tried one.</a></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Car zombies is more like it....<p>...the society is completely and totally focused on cars, it's not possible to not have a car, fer chrissake! &nbsp;Even though 80 years ago very few people had a car. &nbsp;The 40,000 people plus that get killed every year in the U.S. alone (I've seen figures on the order of 2 million worldwide) are considered "acts of god", nothing we can do about it! &nbsp;Mass transit has 1% of the fatalities.<p>
When we lived in Montclair, NJ, I briefly looked into <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tricycle" rel="nofollow">an adult tricycle; I would think there should be interest in tricycles and pedicabs that have an electrical assist, as they are easier to drive, and you can more easily put bags and/or children in them. &nbsp;They should be the perfect complement to a walkable neighborhood. &nbsp;However, they would need their own lane, because they would go to slow for the car zombies. &nbsp;That's one reason I never tried one.</a></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by Delay And Deny</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/bicycle-shame/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2007 05:24:53 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/bicycle-shame/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>A Force For Change<p><br>
More than "Green", "Bike" can be a force for change. &nbsp;I was recently appointed by Mayor Cooke of Kent, WA to the Bicycle Advisory Board.<p>
When you look at the issues facing bicycles, they affect all aspects of the community and people living in them.<p>
I encourage bicycle riders everywhere to not be the typical miscreants, cursing at cars, but to "join the system" and start working to shape a bicycle culture in and around their neighborhoods.<p>
For example, while I was manning the Republican booth at Kent Cornucopia Days, I spoke with an avid bicyclist who told me about Critical Mass in Seattle:<p>
<a href="http://www.seattlecriticalmass.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.seattlecriticalmass.org/

<p>John Bailo<br>
<a href="http://supratext.texeme.com" rel="nofollow">Supratext:</a></br></p></a></p></p></p></p></br></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>A Force For Change<p><br>
More than "Green", "Bike" can be a force for change. &nbsp;I was recently appointed by Mayor Cooke of Kent, WA to the Bicycle Advisory Board.<p>
When you look at the issues facing bicycles, they affect all aspects of the community and people living in them.<p>
I encourage bicycle riders everywhere to not be the typical miscreants, cursing at cars, but to "join the system" and start working to shape a bicycle culture in and around their neighborhoods.<p>
For example, while I was manning the Republican booth at Kent Cornucopia Days, I spoke with an avid bicyclist who told me about Critical Mass in Seattle:<p>
<a href="http://www.seattlecriticalmass.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.seattlecriticalmass.org/

<p>John Bailo<br>
<a href="http://supratext.texeme.com" rel="nofollow">Supratext:</a></br></p></a></p></p></p></p></br></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by amc89</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/bicycle-shame/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2007 05:51:49 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/bicycle-shame/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>Even if I didn't care about the earth...</strong></p><p>...I'd probably still bike just to save money. </p>
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				<p><strong>Even if I didn't care about the earth...</strong></p><p>...I'd probably still bike just to save money. </p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by Icelander</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/bicycle-shame/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2007 05:57:18 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/bicycle-shame/5</guid>
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				<p><strong>Sweat</strong></p><p>I'm just wondering what all you bike owners do about sweat. I sweat like a freak. If my house is 72 degrees I can work up a sweat doing housework. I shovel snow in jeans and a t-shirt.</p><p>
Combine my freakish sweating with the 70-degree-plus dewpoints in the summer and any trip on a bike of any distance would require a shower afterwards.</p><p>
So what do you bicyclists do to keep from looking like you just came from the gym when you arrive anywhere?</p>
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				<p><strong>Sweat</strong></p><p>I'm just wondering what all you bike owners do about sweat. I sweat like a freak. If my house is 72 degrees I can work up a sweat doing housework. I shovel snow in jeans and a t-shirt.</p><p>
Combine my freakish sweating with the 70-degree-plus dewpoints in the summer and any trip on a bike of any distance would require a shower afterwards.</p><p>
So what do you bicyclists do to keep from looking like you just came from the gym when you arrive anywhere?</p>
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            <title>Comment #6 by odograph</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/bicycle-shame/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2007 06:07:46 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/bicycle-shame/6</guid>
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				<p><strong>utility</strong></p><p>My "utility" bike trips are usually pretty short. &nbsp;Longer summertime trips are easier when they have an outdoor destination ;-)</p>
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				<p><strong>utility</strong></p><p>My "utility" bike trips are usually pretty short. &nbsp;Longer summertime trips are easier when they have an outdoor destination ;-)</p>
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            <title>Comment #7 by Sport Lily</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/bicycle-shame/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2007 06:21:13 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/bicycle-shame/7</guid>
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				<p><strong>What to do about sweat</strong></p><p>I can really work up a sweat, too, but here's a few things I've done (my commute to work is about 25 minutes one-way):</p><p>


Maybe this is obvious, but take fresh clothes to change into at work. &nbsp;Yes, it can feel strange to change in the bathroom stall, but in a culture that already deems you slightly odd for biking to work, why worry about that?</p><p>
Invest in pannier-style bags so you aren't carrying a heavy backpack that makes you sweat even more.</p><p>
Shower before you go - a clean body doesn't smell once you get out of your sweaty clothes! &nbsp;And take deodorant with you, too.</p><p>
Baby wipes for the sweatiest areas... need I say more?</p><p>


I live in Arizona, and while there are days in the summer when I just can't bring myself to commute by bike, nine months out of the year it's wonderful... so I say start by trying it when the weather's comfy, and see how it goes. &nbsp;Once you get used to it, you'll never want to drive again, no matter how much you're sweating. &nbsp;</p>
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				<p><strong>What to do about sweat</strong></p><p>I can really work up a sweat, too, but here's a few things I've done (my commute to work is about 25 minutes one-way):</p><p>


Maybe this is obvious, but take fresh clothes to change into at work. &nbsp;Yes, it can feel strange to change in the bathroom stall, but in a culture that already deems you slightly odd for biking to work, why worry about that?</p><p>
Invest in pannier-style bags so you aren't carrying a heavy backpack that makes you sweat even more.</p><p>
Shower before you go - a clean body doesn't smell once you get out of your sweaty clothes! &nbsp;And take deodorant with you, too.</p><p>
Baby wipes for the sweatiest areas... need I say more?</p><p>


I live in Arizona, and while there are days in the summer when I just can't bring myself to commute by bike, nine months out of the year it's wonderful... so I say start by trying it when the weather's comfy, and see how it goes. &nbsp;Once you get used to it, you'll never want to drive again, no matter how much you're sweating. &nbsp;</p>
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            <title>Comment #8 by Icelander</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/bicycle-shame/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2007 06:29:54 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/bicycle-shame/8</guid>
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				<p><strong>Clarification</strong></p><p>There's a shower at work, so bringing in my clothes to change into isn't a problem. (Waking up earlier is different issue...)</p><p>
I'm more concerned about riding the few miles to the local megamart. I don't think they'd appreciate me huffing and puffing into the bathroom to change and wipe myself down.</p><p>
I have bought a vehicle that gets 80mpg and takes up less space on the road, however. So it's not like I'm not doing anything.</p>
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				<p><strong>Clarification</strong></p><p>There's a shower at work, so bringing in my clothes to change into isn't a problem. (Waking up earlier is different issue...)</p><p>
I'm more concerned about riding the few miles to the local megamart. I don't think they'd appreciate me huffing and puffing into the bathroom to change and wipe myself down.</p><p>
I have bought a vehicle that gets 80mpg and takes up less space on the road, however. So it's not like I'm not doing anything.</p>
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            <title>Comment #9 by Sport Lily</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/bicycle-shame/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2007 06:42:23 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/bicycle-shame/9</guid>
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				<p><strong>Cool!</strong></p><p>A shower at work - even better! &nbsp;As far as errands, I don't know - I'm just sweaty. :)</p><p>
And of course if you have to drive, it sounds like you have the car to do it in. &nbsp;Practically, we all drive sometimes. &nbsp;(Unfortunately.) &nbsp;</p>
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				<p><strong>Cool!</strong></p><p>A shower at work - even better! &nbsp;As far as errands, I don't know - I'm just sweaty. :)</p><p>
And of course if you have to drive, it sounds like you have the car to do it in. &nbsp;Practically, we all drive sometimes. &nbsp;(Unfortunately.) &nbsp;</p>
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            <title>Comment #10 by Biodiversivist</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/bicycle-shame/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2007 06:58:09 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/bicycle-shame/10</guid>
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				<p><strong>Icelander<p>One no sweat solution would be <a href="http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2007/6/13/134640/851" rel="nofollow">hybrid electric. And if you want to get a good workout on your way home from work just leave the throttle alone. 

<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. <a href="http://www.poisondarts.net" rel="nofollow">Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world</a></p></a></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Icelander<p>One no sweat solution would be <a href="http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2007/6/13/134640/851" rel="nofollow">hybrid electric. And if you want to get a good workout on your way home from work just leave the throttle alone. 

<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. <a href="http://www.poisondarts.net" rel="nofollow">Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world</a></p></a></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #11 by Biodiversivist</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/bicycle-shame/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2007 07:16:54 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/bicycle-shame/11</guid>
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				<p><strong>Maybe not so hard to counteract.<p>"These cultural associations are damnably hard to counteract, because their roots are emotional, even sociological. They have to do with in-groups and out-groups, with status, prestige, and identity."<p>
...powerful, all consuming, subconscious human instincts. One way to get more people on bikes is to increase the status of bikers, make them cooler. Make those trapped in their two ton wheelchairs envy those who roll past them in the open air. A few well done ads might make a huge difference. A few bad ones, on the other hand might have the opposite effect.

<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. <a href="http://www.poisondarts.net" rel="nofollow">Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world</a></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Maybe not so hard to counteract.<p>"These cultural associations are damnably hard to counteract, because their roots are emotional, even sociological. They have to do with in-groups and out-groups, with status, prestige, and identity."<p>
...powerful, all consuming, subconscious human instincts. One way to get more people on bikes is to increase the status of bikers, make them cooler. Make those trapped in their two ton wheelchairs envy those who roll past them in the open air. A few well done ads might make a huge difference. A few bad ones, on the other hand might have the opposite effect.

<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. <a href="http://www.poisondarts.net" rel="nofollow">Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world</a></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #12 by Jon Rynn</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/bicycle-shame/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2007 09:51:31 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/bicycle-shame/12</guid>
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				<p><strong>re: two-ton wheelchairs:</strong></p><p>Heard in the movie "over the hedge", RJ the racoon (bruce willis) speaking, something like the following, (showing the other animals around suburbia):</p><p>
"And this is an SUV, this is for moving the humans. &nbsp;As time goes on, humans are losing their ability to walk"</p>
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				<p><strong>re: two-ton wheelchairs:</strong></p><p>Heard in the movie "over the hedge", RJ the racoon (bruce willis) speaking, something like the following, (showing the other animals around suburbia):</p><p>
"And this is an SUV, this is for moving the humans. &nbsp;As time goes on, humans are losing their ability to walk"</p>
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            <title>Comment #13 by JMG</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/bicycle-shame/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:53:03 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/bicycle-shame/13</guid>
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				<p><strong>D'oh</strong></p><p>If your goal is to sell a lot of insanely oversized, overpowered, overpriced vehicles to overworked and overstressed people, you can't do it on the merits --- you have to grab the emotions, and the "They're not like us" meme is one of the tried and true. &nbsp;So anyone who doesn't bow down to the automobile gets the "They're not like us" treatment.</p><p>
Advertising is the art of understanding human intelligence in order to overcome it. -- Lewis Mumford</p><p>
Virtually all that is left of the whole automobile industry is the advertising and marketing piece.

<p>Save the world:  Reduce greenhouse gas emissions 5% annually.</p></p>
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				<p><strong>D'oh</strong></p><p>If your goal is to sell a lot of insanely oversized, overpowered, overpriced vehicles to overworked and overstressed people, you can't do it on the merits --- you have to grab the emotions, and the "They're not like us" meme is one of the tried and true. &nbsp;So anyone who doesn't bow down to the automobile gets the "They're not like us" treatment.</p><p>
Advertising is the art of understanding human intelligence in order to overcome it. -- Lewis Mumford</p><p>
Virtually all that is left of the whole automobile industry is the advertising and marketing piece.

<p>Save the world:  Reduce greenhouse gas emissions 5% annually.</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #14 by Sam Wells</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/bicycle-shame/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2007 16:18:27 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/bicycle-shame/14</guid>
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				<p><strong>Life at 50 - Years not MPH</strong></p><p>I had to laugh because in my salad days, it was all about "insanely oversized, overpowered, overpriced" bicycles. &nbsp;Not cars. &nbsp;Man, we rode nekkid if we wanted and went fast as the devil, and never got caught by the cops. &nbsp;Austin Texas was pretty good except they have two hills that would about kill anybody. &nbsp;Yeah, I walked them too when it got over 100 degrees. &nbsp;That's why Lance Armstrong used to practice there. &nbsp;God that was fun. &nbsp;I even ran a small remodeling company from a crazy racing Motobecane. &nbsp;</p><p>
At the tender age of 50 it's not lightning fast anymore - more like the "duck paddle" that most everyone does. &nbsp;Lo-de-do, just cruising on a huge frame direct drive big bike with no brakes, the current fashion. &nbsp;Gotta have a dual clown horn to be authentic, and once in a while I'll sprint if I get a downhill pull and a tail wind push. &nbsp;I tend to tucker out about 23 MPH. &nbsp;No more going 40, dang.</p><p>
So many of the hybrid mountain bikes these days really suck for air. &nbsp;Come on folks, let's have some fun. &nbsp;You should see us down here in our Christmas Parade where we put a small generator in the basket and wrap about 15 Christmas light strings everywhere! &nbsp;Oops, is a puny little 2.5 HP gasoline fueled generator bad? &nbsp;OK, we'll work on that. &nbsp;But it is a sight to behold. &nbsp;I mean Amazing Walter even had a string of lights in his huge white beard!<br>
/sammie<br>


<p>Onward through the fog</p></br></br></p>
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				<p><strong>Life at 50 - Years not MPH</strong></p><p>I had to laugh because in my salad days, it was all about "insanely oversized, overpowered, overpriced" bicycles. &nbsp;Not cars. &nbsp;Man, we rode nekkid if we wanted and went fast as the devil, and never got caught by the cops. &nbsp;Austin Texas was pretty good except they have two hills that would about kill anybody. &nbsp;Yeah, I walked them too when it got over 100 degrees. &nbsp;That's why Lance Armstrong used to practice there. &nbsp;God that was fun. &nbsp;I even ran a small remodeling company from a crazy racing Motobecane. &nbsp;</p><p>
At the tender age of 50 it's not lightning fast anymore - more like the "duck paddle" that most everyone does. &nbsp;Lo-de-do, just cruising on a huge frame direct drive big bike with no brakes, the current fashion. &nbsp;Gotta have a dual clown horn to be authentic, and once in a while I'll sprint if I get a downhill pull and a tail wind push. &nbsp;I tend to tucker out about 23 MPH. &nbsp;No more going 40, dang.</p><p>
So many of the hybrid mountain bikes these days really suck for air. &nbsp;Come on folks, let's have some fun. &nbsp;You should see us down here in our Christmas Parade where we put a small generator in the basket and wrap about 15 Christmas light strings everywhere! &nbsp;Oops, is a puny little 2.5 HP gasoline fueled generator bad? &nbsp;OK, we'll work on that. &nbsp;But it is a sight to behold. &nbsp;I mean Amazing Walter even had a string of lights in his huge white beard!<br>
/sammie<br>


<p>Onward through the fog</p></br></br></p>
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            <title>Comment #15 by Green Granny</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/bicycle-shame/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2007 19:32:11 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/bicycle-shame/15</guid>
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				<p><strong>23MPH Sam -- I'm jealous</strong></p><p>I tend to tucker out at 20-21MPH on my pokey "granny mobile". &nbsp;14 to 15 MPH is my comfortable cruising speed, as long as the hills aren't too big. &nbsp;Get me on a long hill and I'm lucky to maintain over 5MPH. &nbsp;But as the young thing that passed me on the long hill a week or to ago said, "I've got 18 speeds, you don't."</p><p>
I don't have dual duck horns either. &nbsp;I just have an old-fashioned bell although I recently upgraded my headlight to an LED. . .<br>


<p>"We must be the change we wish to see in the world."  -- Mahatma Ghandi</p></br></p>
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				<p><strong>23MPH Sam -- I'm jealous</strong></p><p>I tend to tucker out at 20-21MPH on my pokey "granny mobile". &nbsp;14 to 15 MPH is my comfortable cruising speed, as long as the hills aren't too big. &nbsp;Get me on a long hill and I'm lucky to maintain over 5MPH. &nbsp;But as the young thing that passed me on the long hill a week or to ago said, "I've got 18 speeds, you don't."</p><p>
I don't have dual duck horns either. &nbsp;I just have an old-fashioned bell although I recently upgraded my headlight to an LED. . .<br>


<p>"We must be the change we wish to see in the world."  -- Mahatma Ghandi</p></br></p>
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            <title>Comment #16 by Ron Steenblik</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/bicycle-shame/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2007 22:39:15 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Horns and sweat<p>I bought an electric motion alarm meant for a motor-scooter for my bike when I discovered that it included also a rather strong horn. I find in city traffic -- at least in Paris, where pedestrians assert their right to jaywalk constantly -- I use the horn as much as my brakes. It sure helps cut down on the number of people who wander into my path. <p>
Regarding sweat, my brother has recently purchased <a href="http://ohgizmo.com/2005/11/14/ohgizmo-review-the-x-underwear-and-x-socks/" rel="nofollow">shirts and underwear that are impregnated with silver thread. While the silver doesn't stop him from sweating, it kills the bacteria that cause the sweat to stink.<p>
P.S., Great post, Alan.</p></a></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Horns and sweat<p>I bought an electric motion alarm meant for a motor-scooter for my bike when I discovered that it included also a rather strong horn. I find in city traffic -- at least in Paris, where pedestrians assert their right to jaywalk constantly -- I use the horn as much as my brakes. It sure helps cut down on the number of people who wander into my path. <p>
Regarding sweat, my brother has recently purchased <a href="http://ohgizmo.com/2005/11/14/ohgizmo-review-the-x-underwear-and-x-socks/" rel="nofollow">shirts and underwear that are impregnated with silver thread. While the silver doesn't stop him from sweating, it kills the bacteria that cause the sweat to stink.<p>
P.S., Great post, Alan.</p></a></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #17 by odograph</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/bicycle-shame/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2007 23:06:58 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>the everyday bicycle lifestyle<p>You might like this (long, well-linked) post, <a href="http://bicycledesign.blogspot.com/2007/07/you-dont-have-to-blood-dope-to-ride.html" rel="nofollow">You don't have to dope to ride this bike at the Bicycle Design blog.</a></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>the everyday bicycle lifestyle<p>You might like this (long, well-linked) post, <a href="http://bicycledesign.blogspot.com/2007/07/you-dont-have-to-blood-dope-to-ride.html" rel="nofollow">You don't have to dope to ride this bike at the Bicycle Design blog.</a></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #18 by Biodiversivist</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/bicycle-shame/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 00:43:35 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>I'm thinking of putting a scooter horn on my bike<p>as well, Ron. Nobody seems to hear the bell, especially the elderly, those wearing headsets or talking on cells. Pedestrians are king of the right of way pecking order and I always slow down or stop for them but sometimes it is handy to let them know you are coming with a friendly ding or toot, especially if they are jaywalking.

<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. <a href="http://www.poisondarts.net" rel="nofollow">Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world</a></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>I'm thinking of putting a scooter horn on my bike<p>as well, Ron. Nobody seems to hear the bell, especially the elderly, those wearing headsets or talking on cells. Pedestrians are king of the right of way pecking order and I always slow down or stop for them but sometimes it is handy to let them know you are coming with a friendly ding or toot, especially if they are jaywalking.

<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. <a href="http://www.poisondarts.net" rel="nofollow">Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world</a></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #19 by Biodiversivist</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/bicycle-shame/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 01:10:10 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/bicycle-shame/19</guid>
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				<p><strong>In response to this post, Odo<p><a href="http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2007/7/24/92030/7096/#comment32" rel="nofollow">http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2007/7/24/92030/7096/#co ...<p>
That is my bell. I'll tell you something else, it also doesn't ding when it is wet, a common occurrence here.

<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. <a href="http://www.poisondarts.net" rel="nofollow">Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world</a></p></p></a></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>In response to this post, Odo<p><a href="http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2007/7/24/92030/7096/#comment32" rel="nofollow">http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2007/7/24/92030/7096/#co ...<p>
That is my bell. I'll tell you something else, it also doesn't ding when it is wet, a common occurrence here.

<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. <a href="http://www.poisondarts.net" rel="nofollow">Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world</a></p></p></a></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #20 by Delay And Deny</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/bicycle-shame/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 03:02:54 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Git Out Da Way<p><br>
I had a similar problem with dense pedestrians and distracted motorists. &nbsp; I bought the Air Zounds compressed air horn after getting side swiped by a right-turning Subaru while going forward in a bicycle lane. &nbsp;It delivers a blast worthy of an GM Diesel-Electric plowing past a graded crossing:<p>
<a href="http://www.electricrider.com/accessories/airzounds.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.electricrider.com/accessories/airzounds.htm

<p>John Bailo<br>
<a href="http://supratext.texeme.com" rel="nofollow">Supratext:</a></br></p></a></p></br></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Git Out Da Way<p><br>
I had a similar problem with dense pedestrians and distracted motorists. &nbsp; I bought the Air Zounds compressed air horn after getting side swiped by a right-turning Subaru while going forward in a bicycle lane. &nbsp;It delivers a blast worthy of an GM Diesel-Electric plowing past a graded crossing:<p>
<a href="http://www.electricrider.com/accessories/airzounds.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.electricrider.com/accessories/airzounds.htm

<p>John Bailo<br>
<a href="http://supratext.texeme.com" rel="nofollow">Supratext:</a></br></p></a></p></br></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #21 by Sam Wells</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/bicycle-shame/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 03:18:20 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Clown Horn</strong></p><p>LOL, I love the rant ... anyway, people will look if you're honking a loud horn and yelling "Look out ... oh no ... not again ... I'M OUT OF CONTROL ... get out of the way ... holy s**t! &nbsp;AIEEEEEEE!" &nbsp;It does help to look real goofy, like wearing a tutu or a Miss Piggy outfit, although one doesn't really need to go that far. &nbsp;/sammie

<p>Onward through the fog</p></p>
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				<p><strong>Clown Horn</strong></p><p>LOL, I love the rant ... anyway, people will look if you're honking a loud horn and yelling "Look out ... oh no ... not again ... I'M OUT OF CONTROL ... get out of the way ... holy s**t! &nbsp;AIEEEEEEE!" &nbsp;It does help to look real goofy, like wearing a tutu or a Miss Piggy outfit, although one doesn't really need to go that far. &nbsp;/sammie

<p>Onward through the fog</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #22 by Biodiversivist</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/bicycle-shame/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 03:31:37 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/bicycle-shame/22</guid>
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				<p><strong>jabailo,<p>From your link:<p>
"No question. They will will hear you now. Please use this tool sparingly, only when your safety is at stake. As soon as cyclists start blasting people out of crosswalks with this horn, there will be a law...."<p>
That looks like an interesting and light weight design. I also appreciate their warning. Bicyclists, being human beings, can be just as obnoxious as motorists, they just have a harder time killing people with a bike. I bought many of my bike components from Easy Rider.<p>
I see trouble on the horizon as people start to abuse hybrid bike designs. I don't want to see them banned to the death zone (streets) along with &nbsp;motorcylces and scooters.

<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. <a href="http://www.poisondarts.net" rel="nofollow">Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world</a></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>jabailo,<p>From your link:<p>
"No question. They will will hear you now. Please use this tool sparingly, only when your safety is at stake. As soon as cyclists start blasting people out of crosswalks with this horn, there will be a law...."<p>
That looks like an interesting and light weight design. I also appreciate their warning. Bicyclists, being human beings, can be just as obnoxious as motorists, they just have a harder time killing people with a bike. I bought many of my bike components from Easy Rider.<p>
I see trouble on the horizon as people start to abuse hybrid bike designs. I don't want to see them banned to the death zone (streets) along with &nbsp;motorcylces and scooters.

<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. <a href="http://www.poisondarts.net" rel="nofollow">Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world</a></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #23 by sheila2read</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/bicycle-shame/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 04:27:05 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>cowardly elitists?</strong></p><p>I'm sorry, but anyone who thinks commuting by bike is "cowardly" hasn't ever tried to ride a bike on the roads. It takes courage and commitment to keep riding despite the prevalence of drivers who turn in front of bikers, fail to give enough room when passing, and even deliberately attempt to intimidate bikers. <br>
It's unfortunate that at times I feel I'm risking my life in my efforts to cut down on driving to lessen my carbon footprint. </p><p>
As for the "elitist" criticism, riding a bike is only elitist if you consider being in shape enough to use a bike as transportation an elite characteristic. Unfortunately, it's true to some extent that caring about fitness is more prevalent in the upper middle classes, but it doesn't have to be that way. As someone pointed out, most bikes are not very expensive, and in the long run are much cheaper than driving. </br></p>
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				<p><strong>cowardly elitists?</strong></p><p>I'm sorry, but anyone who thinks commuting by bike is "cowardly" hasn't ever tried to ride a bike on the roads. It takes courage and commitment to keep riding despite the prevalence of drivers who turn in front of bikers, fail to give enough room when passing, and even deliberately attempt to intimidate bikers. <br>
It's unfortunate that at times I feel I'm risking my life in my efforts to cut down on driving to lessen my carbon footprint. </p><p>
As for the "elitist" criticism, riding a bike is only elitist if you consider being in shape enough to use a bike as transportation an elite characteristic. Unfortunately, it's true to some extent that caring about fitness is more prevalent in the upper middle classes, but it doesn't have to be that way. As someone pointed out, most bikes are not very expensive, and in the long run are much cheaper than driving. </br></p>
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            <title>Comment #24 by Sam Wells</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/bicycle-shame/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 04:58:48 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Thanks, Sheila</strong></p><p>I guess I was portraying the fun side of bike riding but honestly, a bicycle is considered as a "motor vehicle" for the sake of traffic safety laws. &nbsp;You must ride within the roadways and obey all traffic signals and signs. &nbsp;You are not supposed to ride on sidewalks, but may ride on designated bike trails if allowed. &nbsp;Even in a designated bike lane, one must still obey all the rules regarding rules of the road. &nbsp;In areas not having designated bike lanes or paths, you are in fact force to commute in the middle of the road, and must allow vehicles to pass in a reasonable and sage manner.</p><p>
In short, you are thrown to the cars and trucks at your own risk.</p><p>
I've never been sent to the hospital but I lost count of how many times I crashed, since I commuted by bicycle for over 15 years. &nbsp;I used to have a running account at Freewheeling Bikes in Austin, Texas for replacing tires, rims, and even bending tubing back in place. &nbsp;I left Austin and shortly thereafter several people died in auto-bike collisions, one a head-on and other a DUI (during the daylight!). &nbsp;</p><p>
Not only do you need excellent stamina (or a very safe route on back roads), good eyesight, and excellent hearing, you need a "sixth sense" to know when motorists are going to twist off, have road rage, and attempt to make you crash and burn. &nbsp;Most of my accidents were from being forced into chuck holes, storm drains, and barricades while trying to evade absent minded or evil drivers. &nbsp;As noted earlier, the absent minded are worse ... they just keep drifting over at you, oblivious.</p><p>
It's a war out there and a bunch of us are sick of it.<br>
sammie

<p>Onward through the fog</p></br></p>
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				<p><strong>Thanks, Sheila</strong></p><p>I guess I was portraying the fun side of bike riding but honestly, a bicycle is considered as a "motor vehicle" for the sake of traffic safety laws. &nbsp;You must ride within the roadways and obey all traffic signals and signs. &nbsp;You are not supposed to ride on sidewalks, but may ride on designated bike trails if allowed. &nbsp;Even in a designated bike lane, one must still obey all the rules regarding rules of the road. &nbsp;In areas not having designated bike lanes or paths, you are in fact force to commute in the middle of the road, and must allow vehicles to pass in a reasonable and sage manner.</p><p>
In short, you are thrown to the cars and trucks at your own risk.</p><p>
I've never been sent to the hospital but I lost count of how many times I crashed, since I commuted by bicycle for over 15 years. &nbsp;I used to have a running account at Freewheeling Bikes in Austin, Texas for replacing tires, rims, and even bending tubing back in place. &nbsp;I left Austin and shortly thereafter several people died in auto-bike collisions, one a head-on and other a DUI (during the daylight!). &nbsp;</p><p>
Not only do you need excellent stamina (or a very safe route on back roads), good eyesight, and excellent hearing, you need a "sixth sense" to know when motorists are going to twist off, have road rage, and attempt to make you crash and burn. &nbsp;Most of my accidents were from being forced into chuck holes, storm drains, and barricades while trying to evade absent minded or evil drivers. &nbsp;As noted earlier, the absent minded are worse ... they just keep drifting over at you, oblivious.</p><p>
It's a war out there and a bunch of us are sick of it.<br>
sammie

<p>Onward through the fog</p></br></p>
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            <title>Comment #25 by Pangolin</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/bicycle-shame/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 22:30:25 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>SF bike messengers trick- A whistle.<p>San Francisco bike messengers would sometimes ride with a <strong>plastic whistle looped to their helmet and held between their teeth in traffic. Believe me a blast on a rescue whistle and drivers heads whip around to find you. They've all been programmed to think whistle=police. Make sure the whistle is plastic or you will lose teeth.<p>
My xtracycle has been shipped and arrives monday. It's like Christmas for me. 

<p><a href="http://putcarbonback.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">Put  the Carbon Back</a></p></p></strong></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>SF bike messengers trick- A whistle.<p>San Francisco bike messengers would sometimes ride with a <strong>plastic whistle looped to their helmet and held between their teeth in traffic. Believe me a blast on a rescue whistle and drivers heads whip around to find you. They've all been programmed to think whistle=police. Make sure the whistle is plastic or you will lose teeth.<p>
My xtracycle has been shipped and arrives monday. It's like Christmas for me. 

<p><a href="http://putcarbonback.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">Put  the Carbon Back</a></p></p></strong></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #26 by DaveGreenAndRed</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/bicycle-shame/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 29 Jul 2007 13:00:10 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/bicycle-shame/26</guid>
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				<p><strong>Missed the point</strong></p><p>Actually, the myth is not just that cyclist are elitist, but that environmentalists are elitist (the creators and proponents of the myth also assert that all cyclists are environmentalists). &nbsp;</p><p>
But the point being missed here isn't that the myth makes no sense. &nbsp;Of course it makes no sense, as Alan demontrates.</p><p>
The point, rather, is that the myth was created, deliberately. &nbsp;And the only way to kill it will be to replace it, and that means consistently pushing a different view, i.e. framing.</p><p>
We won't shake this myth loose by pointing out how ludicrous it is. &nbsp;Instead, we have to point out that hummers and SUVs are driven by elites (mainly lazy woosies). &nbsp;We have to point out that the rich - yes, actually the rich - are elites. &nbsp;We have to put reality back into the language. &nbsp;And we have to harp on these points consistently in order to reframe the discussion.</p>
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				<p><strong>Missed the point</strong></p><p>Actually, the myth is not just that cyclist are elitist, but that environmentalists are elitist (the creators and proponents of the myth also assert that all cyclists are environmentalists). &nbsp;</p><p>
But the point being missed here isn't that the myth makes no sense. &nbsp;Of course it makes no sense, as Alan demontrates.</p><p>
The point, rather, is that the myth was created, deliberately. &nbsp;And the only way to kill it will be to replace it, and that means consistently pushing a different view, i.e. framing.</p><p>
We won't shake this myth loose by pointing out how ludicrous it is. &nbsp;Instead, we have to point out that hummers and SUVs are driven by elites (mainly lazy woosies). &nbsp;We have to point out that the rich - yes, actually the rich - are elites. &nbsp;We have to put reality back into the language. &nbsp;And we have to harp on these points consistently in order to reframe the discussion.</p>
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