<![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Tomato salmonella scare hits the big time]]> Grist Comment Feed en Comment #1 by redambrosia99 http://www.grist.org/article/attack-of-the-killer-tomatoes-national-edition/ Wed, 11 Jun 2008 01:56:58 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/attack-of-the-killer-tomatoes-national-edition/1 boing

Tomatoes shouldn't bounce when you drop them... they should splat.

]]> boing

Tomatoes shouldn't bounce when you drop them... they should splat.

]]> Comment #2 by caniscandida http://www.grist.org/article/attack-of-the-killer-tomatoes-national-edition/ Wed, 11 Jun 2008 02:09:44 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/attack-of-the-killer-tomatoes-national-edition/2 robusthood?; robustiness?; robustity?

Yes, I think the word must be "robustity."

There are a couple of different issues here.  (1a.) "Ridiculously robust" tomatoes are mediocre food, to put it generously; and (1b.) the supermarket chain is either foolish or insulting to boast about stocking tomatoes of such poor quality.

But then (2.), the very robustity of the tomatoes helps transport the disease they carry, very successfully, far and wide.

That is kind of accidental, though, and should not be blamed directly on the fruits' tough and durable truckability.

Anyway, it would be helpful to know if the pathogen resides on the surface of the tomato, or deep in its flesh.  Can washing our tomatoes save them?  Or, are they hopeless?

Chickens deserve our true friendship! So do fish! So do other sentient beings! Let us learn to be kind.

]]> robusthood?; robustiness?; robustity?

Yes, I think the word must be "robustity."

There are a couple of different issues here.  (1a.) "Ridiculously robust" tomatoes are mediocre food, to put it generously; and (1b.) the supermarket chain is either foolish or insulting to boast about stocking tomatoes of such poor quality.

But then (2.), the very robustity of the tomatoes helps transport the disease they carry, very successfully, far and wide.

That is kind of accidental, though, and should not be blamed directly on the fruits' tough and durable truckability.

Anyway, it would be helpful to know if the pathogen resides on the surface of the tomato, or deep in its flesh.  Can washing our tomatoes save them?  Or, are they hopeless?

Chickens deserve our true friendship! So do fish! So do other sentient beings! Let us learn to be kind.

]]> Comment #3 by cactusflinthead http://www.grist.org/article/attack-of-the-killer-tomatoes-national-edition/ Wed, 11 Jun 2008 03:24:45 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/attack-of-the-killer-tomatoes-national-edition/3 salmonella contamination from the CDC

In the eastern United States, tomatoes are grown in natural habitats for many known Salmonella reservoirs, including birds, amphibians, and reptiles. Salmonella infections have been linked to tomatoes since 1990, when S. Javiana caused 176 illnesses in four midwestern states (2). Those tomatoes, and those implicated in a subsequent outbreak in 1993, were traced to a South Carolina packing house. Cross-contamination might have occurred at the packing house, where substantial numbers of tomatoes passed through a common wash tank (2). In 1994 and 1995, a Hazard Analysis Critical Control Points program was implemented at this packing house and disseminated to the tomato industry (3). The key critical-control point implemented was maintenance of water quality, specifically monitoring chlorine levels, pH, and water temperature in the wash tank. Of seven subsequent tomato-associated Salmonella outbreaks, six have been traced to other packing houses in the southeastern United States (4,5). Although produce packing houses are specifically exempt from the requirements of Good Manufacturing Practices (GMPs), FDA guidance (6) to the produce industry encourages GMP controls for water used in packing houses. However, the extent to which FDA guidance has been adopted by the industry is unknown. Tomato-associated Salmonella outbreaks reported to CDC have increased in frequency and magnitude in recent years and caused 1,616 reported illnesses in nine outbreaks during 1990--2004, representing approximately 60,000 illnesses when accounting for the estimated proportion (97.5%) of unreported illness (7).

Salmonella can enter tomato plants through roots or flowers (8) and can enter the tomato fruit through small cracks in the skin, the stem scar, or the plant itself (9). However, whether Salmonella can travel from roots to the fruit, or if seeds can contaminate subsequent generations of tomato plants, is unknown. Understanding the mechanism of contamination and amplification of contamination of large volumes of tomatoes is critical to prevent large-scale, tomato-associated outbreaks. Contamination might occur during multiple steps from the tomato seed nursery to the final kitchen. Eradication of Salmonella from the interior of the tomato is difficult without cooking, even if treated with highly concentrated chlorine solution (10).
CDC

So, if I am reading it right, it can enter in a number of ways, is difficult to control and is hard to track down. That does not instill in me a sense of confidence.

"There are no geniuses in football, a genius is someone like Norman Einstein." Joe Theisman


]]> salmonella contamination from the CDC

In the eastern United States, tomatoes are grown in natural habitats for many known Salmonella reservoirs, including birds, amphibians, and reptiles. Salmonella infections have been linked to tomatoes since 1990, when S. Javiana caused 176 illnesses in four midwestern states (2). Those tomatoes, and those implicated in a subsequent outbreak in 1993, were traced to a South Carolina packing house. Cross-contamination might have occurred at the packing house, where substantial numbers of tomatoes passed through a common wash tank (2). In 1994 and 1995, a Hazard Analysis Critical Control Points program was implemented at this packing house and disseminated to the tomato industry (3). The key critical-control point implemented was maintenance of water quality, specifically monitoring chlorine levels, pH, and water temperature in the wash tank. Of seven subsequent tomato-associated Salmonella outbreaks, six have been traced to other packing houses in the southeastern United States (4,5). Although produce packing houses are specifically exempt from the requirements of Good Manufacturing Practices (GMPs), FDA guidance (6) to the produce industry encourages GMP controls for water used in packing houses. However, the extent to which FDA guidance has been adopted by the industry is unknown. Tomato-associated Salmonella outbreaks reported to CDC have increased in frequency and magnitude in recent years and caused 1,616 reported illnesses in nine outbreaks during 1990--2004, representing approximately 60,000 illnesses when accounting for the estimated proportion (97.5%) of unreported illness (7).

Salmonella can enter tomato plants through roots or flowers (8) and can enter the tomato fruit through small cracks in the skin, the stem scar, or the plant itself (9). However, whether Salmonella can travel from roots to the fruit, or if seeds can contaminate subsequent generations of tomato plants, is unknown. Understanding the mechanism of contamination and amplification of contamination of large volumes of tomatoes is critical to prevent large-scale, tomato-associated outbreaks. Contamination might occur during multiple steps from the tomato seed nursery to the final kitchen. Eradication of Salmonella from the interior of the tomato is difficult without cooking, even if treated with highly concentrated chlorine solution (10).
CDC

So, if I am reading it right, it can enter in a number of ways, is difficult to control and is hard to track down. That does not instill in me a sense of confidence.

"There are no geniuses in football, a genius is someone like Norman Einstein." Joe Theisman


]]> Comment #4 by mihan http://www.grist.org/article/attack-of-the-killer-tomatoes-national-edition/ Wed, 11 Jun 2008 03:48:09 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/attack-of-the-killer-tomatoes-national-edition/4 salmonella eradication

I believe one could use the same procedure recommended for cantaloupes (which are notorious breeding grounds for salmonella, we're led to believe): washing in a dilute bleach solution.

]]> salmonella eradication

I believe one could use the same procedure recommended for cantaloupes (which are notorious breeding grounds for salmonella, we're led to believe): washing in a dilute bleach solution.

]]> Comment #5 by MsJ http://www.grist.org/article/attack-of-the-killer-tomatoes-national-edition/ Wed, 11 Jun 2008 04:50:04 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/attack-of-the-killer-tomatoes-national-edition/5 local

I think the key point is that these are raw, fresh tomatoes transported through a long supply chain. Another argument for buying local produce from someone you can know and trust. Or grow it yourself. Not in season? Canned fruits and vegetables have already had the necessary heat applied to kill the salmonella organism. Best choice? Canned tomatoes from a local company you can know and trust.

]]> local

I think the key point is that these are raw, fresh tomatoes transported through a long supply chain. Another argument for buying local produce from someone you can know and trust. Or grow it yourself. Not in season? Canned fruits and vegetables have already had the necessary heat applied to kill the salmonella organism. Best choice? Canned tomatoes from a local company you can know and trust.

]]> Comment #6 by meander http://www.grist.org/article/attack-of-the-killer-tomatoes-national-edition/ Wed, 11 Jun 2008 15:11:50 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/attack-of-the-killer-tomatoes-national-edition/6 Salmonella items

caniscandida wrote "Anyway, it would be helpful to know if the pathogen resides on the surface of the tomato, or deep in its flesh.  Can washing our tomatoes save them?  Or, are they hopeless?"

The Food and Drug Administration has some FAQs on tomatoes and salmonella. They don't specify where the bacteria reside and recommend tossing any fresh tomatoes you have. Other people, like journalist Elizabeth Weise of USA Today, say that "Cooking tomatoes at 145 degrees for at least 15 seconds will probably kill the bacteria." Finally, if you know which state your tomatoes came from (not likely), you can see if that state is on the recall list.  California, for example, is not on the list (and is also not producing many fresh tomatoes for export right now -- the crop is still a few weeks away).

]]> Salmonella items

caniscandida wrote "Anyway, it would be helpful to know if the pathogen resides on the surface of the tomato, or deep in its flesh.  Can washing our tomatoes save them?  Or, are they hopeless?"

The Food and Drug Administration has some FAQs on tomatoes and salmonella. They don't specify where the bacteria reside and recommend tossing any fresh tomatoes you have. Other people, like journalist Elizabeth Weise of USA Today, say that "Cooking tomatoes at 145 degrees for at least 15 seconds will probably kill the bacteria." Finally, if you know which state your tomatoes came from (not likely), you can see if that state is on the recall list.  California, for example, is not on the list (and is also not producing many fresh tomatoes for export right now -- the crop is still a few weeks away).

]]> Comment #7 by amazingdrx http://www.grist.org/article/attack-of-the-killer-tomatoes-national-edition/ Wed, 11 Jun 2008 15:29:40 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/attack-of-the-killer-tomatoes-national-edition/7 Soak

Simply soaking the tomatoes in citric acid solution will kill the surface bacteria.  Citric acid, vitamin C, the main acidic ingredient in lemon juice will not harm the taste or safety of the food.  If bacteria is lodged in the surface the acid will get it, it would just take longer.

I think it's on the surface Canis, even sewage pathogens don't go through cell walls into roots, to stalks and stems and into fruit.  I have heard anti-organic food rumors of this, scare tactics.

Anti-biotic resistant coloform bacteria!  Cry the slightly more articulate limboobs!  I tell them, it's anti-biotics in the food chain from chemical ag mutating the bacteria.  Organic food grown on biodigested fertilizer is the healthiest.

Veggies grown directly with raw (human?) sewage irrigation is the norm in mexico and even across the border.  So that's where the stuff is coming from.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

]]> Soak

Simply soaking the tomatoes in citric acid solution will kill the surface bacteria.  Citric acid, vitamin C, the main acidic ingredient in lemon juice will not harm the taste or safety of the food.  If bacteria is lodged in the surface the acid will get it, it would just take longer.

I think it's on the surface Canis, even sewage pathogens don't go through cell walls into roots, to stalks and stems and into fruit.  I have heard anti-organic food rumors of this, scare tactics.

Anti-biotic resistant coloform bacteria!  Cry the slightly more articulate limboobs!  I tell them, it's anti-biotics in the food chain from chemical ag mutating the bacteria.  Organic food grown on biodigested fertilizer is the healthiest.

Veggies grown directly with raw (human?) sewage irrigation is the norm in mexico and even across the border.  So that's where the stuff is coming from.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

]]> Comment #8 by caniscandida http://www.grist.org/article/attack-of-the-killer-tomatoes-national-edition/ Wed, 11 Jun 2008 21:35:55 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/attack-of-the-killer-tomatoes-national-edition/8 "human sewage"

Thanks, Meander and Amazing.  I was indeed worried about poopy tomatoes -- but I did not know exactly how the poop becomes a problem.

There is the one issue, about how the handlers of our food do not wash their hands: totally a surface thing, presumably washable in Amazing's citric (or vinegar?) solution.

But then, there is the other issue, when poop is used as fertilizer.  And, biologically, it is rather amazing (small A), actually, that plants can introduce living micro-organisms from the soil into the fruits that they are making.

Anyway, I ate some tabouleh salad (parsley and other greens, with chopped onions and tomatoes, and spices, and olive oil and vinegar) from a Lebanese deli in this neighborhood; and sure enough, I got a serious tummy ache.  Of course, it is always a kind of suicidal gesture when I order their tabouleh, because I always end up feeling a bit sickish afterwards: but it is SO GOOD!

Chickens deserve our true friendship! So do fish! So do other sentient beings! Let us learn to be kind.

]]> "human sewage"

Thanks, Meander and Amazing.  I was indeed worried about poopy tomatoes -- but I did not know exactly how the poop becomes a problem.

There is the one issue, about how the handlers of our food do not wash their hands: totally a surface thing, presumably washable in Amazing's citric (or vinegar?) solution.

But then, there is the other issue, when poop is used as fertilizer.  And, biologically, it is rather amazing (small A), actually, that plants can introduce living micro-organisms from the soil into the fruits that they are making.

Anyway, I ate some tabouleh salad (parsley and other greens, with chopped onions and tomatoes, and spices, and olive oil and vinegar) from a Lebanese deli in this neighborhood; and sure enough, I got a serious tummy ache.  Of course, it is always a kind of suicidal gesture when I order their tabouleh, because I always end up feeling a bit sickish afterwards: but it is SO GOOD!

Chickens deserve our true friendship! So do fish! So do other sentient beings! Let us learn to be kind.

]]> Comment #9 by kmp http://www.grist.org/article/attack-of-the-killer-tomatoes-national-edition/ Thu, 12 Jun 2008 00:34:25 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/attack-of-the-killer-tomatoes-national-edition/9 Robustity

Maybe Safeway means: "You're immune system had better be ridiculously robust in order to gamble on our tomatoes!"

I don't know many Moms these days who are not feeding their kids organic food.  But then, I live in a quite affluent part of the world; I feel for those who have kids, or an elderly parent at home, who truly cannot afford organic.

Even more reason to grow your own; although this NYTimes piece focuses on the economic benefit.  And I am glad I am growing my own - although I've been battling leafhoppers and I think my star plant, the only one (yet) with fruit, has succommbed to the dreaded Curly Top Virus. Sigh.

It's a good thing there are farmers... because this is not easy.  If I had to fend for myself, I'd be in trouble.

]]> Robustity

Maybe Safeway means: "You're immune system had better be ridiculously robust in order to gamble on our tomatoes!"

I don't know many Moms these days who are not feeding their kids organic food.  But then, I live in a quite affluent part of the world; I feel for those who have kids, or an elderly parent at home, who truly cannot afford organic.

Even more reason to grow your own; although this NYTimes piece focuses on the economic benefit.  And I am glad I am growing my own - although I've been battling leafhoppers and I think my star plant, the only one (yet) with fruit, has succommbed to the dreaded Curly Top Virus. Sigh.

It's a good thing there are farmers... because this is not easy.  If I had to fend for myself, I'd be in trouble.

]]> Comment #10 by PermieWriter http://www.grist.org/article/attack-of-the-killer-tomatoes-national-edition/ Thu, 12 Jun 2008 07:21:23 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/attack-of-the-killer-tomatoes-national-edition/10 Tomato pests

My sympathies, kmp. Too many critters like chomping on tender tomato greenery. Have you tried cutting back on the nitrogen-heavy fertilizers? That can make them less appealing to pests.

We've had terrible problems with wilt, so we have to grow all the non-hybrids in raised containers with purchased soil. At least it gives us something useful to do with the driveway.

I'm looking forward to the advent of tomato season. The farmers markets have had them for a while, but I can tell they're not the real thing yet (i.e. they're raised in greenhouses).

Eat what you grow, grow what you eat

]]> Tomato pests

My sympathies, kmp. Too many critters like chomping on tender tomato greenery. Have you tried cutting back on the nitrogen-heavy fertilizers? That can make them less appealing to pests.

We've had terrible problems with wilt, so we have to grow all the non-hybrids in raised containers with purchased soil. At least it gives us something useful to do with the driveway.

I'm looking forward to the advent of tomato season. The farmers markets have had them for a while, but I can tell they're not the real thing yet (i.e. they're raised in greenhouses).

Eat what you grow, grow what you eat

]]> Comment #11 by kmp http://www.grist.org/article/attack-of-the-killer-tomatoes-national-edition/ Thu, 12 Jun 2008 08:09:49 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/attack-of-the-killer-tomatoes-national-edition/11 Geraniums, lavender and yarrow, oh my!

Thanks, PermieWriter, for the advice.  Unfortunately, it can't be traced to fertilizer (at least I don't think it can), as I have not fertilized them at all (yet).  My yard is mainly shaded due to lots of pine trees, so I'm attempting tomatoes on the deck in containers.  This is my first year of really growing, well, anything, so it is a grand experiment.  Normally I can't even keep a cactus alive... but we shall see!

The tomato plant in question was in a big container of purchased potting mix (FoxFarm Ocean Forest, for which I paid a ludricrous sum to have shipped by Seeds of Change). One might say that Mother Earth was getting back at me for "cheating;" I did start tomato seeds back in March, but apparently not early enough, as my seedlings range from about 2 - 5 inches tall at the moment.  I bought one, good-sized heirloom tomato plant from my local organic farmer's market, so I could get some earlier tomatoes (and just in case mine never make it to fruiting before the Northeast cold sets in!)  Well, this is the one plant they attacked, and it is the one plant looking a little wilty and unhappy.  So, a Google-hour later, I realized that 1) I had leafhoppers, 2) I should not give the plant lots of space, i.e. I should have crowded a couple more similar-sized plants together, 3) I should try to give it a break from afternoon sun, as leafhoppers like to feed in the strong sun, and 4) once infected with the curly top virus, there is not much to do but throw the plant away.  In fact, you want to throw it away to keep more leafhoppers from picking up the virus and transmitting it to your other plants.

One of my organic growing books recommended geraniums, as in "leafhoppers hate geraniums" and on-line I found other recommendations for bug-discouraging plants. $85 later I now have a variety of lavender, geranium, scented geranium, lemongrass, marigold, yarrow, spearmint and thyme (plus oregano, basil, rosemary and eucalyptus, because, well, herbs were half off) surrounding my tomato & cucumber plants.  I also sprayed the big plant with some Mrs. Meyer's geranium dish soap mixed with water (I happen to use it so had it in the house, conveniently).

So far it seems to be working, although it may just be that my little seedlings don't yet have the big, broad leaves that the leafhoppers like.  Unfortunately, I think the recent heat wave caused a massive hatch of leafhoppers - they are ALL over the raspberries, prickers and other scrubby brush along the side of our yard.

My "save money and grow my own tomatoes" plan is not quite proceeding according to plan, but now, of course, it is not about the money. I am officially obsessed.  Is there a good support group you can recommend?  ;)

]]> Geraniums, lavender and yarrow, oh my!

Thanks, PermieWriter, for the advice.  Unfortunately, it can't be traced to fertilizer (at least I don't think it can), as I have not fertilized them at all (yet).  My yard is mainly shaded due to lots of pine trees, so I'm attempting tomatoes on the deck in containers.  This is my first year of really growing, well, anything, so it is a grand experiment.  Normally I can't even keep a cactus alive... but we shall see!

The tomato plant in question was in a big container of purchased potting mix (FoxFarm Ocean Forest, for which I paid a ludricrous sum to have shipped by Seeds of Change). One might say that Mother Earth was getting back at me for "cheating;" I did start tomato seeds back in March, but apparently not early enough, as my seedlings range from about 2 - 5 inches tall at the moment.  I bought one, good-sized heirloom tomato plant from my local organic farmer's market, so I could get some earlier tomatoes (and just in case mine never make it to fruiting before the Northeast cold sets in!)  Well, this is the one plant they attacked, and it is the one plant looking a little wilty and unhappy.  So, a Google-hour later, I realized that 1) I had leafhoppers, 2) I should not give the plant lots of space, i.e. I should have crowded a couple more similar-sized plants together, 3) I should try to give it a break from afternoon sun, as leafhoppers like to feed in the strong sun, and 4) once infected with the curly top virus, there is not much to do but throw the plant away.  In fact, you want to throw it away to keep more leafhoppers from picking up the virus and transmitting it to your other plants.

One of my organic growing books recommended geraniums, as in "leafhoppers hate geraniums" and on-line I found other recommendations for bug-discouraging plants. $85 later I now have a variety of lavender, geranium, scented geranium, lemongrass, marigold, yarrow, spearmint and thyme (plus oregano, basil, rosemary and eucalyptus, because, well, herbs were half off) surrounding my tomato & cucumber plants.  I also sprayed the big plant with some Mrs. Meyer's geranium dish soap mixed with water (I happen to use it so had it in the house, conveniently).

So far it seems to be working, although it may just be that my little seedlings don't yet have the big, broad leaves that the leafhoppers like.  Unfortunately, I think the recent heat wave caused a massive hatch of leafhoppers - they are ALL over the raspberries, prickers and other scrubby brush along the side of our yard.

My "save money and grow my own tomatoes" plan is not quite proceeding according to plan, but now, of course, it is not about the money. I am officially obsessed.  Is there a good support group you can recommend?  ;)

]]> Comment #12 by amazingdrx http://www.grist.org/article/attack-of-the-killer-tomatoes-national-edition/ Fri, 13 Jun 2008 15:27:37 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/attack-of-the-killer-tomatoes-national-edition/12 Fright

http://www.wri.org/publication/content/8661

Be afraid.  Raw sewage irrigation is the norm in the regions where our veggies come from now that most farming has been outsourced.  Not out of the country, not all of it, but outsourced to bushco country.

Imagine bush as the marlboro man-like figure opening a raw sewage gate to power "free" market agribizz culture, hehey.

No inspections by any government agency in bushco country.  Smooth.  Refreshing, where the biggest (GOP connected of course) crooks take over all the business from honest farmers who don't use raw sewage on crops.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

]]> Fright

http://www.wri.org/publication/content/8661

Be afraid.  Raw sewage irrigation is the norm in the regions where our veggies come from now that most farming has been outsourced.  Not out of the country, not all of it, but outsourced to bushco country.

Imagine bush as the marlboro man-like figure opening a raw sewage gate to power "free" market agribizz culture, hehey.

No inspections by any government agency in bushco country.  Smooth.  Refreshing, where the biggest (GOP connected of course) crooks take over all the business from honest farmers who don't use raw sewage on crops.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

]]> Comment #13 by caniscandida http://www.grist.org/article/attack-of-the-killer-tomatoes-national-edition/ Fri, 13 Jun 2008 21:24:15 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/attack-of-the-killer-tomatoes-national-edition/13 tomatoes and bugs

Good luck with your tomatoes, KMP!  Sorry you have run into such serious complications.  Your deck is presumably pretty crowded at this point, with all those guardian geraniums, and allies, surrounding the tomatoes and cucumbers.  But no doubt it is decorative.

I hope the Mrs. Meyers' geranium dish-washing liquid solution works.  Sam Wells had shared his recipe for non-toxic bug spray, a few weeks ago.  As I recall, Ivory soap was a principal ingredient.

Chickens deserve our true friendship! So do fish! So do other sentient beings! Let us learn to be kind.

]]> tomatoes and bugs

Good luck with your tomatoes, KMP!  Sorry you have run into such serious complications.  Your deck is presumably pretty crowded at this point, with all those guardian geraniums, and allies, surrounding the tomatoes and cucumbers.  But no doubt it is decorative.

I hope the Mrs. Meyers' geranium dish-washing liquid solution works.  Sam Wells had shared his recipe for non-toxic bug spray, a few weeks ago.  As I recall, Ivory soap was a principal ingredient.

Chickens deserve our true friendship! So do fish! So do other sentient beings! Let us learn to be kind.

]]>