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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Umbra on burning paper]]></title>
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            <title>Comment #1 by 314159265</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/ash-ask/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 19 Mar 2008 04:07:11 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/ash-ask/1</guid>
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				<p><strong>Who needs &quot;paper&quot; to start a fire, ...</strong></p><p>... has no f'n idea of fire, and should be kept away from any decent fire place.</p><p>
--&gt; Use matches to light wood splinters &lt;--<br>
In wet conditions you might add some birch bark as accelerator.</p><p>
Yeah, I know, everybody needs to use "paper". And nobody knows what a decent fireplace is. And any trash resembling paper they call "paper". It stinks like chemo hell when burnt, but paper is paper is paper. And then they proudly use the ashes as fertilizer in the garden. Yuck! <br>
Looks like some sort of mass delusion or dementia ...</br></br></p>
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				<p><strong>Who needs &quot;paper&quot; to start a fire, ...</strong></p><p>... has no f'n idea of fire, and should be kept away from any decent fire place.</p><p>
--&gt; Use matches to light wood splinters &lt;--<br>
In wet conditions you might add some birch bark as accelerator.</p><p>
Yeah, I know, everybody needs to use "paper". And nobody knows what a decent fireplace is. And any trash resembling paper they call "paper". It stinks like chemo hell when burnt, but paper is paper is paper. And then they proudly use the ashes as fertilizer in the garden. Yuck! <br>
Looks like some sort of mass delusion or dementia ...</br></br></p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by ethuiel</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/ash-ask/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 19 Mar 2008 07:17:53 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/ash-ask/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>RE: Who needs &quot;paper&quot; to start a fire</strong></p><p>I think that was a bit harsh. I do understand that it is better to use wood splinters or other non-paper methods, but I have had a well tended "decent" fireplace all my life (my dad taught me to light it when I was seven, and at this point I'd like to think I'm pretty good at it). I have tried the method you suggest, and frankly, that is something I know I'm bad at - and it leads to much frustration on a cold, wintry morning. Birch is not native to my area, so that is not an option. While I think I could probably start a fire without paper to save my life, frankly, using a little bit of written on drawing paper to begin with is an OK compromise in my book. </p><p>
Also, people only know what they've been taught, and we can't practice what we don't know. If we have not been taught your method, then we won't know how to use it. We subscribe to Grist because our heart is in the right place, but we know we don't necessarily know everything about how to put our beliefs to action. I don't think it's a mass delusion or dementia. If you would like to teach us step by step how to start a fire without wood that might be a really helpful thing to do, especially if you give tips on how to keep those little splinters lit for long enough to catch other wood. It would be especially helpful if you were also a little more patient with those of us who know less than you do as you do teach us. </p><p>
Thank you.</p>
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				<p><strong>RE: Who needs &quot;paper&quot; to start a fire</strong></p><p>I think that was a bit harsh. I do understand that it is better to use wood splinters or other non-paper methods, but I have had a well tended "decent" fireplace all my life (my dad taught me to light it when I was seven, and at this point I'd like to think I'm pretty good at it). I have tried the method you suggest, and frankly, that is something I know I'm bad at - and it leads to much frustration on a cold, wintry morning. Birch is not native to my area, so that is not an option. While I think I could probably start a fire without paper to save my life, frankly, using a little bit of written on drawing paper to begin with is an OK compromise in my book. </p><p>
Also, people only know what they've been taught, and we can't practice what we don't know. If we have not been taught your method, then we won't know how to use it. We subscribe to Grist because our heart is in the right place, but we know we don't necessarily know everything about how to put our beliefs to action. I don't think it's a mass delusion or dementia. If you would like to teach us step by step how to start a fire without wood that might be a really helpful thing to do, especially if you give tips on how to keep those little splinters lit for long enough to catch other wood. It would be especially helpful if you were also a little more patient with those of us who know less than you do as you do teach us. </p><p>
Thank you.</p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by grapequeen</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/ash-ask/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 02:28:28 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/ash-ask/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>Is paper recycling efficient?</strong></p><p>I've heard comments, mostly from hard-core conservatives, that paper recycling is inefficient. They have said there are warehouses and warehouses and warehouses filled with paper that will never be recycled and will eventually be thrown away in landfills. They use it as justification NOT to recycle paper at all.</p><p>
Is this true?????</p>
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				<p><strong>Is paper recycling efficient?</strong></p><p>I've heard comments, mostly from hard-core conservatives, that paper recycling is inefficient. They have said there are warehouses and warehouses and warehouses filled with paper that will never be recycled and will eventually be thrown away in landfills. They use it as justification NOT to recycle paper at all.</p><p>
Is this true?????</p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by 314159265</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/ash-ask/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 02:53:41 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/ash-ask/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>sorry for sounding harsh</strong></p><p>The problem seems people just don't want to learn, experiment, care about fire. They just want to consume it, not invest any brainlard in it. The big disconnect with that first big "medicine" of the hominid species. The fireplace is where the naked ape grew his brains. But today at the fireplace Homo S "Sapiens" paradigmaticly exhibits how he lost all wits.</p><p>
I love spending days and nights outside in the wild at a comfty, clean, smoke free fire place. I need no TV. Fire is interactive multimedia.</p><p>
But them hominids always have to spoil it. They don't know about a decent fire place because they never ever witness one because they spoil it before. First thing is to throw "paper" in it. Yuck. So I won't bake them chapati bread on the embers (that would be coprophagia). Next thing is to wank the hearth stones with wax, for the stupid need candles for light at the fireplace (instead of just making their f'n smoke burn and give light). Yuck. So I won't make cheese toast on these stones. Then comes the next yuck, etc. etc. ... And so, over many years I've lost most of my mercy.</p><p>
----------------<br>
Some rules of thumb for making fire:<br>


 Small wood lights big wood<br>
 Fire wants to move upward<br>
 Fire is a smoke burning machine</p><p>


When I start a fire, I make a little heap of small woods, enlarge it with not-so-small woods, all quite tight, and place the first big woods around. Then I use a match or two (and won't be ashamed if I need three) and start it. My heap will be extremely smoke producing at first. So them hominds usually get hysteric and I have to fend them off, lest they spoil the initial ignition phase. When the smoke gets hot enough, it will ignite and burn like a candle. Then I carefully add more wood: Trying to not kill or maim the fire by throwing wood at it is yet another point that seems difficult to grasp for mortal users...</br></br></br></br></p>
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				<p><strong>sorry for sounding harsh</strong></p><p>The problem seems people just don't want to learn, experiment, care about fire. They just want to consume it, not invest any brainlard in it. The big disconnect with that first big "medicine" of the hominid species. The fireplace is where the naked ape grew his brains. But today at the fireplace Homo S "Sapiens" paradigmaticly exhibits how he lost all wits.</p><p>
I love spending days and nights outside in the wild at a comfty, clean, smoke free fire place. I need no TV. Fire is interactive multimedia.</p><p>
But them hominids always have to spoil it. They don't know about a decent fire place because they never ever witness one because they spoil it before. First thing is to throw "paper" in it. Yuck. So I won't bake them chapati bread on the embers (that would be coprophagia). Next thing is to wank the hearth stones with wax, for the stupid need candles for light at the fireplace (instead of just making their f'n smoke burn and give light). Yuck. So I won't make cheese toast on these stones. Then comes the next yuck, etc. etc. ... And so, over many years I've lost most of my mercy.</p><p>
----------------<br>
Some rules of thumb for making fire:<br>


 Small wood lights big wood<br>
 Fire wants to move upward<br>
 Fire is a smoke burning machine</p><p>


When I start a fire, I make a little heap of small woods, enlarge it with not-so-small woods, all quite tight, and place the first big woods around. Then I use a match or two (and won't be ashamed if I need three) and start it. My heap will be extremely smoke producing at first. So them hominds usually get hysteric and I have to fend them off, lest they spoil the initial ignition phase. When the smoke gets hot enough, it will ignite and burn like a candle. Then I carefully add more wood: Trying to not kill or maim the fire by throwing wood at it is yet another point that seems difficult to grasp for mortal users...</br></br></br></br></p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by RobRecycler</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/ash-ask/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 16:51:11 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/ash-ask/5</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>paper recycling vs. fire starting</strong></p><p>Umbra is right as usual; paper is MUCH better used in a recycling process than in a combustion process. <br>
Grapequeen, those comments you've heard are false and unsupported by fact, no matter that they've been repeated by right-wing radio ranters. <br>
Umbra, sometimes-grumpy Mr. Pi, ethuiel, and others who may care: &nbsp;molded-pulp products such as egg cartons are really not very good for recycling into paper or cardboard, but they are dandy firestarters, far better than printed matter. One match will light the egg carton, it lights the kindling, and (following Mr. Pi's good rules) you're on your way to warmth. &nbsp; </br></br></p>
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				<p><strong>paper recycling vs. fire starting</strong></p><p>Umbra is right as usual; paper is MUCH better used in a recycling process than in a combustion process. <br>
Grapequeen, those comments you've heard are false and unsupported by fact, no matter that they've been repeated by right-wing radio ranters. <br>
Umbra, sometimes-grumpy Mr. Pi, ethuiel, and others who may care: &nbsp;molded-pulp products such as egg cartons are really not very good for recycling into paper or cardboard, but they are dandy firestarters, far better than printed matter. One match will light the egg carton, it lights the kindling, and (following Mr. Pi's good rules) you're on your way to warmth. &nbsp; </br></br></p>
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            <title>Comment #6 by mtvyfan</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/ash-ask/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 21 Mar 2008 01:43:08 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/ash-ask/6</guid>
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				<p><strong>Health effects of too much smoke</strong></p><p>I appreciate your frustration 314159265 and I can get pretty fired up myself when people discuss GMOs or any other thing that I am passionate about, but I use paper in my wood stove because it is more efficient and I don't want to have to breathe more smoke than I have to.</p><p>
If I ever want to cook anything on my wood stove, I would set it on the cook top and not use the fire itself anyway. Smoke even in the most seasoned wood could leave a bad taste on the food I would think.</p><p>
As far as the environmental impact, my home is set up with electrical heat, expensive (previous owner often paid over $300/mo) and supports the electric industry. I live in Montana and once deregulation screwed the citizens out of our cheap power, I try to support NorthWestern Energy as little as possible.</p>
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				<p><strong>Health effects of too much smoke</strong></p><p>I appreciate your frustration 314159265 and I can get pretty fired up myself when people discuss GMOs or any other thing that I am passionate about, but I use paper in my wood stove because it is more efficient and I don't want to have to breathe more smoke than I have to.</p><p>
If I ever want to cook anything on my wood stove, I would set it on the cook top and not use the fire itself anyway. Smoke even in the most seasoned wood could leave a bad taste on the food I would think.</p><p>
As far as the environmental impact, my home is set up with electrical heat, expensive (previous owner often paid over $300/mo) and supports the electric industry. I live in Montana and once deregulation screwed the citizens out of our cheap power, I try to support NorthWestern Energy as little as possible.</p>
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            <title>Comment #7 by meganinak</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/ash-ask/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2008 06:41:08 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/ash-ask/7</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Firetender's Badge</strong></p><p>I sometimes agononize about getting the fire started and keeping it going in the woodstove or out in the bush. There is no reason to be cold we have the technology. &nbsp;These are some of the things I keep in mind for a hot clean burning fire. &nbsp;<br>
1)Be organized: I keep piles of dry tinder, kindling, and fuel within reach. &nbsp;The tinder I get from around the woodshed or from the tips of fallen tree branches and is all smaller than my pinky finger. Kindling is smaller than my hand. &nbsp;And for fuel I like a woodstove door that is big so I don't have to cut firewood so small. &nbsp;<br>
2)There are 6 sides to a fire: the top the bottom and the four sides around, keep an eye on all of them.<br>
3)Fire needs air, fuel, and heat to burn. If you take away any of these, your fire will go out.<br>
4)Understand how your woodstove/campfire ventilates.<br>
Also I have been experimenting with non-petroleum jelly, cotton balls and one of those magnesium sticks. They work pretty good, but I still use matches inside.<br>
Thanks Umbra for this (and the past garbage) info on burnables. We are about to put a rainwater collection system in. &nbsp;With the stove pipe coming out of the roof, all those particulates and dioxins could come back to us sooner than later. We live in area that just got garbage collection service and still no recyling. &nbsp;But we are trying.</br></br></br></br></br></br></p>
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				<p><strong>Firetender's Badge</strong></p><p>I sometimes agononize about getting the fire started and keeping it going in the woodstove or out in the bush. There is no reason to be cold we have the technology. &nbsp;These are some of the things I keep in mind for a hot clean burning fire. &nbsp;<br>
1)Be organized: I keep piles of dry tinder, kindling, and fuel within reach. &nbsp;The tinder I get from around the woodshed or from the tips of fallen tree branches and is all smaller than my pinky finger. Kindling is smaller than my hand. &nbsp;And for fuel I like a woodstove door that is big so I don't have to cut firewood so small. &nbsp;<br>
2)There are 6 sides to a fire: the top the bottom and the four sides around, keep an eye on all of them.<br>
3)Fire needs air, fuel, and heat to burn. If you take away any of these, your fire will go out.<br>
4)Understand how your woodstove/campfire ventilates.<br>
Also I have been experimenting with non-petroleum jelly, cotton balls and one of those magnesium sticks. They work pretty good, but I still use matches inside.<br>
Thanks Umbra for this (and the past garbage) info on burnables. We are about to put a rainwater collection system in. &nbsp;With the stove pipe coming out of the roof, all those particulates and dioxins could come back to us sooner than later. We live in area that just got garbage collection service and still no recyling. &nbsp;But we are trying.</br></br></br></br></br></br></p>
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            <title>Comment #8 by Storm Dragon</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/ash-ask/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:42:35 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/ash-ask/8</guid>
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				<p><strong>Something to consider</strong></p><p>For security reasons, certain papers, (i.e. old bank statements), may be better burned than recycled. &nbsp;If you do recycle them, shred them thoroughly first.</p>
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				<p><strong>Something to consider</strong></p><p>For security reasons, certain papers, (i.e. old bank statements), may be better burned than recycled. &nbsp;If you do recycle them, shred them thoroughly first.</p>
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