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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for &#8216;Antarctic sea ice is increasing&#8217;&#8212;Yes, but ...]]></title>
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            <title>Comment #1 by wacki</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/antarctic-sea-ice-is-increasing/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 09 Nov 2006 06:49:04 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/antarctic-sea-ice-is-increasing/1</guid>
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				<p><strong>explanation....</strong></p><p><b>The reasons lie in the much larger amount of land in the northern hemisphere and the fact that the ocean's thermal inertia and ability to mix delay any temperature signal from the ongoing absorption of heat.</b></p><p>
Did they explain this on RC? &nbsp;I don't remember this being clarified. &nbsp;</p>
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				<p><strong>explanation....</strong></p><p><b>The reasons lie in the much larger amount of land in the northern hemisphere and the fact that the ocean's thermal inertia and ability to mix delay any temperature signal from the ongoing absorption of heat.</b></p><p>
Did they explain this on RC? &nbsp;I don't remember this being clarified. &nbsp;</p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by Coby Beck</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/antarctic-sea-ice-is-increasing/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 09 Nov 2006 08:06:34 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/antarctic-sea-ice-is-increasing/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>Pretty sure</strong></p><p>I'm pretty sure that this came up on RC at least a couple of times...maybe if Andrew Dessler reads this he can provide an more authoritative confirmation! 

<p>Invent a clever saying, and your name will live forever!

-- Anonymous</p></p>
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				<p><strong>Pretty sure</strong></p><p>I'm pretty sure that this came up on RC at least a couple of times...maybe if Andrew Dessler reads this he can provide an more authoritative confirmation! 

<p>Invent a clever saying, and your name will live forever!

-- Anonymous</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by wacki</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/antarctic-sea-ice-is-increasing/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 09 Nov 2006 09:32:16 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/antarctic-sea-ice-is-increasing/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>found it......<p><b>The presence of a deep and circulating ocean component is key because ocean heat uptake increases most in the Southern Ocean as the climate warms (see Gregory 2000).<p>
<a href="http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2006/01/polar-amplification/" rel="nofollow">polar &nbsp;amplification<p>
Heh, your way of explaining it is 1,000x better. &nbsp;As for the circumpolar currents, this image might come in handy:<p>
<a href="http://antarcticsun.usap.gov/oldissues2002-2003/Sun121502/images/current-b.jpg" rel="nofollow">Image link</a></p></p></a></p></b></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>found it......<p><b>The presence of a deep and circulating ocean component is key because ocean heat uptake increases most in the Southern Ocean as the climate warms (see Gregory 2000).<p>
<a href="http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2006/01/polar-amplification/" rel="nofollow">polar &nbsp;amplification<p>
Heh, your way of explaining it is 1,000x better. &nbsp;As for the circumpolar currents, this image might come in handy:<p>
<a href="http://antarcticsun.usap.gov/oldissues2002-2003/Sun121502/images/current-b.jpg" rel="nofollow">Image link</a></p></p></a></p></b></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by wacki</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/antarctic-sea-ice-is-increasing/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 09 Nov 2006 09:45:22 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/antarctic-sea-ice-is-increasing/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>crappy search engine.......</strong></p><p>I just did a search on real climate using the:</p><p>
ttp://www.realclimate.org/index.php?s="SEARCH TERM"&amp;submit=Search</p><p>
hack. &nbsp;I found the word "circumpolar" in one and only one main post. &nbsp;And that post was not about polar amplification. &nbsp;Sometimes I wonder about those guys.</p>
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				<p><strong>crappy search engine.......</strong></p><p>I just did a search on real climate using the:</p><p>
ttp://www.realclimate.org/index.php?s="SEARCH TERM"&amp;submit=Search</p><p>
hack. &nbsp;I found the word "circumpolar" in one and only one main post. &nbsp;And that post was not about polar amplification. &nbsp;Sometimes I wonder about those guys.</p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by Coby Beck</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/antarctic-sea-ice-is-increasing/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 09 Nov 2006 11:42:56 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/antarctic-sea-ice-is-increasing/5</guid>
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				<p><strong>at least they try</strong></p><p>yes, well, the gulf between scientists and the rest of us is hard for them to see! &nbsp;But kudos go to them for the fine effort RC makes, as I know you would agree.

<p>Invent a clever saying, and your name will live forever!

-- Anonymous</p></p>
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				<p><strong>at least they try</strong></p><p>yes, well, the gulf between scientists and the rest of us is hard for them to see! &nbsp;But kudos go to them for the fine effort RC makes, as I know you would agree.

<p>Invent a clever saying, and your name will live forever!

-- Anonymous</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #6 by wacki</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/antarctic-sea-ice-is-increasing/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 09 Nov 2006 12:21:51 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/antarctic-sea-ice-is-increasing/6</guid>
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				<p><strong>Re: at least they try</strong></p><p><b>yes, well, the gulf between scientists and the rest of us is hard for them to see! </b></p><p>
Heh, I am a scientist! &nbsp;I'm just in bio-tech and not climatology. &nbsp;But yes, I know what you mean. &nbsp;Heck I've given presentations that have gone over other peoples heads before. &nbsp;So I guess I'm a sinner too. &nbsp;:p</p><p>
<b>But kudos go to them for the fine effort RC makes, as I know you would agree.</b></p><p>
Yes, I would agree. &nbsp;I did not mean to insult them. &nbsp;The guys at RC are world class researchers and even heroes IMO. &nbsp;I'm just glad there are people like you. &nbsp;Although I very rarely learn anything scientific from your blog posts I frequently learn a new way of communicating and bringing clarity to a concept. &nbsp;And that is just as valuable! &nbsp;So for that I consider you a world class communicator.</p><p>
Keep up the great work.</p>
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				<p><strong>Re: at least they try</strong></p><p><b>yes, well, the gulf between scientists and the rest of us is hard for them to see! </b></p><p>
Heh, I am a scientist! &nbsp;I'm just in bio-tech and not climatology. &nbsp;But yes, I know what you mean. &nbsp;Heck I've given presentations that have gone over other peoples heads before. &nbsp;So I guess I'm a sinner too. &nbsp;:p</p><p>
<b>But kudos go to them for the fine effort RC makes, as I know you would agree.</b></p><p>
Yes, I would agree. &nbsp;I did not mean to insult them. &nbsp;The guys at RC are world class researchers and even heroes IMO. &nbsp;I'm just glad there are people like you. &nbsp;Although I very rarely learn anything scientific from your blog posts I frequently learn a new way of communicating and bringing clarity to a concept. &nbsp;And that is just as valuable! &nbsp;So for that I consider you a world class communicator.</p><p>
Keep up the great work.</p>
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            <title>Comment #7 by wacki</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/antarctic-sea-ice-is-increasing/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 09 Nov 2006 14:37:11 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/antarctic-sea-ice-is-increasing/7</guid>
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				<p><strong>clarification</strong></p><p>"Although I very rarely learn anything scientific from your blog posts"</p><p>
That's just because I read the RC forum first. :p &nbsp;</p><p>
The unintentional jerk,</p><p>
wacki</p>
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				<p><strong>clarification</strong></p><p>"Although I very rarely learn anything scientific from your blog posts"</p><p>
That's just because I read the RC forum first. :p &nbsp;</p><p>
The unintentional jerk,</p><p>
wacki</p>
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            <title>Comment #8 by Coby Beck</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/antarctic-sea-ice-is-increasing/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 09 Nov 2006 15:46:30 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/antarctic-sea-ice-is-increasing/8</guid>
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				<p><strong>don't sweat it!</strong></p><p>Not to worry, I took it to mean that. &nbsp;I won't complain, not after all the other kind words!

<p>Invent a clever saying, and your name will live forever!

-- Anonymous</p></p>
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				<p><strong>don't sweat it!</strong></p><p>Not to worry, I took it to mean that. &nbsp;I won't complain, not after all the other kind words!

<p>Invent a clever saying, and your name will live forever!

-- Anonymous</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #9 by grif</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/antarctic-sea-ice-is-increasing/</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 06 Jan 2007 17:01:20 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/antarctic-sea-ice-is-increasing/9</guid>
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				<p><strong>Ice not increasing per NASA<p>&gt;&gt; Overall, it is true that sea ice in <br>
&gt;&gt; the Antarctic is increasing.<p>
Not true, according to this recent NASA study:<br>
<a href="http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2006/mar/HQ_06085_arctic_ice.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2006/mar/HQ_06085_arctic_...<br>
</br></a></br></p></br></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Ice not increasing per NASA<p>&gt;&gt; Overall, it is true that sea ice in <br>
&gt;&gt; the Antarctic is increasing.<p>
Not true, according to this recent NASA study:<br>
<a href="http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2006/mar/HQ_06085_arctic_ice.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2006/mar/HQ_06085_arctic_...<br>
</br></a></br></p></br></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #10 by DaveR</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/antarctic-sea-ice-is-increasing/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 15 Feb 2007 08:27:52 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/antarctic-sea-ice-is-increasing/10</guid>
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				<p><strong>Re. Ice not increasing per NASA</strong></p><p>You've misunderstood the report you linked to, which is referring to total Antarctic ice mass, rather than to sea ice.</p>
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				<p><strong>Re. Ice not increasing per NASA</strong></p><p>You've misunderstood the report you linked to, which is referring to total Antarctic ice mass, rather than to sea ice.</p>
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            <title>Comment #11 by dpercy</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/antarctic-sea-ice-is-increasing/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 09:10:18 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/antarctic-sea-ice-is-increasing/11</guid>
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				<p><strong>Antarctic and Arctic Sea Ice increases</strong></p><p>Wow, the reasons the Global warming crowd through at us For more Sea Ice are just laughable. I'm a Sea Ice Forecaster in Alaska. there is at leat 33% more Antarctic Sea Ice than March 3, 2007. There was also an increase in 2007 from 2006 and maybe a minor one from 2005 to 2006. These so called climo experts say its due to warmer temps and water? Thats like telling me I'm cold because someone turned up the heat, or, my pop froze in the refrig beause I turned up the heat. How stupid do you think we are? The FACT is its getting colder. Antarctic cooling always begins first. You know the warmest earth year was 1998, 10 years ago. Maybe we have peaked the warming that began in the late 70s and now the earth is cooling. My gosh the Climo researchers might lose grant money over this. TWO more FACTS, Temperature rises always LEAD CO2 increases. Arctic sea Ice rebounded this winter to levels not seen, in some areas such as Iceland, in more than 40 years.</p>
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				<p><strong>Antarctic and Arctic Sea Ice increases</strong></p><p>Wow, the reasons the Global warming crowd through at us For more Sea Ice are just laughable. I'm a Sea Ice Forecaster in Alaska. there is at leat 33% more Antarctic Sea Ice than March 3, 2007. There was also an increase in 2007 from 2006 and maybe a minor one from 2005 to 2006. These so called climo experts say its due to warmer temps and water? Thats like telling me I'm cold because someone turned up the heat, or, my pop froze in the refrig beause I turned up the heat. How stupid do you think we are? The FACT is its getting colder. Antarctic cooling always begins first. You know the warmest earth year was 1998, 10 years ago. Maybe we have peaked the warming that began in the late 70s and now the earth is cooling. My gosh the Climo researchers might lose grant money over this. TWO more FACTS, Temperature rises always LEAD CO2 increases. Arctic sea Ice rebounded this winter to levels not seen, in some areas such as Iceland, in more than 40 years.</p>
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            <title>Comment #12 by dpercy</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/antarctic-sea-ice-is-increasing/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 09:22:45 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/antarctic-sea-ice-is-increasing/12</guid>
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				<p><strong>Total Ice vs Sea Ice</strong></p><p>Sea Ice increases first, then Glacial, depending on precipitation. There is also a lag time from the warming to the cooling for ice increases. The recent warming ended in August 2005 and the cooling will increase further after about 7 to 10 years. Care to make a wager?</p>
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				<p><strong>Total Ice vs Sea Ice</strong></p><p>Sea Ice increases first, then Glacial, depending on precipitation. There is also a lag time from the warming to the cooling for ice increases. The recent warming ended in August 2005 and the cooling will increase further after about 7 to 10 years. Care to make a wager?</p>
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            <title>Comment #13 by Pangolin</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/antarctic-sea-ice-is-increasing/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 11:15:17 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/antarctic-sea-ice-is-increasing/13</guid>
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				<p><strong>Thermohaline oscillation?<p>I typed the following hypothesis before I googled but there seems to be partial validation <a href="http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v408/n6813/full/408634a0.html;jsessionid=96CA671B56184FFE6560AF817E2729C1" rel="nofollow">here and <a href="http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/1993/92GL02920.shtml" rel="nofollow">here.<p>
The situation with any temporary increase in Antarctic sea ice could be the result of a slowdown of thermohaline circulation. This is just a wild-ass guess but it would be possible for slowed thermal transport to result in local cooling.<p>
While the amount of heat in the system is increased the amount available locally is always variable. Slowed thermohaline transfer of heat southwards from the tropics could result in temporary increases in sea ice cover while total systemic heat increases.<p>
As mixing with the circumpolar current with the south pacific picks up warmer pacific waters this may reverse drastically. As on a smaller scale adding heat to one end of a fluid system could result in harmonic oscillation. <p>
It's a very big system and the oscillation period could years but such oscillation would increase the thermal transport in the long run. 

<p><a href="http://putcarbonback.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">Put  the Carbon Back</a></p></p></p></p></p></a></a></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Thermohaline oscillation?<p>I typed the following hypothesis before I googled but there seems to be partial validation <a href="http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v408/n6813/full/408634a0.html;jsessionid=96CA671B56184FFE6560AF817E2729C1" rel="nofollow">here and <a href="http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/1993/92GL02920.shtml" rel="nofollow">here.<p>
The situation with any temporary increase in Antarctic sea ice could be the result of a slowdown of thermohaline circulation. This is just a wild-ass guess but it would be possible for slowed thermal transport to result in local cooling.<p>
While the amount of heat in the system is increased the amount available locally is always variable. Slowed thermohaline transfer of heat southwards from the tropics could result in temporary increases in sea ice cover while total systemic heat increases.<p>
As mixing with the circumpolar current with the south pacific picks up warmer pacific waters this may reverse drastically. As on a smaller scale adding heat to one end of a fluid system could result in harmonic oscillation. <p>
It's a very big system and the oscillation period could years but such oscillation would increase the thermal transport in the long run. 

<p><a href="http://putcarbonback.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">Put  the Carbon Back</a></p></p></p></p></p></a></a></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #14 by rcglinsk</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/antarctic-sea-ice-is-increasing/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 24 Mar 2008 05:44:25 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/antarctic-sea-ice-is-increasing/14</guid>
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				<p><strong>Hooray!  Melt Arctic Melt!</strong></p><p>Hooray for the melting of the Arctic! &nbsp;I call first dibs on the undersea oil and natural gas reserves. &nbsp;Also, I'm selling futures on good Newfoundland coastal spots for ports and fisheries. &nbsp;You all are just so confident the Arctic is going to melt. &nbsp;I wish I could share your optomism, but the future is hard to predict, and I'm cynical by nature. &nbsp; &nbsp; </p>
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				<p><strong>Hooray!  Melt Arctic Melt!</strong></p><p>Hooray for the melting of the Arctic! &nbsp;I call first dibs on the undersea oil and natural gas reserves. &nbsp;Also, I'm selling futures on good Newfoundland coastal spots for ports and fisheries. &nbsp;You all are just so confident the Arctic is going to melt. &nbsp;I wish I could share your optomism, but the future is hard to predict, and I'm cynical by nature. &nbsp; &nbsp; </p>
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