<![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Clean coal salesman Joe Lucas shucks and jives for NPR]]> Grist Comment Feed en Comment #1 by Kit Stolz http://www.grist.org/article/accce-in-the-hole/ Fri, 05 Dec 2008 05:13:48 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/accce-in-the-hole/1 Why Feel Bad for a Coal Spokesperson?

He's getting paid to, er, spin, and probably a lot. He obviously has no conscience. Apparently he tap-danced rings around Gore, Siegel and other dull reality-based folks worried about our future on the planet. Maybe I'm just grumpy, but sorry for him because he has to shovel the ol' b.s.? Uh, no.

]]> Why Feel Bad for a Coal Spokesperson?

He's getting paid to, er, spin, and probably a lot. He obviously has no conscience. Apparently he tap-danced rings around Gore, Siegel and other dull reality-based folks worried about our future on the planet. Maybe I'm just grumpy, but sorry for him because he has to shovel the ol' b.s.? Uh, no.

]]> Comment #2 by jeffgreen11 http://www.grist.org/article/accce-in-the-hole/ Fri, 05 Dec 2008 11:04:57 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/accce-in-the-hole/2 Loss of reason

As I talk with people online about global warming, I find that reason isn't needed by deniers to make their point. I had one guy write a private note to me saying its like seeing a bad acid trip. Its a way of power. I don't have to listen to reason and therefore I don't have to change. By being unresonable I can keep my win of some kind.

This is how solid the science is. The case has been made very well and there's nowhere for them to turn to. This is the last stand without admitting defeat. How much longer this goes on, who knows, but I think we are in the last stage of denial to get their way with electric power people. There may be quite a bit more to come down the road.

]]> Loss of reason

As I talk with people online about global warming, I find that reason isn't needed by deniers to make their point. I had one guy write a private note to me saying its like seeing a bad acid trip. Its a way of power. I don't have to listen to reason and therefore I don't have to change. By being unresonable I can keep my win of some kind.

This is how solid the science is. The case has been made very well and there's nowhere for them to turn to. This is the last stand without admitting defeat. How much longer this goes on, who knows, but I think we are in the last stage of denial to get their way with electric power people. There may be quite a bit more to come down the road.

]]> Comment #3 by johnthetreehugger http://www.grist.org/article/accce-in-the-hole/ Sat, 06 Dec 2008 01:54:42 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/accce-in-the-hole/3 full cycle assessment

once again, another opportunity lost to talk about the complete cycle of coal - from the mining to the burning to the disposal of the ash - it will NEVER be clean.

Thanks Al, your home state is suffering the depredations of strip mining and you can't mention that?

and even if someone miraculously invents sequestration technology tomorrow...

the complete and utter devestation wrought by mountaintop removal and strip mining means that coal will never be clean.

thanks for the great take on it tho, Grist. i heard the piece, got pissed, wrote NPR and the Reality Coalition. y'all made me chuckle. Thanks.

]]> full cycle assessment

once again, another opportunity lost to talk about the complete cycle of coal - from the mining to the burning to the disposal of the ash - it will NEVER be clean.

Thanks Al, your home state is suffering the depredations of strip mining and you can't mention that?

and even if someone miraculously invents sequestration technology tomorrow...

the complete and utter devestation wrought by mountaintop removal and strip mining means that coal will never be clean.

thanks for the great take on it tho, Grist. i heard the piece, got pissed, wrote NPR and the Reality Coalition. y'all made me chuckle. Thanks.

]]> Comment #4 by Wolfy http://www.grist.org/article/accce-in-the-hole/ Sat, 06 Dec 2008 09:26:47 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/accce-in-the-hole/4 Now showing in the Center Ring...

Ladies and Gentlemen, Congressmen of all States, focus your attention on Clean Coal in the center ring.  It will wow you with its utter lack of material and non-existence.  Throw your money at it and watch it dance.  

Wow, quite a show! In Ring 2 is The Big Three.  Watch how they tap-dance around congressional inquiry and make grand, audacious (and false) promises.  We'll all be driving cars that run on air, last forever, and cost $25.

And in Ring 3 is Big Ag; they're making more money than dirt but they still need you to pay them not to plant crops.  Watch how they parade around holding out their empty pockets.

What a circus big coal/three/ag has made of our legislative bodies.  W and his cronies have sure made a mess of a already screwed-up system.  Lets hope Obama can tackle the Big Congressional Corporations and take our country back!  

Most times for evil to win it doesn't take a large, horrible event; it just takes a lot of people each doing just a little bad. AOOOOOOooooooooo.........

]]> Now showing in the Center Ring...

Ladies and Gentlemen, Congressmen of all States, focus your attention on Clean Coal in the center ring.  It will wow you with its utter lack of material and non-existence.  Throw your money at it and watch it dance.  

Wow, quite a show! In Ring 2 is The Big Three.  Watch how they tap-dance around congressional inquiry and make grand, audacious (and false) promises.  We'll all be driving cars that run on air, last forever, and cost $25.

And in Ring 3 is Big Ag; they're making more money than dirt but they still need you to pay them not to plant crops.  Watch how they parade around holding out their empty pockets.

What a circus big coal/three/ag has made of our legislative bodies.  W and his cronies have sure made a mess of a already screwed-up system.  Lets hope Obama can tackle the Big Congressional Corporations and take our country back!  

Most times for evil to win it doesn't take a large, horrible event; it just takes a lot of people each doing just a little bad. AOOOOOOooooooooo.........

]]> Comment #5 by vakibs http://www.grist.org/article/accce-in-the-hole/ Sun, 07 Dec 2008 00:06:59 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/accce-in-the-hole/5 American - synonym for stupid ?

It is time that American people took offense to the way the word "American" is getting abused.

That's what they described. When I look at what a majority of Americans say is clean coal, the fact that we're using technology today to reduce the emission of hazardous air pollutants, and the fact that we will be able to over the next ten years to begin to bring technologies into the marketplace to capture and store carbon, that's what the American people believe that clean coal is.

Nationalistic sentiment never fails to rouse emotions from deep underneath. Spin-doctors like ACCCE are maximizing the use of this sentiment, to delay the shutting down of coal plants.

Let's think in terms of eco-dollars.

]]> American - synonym for stupid ?

It is time that American people took offense to the way the word "American" is getting abused.

That's what they described. When I look at what a majority of Americans say is clean coal, the fact that we're using technology today to reduce the emission of hazardous air pollutants, and the fact that we will be able to over the next ten years to begin to bring technologies into the marketplace to capture and store carbon, that's what the American people believe that clean coal is.

Nationalistic sentiment never fails to rouse emotions from deep underneath. Spin-doctors like ACCCE are maximizing the use of this sentiment, to delay the shutting down of coal plants.

Let's think in terms of eco-dollars.

]]> Comment #6 by mwildfire http://www.grist.org/article/accce-in-the-hole/ Sun, 07 Dec 2008 01:28:09 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/accce-in-the-hole/6 clean coal, dehydrated water, violence-free war

Here in WV the industry is working overtime on its propaganda campaign, which includes billboards in Charleston and elsewhere proclaiming "Clean, carbon-neutral coal". A friend called the guy at Walker Machinery, which paid for the billboards (WM lives mainly off selling heavy equipment for mountaintop removal coal mining). My friend asked how coal could be "carbon neutral" when coal is, um, pure carbon (not quite pure--there is a certain amount of mercury etc). The response was similar to Lucas'--that he "just wanted to get people thinking about coal technology."
 The other game here is the word "sequestration". It is actually a magic word, and here I gave it to you for free. All you have to do is wave that magic wand, or word, around and the carbon dioxide emitted by coal goes away! Or so the industry hopes. There is little evidence of anyone actually TRYING sequestration, because it's obviously impractical and too expensive to do on the scale needed. But the hope is that enough steer manure spread all over the media, together with enough payoffs to politicians, will enable them to get a bunch of plants built before they are stopped, and then these plants will be grandfathered like most of the 1700 coal-fired plants still spewing the OTHER pollutants Lucas talked about. I notice they bankrolled both conventions, and election coverage--wonder if they're contributing to the inaugural festivies. So far it looks like Obama's appointments signal no change to a foreign policy based on killing and bombing somebody somewhere every day of every year, and his economic advisor appointments signal economic policy based on privileging the "needs" of the privileged. But his appointments in the environmental realm look much more promising--and that's bad news for King Coal.

]]> clean coal, dehydrated water, violence-free war

Here in WV the industry is working overtime on its propaganda campaign, which includes billboards in Charleston and elsewhere proclaiming "Clean, carbon-neutral coal". A friend called the guy at Walker Machinery, which paid for the billboards (WM lives mainly off selling heavy equipment for mountaintop removal coal mining). My friend asked how coal could be "carbon neutral" when coal is, um, pure carbon (not quite pure--there is a certain amount of mercury etc). The response was similar to Lucas'--that he "just wanted to get people thinking about coal technology."
 The other game here is the word "sequestration". It is actually a magic word, and here I gave it to you for free. All you have to do is wave that magic wand, or word, around and the carbon dioxide emitted by coal goes away! Or so the industry hopes. There is little evidence of anyone actually TRYING sequestration, because it's obviously impractical and too expensive to do on the scale needed. But the hope is that enough steer manure spread all over the media, together with enough payoffs to politicians, will enable them to get a bunch of plants built before they are stopped, and then these plants will be grandfathered like most of the 1700 coal-fired plants still spewing the OTHER pollutants Lucas talked about. I notice they bankrolled both conventions, and election coverage--wonder if they're contributing to the inaugural festivies. So far it looks like Obama's appointments signal no change to a foreign policy based on killing and bombing somebody somewhere every day of every year, and his economic advisor appointments signal economic policy based on privileging the "needs" of the privileged. But his appointments in the environmental realm look much more promising--and that's bad news for King Coal.

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