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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Even more numbers to illuminate the vast ocean]]></title>
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            <title>Comment #1 by Delay And Deny</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/a-sea-of-stats/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2008 03:08:31 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/a-sea-of-stats/1</guid>
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				<p><strong>Think Globally, Stat Locally<p>I took a look at the Highs and Lows for the last decade in Kent, WA 98030 (East Hill).<p>
<a href="http://weather.yahoo.com/climo/USWA0206_f.html" rel="nofollow">http://weather.yahoo.com/climo/USWA0206_f.html<p>
50s&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 4<br>
60s&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1<br>
70s&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 3&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 2<br>
80s&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 5&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 5<br>
90s&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 0<br>
00s&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 0&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 0<p>
Notice the most extreme weather occurred during the 1980s. &nbsp;This would have been the transition between the mini-cool phase and the return to the warming trend.<p>
But after that, just a lot more moderation to the weather....<br>
</br></p></p></br></br></br></br></br></p></a></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Think Globally, Stat Locally<p>I took a look at the Highs and Lows for the last decade in Kent, WA 98030 (East Hill).<p>
<a href="http://weather.yahoo.com/climo/USWA0206_f.html" rel="nofollow">http://weather.yahoo.com/climo/USWA0206_f.html<p>
50s&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 4<br>
60s&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1<br>
70s&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 3&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 2<br>
80s&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 5&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 5<br>
90s&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 0<br>
00s&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 0&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 0<p>
Notice the most extreme weather occurred during the 1980s. &nbsp;This would have been the transition between the mini-cool phase and the return to the warming trend.<p>
But after that, just a lot more moderation to the weather....<br>
</br></p></p></br></br></br></br></br></p></a></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by Tasermons Partner</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/a-sea-of-stats/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2008 04:55:21 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/a-sea-of-stats/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>Uh, that's nice, but...</strong></p><p>But after that, just a lot more moderation to the weather....</p><p>
This report looks at all threats to the oceans, not just climate change.</p><p>
Also, I can't help but notice that those figures are for Kent, Washington...and <strong>just</strong> Kent Washington. &nbsp;No where else. &nbsp;I wouldn't take the data from one small town (which was air temperature data and not water temperature data, by the way) as an indicator as to what is happenin' on the planet as a whole.</p><p>
'Specailly considerin' that the town of Kent isn't located by the ocean and is landlocked.</p><p>
I really don't see the relationship...why is the weather in Kent so interestin' to this article?<br>
</br></p>
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				<p><strong>Uh, that's nice, but...</strong></p><p>But after that, just a lot more moderation to the weather....</p><p>
This report looks at all threats to the oceans, not just climate change.</p><p>
Also, I can't help but notice that those figures are for Kent, Washington...and <strong>just</strong> Kent Washington. &nbsp;No where else. &nbsp;I wouldn't take the data from one small town (which was air temperature data and not water temperature data, by the way) as an indicator as to what is happenin' on the planet as a whole.</p><p>
'Specailly considerin' that the town of Kent isn't located by the ocean and is landlocked.</p><p>
I really don't see the relationship...why is the weather in Kent so interestin' to this article?<br>
</br></p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by Sam Wells</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/a-sea-of-stats/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2008 06:10:29 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/a-sea-of-stats/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>Good article Andrew</strong></p><p>Many people think of factory ships way out at sea but the fact is that 90% of the fishing, commercial and recreational, is within 30 miles of the coast. &nbsp;About 90 percent of these fishing boats are at or less than 30 feet long. In terms of tonnage and value of landings, larger boats, a few of them, have a disproportionate share of the catch, of course, such as the classic 70-80 foot trawler. The important point is that most fishing is done on the continental shelf "slope waters" in less than 100 fathoms (600 feet). And that's the reason why inland water pollution affects the oceans and fisheries so intensely. &nbsp;</p><p>
Kill the bays off and you won't have a single shrimp marketable in the ocean, for example. White and brown shrimp must breed in the inland back-bays with sufficient freshwater inflows (not sure about the Florida royal red shrimp). </p><p>
Another important concept is riverine flows out to sea. The Amazon, Mississippi, Hudson, Rio Grand, and other large river systems have canyons that extend out for hundreds of miles but the plume of polluted water hugs amazingly close to the coast. &nbsp;For example the Mississippi "dead zone" extends in a long narrow band along the coast within 30 miles, and is not a huge blob way out at sea. That's a killer situation ... some blackwater way out in the middle of the Gulf wouldn't have such horrendous impacts.</p><p>
Drought and growing development will only serve to reduce the amount of freshwater to these bay "nursery" systems. Warming waters has also been thought to be associated with massive lobster mortalities in Connecticut, perhaps a sign of climate change. It's bad, man. &nbsp;

<p>Onward through the fog</p></p>
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				<p><strong>Good article Andrew</strong></p><p>Many people think of factory ships way out at sea but the fact is that 90% of the fishing, commercial and recreational, is within 30 miles of the coast. &nbsp;About 90 percent of these fishing boats are at or less than 30 feet long. In terms of tonnage and value of landings, larger boats, a few of them, have a disproportionate share of the catch, of course, such as the classic 70-80 foot trawler. The important point is that most fishing is done on the continental shelf "slope waters" in less than 100 fathoms (600 feet). And that's the reason why inland water pollution affects the oceans and fisheries so intensely. &nbsp;</p><p>
Kill the bays off and you won't have a single shrimp marketable in the ocean, for example. White and brown shrimp must breed in the inland back-bays with sufficient freshwater inflows (not sure about the Florida royal red shrimp). </p><p>
Another important concept is riverine flows out to sea. The Amazon, Mississippi, Hudson, Rio Grand, and other large river systems have canyons that extend out for hundreds of miles but the plume of polluted water hugs amazingly close to the coast. &nbsp;For example the Mississippi "dead zone" extends in a long narrow band along the coast within 30 miles, and is not a huge blob way out at sea. That's a killer situation ... some blackwater way out in the middle of the Gulf wouldn't have such horrendous impacts.</p><p>
Drought and growing development will only serve to reduce the amount of freshwater to these bay "nursery" systems. Warming waters has also been thought to be associated with massive lobster mortalities in Connecticut, perhaps a sign of climate change. It's bad, man. &nbsp;

<p>Onward through the fog</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by Delay And Deny</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/a-sea-of-stats/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2008 06:27:51 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/a-sea-of-stats/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>Ash Shamu<p><br>
Specailly considerin' that the town of Kent isn't located by the ocean and is landlocked.<p>
Ok, how about San Diego:<p>
<a href="http://weather.yahoo.com/climo/USCA0982_f.html" rel="nofollow">http://weather.yahoo.com/climo/USCA0982_f.html<p>
30s&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 3<br>
40s&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 0&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 5<br>
50s&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 3&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 0<br>
60s&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 3&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1<br>
70s&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 2<br>
80s&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1<br>
90s&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 0<br>
00s&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 0&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 0<p>
Looks like the distribution of "extreme weather" is more towards the 1950s for this oceanside city...<p>
The last few decades hardly matter at all.<br>
</br></p></p></br></br></br></br></br></br></br></p></a></p></p></br></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Ash Shamu<p><br>
Specailly considerin' that the town of Kent isn't located by the ocean and is landlocked.<p>
Ok, how about San Diego:<p>
<a href="http://weather.yahoo.com/climo/USCA0982_f.html" rel="nofollow">http://weather.yahoo.com/climo/USCA0982_f.html<p>
30s&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 3<br>
40s&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 0&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 5<br>
50s&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 3&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 0<br>
60s&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 3&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1<br>
70s&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 2<br>
80s&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1<br>
90s&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 0<br>
00s&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 0&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 0<p>
Looks like the distribution of "extreme weather" is more towards the 1950s for this oceanside city...<p>
The last few decades hardly matter at all.<br>
</br></p></p></br></br></br></br></br></br></br></p></a></p></p></br></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by Delay And Deny</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/a-sea-of-stats/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2008 06:31:11 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/a-sea-of-stats/5</guid>
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				<p><strong>Captain John Silver Ain't No Malthusian!</strong></p><p><br>
Minimum percentage of major fishing grounds that could be affected by climate change: 75</p><p>
Please. &nbsp;Name me one major fishing ground that has reduced it's harvest because of warmer weather.</p><p>
Hawaii is one of the richest fishing grounds in the world and it's tropical!</br></p>
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				<p><strong>Captain John Silver Ain't No Malthusian!</strong></p><p><br>
Minimum percentage of major fishing grounds that could be affected by climate change: 75</p><p>
Please. &nbsp;Name me one major fishing ground that has reduced it's harvest because of warmer weather.</p><p>
Hawaii is one of the richest fishing grounds in the world and it's tropical!</br></p>
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            <title>Comment #6 by Tasermons Partner</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/a-sea-of-stats/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2008 09:46:12 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/a-sea-of-stats/6</guid>
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				<p><strong>San Diego and Hawaii...</strong></p><p>Uh, <strong>jabailo</strong>, once again, I wouldn't use just <strong>one</strong> city as an indicator of a worldwide event.</p><p>
That's like pullin' a single guy outta a crowd, who just so happens to be Asian, and then assumin' that all people are Asian.</p><p>
You'll need a worldwide listing of coastal temperatures to unveil any real pattern. &nbsp;Not just two places (one not even close to the water) that're on the same coastline.</p><p>
Also, once again, that's average air temperatures, not water temperatures, which can vary significantly from air temperatures. </p><p>
Hawaii is one of the richest fishing grounds in the world and it's tropical!</p><p>
<strong>jabailo</strong>, different fish are adapted to different environmental conditions...and yes, there are different environments, even under water.</p><p>
Why do ya think there aren't any trout or salmon in Hawaii? &nbsp;They aren't adapted for warmer waters. &nbsp;Likewise, many species of fish (though not all) do well in water that is a certain salinity, depth, light level, temperature, nutrient count and kind, etc. &nbsp;</p><p>
Even tropical fish generally only like a certain temperature range (trust me on this, I worked at an aquarium theme park for several years). &nbsp;If it gets too hot or too cold, they won't be productive, and in some cases, they die.<br>
</br></p>
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				<p><strong>San Diego and Hawaii...</strong></p><p>Uh, <strong>jabailo</strong>, once again, I wouldn't use just <strong>one</strong> city as an indicator of a worldwide event.</p><p>
That's like pullin' a single guy outta a crowd, who just so happens to be Asian, and then assumin' that all people are Asian.</p><p>
You'll need a worldwide listing of coastal temperatures to unveil any real pattern. &nbsp;Not just two places (one not even close to the water) that're on the same coastline.</p><p>
Also, once again, that's average air temperatures, not water temperatures, which can vary significantly from air temperatures. </p><p>
Hawaii is one of the richest fishing grounds in the world and it's tropical!</p><p>
<strong>jabailo</strong>, different fish are adapted to different environmental conditions...and yes, there are different environments, even under water.</p><p>
Why do ya think there aren't any trout or salmon in Hawaii? &nbsp;They aren't adapted for warmer waters. &nbsp;Likewise, many species of fish (though not all) do well in water that is a certain salinity, depth, light level, temperature, nutrient count and kind, etc. &nbsp;</p><p>
Even tropical fish generally only like a certain temperature range (trust me on this, I worked at an aquarium theme park for several years). &nbsp;If it gets too hot or too cold, they won't be productive, and in some cases, they die.<br>
</br></p>
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            <title>Comment #7 by Sam Wells</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/a-sea-of-stats/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2008 09:46:43 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/a-sea-of-stats/7</guid>
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				<p><strong>Huh?</strong></p><p>I don't know if any of the claims made in the referring article have one iota of scientific analysis or statistics, but some fisheries have been mightily impacted by warming waters and increased carbonic acid inputs. &nbsp;To prove that with numbers might take several years and a few million bucks, using independent sources of data. &nbsp;</p><p>
But when I hear of jumbo squid in Alaska or Portuguese Man-O-War jellyfish off New England I have to pause and say something truly weird is happening and we don't know what it is. </p><p>
Mostly, we killed off the fishing by catching too many, which applies to Hawaii as much as anywhere. &nbsp;The extent to which climate change makes it worse (or better) is extremely difficult to tease out of the data. &nbsp;-sam

<p>Onward through the fog</p></p>
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				<p><strong>Huh?</strong></p><p>I don't know if any of the claims made in the referring article have one iota of scientific analysis or statistics, but some fisheries have been mightily impacted by warming waters and increased carbonic acid inputs. &nbsp;To prove that with numbers might take several years and a few million bucks, using independent sources of data. &nbsp;</p><p>
But when I hear of jumbo squid in Alaska or Portuguese Man-O-War jellyfish off New England I have to pause and say something truly weird is happening and we don't know what it is. </p><p>
Mostly, we killed off the fishing by catching too many, which applies to Hawaii as much as anywhere. &nbsp;The extent to which climate change makes it worse (or better) is extremely difficult to tease out of the data. &nbsp;-sam

<p>Onward through the fog</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #8 by Tasermons Partner</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/a-sea-of-stats/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2008 09:57:48 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/a-sea-of-stats/8</guid>
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				<p><strong>Also...</strong></p><p>...a large reason why Hawaii's waters support such an abundance of fish is 'cause of Hawaii' vast expanses of coral reefs. &nbsp;And coral reefs are very sensitive to changes in temperature and water depth.</p><p>
Death of coral reefs due to climate change could cause a massive collapse for many fisheries.</p>
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				<p><strong>Also...</strong></p><p>...a large reason why Hawaii's waters support such an abundance of fish is 'cause of Hawaii' vast expanses of coral reefs. &nbsp;And coral reefs are very sensitive to changes in temperature and water depth.</p><p>
Death of coral reefs due to climate change could cause a massive collapse for many fisheries.</p>
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            <title>Comment #9 by Delay And Deny</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/a-sea-of-stats/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 04:57:15 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/a-sea-of-stats/9</guid>
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				<p><strong>Eating Ahi with Don Ho</strong></p><p><br>
Death of coral reefs due to climate change could cause a massive collapse for many fisheries.</p><p>
Well, since you scaremongers have been telling us about global warming since 1965, you'd think Hawaii would have no fish by now then...</p><p>
But yet it's a thriving multibillion dollar industry!</br></p>
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				<p><strong>Eating Ahi with Don Ho</strong></p><p><br>
Death of coral reefs due to climate change could cause a massive collapse for many fisheries.</p><p>
Well, since you scaremongers have been telling us about global warming since 1965, you'd think Hawaii would have no fish by now then...</p><p>
But yet it's a thriving multibillion dollar industry!</br></p>
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            <title>Comment #10 by Tasermons Partner</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/a-sea-of-stats/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 10:25:38 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/a-sea-of-stats/10</guid>
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				<p><strong>Un, once again, no...</strong></p><p>Well, since you scaremongers have been telling us about global warming since 1965, you'd think Hawaii would have no fish by now then...</p><p>
But yet it's a thriving multibillion dollar industry!</p><p>
Uh, <strong>jabilio</strong>, Hawaii's fisheries have actually diminished significantly in the past few decades (from a variety of factors), and the fishing industry there is shrinking, not growing, in large part due to declines of fishing stocks.</p>
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				<p><strong>Un, once again, no...</strong></p><p>Well, since you scaremongers have been telling us about global warming since 1965, you'd think Hawaii would have no fish by now then...</p><p>
But yet it's a thriving multibillion dollar industry!</p><p>
Uh, <strong>jabilio</strong>, Hawaii's fisheries have actually diminished significantly in the past few decades (from a variety of factors), and the fishing industry there is shrinking, not growing, in large part due to declines of fishing stocks.</p>
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