<![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Imagine: charging polluters to encourage the others!]]> Grist Comment Feed en Comment #1 by Ron Steenblik http://www.grist.org/article/a-refreshing-change-of-pace-sensible-policy/ Sun, 29 Apr 2007 17:16:21 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/a-refreshing-change-of-pace-sensible-policy/1 "Red" Ken and London

I was in London earlier this month -- for the first time in 13 years -- and can confirm that it has been transformed. As the article you quote describes, private vehicle use seems to have been reduced (compared with what it was like when I lived there in the late 1980s), and the frequency of bus service is phenomenal. My family and I stayed in a hotel located on what was a minor through-street near the British Museum, yet the buses trundled by at a rate of about one every 30 seconds. London's tube (underground, metro) system is still rather antiquated, but I understand that the authorities are working to improve it. Meanwhile, many more people ride around by bicycle than I recall from the '80s, and central London is now served by hundreds of pedicabs -- in addition to the traditional, motorized ones.

What makes these developments personally interesting to me is the evergreen presence of "Red" Ken Livingstone, who was leader of the Greater London Council (GLC) when I lived in London (until the GLC was formally abolished by Margaret Thatcher, at midnight on 31 March 1986). Livingston has always been a political maverick, combining a penchant for creating controversy in international affairs with a passion for improving London's transit. His most enduring legacy will no doubt be in respect to the latter.

]]> "Red" Ken and London

I was in London earlier this month -- for the first time in 13 years -- and can confirm that it has been transformed. As the article you quote describes, private vehicle use seems to have been reduced (compared with what it was like when I lived there in the late 1980s), and the frequency of bus service is phenomenal. My family and I stayed in a hotel located on what was a minor through-street near the British Museum, yet the buses trundled by at a rate of about one every 30 seconds. London's tube (underground, metro) system is still rather antiquated, but I understand that the authorities are working to improve it. Meanwhile, many more people ride around by bicycle than I recall from the '80s, and central London is now served by hundreds of pedicabs -- in addition to the traditional, motorized ones.

What makes these developments personally interesting to me is the evergreen presence of "Red" Ken Livingstone, who was leader of the Greater London Council (GLC) when I lived in London (until the GLC was formally abolished by Margaret Thatcher, at midnight on 31 March 1986). Livingston has always been a political maverick, combining a penchant for creating controversy in international affairs with a passion for improving London's transit. His most enduring legacy will no doubt be in respect to the latter.

]]> Comment #2 by amazingdrx http://www.grist.org/article/a-refreshing-change-of-pace-sensible-policy/ Sun, 29 Apr 2007 23:07:31 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/a-refreshing-change-of-pace-sensible-policy/2 Zero emission

No charge for electric cars?  Say hello to congestion once again.  

Given inexpensive, green driving with electric cars (backed up with a biofuel generator), the public will resume driving as many miles as they can afford, everywhere they can.

Those who hate cars will eventually have to tax and fee them out of existence.  So that is what they want to do right now, instead of moving to electric cars (I'm not calling them plugin hybrids anymore, it's self defeating).  Their agenda will hand elections to the gas guzzlers as our green pols are swiftboated as car haters by asociation.

Beware the puritanical car haters, they will delay clean, green cars as long as they can.  They know electric cars will defeat their obsession with eliminating cars altogether.

How much of the cash collected from the London plan is going to bike trails, bike racks on trains and buses, and electric assited bikes?  I'm betting zero.  You can tout biking but politicians aren't funding it.

Fund biking in conjunction with buses and trains and electric cars or admit you are a car hating, never biking puritan.  Sorry we don't like puritans.  Right or left wing.  Puritan Naderites take notice, you were the crew that got US this chimp we are suffering now.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

]]> Zero emission

No charge for electric cars?  Say hello to congestion once again.  

Given inexpensive, green driving with electric cars (backed up with a biofuel generator), the public will resume driving as many miles as they can afford, everywhere they can.

Those who hate cars will eventually have to tax and fee them out of existence.  So that is what they want to do right now, instead of moving to electric cars (I'm not calling them plugin hybrids anymore, it's self defeating).  Their agenda will hand elections to the gas guzzlers as our green pols are swiftboated as car haters by asociation.

Beware the puritanical car haters, they will delay clean, green cars as long as they can.  They know electric cars will defeat their obsession with eliminating cars altogether.

How much of the cash collected from the London plan is going to bike trails, bike racks on trains and buses, and electric assited bikes?  I'm betting zero.  You can tout biking but politicians aren't funding it.

Fund biking in conjunction with buses and trains and electric cars or admit you are a car hating, never biking puritan.  Sorry we don't like puritans.  Right or left wing.  Puritan Naderites take notice, you were the crew that got US this chimp we are suffering now.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

]]> Comment #3 by Werdna http://www.grist.org/article/a-refreshing-change-of-pace-sensible-policy/ Mon, 30 Apr 2007 03:02:37 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/a-refreshing-change-of-pace-sensible-policy/3 Congestion pricing needs options

As a native New Yorker currently living in Vancouver, BC, I am really looking forward to congestion pricing in NYC.  It will be a great thing for the city.

However, a similar proposal comes up for Vancouver every once in a while.  Here, I think it will fail, or at least it won't be an immediate success.

The reason is that as Livingstone mentions, reducing car traffic relies on having other options.  In Vancouver, we have great transit within the city, but the suburbs have abysmal public transit.  Without significant increase in transit all congestion pricing would do is piss off people who live in the boonies.  They still have to drive and now they have to pay more.

Andrew Eisenberg
The gateway project is wrong---http://www.liveableregion.ca/


]]> Congestion pricing needs options

As a native New Yorker currently living in Vancouver, BC, I am really looking forward to congestion pricing in NYC.  It will be a great thing for the city.

However, a similar proposal comes up for Vancouver every once in a while.  Here, I think it will fail, or at least it won't be an immediate success.

The reason is that as Livingstone mentions, reducing car traffic relies on having other options.  In Vancouver, we have great transit within the city, but the suburbs have abysmal public transit.  Without significant increase in transit all congestion pricing would do is piss off people who live in the boonies.  They still have to drive and now they have to pay more.

Andrew Eisenberg
The gateway project is wrong---http://www.liveableregion.ca/


]]> Comment #4 by A Siegel http://www.grist.org/article/a-refreshing-change-of-pace-sensible-policy/ Mon, 30 Apr 2007 05:05:20 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/a-refreshing-change-of-pace-sensible-policy/4 Hadn't seen statistics before ...

Almost surprised that traffic was not down further.  Very interesting the (important) link between instrature work. Basically, most major cities around the world are sitting on top of major infrastructure repair / renovation / replacement requirements. If cars can be taken off the road, perhaps this will speed the path to more efficient water/sewage system implementation.

And, the idea of a graduated fee is great -- quite low for EVs, a little more for PHEVs, up through into America's favorite SUV GHG-belchers.  And, related to congestion, if EV/PHEVs penetrate enough, move all the fees up a little.

Seems to me that Washington, DC, should seek to impose a congestion fee ...

there is good public transport into the city (Metro rail & bus)

traffic congestion is a mess

pollution from automobile transport is a serious regional problem

High-percentage of vehicles entering city through relatively few nodes (bridges from VA, etc ..>)

And, well, this is a way for the city to sock it to the suburbanites who work in DC but don't pay any taxes.

Doubtful Congress will let it through but this would be a great step forward for DC, the region, and the nation.

]]> Hadn't seen statistics before ...

Almost surprised that traffic was not down further.  Very interesting the (important) link between instrature work. Basically, most major cities around the world are sitting on top of major infrastructure repair / renovation / replacement requirements. If cars can be taken off the road, perhaps this will speed the path to more efficient water/sewage system implementation.

And, the idea of a graduated fee is great -- quite low for EVs, a little more for PHEVs, up through into America's favorite SUV GHG-belchers.  And, related to congestion, if EV/PHEVs penetrate enough, move all the fees up a little.

Seems to me that Washington, DC, should seek to impose a congestion fee ...

there is good public transport into the city (Metro rail & bus)

traffic congestion is a mess

pollution from automobile transport is a serious regional problem

High-percentage of vehicles entering city through relatively few nodes (bridges from VA, etc ..>)

And, well, this is a way for the city to sock it to the suburbanites who work in DC but don't pay any taxes.

Doubtful Congress will let it through but this would be a great step forward for DC, the region, and the nation.

]]>