<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:wfw="http://wellformedweb.org/CommentAPI/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom">
<channel>
	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Efficiency now, 10 percent renewables by 2012, and one million plug-in hybrids by 2015]]></title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.grist.org/rss/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<description>Grist Comment Feed</description>
	<language>en</language>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #1 by Jon Rynn</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/a-real-energy-plan-for-america/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 08:49:16 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/a-real-energy-plan-for-america/1</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>the good, the questionable, and the ugly<p>Questionable: &nbsp;I still don't see plug-ins becoming important for quite a while, unfortunately, putting them in the category of "Real Soon Now". &nbsp;According to Joe's <a href="http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/01/22/plug_in_hybrids/" rel="nofollow">article about plug-ins, he's got his hopes on a non-auto company using ultracapacitors that haven't been mass produced yet. &nbsp;Also, flexfuel? &nbsp;I don't know why he thought that was a good idea.<p>
And what is a low carbon fuel?<p>
Also, just giving targets for carbon emissions doesn't mean much unless the means are specified.<p>
Good: The Federal Government should "green" its buildings and vehicles. &nbsp;This is very important.<br>
Also, unfortunately, the Feds probably need to shovel bucket loads of money, as Obama has called for, so that Detroit can convert to electric vehicles<p>
And of course the ugly: the ccs, expanding nuclear. </p></br></p></p></p></a></p></strong></p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>the good, the questionable, and the ugly<p>Questionable: &nbsp;I still don't see plug-ins becoming important for quite a while, unfortunately, putting them in the category of "Real Soon Now". &nbsp;According to Joe's <a href="http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/01/22/plug_in_hybrids/" rel="nofollow">article about plug-ins, he's got his hopes on a non-auto company using ultracapacitors that haven't been mass produced yet. &nbsp;Also, flexfuel? &nbsp;I don't know why he thought that was a good idea.<p>
And what is a low carbon fuel?<p>
Also, just giving targets for carbon emissions doesn't mean much unless the means are specified.<p>
Good: The Federal Government should "green" its buildings and vehicles. &nbsp;This is very important.<br>
Also, unfortunately, the Feds probably need to shovel bucket loads of money, as Obama has called for, so that Detroit can convert to electric vehicles<p>
And of course the ugly: the ccs, expanding nuclear. </p></br></p></p></p></a></p></strong></p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #2 by Sam Wells</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/a-real-energy-plan-for-america/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 12:51:56 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/a-real-energy-plan-for-america/2</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Lower carbon in fuel???</strong></p><p>Hmm, diesel has a carbon content of 86% and gasoline is somewhat lower, depending on additives. To lower it leans having LESS power so you have to burn more fuel. It is simple thermodynamics. That's when I wondered about the first list "to lower the carbon content in fuel." Are you nuts?</p><p>
Energy density is why gasoline and better yet, diesel are so efficient. To reduce carbon means using massive loads of alternative fuels that have a lower carbon content. So we're back to alternative fuels like it was 1992 again, huh? Well that didn't work so I guess we should do something else.</p><p>
We all know that natural gas vehicle literally crapped out. Ethanol and methanol each have horrendous diseconomies. Using coal-powered generating units for electric vehicles is really a stupid thing once done on a large scale. I don't get it. Propane has its issues as well, although was actually closest to working in the fleet (LNG was a disaster in the making). &nbsp;</p><p>
There is no way for modern technology to face the physical properties of these kinds of alternative fuels. There is no magic formula except electrification and a slim possibility of fuel cells. If you blend certification gasoline or diesel, you pay more because you have less energy, and since you have less energy you burn more and get about the same carbon emissions in a combustion motor vehicle.</p><p>
The trick is to get people out of combustion motor vehicles and stay with gasoline and diesel for needed uses. That's a more rational fuels-based program. Rail and even buses can haul many people more efficiently than driving their own cars. In many cases these larger units are easier to electrify, like subways and urban rail (if you have clean electric power, better). I've thought about this many times and found all the alternative fuels to be a complete crock of snake-oil. I used to be the alternative fuels director at the Texas environmental commission.

<p>Onward through the fog</p></p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Lower carbon in fuel???</strong></p><p>Hmm, diesel has a carbon content of 86% and gasoline is somewhat lower, depending on additives. To lower it leans having LESS power so you have to burn more fuel. It is simple thermodynamics. That's when I wondered about the first list "to lower the carbon content in fuel." Are you nuts?</p><p>
Energy density is why gasoline and better yet, diesel are so efficient. To reduce carbon means using massive loads of alternative fuels that have a lower carbon content. So we're back to alternative fuels like it was 1992 again, huh? Well that didn't work so I guess we should do something else.</p><p>
We all know that natural gas vehicle literally crapped out. Ethanol and methanol each have horrendous diseconomies. Using coal-powered generating units for electric vehicles is really a stupid thing once done on a large scale. I don't get it. Propane has its issues as well, although was actually closest to working in the fleet (LNG was a disaster in the making). &nbsp;</p><p>
There is no way for modern technology to face the physical properties of these kinds of alternative fuels. There is no magic formula except electrification and a slim possibility of fuel cells. If you blend certification gasoline or diesel, you pay more because you have less energy, and since you have less energy you burn more and get about the same carbon emissions in a combustion motor vehicle.</p><p>
The trick is to get people out of combustion motor vehicles and stay with gasoline and diesel for needed uses. That's a more rational fuels-based program. Rail and even buses can haul many people more efficiently than driving their own cars. In many cases these larger units are easier to electrify, like subways and urban rail (if you have clean electric power, better). I've thought about this many times and found all the alternative fuels to be a complete crock of snake-oil. I used to be the alternative fuels director at the Texas environmental commission.

<p>Onward through the fog</p></p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #3 by BILL HANNAHAN</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/a-real-energy-plan-for-america/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 12:57:11 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/a-real-energy-plan-for-america/3</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>The candidates do not understand the problem.<p>If we implemented both candidates plans with full funding it would not come close to the needed action.<p>
We need a fully integrated energy plan for the future. &nbsp;It is like a jigsaw puzzle with many interacting pieces. The candidates pick out one piece from the opponent's plan and say, "This won't solve our energy problem by itself, so there is no point in doing this". That argument could be applied to every piece of the puzzle. The problem is too serious to be playing such games.<p>
There are 3 billion people around the world who want to join the middle class. If the U.S. could reduce its emissions to zero instantly, the savings would be gobbled up by the developing world. Conservation will not solve the worlds energy problem.<p>
The most important goal for the U.S. is to use our technical capacity to develop low emission energy sources that are less expensive than fossil fuel. People across the world will switch to the new less expensive sources quickly and voluntarily, not kicking and screaming.<p>
Energy is so important to the human race that we must implement a plan that does not have failure as an option. &nbsp;<p>
SHORT TERM STRATEGY<p>
1 &nbsp; &nbsp; Drill, drill, drill. &nbsp;Drill in Alaska, drill offshore, drill wherever we have oil and gas. Each $10 per barrel that oil goes up costs Americans another $80 billion per year. Each 1 cent per kWh that electricity goes up costs Americans another $40 billion per year.<p>
We need fuel to keep our economy going so that we can afford to develop the new technologies that the world needs. <p>
2 &nbsp; &nbsp; Level the playing field so that we are forced to pay the true cost of energy from each source. &nbsp;Eliminate all energy subsidies.<p>
When you take a load of trash to the city landfill you pay a fee per pound of trash. &nbsp;Humans have been using the atmosphere as a free waste dump since we gained control of fire. Atmospheric dumping of hazardous material is producing severe adverse effects on human health and global climate. We should charge an atmospheric dumping fee equal to the best estimate of the cost of damage done by the toxic waste being injected into our atmosphere. Low emission technologies will become more competitive on a level playing field.<p>
3 &nbsp; &nbsp; Conservation is a strategy that is being implemented already due to rising energy costs, and it will increase. Improving insulation and using more efficient appliances make good sense.<p>
Conservation sometimes comes at a high cost. For example sales of motorcycles and mopeds are exploding. &nbsp;The motorcycle fatality rate per mile is seven times higher than for cars. &nbsp;The fatality rate for bicycles is seven times higher than motorcycles. Econobox cars are less survivable in accidents than large cars built with the same level of technology. <p>
Higher electricity prices mean less security lighting. &nbsp;There'll be more muggings and rapes on college campuses and parking lots. &nbsp;Homes will be colder in winter and hotter in summer. &nbsp;More people on limited income will have to choose between paying for food, medicine or utility bills.<p>
The cost of conservation includes increased human suffering and death. The sooner we develop clean safe abundant sources of inexpensive energy, the sooner we can minimize these costs.<p>
INTERMEDIATE TERM STRATEGY<p>
Use proven technology to reduce our dependence on foreign oil.<p>
1 &nbsp; &nbsp; Accelerate the mainstreaming of emerging technologies including hybrid, all electric and fuel cell vehicles.<p>
&nbsp;2 &nbsp; &nbsp;Mass produce floating nuclear power plants to increase our supply of clean emissions free energy electricity. &nbsp;A company called Offshore Power Systems built a facility to do that in Florida during the seventies, but it was never put into production due to a downturn in the economy that stalled growth and canceled orders.<p>
3 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Convert most stationary application of natural gas to electricity. Use our natural gas supply to displace imported oil. &nbsp;Automakers can convert from gasoline to natural gas quickly and cheaply.<p>
LONG TERM STRATEGY<p>
1 &nbsp; &nbsp; Increase R&amp;D for energy by more than a factor of ten to $100 billion per year, 90 cents per day for each of us. Push every technology as hard as possible, build prototypes of everything as it becomes possible and publish the performance data.<p>
When someone says R&amp;D most people only hear Research. In truth Development is the really expensive part, and the U.S. has done very little of that in recent decades. <p>
Build intermediate scale plants of all promising technologies, advanced nuclear, cellulosic biofuel, solar power, geothermal, coal with full sequestration. For those technologies that are successful in medium scale we should built at least one full scale commercial size plant.<p>
We have yet to build a fully sequestered coal plant after years of talk. We need to try even if the first plant is a failure. <p>
There are dozens of ways to split a uranium atom. What are the odds that a steroidal submarine reactor is the best? There are huge improvements to be made in nuclear power plant design and construction, yet we have not built a new experimental reactor since 1973.<p>
2 &nbsp; &nbsp; Spaceship earth is less than 8,000 miles in diameter and covered largely by water. With the appropriate use of technology it could be a near paradise for 500 million to 1 billion people, without putting too much stress on the other species that share this planet, but we are over 6 billion, headed for 10 billion, with two thirds living in poverty. <p>
Earth can never be paradise for 10 billion people, unless your idea of paradise is sitting in an air conditioned high rise apartment building, surfing the internet, eating insect pate. It will take a massive infusion of technology to provide a comfortable life for all those people while preserving whatever is left of the environment.<p>
Population has to be on the table in any serious discussion of the future. The U.S. population has more than doubled since WW II. Had we stabilized it at that level we would have abundant inexpensive energy, water and food supplies.<p>
CONCLUSION<p>
The road of progress is paved with stones of failure. By spending 90 cents per person per day to push every technology as fast as possible, the best technologies and breakthroughs, whatever they are, will emerge as leaders in the shortest possible time. 95% of that money will probably be wasted on unsuccessful technology, but that is cheap insurance to assure that we get the best solution. Think of it as a life insurance premium for the human race. Relying on a bunch of gray haired law school graduates in Washington to cherry pick technology is a formula for disaster.<p>
The new technologies will tend to suppress rising energy costs. I believe the savings could surpass the annual R&amp;D cost within 15 - 20 years, and save over $2,000 per year per person within 30 years, not to mention a large improvement in the environment and quality of life with this approach. 100 years from now energy will be cheap, clean and abundant.<p>
A big R&amp;D push will provide the U.S. with new products that are highly desirable all over the world, providing Americans with high paying manufacturing jobs and products to sell overseas to eliminate our trade deficit and strengthen the dollar.<p>
We have wasted the last 30 years, we need to start implementing this solution now!

<p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>The candidates do not understand the problem.<p>If we implemented both candidates plans with full funding it would not come close to the needed action.<p>
We need a fully integrated energy plan for the future. &nbsp;It is like a jigsaw puzzle with many interacting pieces. The candidates pick out one piece from the opponent's plan and say, "This won't solve our energy problem by itself, so there is no point in doing this". That argument could be applied to every piece of the puzzle. The problem is too serious to be playing such games.<p>
There are 3 billion people around the world who want to join the middle class. If the U.S. could reduce its emissions to zero instantly, the savings would be gobbled up by the developing world. Conservation will not solve the worlds energy problem.<p>
The most important goal for the U.S. is to use our technical capacity to develop low emission energy sources that are less expensive than fossil fuel. People across the world will switch to the new less expensive sources quickly and voluntarily, not kicking and screaming.<p>
Energy is so important to the human race that we must implement a plan that does not have failure as an option. &nbsp;<p>
SHORT TERM STRATEGY<p>
1 &nbsp; &nbsp; Drill, drill, drill. &nbsp;Drill in Alaska, drill offshore, drill wherever we have oil and gas. Each $10 per barrel that oil goes up costs Americans another $80 billion per year. Each 1 cent per kWh that electricity goes up costs Americans another $40 billion per year.<p>
We need fuel to keep our economy going so that we can afford to develop the new technologies that the world needs. <p>
2 &nbsp; &nbsp; Level the playing field so that we are forced to pay the true cost of energy from each source. &nbsp;Eliminate all energy subsidies.<p>
When you take a load of trash to the city landfill you pay a fee per pound of trash. &nbsp;Humans have been using the atmosphere as a free waste dump since we gained control of fire. Atmospheric dumping of hazardous material is producing severe adverse effects on human health and global climate. We should charge an atmospheric dumping fee equal to the best estimate of the cost of damage done by the toxic waste being injected into our atmosphere. Low emission technologies will become more competitive on a level playing field.<p>
3 &nbsp; &nbsp; Conservation is a strategy that is being implemented already due to rising energy costs, and it will increase. Improving insulation and using more efficient appliances make good sense.<p>
Conservation sometimes comes at a high cost. For example sales of motorcycles and mopeds are exploding. &nbsp;The motorcycle fatality rate per mile is seven times higher than for cars. &nbsp;The fatality rate for bicycles is seven times higher than motorcycles. Econobox cars are less survivable in accidents than large cars built with the same level of technology. <p>
Higher electricity prices mean less security lighting. &nbsp;There'll be more muggings and rapes on college campuses and parking lots. &nbsp;Homes will be colder in winter and hotter in summer. &nbsp;More people on limited income will have to choose between paying for food, medicine or utility bills.<p>
The cost of conservation includes increased human suffering and death. The sooner we develop clean safe abundant sources of inexpensive energy, the sooner we can minimize these costs.<p>
INTERMEDIATE TERM STRATEGY<p>
Use proven technology to reduce our dependence on foreign oil.<p>
1 &nbsp; &nbsp; Accelerate the mainstreaming of emerging technologies including hybrid, all electric and fuel cell vehicles.<p>
&nbsp;2 &nbsp; &nbsp;Mass produce floating nuclear power plants to increase our supply of clean emissions free energy electricity. &nbsp;A company called Offshore Power Systems built a facility to do that in Florida during the seventies, but it was never put into production due to a downturn in the economy that stalled growth and canceled orders.<p>
3 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Convert most stationary application of natural gas to electricity. Use our natural gas supply to displace imported oil. &nbsp;Automakers can convert from gasoline to natural gas quickly and cheaply.<p>
LONG TERM STRATEGY<p>
1 &nbsp; &nbsp; Increase R&amp;D for energy by more than a factor of ten to $100 billion per year, 90 cents per day for each of us. Push every technology as hard as possible, build prototypes of everything as it becomes possible and publish the performance data.<p>
When someone says R&amp;D most people only hear Research. In truth Development is the really expensive part, and the U.S. has done very little of that in recent decades. <p>
Build intermediate scale plants of all promising technologies, advanced nuclear, cellulosic biofuel, solar power, geothermal, coal with full sequestration. For those technologies that are successful in medium scale we should built at least one full scale commercial size plant.<p>
We have yet to build a fully sequestered coal plant after years of talk. We need to try even if the first plant is a failure. <p>
There are dozens of ways to split a uranium atom. What are the odds that a steroidal submarine reactor is the best? There are huge improvements to be made in nuclear power plant design and construction, yet we have not built a new experimental reactor since 1973.<p>
2 &nbsp; &nbsp; Spaceship earth is less than 8,000 miles in diameter and covered largely by water. With the appropriate use of technology it could be a near paradise for 500 million to 1 billion people, without putting too much stress on the other species that share this planet, but we are over 6 billion, headed for 10 billion, with two thirds living in poverty. <p>
Earth can never be paradise for 10 billion people, unless your idea of paradise is sitting in an air conditioned high rise apartment building, surfing the internet, eating insect pate. It will take a massive infusion of technology to provide a comfortable life for all those people while preserving whatever is left of the environment.<p>
Population has to be on the table in any serious discussion of the future. The U.S. population has more than doubled since WW II. Had we stabilized it at that level we would have abundant inexpensive energy, water and food supplies.<p>
CONCLUSION<p>
The road of progress is paved with stones of failure. By spending 90 cents per person per day to push every technology as fast as possible, the best technologies and breakthroughs, whatever they are, will emerge as leaders in the shortest possible time. 95% of that money will probably be wasted on unsuccessful technology, but that is cheap insurance to assure that we get the best solution. Think of it as a life insurance premium for the human race. Relying on a bunch of gray haired law school graduates in Washington to cherry pick technology is a formula for disaster.<p>
The new technologies will tend to suppress rising energy costs. I believe the savings could surpass the annual R&amp;D cost within 15 - 20 years, and save over $2,000 per year per person within 30 years, not to mention a large improvement in the environment and quality of life with this approach. 100 years from now energy will be cheap, clean and abundant.<p>
A big R&amp;D push will provide the U.S. with new products that are highly desirable all over the world, providing Americans with high paying manufacturing jobs and products to sell overseas to eliminate our trade deficit and strengthen the dollar.<p>
We have wasted the last 30 years, we need to start implementing this solution now!

<p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #4 by amazingdrx</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/a-real-energy-plan-for-america/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 13:39:11 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/a-real-energy-plan-for-america/4</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Great compromise plan</strong></p><p>I can see the environmental community must push the better parts forward and halt the bad stuff later on, after Obama is elected.</p><p>
Flex fuel could switch to biogas/natural gas/gasoline or diesel, instead of ethanol.</p><p>
Nuclear, a 10 year experimental program, no new nukes until that testing is completed.</p><p>
Clean coal, same thing, a 5 year experimental testing prohect. &nbsp;Prove it works, prove the cost.</p><p>
Switch biofuel efforts to biogas from waste instead of biomass to liquid fuel.</p><p>
These are easy changes, we have the science to prove they are necessary.</p><p>
Let the tree to fuel and grass to fuel farming lobby have a few experimental plants too. &nbsp;But let them prove they should be expanded before going that way. &nbsp;</p><p>
Promote organic fertilizer and farming along with biogas farm energy production. &nbsp;</p><p>
Obama's basic energy plan framework could be skewed this way.

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog     John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin</p></p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Great compromise plan</strong></p><p>I can see the environmental community must push the better parts forward and halt the bad stuff later on, after Obama is elected.</p><p>
Flex fuel could switch to biogas/natural gas/gasoline or diesel, instead of ethanol.</p><p>
Nuclear, a 10 year experimental program, no new nukes until that testing is completed.</p><p>
Clean coal, same thing, a 5 year experimental testing prohect. &nbsp;Prove it works, prove the cost.</p><p>
Switch biofuel efforts to biogas from waste instead of biomass to liquid fuel.</p><p>
These are easy changes, we have the science to prove they are necessary.</p><p>
Let the tree to fuel and grass to fuel farming lobby have a few experimental plants too. &nbsp;But let them prove they should be expanded before going that way. &nbsp;</p><p>
Promote organic fertilizer and farming along with biogas farm energy production. &nbsp;</p><p>
Obama's basic energy plan framework could be skewed this way.

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog     John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin</p></p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #5 by jimbeyer</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/a-real-energy-plan-for-america/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 01:19:55 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/a-real-energy-plan-for-america/5</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Is Joe preening for a cabinet post?</strong></p><p>It's an OK plan, but 1 million PHEVs by 2015 is completely unrealistic. &nbsp;Pushing them that hard might even slow the technology. &nbsp;Plus, we need to have that much more electricity (and infrastructure) available to charge them. &nbsp;How can we get all THAT built in 7 years?</p><p>
Obama's hope for clean coal is also unrealistic and baldly political. &nbsp;Clean coal isn't. &nbsp;And never will be. &nbsp;Yet power generation is a bigger source of CO2 emissions than oil use in passenger cars (which, for better or for worse, will probably take care of itself as oil is depleted.)</p><p>
Obama also punts on nuclear power. &nbsp;Nuclear power is the only viable strategy to date that can reduce our carbon emissions significantly. &nbsp;The nuclear waste issue has not been solved, but is solvable. &nbsp;At the very least, clean nuclear power is much more realizable than clean coal.</p><p>
So, unfortunately, while this plan makes several great steps forward, it is bogged in the politics of democrats having to hate nuclear power. &nbsp;Which apparently, is forcing them to LIKE coal. &nbsp;Burning coal will destroy this planet faster than nuclear power ever will or ever could.</p><p>
More honesty on Joe Romm's part would have been refreshing.

<p>Build plugin hybrids that run on renewable methane.  That's all that's needed.</p></p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Is Joe preening for a cabinet post?</strong></p><p>It's an OK plan, but 1 million PHEVs by 2015 is completely unrealistic. &nbsp;Pushing them that hard might even slow the technology. &nbsp;Plus, we need to have that much more electricity (and infrastructure) available to charge them. &nbsp;How can we get all THAT built in 7 years?</p><p>
Obama's hope for clean coal is also unrealistic and baldly political. &nbsp;Clean coal isn't. &nbsp;And never will be. &nbsp;Yet power generation is a bigger source of CO2 emissions than oil use in passenger cars (which, for better or for worse, will probably take care of itself as oil is depleted.)</p><p>
Obama also punts on nuclear power. &nbsp;Nuclear power is the only viable strategy to date that can reduce our carbon emissions significantly. &nbsp;The nuclear waste issue has not been solved, but is solvable. &nbsp;At the very least, clean nuclear power is much more realizable than clean coal.</p><p>
So, unfortunately, while this plan makes several great steps forward, it is bogged in the politics of democrats having to hate nuclear power. &nbsp;Which apparently, is forcing them to LIKE coal. &nbsp;Burning coal will destroy this planet faster than nuclear power ever will or ever could.</p><p>
More honesty on Joe Romm's part would have been refreshing.

<p>Build plugin hybrids that run on renewable methane.  That's all that's needed.</p></p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #6 by turanga leela</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/a-real-energy-plan-for-america/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 01:51:39 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/a-real-energy-plan-for-america/6</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Low carbon fuel standard</strong></p><p>A low carbon fuel standard means reducing the carbon content of the fuel <strong>system</strong>, not reducing the carbon content of liquid fuels. Electricity is part of the fuel system too. </p><p>
A policy that makes mandatory annual reductions in the carbon content of the fuel system is the best means of accounting for carbon in transportation. The best means of reducing carbon from the transportation system is still reducing fuel consumption, through efficiency standards and mass transit. And maybe enacting laws that limit the number of cars allowed into the urban centers, like the one they have in Amsterdam.</p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Low carbon fuel standard</strong></p><p>A low carbon fuel standard means reducing the carbon content of the fuel <strong>system</strong>, not reducing the carbon content of liquid fuels. Electricity is part of the fuel system too. </p><p>
A policy that makes mandatory annual reductions in the carbon content of the fuel system is the best means of accounting for carbon in transportation. The best means of reducing carbon from the transportation system is still reducing fuel consumption, through efficiency standards and mass transit. And maybe enacting laws that limit the number of cars allowed into the urban centers, like the one they have in Amsterdam.</p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #7 by amazingdrx</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/a-real-energy-plan-for-america/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 01:54:16 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/a-real-energy-plan-for-america/7</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Audi has one<p>"...1 million PHEVs by 2015 is completely unrealistic."<p>
Could they build a million of these? &nbsp;Yep, no doubt. &nbsp;Rear wheel plugin electric, front wheel regular gas engine. &nbsp;<p>
Why couldn't Detroit build a million like this, with american front wheel drive cars, converted with the plugin rear drive. &nbsp;They can with Obama's plan. &nbsp;<p>
Government federal, state, and local and big business could order a million of them from GM, Ford, and chrysler. &nbsp; just like jeeps, tanks, trucks, planes were built for WW2 victory. &nbsp;let's win this time around, without war, just manufacturing power. &nbsp;Renewable/conservation energy mass production, trust american workers like the country did in WW2.<p>
What's good for american families is good for america, and that will be good for GM and the others. &nbsp;Obama reverses the old corporatist saw, &nbsp;"What's good for GM, is good for america." <p>
<a href="http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog/_archives/2007/11/12/3348547.html" rel="nofollow">http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog/_archives/2007/11/12 ...

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog     John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin</p></a></p></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Audi has one<p>"...1 million PHEVs by 2015 is completely unrealistic."<p>
Could they build a million of these? &nbsp;Yep, no doubt. &nbsp;Rear wheel plugin electric, front wheel regular gas engine. &nbsp;<p>
Why couldn't Detroit build a million like this, with american front wheel drive cars, converted with the plugin rear drive. &nbsp;They can with Obama's plan. &nbsp;<p>
Government federal, state, and local and big business could order a million of them from GM, Ford, and chrysler. &nbsp; just like jeeps, tanks, trucks, planes were built for WW2 victory. &nbsp;let's win this time around, without war, just manufacturing power. &nbsp;Renewable/conservation energy mass production, trust american workers like the country did in WW2.<p>
What's good for american families is good for america, and that will be good for GM and the others. &nbsp;Obama reverses the old corporatist saw, &nbsp;"What's good for GM, is good for america." <p>
<a href="http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog/_archives/2007/11/12/3348547.html" rel="nofollow">http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog/_archives/2007/11/12 ...

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog     John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin</p></a></p></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #8 by vakibs</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/a-real-energy-plan-for-america/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 02:43:01 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/a-real-energy-plan-for-america/8</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>obama is smarter than obamanauts</strong></p><p>I can see the environmental community must push the better parts forward and halt the bad stuff later on, after Obama is elected.</p><p>
So, Obama is a toddler who will be pushed around by Mr. Know Alls ? </p><p>
Hardly so. In fact, Obama is a seasoned listener and he listens to all points of view patiently. As a first-rate politician, his task is about discovering intelligent compromises. This is why his words of encouragement for clean coal and nuclear power (BTW, clean coal sucks and nuclear power rocks). </p><p>
It is a shame that the puported environmentalists are getting busy touting their tiny little green plans, with complete disregard for a long term future. </p><p>
When you care about man made global warming, what makes sense is the quantity of fossil fuels that you keep underneath the earth. It doesn't matter whether you burn the fuels now or 10 years later. What matters is a comprehensive check on the maximum amount of fossil fuels that the society will use in the future. If your plan has such a check, then it is a good plan. Otherwise it is not. t is a shame that nobody even bothers to present such numbers. </p><p>
What we should be talking about is the number of coal plants that we will be shutting down per each year. What we should be finalizing are global targets for the amount of coal reserves that will be kept underneath the surface. </p><p>
How we achieve these targets is another issue. But without any such target in place, what is the point of making void claims such as we will increase the share of renewable electricity to 10%or that we will make all cars plugin hybrids (both of which are achievable, but utterly inadequate to the global warming question)</p><p>
And by the way, no mention of trains in the report (a zillion times better investment than a fleet of feel-good plugin hybrids). <br>
</br></p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>obama is smarter than obamanauts</strong></p><p>I can see the environmental community must push the better parts forward and halt the bad stuff later on, after Obama is elected.</p><p>
So, Obama is a toddler who will be pushed around by Mr. Know Alls ? </p><p>
Hardly so. In fact, Obama is a seasoned listener and he listens to all points of view patiently. As a first-rate politician, his task is about discovering intelligent compromises. This is why his words of encouragement for clean coal and nuclear power (BTW, clean coal sucks and nuclear power rocks). </p><p>
It is a shame that the puported environmentalists are getting busy touting their tiny little green plans, with complete disregard for a long term future. </p><p>
When you care about man made global warming, what makes sense is the quantity of fossil fuels that you keep underneath the earth. It doesn't matter whether you burn the fuels now or 10 years later. What matters is a comprehensive check on the maximum amount of fossil fuels that the society will use in the future. If your plan has such a check, then it is a good plan. Otherwise it is not. t is a shame that nobody even bothers to present such numbers. </p><p>
What we should be talking about is the number of coal plants that we will be shutting down per each year. What we should be finalizing are global targets for the amount of coal reserves that will be kept underneath the surface. </p><p>
How we achieve these targets is another issue. But without any such target in place, what is the point of making void claims such as we will increase the share of renewable electricity to 10%or that we will make all cars plugin hybrids (both of which are achievable, but utterly inadequate to the global warming question)</p><p>
And by the way, no mention of trains in the report (a zillion times better investment than a fleet of feel-good plugin hybrids). <br>
</br></p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #9 by KenG</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/a-real-energy-plan-for-america/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 04:33:27 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/a-real-energy-plan-for-america/9</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>PHEVs</strong></p><p>As usual, it seems to me that Obama's plans are strictly political strategy. "Increase fuel ecomony standards 4 percent per each year while protecting the financial future of domestic automakers"? I'd love to see the implementation details on that one.</p><p>
However, 1 million plug-ins by 2015 seems like a reasonable goal. Toyota, GM, Ford and others already plan to have PHEVs on the market in 2010. That's only 200,000 per year and Toyota already sells more Prius (Prii?) each year. Development may crash on the PHEVs but right now that looks like a reasonable goal. </p><p>
Grid capability? No problem at this point with the night baseload capability. Now, if Obama takes the advice of some to shut down base load capacity in favor of solar/wind resources, that would be a whole new ball game. </p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>PHEVs</strong></p><p>As usual, it seems to me that Obama's plans are strictly political strategy. "Increase fuel ecomony standards 4 percent per each year while protecting the financial future of domestic automakers"? I'd love to see the implementation details on that one.</p><p>
However, 1 million plug-ins by 2015 seems like a reasonable goal. Toyota, GM, Ford and others already plan to have PHEVs on the market in 2010. That's only 200,000 per year and Toyota already sells more Prius (Prii?) each year. Development may crash on the PHEVs but right now that looks like a reasonable goal. </p><p>
Grid capability? No problem at this point with the night baseload capability. Now, if Obama takes the advice of some to shut down base load capacity in favor of solar/wind resources, that would be a whole new ball game. </p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
 </channel>
</rss>