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            <title>Comment #1 by Brudaimonia</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/a-desire-named-streetcar/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2007 12:34:29 -0800</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Maybe it's the sounds<p>I like them both, but buses groan loudly with diesel engines while streetcars kind of whir along, perhaps with an innocent clank or two.<p>
Here's another good recent streetcar article from Alex Marshall that I recommend:<p>
<a href="http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/04/good-streets-include-streetcars/" rel="nofollow">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/04/good-streets-includ ...</a></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Maybe it's the sounds<p>I like them both, but buses groan loudly with diesel engines while streetcars kind of whir along, perhaps with an innocent clank or two.<p>
Here's another good recent streetcar article from Alex Marshall that I recommend:<p>
<a href="http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/04/good-streets-include-streetcars/" rel="nofollow">http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/04/good-streets-includ ...</a></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by Jon Rynn</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/a-desire-named-streetcar/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:03:15 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/a-desire-named-streetcar/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>Might be closeness to ground...</strong></p><p>...even buses that don't have steps are not as close to the ground as light rail. &nbsp;The other thing about rail is that the turns are very long, there are no rapid jerking motions as in buses, and light rail generally doesn't have to stop as much. &nbsp;I don't know how the experience of rapid bus transit, with ground-level entrance, compares to light rail. &nbsp;The double-decker buses in London seem to be about the most popular buses -- but diesel buses are definitely noisier and smellier than electric light rail, so that's easier to see.</p><p>
I definitely prefer rail, and I don't quite know why either -- there may also be something to be said for the size. &nbsp;Even a modest light-rail train with, say, three or four cars is more imposing than an articulated bus. &nbsp;That may be part of the reason that they are sometimes less efficient than buses but still more popular. &nbsp;</p><p>
Great post!</p>
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				<p><strong>Might be closeness to ground...</strong></p><p>...even buses that don't have steps are not as close to the ground as light rail. &nbsp;The other thing about rail is that the turns are very long, there are no rapid jerking motions as in buses, and light rail generally doesn't have to stop as much. &nbsp;I don't know how the experience of rapid bus transit, with ground-level entrance, compares to light rail. &nbsp;The double-decker buses in London seem to be about the most popular buses -- but diesel buses are definitely noisier and smellier than electric light rail, so that's easier to see.</p><p>
I definitely prefer rail, and I don't quite know why either -- there may also be something to be said for the size. &nbsp;Even a modest light-rail train with, say, three or four cars is more imposing than an articulated bus. &nbsp;That may be part of the reason that they are sometimes less efficient than buses but still more popular. &nbsp;</p><p>
Great post!</p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by Brendan</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/a-desire-named-streetcar/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:14:07 -0800</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>The Proletariat Chariot</strong></p><p>The bus is great! It irks me that these bourgeoise snoots are so opposed.</p><p>
But for the sake of our climate, I am willing to take the high road and support street cars if it makes them happy.</p>
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				<p><strong>The Proletariat Chariot</strong></p><p>The bus is great! It irks me that these bourgeoise snoots are so opposed.</p><p>
But for the sake of our climate, I am willing to take the high road and support street cars if it makes them happy.</p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by TariffDude</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/a-desire-named-streetcar/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:32:08 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/a-desire-named-streetcar/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>trains<p>I know what you mean and I feel the same way. &nbsp;I think to a certain extent it's because the bus shares infrastructure with cars, so people perceive it as essentially a lower-class car. &nbsp;<p>
A streetcar on the other hand, even if the tracks are on the road, seems more distinct from other modes and therefore less marginal than the bus. &nbsp;It has a more exclusive right of way and the technology is just more appealing. &nbsp;<p>
However if you look at the history of the rise of buses in the place of streetcars it's largely because people acquiesced to huge auto subsidies that had the effect of making buses cheaper to operate, instead of a conspiracy. (see e.g. <a href="http://lava.net/cslater/TQOrigin.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://lava.net/cslater/TQOrigin.pdf) &nbsp; &nbsp;<p>
So even if people like trains (in the same way that they like, say, hot air balloons), when it comes to getting where they're going that's Serious Business.</p></a></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>trains<p>I know what you mean and I feel the same way. &nbsp;I think to a certain extent it's because the bus shares infrastructure with cars, so people perceive it as essentially a lower-class car. &nbsp;<p>
A streetcar on the other hand, even if the tracks are on the road, seems more distinct from other modes and therefore less marginal than the bus. &nbsp;It has a more exclusive right of way and the technology is just more appealing. &nbsp;<p>
However if you look at the history of the rise of buses in the place of streetcars it's largely because people acquiesced to huge auto subsidies that had the effect of making buses cheaper to operate, instead of a conspiracy. (see e.g. <a href="http://lava.net/cslater/TQOrigin.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://lava.net/cslater/TQOrigin.pdf) &nbsp; &nbsp;<p>
So even if people like trains (in the same way that they like, say, hot air balloons), when it comes to getting where they're going that's Serious Business.</p></a></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by amazingdrx</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/a-desire-named-streetcar/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:51:05 -0800</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Track</strong></p><p>With modern technology there is no need for tracks anymore. &nbsp;The electric power for the streetcar and the steering input can come from an induction strip under the pavement. &nbsp;Put rubber tires on a streetcar and there it is.</p><p>
With batteries on the vehicle it can ride on induction strips or off for a certain range. &nbsp;The class/status appeal of a streetcar, the clean electric power, and no tracks make it a good solution.</p><p>
It can also be made much lighter for less damage in accidents and greater rolling efficiency. &nbsp;Streetcar rail trucks have got to be massively heavy.</p><p>
This also makes it easier to add more cars in busy times and take cars off duty later without a lot of complex switching.

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog</p></p>
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				<p><strong>Track</strong></p><p>With modern technology there is no need for tracks anymore. &nbsp;The electric power for the streetcar and the steering input can come from an induction strip under the pavement. &nbsp;Put rubber tires on a streetcar and there it is.</p><p>
With batteries on the vehicle it can ride on induction strips or off for a certain range. &nbsp;The class/status appeal of a streetcar, the clean electric power, and no tracks make it a good solution.</p><p>
It can also be made much lighter for less damage in accidents and greater rolling efficiency. &nbsp;Streetcar rail trucks have got to be massively heavy.</p><p>
This also makes it easier to add more cars in busy times and take cars off duty later without a lot of complex switching.

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #6 by caniscandida</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/a-desire-named-streetcar/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2007 19:00:16 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/a-desire-named-streetcar/6</guid>
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				<p><strong>depending on the kindness of strangers</strong></p><p>Riding a bus here in NYC can be murder, especially if you have to stand. &nbsp;It is so painful and unsettling, to jostle from the center of the street over to the curb and back again, stopping suddenly now and again the whole time. &nbsp;A specially cruel frustration is when the bus stops, you see a green light ahead, the last person waiting to board at a stop finally boards, the bus launches from the curb, only to come crashing to a halt because the light has by then turned red.</p><p>
But I cannot imagine how streetcars would fit in here. &nbsp;("Trolley cars" we called them, back in Philadelphia where I grew up. &nbsp;And that is what the more famous ones in San Francisco are called too, no?) &nbsp;The streets are already so crowded; and negotiating around double-parked or otherwise stopped vehicles is absolutely necessary.</p><p>
A very slender over-head track might work, a couple of storeys off the ground, casting very little shadow, unlike the elevated train tracks that are still in use in the outer boroughs and here and there in Manhattan.</p><p>
But that is sort of a monorail, I guess. &nbsp;And we just saw the fourth-season Simpsons episode, in which a traveling thief sells Springfield a super-shitty monorail, and Homer is the driver, and Leonard Nimoy himself is present for the maiden voyage. ... &nbsp;Lisa of course had reservations all along.

<p>Chickens are our cousins!  So are fish!  So are other sentient animals!  Let us learn to be kind.</p></p>
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				<p><strong>depending on the kindness of strangers</strong></p><p>Riding a bus here in NYC can be murder, especially if you have to stand. &nbsp;It is so painful and unsettling, to jostle from the center of the street over to the curb and back again, stopping suddenly now and again the whole time. &nbsp;A specially cruel frustration is when the bus stops, you see a green light ahead, the last person waiting to board at a stop finally boards, the bus launches from the curb, only to come crashing to a halt because the light has by then turned red.</p><p>
But I cannot imagine how streetcars would fit in here. &nbsp;("Trolley cars" we called them, back in Philadelphia where I grew up. &nbsp;And that is what the more famous ones in San Francisco are called too, no?) &nbsp;The streets are already so crowded; and negotiating around double-parked or otherwise stopped vehicles is absolutely necessary.</p><p>
A very slender over-head track might work, a couple of storeys off the ground, casting very little shadow, unlike the elevated train tracks that are still in use in the outer boroughs and here and there in Manhattan.</p><p>
But that is sort of a monorail, I guess. &nbsp;And we just saw the fourth-season Simpsons episode, in which a traveling thief sells Springfield a super-shitty monorail, and Homer is the driver, and Leonard Nimoy himself is present for the maiden voyage. ... &nbsp;Lisa of course had reservations all along.

<p>Chickens are our cousins!  So are fish!  So are other sentient animals!  Let us learn to be kind.</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #7 by John former Marine</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/a-desire-named-streetcar/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2007 23:19:39 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/a-desire-named-streetcar/7</guid>
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				<p><strong>St. Charles streetcar rules!</strong></p><p>I went to school in New Orleans from '96 - '00 and the absolute best thing about the city was the streetcars. &nbsp;The buses came by campus as well (the Freret Jet) but not many people felt comfortable riding on them at night for some reason. &nbsp;Riding the St. Charles streetcar was always a wonderful experience. &nbsp;It went pretty slow but I always thought it was worth it anyways.</p><p>
If anything could get me to give up my car, it would be a streetcar.</p><p>
Laissez les tramways rouler!

<p>Shu pas a vende.</p></p>
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				<p><strong>St. Charles streetcar rules!</strong></p><p>I went to school in New Orleans from '96 - '00 and the absolute best thing about the city was the streetcars. &nbsp;The buses came by campus as well (the Freret Jet) but not many people felt comfortable riding on them at night for some reason. &nbsp;Riding the St. Charles streetcar was always a wonderful experience. &nbsp;It went pretty slow but I always thought it was worth it anyways.</p><p>
If anything could get me to give up my car, it would be a streetcar.</p><p>
Laissez les tramways rouler!

<p>Shu pas a vende.</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #8 by kmp</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/a-desire-named-streetcar/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2007 00:54:29 -0800</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>I am people.</strong></p><p>I loathe the bus. &nbsp;I love streetcars. I really cannot understand why... seems to be an accumulation of small, should-be-insignificant factors that I prefer about streetcar/trolley travel somehow reach a 'tipping point' (ha!). &nbsp;</p><p>
I lived in Manhattan for 4 years and never once took a city bus. &nbsp;Ditto for my 14-year stint in Boston. Both cities are eminently walkable and the bus is just so painful that I always prefer to walk. &nbsp;I have, and do, however take the subway, or the T in Boston (the Green Line is much like a streetcar, in that it is above ground, stops every block, and takes about 80 years to get you anywhere). &nbsp;I have taken streetcars, however, all over the country (and, in fact, the world) and always enjoy it. &nbsp;I think they somehow give the illusion that you can jump off at any time, the illusion of being in control of your own travel, while on the bus you are simply trapped and at the mercy of traffics whims.</p><p>
Nevertheless, I add my vote for streetcars! &nbsp;It is worth it to spend a bit more money to be happy. </p>
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				<p><strong>I am people.</strong></p><p>I loathe the bus. &nbsp;I love streetcars. I really cannot understand why... seems to be an accumulation of small, should-be-insignificant factors that I prefer about streetcar/trolley travel somehow reach a 'tipping point' (ha!). &nbsp;</p><p>
I lived in Manhattan for 4 years and never once took a city bus. &nbsp;Ditto for my 14-year stint in Boston. Both cities are eminently walkable and the bus is just so painful that I always prefer to walk. &nbsp;I have, and do, however take the subway, or the T in Boston (the Green Line is much like a streetcar, in that it is above ground, stops every block, and takes about 80 years to get you anywhere). &nbsp;I have taken streetcars, however, all over the country (and, in fact, the world) and always enjoy it. &nbsp;I think they somehow give the illusion that you can jump off at any time, the illusion of being in control of your own travel, while on the bus you are simply trapped and at the mercy of traffics whims.</p><p>
Nevertheless, I add my vote for streetcars! &nbsp;It is worth it to spend a bit more money to be happy. </p>
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            <title>Comment #9 by Laurence Aurbach</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/a-desire-named-streetcar/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2007 01:07:39 -0800</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Accurate cost-benefit can favor rail<p>"Personally, I'm mostly a least-cost planning guy. I want to know which transportation choices are the most cost-effective -- for public dollars, health, and the climate. And buses tend to pencil out better."<p>
Eric, a categorical statement like that just isn't correct. Buses are cheapest option in certain applications, but there are many urban conditions in which rail is the better deal. Transit critics like to pontificate about the cost of rail, but often times their numbers are based on selective statistics -- failing to account for all costs and benefits, as a proper accounting must do.<p>
Todd Litman at the Victoria Transport Institute has published an excellent <a href="http://www.vtpi.org/documents/public.php" rel="nofollow">series of papers on rail vs. bus transit. In <a href="http://www.vtpi.org/railbensum.pdf" rel="nofollow">Rail Transit In America: A Comprehensive Evaluation of Benefits, Litman compared cities with extensive rail transit systems to cities with bus-only systems. He found that cities with large rail systems have higher ridership, lower consumer transportation expenditures, lower transit operating costs per passenger-mile, and higher transit service cost recovery, among other benefits. Litman writes,<p>
Many of these benefits result from rail's ability to create more accessible land use patterns and more diverse transport systems, which reduce per capita vehicle ownership and mileage. These additional benefits should be considered when evaluating rail transit. <p>
Rail transit does have a cost. Rail transit requires about $12.5 billion annually in public subsidy, which averages about $90 additional dollars annually per rail transit city resident compared with Bus Only cities. These extra costs are offset several times over by economic benefits, including $19.4 billion in congestion costs savings, $8.0 billion in roadway cost savings, $12.1 billion in parking cost savings, $22.6 billion in consumer cost saving, and $5.6 billion in reduced crash damages.<p>
In <a href="http://www.vtpi.org/railcrit.pdf" rel="nofollow">Evaluating Rail Transit Criticism, Litman refutes many critiques of rail, including the cost issue. He summarizes his position:<p>
Critics often argue that rail transit projects are not cost effective at addressing a particular problem (congestion, air pollution, energy conservation, mobility for non-drivers, etc.). This reflects reductionist analysis, which only considers a single objective. But cost effectiveness should reflect total impacts. High quality transit that attracts discretionary riders (people who would otherwise drive) provides multiple benefits. Although rail is not necessarily the most cost effective way of solving any of these problems individually, it is often cost effective overall, when all benefits and costs are considered. Rail critics generally ignore many of these impacts.

<p><a href="http://pedshed.net" rel="nofollow">Ped Shed Blog</a></p></p></a></p></p></p></a></a></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Accurate cost-benefit can favor rail<p>"Personally, I'm mostly a least-cost planning guy. I want to know which transportation choices are the most cost-effective -- for public dollars, health, and the climate. And buses tend to pencil out better."<p>
Eric, a categorical statement like that just isn't correct. Buses are cheapest option in certain applications, but there are many urban conditions in which rail is the better deal. Transit critics like to pontificate about the cost of rail, but often times their numbers are based on selective statistics -- failing to account for all costs and benefits, as a proper accounting must do.<p>
Todd Litman at the Victoria Transport Institute has published an excellent <a href="http://www.vtpi.org/documents/public.php" rel="nofollow">series of papers on rail vs. bus transit. In <a href="http://www.vtpi.org/railbensum.pdf" rel="nofollow">Rail Transit In America: A Comprehensive Evaluation of Benefits, Litman compared cities with extensive rail transit systems to cities with bus-only systems. He found that cities with large rail systems have higher ridership, lower consumer transportation expenditures, lower transit operating costs per passenger-mile, and higher transit service cost recovery, among other benefits. Litman writes,<p>
Many of these benefits result from rail's ability to create more accessible land use patterns and more diverse transport systems, which reduce per capita vehicle ownership and mileage. These additional benefits should be considered when evaluating rail transit. <p>
Rail transit does have a cost. Rail transit requires about $12.5 billion annually in public subsidy, which averages about $90 additional dollars annually per rail transit city resident compared with Bus Only cities. These extra costs are offset several times over by economic benefits, including $19.4 billion in congestion costs savings, $8.0 billion in roadway cost savings, $12.1 billion in parking cost savings, $22.6 billion in consumer cost saving, and $5.6 billion in reduced crash damages.<p>
In <a href="http://www.vtpi.org/railcrit.pdf" rel="nofollow">Evaluating Rail Transit Criticism, Litman refutes many critiques of rail, including the cost issue. He summarizes his position:<p>
Critics often argue that rail transit projects are not cost effective at addressing a particular problem (congestion, air pollution, energy conservation, mobility for non-drivers, etc.). This reflects reductionist analysis, which only considers a single objective. But cost effectiveness should reflect total impacts. High quality transit that attracts discretionary riders (people who would otherwise drive) provides multiple benefits. Although rail is not necessarily the most cost effective way of solving any of these problems individually, it is often cost effective overall, when all benefits and costs are considered. Rail critics generally ignore many of these impacts.

<p><a href="http://pedshed.net" rel="nofollow">Ped Shed Blog</a></p></p></a></p></p></p></a></a></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #10 by Jon Rynn</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/a-desire-named-streetcar/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2007 01:19:50 -0800</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Canis, there were tracks on broadway...<p>...that got covered up, I believe around the LaGuardia era, who killed the last streetcars on 42nd street -- and now there are groups that have trying to get those back, and for quite a while now, I wish them luck. &nbsp;My friend who grew up in NYC in the 1920s remembers the streetcars.<p>
As far as overhead wires, I believe Strasbourg has perfected a system of getting the electricity from a strip in the middle of the light rail path (there must be a technical term for this). &nbsp;Dr.X, rails are more efficient than rubber on road, and I can't find the article that discusses it right now, unfortunately.<p>
By the way, Alan Drake, also a big New Orleans streetcar booster, has an excellent article called &nbsp;<a href="http://www.lightrailnow.org/features/f_lrt_2006-05a.htm" rel="nofollow">"A 10% Reduction in America's Oil Use in Ten to Twelve Years", in the web site <a href="http://www.lightrailnow.com" rel="nofollow">lightrailnow.com, which also has articles comparing buses to light rail.</a></a></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Canis, there were tracks on broadway...<p>...that got covered up, I believe around the LaGuardia era, who killed the last streetcars on 42nd street -- and now there are groups that have trying to get those back, and for quite a while now, I wish them luck. &nbsp;My friend who grew up in NYC in the 1920s remembers the streetcars.<p>
As far as overhead wires, I believe Strasbourg has perfected a system of getting the electricity from a strip in the middle of the light rail path (there must be a technical term for this). &nbsp;Dr.X, rails are more efficient than rubber on road, and I can't find the article that discusses it right now, unfortunately.<p>
By the way, Alan Drake, also a big New Orleans streetcar booster, has an excellent article called &nbsp;<a href="http://www.lightrailnow.org/features/f_lrt_2006-05a.htm" rel="nofollow">"A 10% Reduction in America's Oil Use in Ten to Twelve Years", in the web site <a href="http://www.lightrailnow.com" rel="nofollow">lightrailnow.com, which also has articles comparing buses to light rail.</a></a></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #11 by amazingdrx</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/a-desire-named-streetcar/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2007 01:23:03 -0800</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Monorail</strong></p><p>That monorail episode is great Canis! &nbsp;Reminds one of the hype around the marvelous hydrogen economy and ethanol.</p><p>
How about moving sidewalks for Manhattan? &nbsp;I saw a Science Channel presentation on a nifty application of this sci-fi notion used in an indoor Dubia ski park (wonder if it's solar powered? &nbsp;In dubai? &nbsp;No chance).</p><p>
In the cult classic 60s sci-fi novel "Agent of Chaos", Spinrad featured a moving walkway that had a slower strip of conveyor belt that riders step onto, then a few &nbsp;progressive layers of belts increasing in speed. &nbsp;</p><p>
So you can hop on at walking speed then step up to cab or bus speed through a couple of steps. &nbsp;Bike riders or roller bladers could also use them for steep uphills, then coast down the hills and flats of a city. &nbsp;Turning it into a kind of snowless downhill ski area type city transit on bikes and roller blades, even skateboards. &nbsp;Bart would love this.</p><p>
How about a nice bench feature built into the higher speed side, along with a clear shield that protects from the elements or anyone entering the high speed side? &nbsp;One problem, the conveyor would have to be interrupted at corners or wherever cross driveways are needed. &nbsp;It would be a choppy one block at a time ride. &nbsp;Maybe that would be ok? &nbsp;</p><p>
Another idea is to have the fastest strip in the middle with slower ones on both sides. &nbsp;But could it be stepped across safely? &nbsp;Hehey. I'd like to try one of these ski lift conveyor strips. </p><p>
These issues are easy with ski lifting, because skiers can zoom right onto the strip, from either side.</p><p>
I am liking the Dean Kamen electric wheelchair design more and more. &nbsp;The balancing invention is used in his Segway. &nbsp;This next idea is along that line, but different.</p><p>
A universal low speed personal transport? &nbsp;A low platform, a few iches thick, you stand on that moves along a hidden track, it's speed and acceleration computer controlled so you never fall off or hit anything. &nbsp; </p><p>
A wireless internet signal on the hidden track would transfer information about any objects moving near or on the track to the computer in the platform vehicle. &nbsp; Then the platform could safely maneuver the passenger through space and time. &nbsp;It would anticipate any stops or possible collisions and gradually adjust, unlike the bumpy bus ride.</p><p>
Maybe an inflatable easy chair could pop up from the platform too? &nbsp;Hehey.

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog</p></p>
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				<p><strong>Monorail</strong></p><p>That monorail episode is great Canis! &nbsp;Reminds one of the hype around the marvelous hydrogen economy and ethanol.</p><p>
How about moving sidewalks for Manhattan? &nbsp;I saw a Science Channel presentation on a nifty application of this sci-fi notion used in an indoor Dubia ski park (wonder if it's solar powered? &nbsp;In dubai? &nbsp;No chance).</p><p>
In the cult classic 60s sci-fi novel "Agent of Chaos", Spinrad featured a moving walkway that had a slower strip of conveyor belt that riders step onto, then a few &nbsp;progressive layers of belts increasing in speed. &nbsp;</p><p>
So you can hop on at walking speed then step up to cab or bus speed through a couple of steps. &nbsp;Bike riders or roller bladers could also use them for steep uphills, then coast down the hills and flats of a city. &nbsp;Turning it into a kind of snowless downhill ski area type city transit on bikes and roller blades, even skateboards. &nbsp;Bart would love this.</p><p>
How about a nice bench feature built into the higher speed side, along with a clear shield that protects from the elements or anyone entering the high speed side? &nbsp;One problem, the conveyor would have to be interrupted at corners or wherever cross driveways are needed. &nbsp;It would be a choppy one block at a time ride. &nbsp;Maybe that would be ok? &nbsp;</p><p>
Another idea is to have the fastest strip in the middle with slower ones on both sides. &nbsp;But could it be stepped across safely? &nbsp;Hehey. I'd like to try one of these ski lift conveyor strips. </p><p>
These issues are easy with ski lifting, because skiers can zoom right onto the strip, from either side.</p><p>
I am liking the Dean Kamen electric wheelchair design more and more. &nbsp;The balancing invention is used in his Segway. &nbsp;This next idea is along that line, but different.</p><p>
A universal low speed personal transport? &nbsp;A low platform, a few iches thick, you stand on that moves along a hidden track, it's speed and acceleration computer controlled so you never fall off or hit anything. &nbsp; </p><p>
A wireless internet signal on the hidden track would transfer information about any objects moving near or on the track to the computer in the platform vehicle. &nbsp; Then the platform could safely maneuver the passenger through space and time. &nbsp;It would anticipate any stops or possible collisions and gradually adjust, unlike the bumpy bus ride.</p><p>
Maybe an inflatable easy chair could pop up from the platform too? &nbsp;Hehey.

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #12 by amazingdrx</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/a-desire-named-streetcar/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2007 01:37:42 -0800</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Eureka!</strong></p><p>The platform transport needs a seat that scizzors up that you sit on, then lowers down. &nbsp;An inflatable crash tub, bubble then blows up around and over you as you sit semi bhudda-like, safely wisked to your destination. &nbsp;Either driving yourself or driven via computer controlled trackway.</p><p>
Whisper quiet battery power recharged by induction strips under the street. &nbsp;Now there's a "Family Guy" episode! &nbsp;"Imagine the hilarity that would ensue! Ha." (evil baby voice).

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog</p></p>
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				<p><strong>Eureka!</strong></p><p>The platform transport needs a seat that scizzors up that you sit on, then lowers down. &nbsp;An inflatable crash tub, bubble then blows up around and over you as you sit semi bhudda-like, safely wisked to your destination. &nbsp;Either driving yourself or driven via computer controlled trackway.</p><p>
Whisper quiet battery power recharged by induction strips under the street. &nbsp;Now there's a "Family Guy" episode! &nbsp;"Imagine the hilarity that would ensue! Ha." (evil baby voice).

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #13 by Eric de Place</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/a-desire-named-streetcar/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2007 01:53:54 -0800</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Categorical statement?</strong></p><p>Laurence, </p><p>
I'm a huge fan of VTPI and Litman. As you know, there's a long and heated debate between rail and bus enthusiasts that I'm not intending to referee here. In any case, I intentionally did not include a categorical statement in my post. I said "buses TEND to pencil out better" and I believe that's a defensible position. </p><p>
Sure, there are plenty of cases -- especially large urban areas -- where buses aren't the best buy. But across North America, in cities, towns, and regions of different sizes, I'd put my money on buses. </p>
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				<p><strong>Categorical statement?</strong></p><p>Laurence, </p><p>
I'm a huge fan of VTPI and Litman. As you know, there's a long and heated debate between rail and bus enthusiasts that I'm not intending to referee here. In any case, I intentionally did not include a categorical statement in my post. I said "buses TEND to pencil out better" and I believe that's a defensible position. </p><p>
Sure, there are plenty of cases -- especially large urban areas -- where buses aren't the best buy. But across North America, in cities, towns, and regions of different sizes, I'd put my money on buses. </p>
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            <title>Comment #14 by caniscandida</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/a-desire-named-streetcar/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2007 02:29:28 -0800</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>then again ...</strong></p><p>Not all bus rides in NYC are horrible, so long as you have patience. &nbsp;If time is not a big concern, and the thought of going down into the subway seems too depressing, the bus can be preferable. &nbsp;Also, the spacious accordion buses used on the cross-town routes through Central Park are not unpleasant. &nbsp;And the bus trip from the Columbia University neighborhood up to the Cloisters Museum, above Inwood at the northern tip of Manhattan, is usually enjoyable. &nbsp;If you can sit down, and you like looking out the window at urban scenery, and there is no urgency time-wise, riding the bus can be fine.</p><p>
Jon,<br>
I had suspected that there were streetcars in NYC, and I guess I have even seen old photographs of the city in which they are visible. &nbsp;From what I remember of the old PTA trolley cars in Philadelphia in the early 1960s, the competition with other vehicles for limited space could be a problem, mostly for the other vehicles, but also for passengers on the trolleys. &nbsp;As I recall, there were built-up islands in the center of wide streets at the major stops -- but not at all stops, I think, and I am trying to remember where passengers waited to board, and how they crossed out into the street to board, and then again how they got off safely.</p><p>
Amazing,<br>
the thought of all those conveyor belts running at different speeds make me a bit nauseated. &nbsp;No doubt that would be fine for a younger, more athletic set of passengers, but I think I had better just hail a taxi.</p><p>
One of the disadvantages of public transit is that buses and streetcars must stop at every stop if anyone wants to get on or get off, which slows down everyone else. &nbsp;Do you think a system of semi-private, taxi-sized streetcars on rails could be invented, such that they would be required to stop along the route to accommodate no more than three or four passengers or small parties? &nbsp;

<p>Chickens are our cousins!  So are fish!  So are other sentient animals!  Let us learn to be kind.</p></br></br></p>
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				<p><strong>then again ...</strong></p><p>Not all bus rides in NYC are horrible, so long as you have patience. &nbsp;If time is not a big concern, and the thought of going down into the subway seems too depressing, the bus can be preferable. &nbsp;Also, the spacious accordion buses used on the cross-town routes through Central Park are not unpleasant. &nbsp;And the bus trip from the Columbia University neighborhood up to the Cloisters Museum, above Inwood at the northern tip of Manhattan, is usually enjoyable. &nbsp;If you can sit down, and you like looking out the window at urban scenery, and there is no urgency time-wise, riding the bus can be fine.</p><p>
Jon,<br>
I had suspected that there were streetcars in NYC, and I guess I have even seen old photographs of the city in which they are visible. &nbsp;From what I remember of the old PTA trolley cars in Philadelphia in the early 1960s, the competition with other vehicles for limited space could be a problem, mostly for the other vehicles, but also for passengers on the trolleys. &nbsp;As I recall, there were built-up islands in the center of wide streets at the major stops -- but not at all stops, I think, and I am trying to remember where passengers waited to board, and how they crossed out into the street to board, and then again how they got off safely.</p><p>
Amazing,<br>
the thought of all those conveyor belts running at different speeds make me a bit nauseated. &nbsp;No doubt that would be fine for a younger, more athletic set of passengers, but I think I had better just hail a taxi.</p><p>
One of the disadvantages of public transit is that buses and streetcars must stop at every stop if anyone wants to get on or get off, which slows down everyone else. &nbsp;Do you think a system of semi-private, taxi-sized streetcars on rails could be invented, such that they would be required to stop along the route to accommodate no more than three or four passengers or small parties? &nbsp;

<p>Chickens are our cousins!  So are fish!  So are other sentient animals!  Let us learn to be kind.</p></br></br></p>
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            <title>Comment #15 by NoMoreNigiriSushi</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/a-desire-named-streetcar/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2007 02:41:36 -0800</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>The L</strong></p><p>I know that when I'm in Chicago, I prefer taking the L to CTA buses, and I can't fully articulate the reasons.</p>
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				<p><strong>The L</strong></p><p>I know that when I'm in Chicago, I prefer taking the L to CTA buses, and I can't fully articulate the reasons.</p>
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            <title>Comment #16 by amazingdrx</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/a-desire-named-streetcar/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2007 02:45:09 -0800</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Inflato scooter</strong></p><p>Hehey, Canis. &nbsp;A new industry is born! &nbsp;inflato-scooter.</p><p>
Yep, the belts are great for skiers, but pedestrians would have a hard time with them.

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog</p></p>
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				<p><strong>Inflato scooter</strong></p><p>Hehey, Canis. &nbsp;A new industry is born! &nbsp;inflato-scooter.</p><p>
Yep, the belts are great for skiers, but pedestrians would have a hard time with them.

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #17 by Laurence Aurbach</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/a-desire-named-streetcar/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2007 03:05:47 -0800</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>In smaller cities<p>Maybe we can say that buses are the most cost effective option in most of the individual transit routes in the United States. I'd like to see a paper that makes that case using full cost-benefit analysis.<p>
On the other hand, there is a streetcar renaissance <a href="http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,454517,00.html" rel="nofollow">happening in France, and many new routes are in smaller cities like Nice (pop. 347,000), &nbsp;Nantes (pop. 280,000), Strasbourg (pop. 273,000), Montpellier (pop. 244,000), &nbsp;Bourdeaux (pop. 230,000), Saint-&#201;tienne (pop. 175,000), Grenoble (pop. 158,000), Le Mans (pop. 146,000), Mulhouse (pop. 110,000), and Valenciennes (pop. 41,000). <p>
The usual argument is that European cities are denser and therefore more suitable for transit, which is true generally. But one of the great advantages of rail is its feedback effect, where the rail line initiates new transit-oriented development, which increases ridership, which boosts demand for new rail lines. <p>
One of the main reasons rail draws more riders is because the service is better than buses. Bus comfort, convenience, service and design quality can and should be improved a lot. A good example in a smaller U.S. city is the <a href="http://www.ltd.org/search/showresult.html?versionthread=d38519362672c662c61a9300c1dd78be" rel="nofollow">Eugene EmX. Eugene went with buses because it was determined that a rail system would have been too costly. The long-term question, however, is which option would ultimately have been best for ridership, transit oriented development, the environment, and the total cost-benefit balance.

<p><a href="http://pedshed.net" rel="nofollow">Ped Shed Blog</a></p></a></p></p></a></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>In smaller cities<p>Maybe we can say that buses are the most cost effective option in most of the individual transit routes in the United States. I'd like to see a paper that makes that case using full cost-benefit analysis.<p>
On the other hand, there is a streetcar renaissance <a href="http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,454517,00.html" rel="nofollow">happening in France, and many new routes are in smaller cities like Nice (pop. 347,000), &nbsp;Nantes (pop. 280,000), Strasbourg (pop. 273,000), Montpellier (pop. 244,000), &nbsp;Bourdeaux (pop. 230,000), Saint-&#201;tienne (pop. 175,000), Grenoble (pop. 158,000), Le Mans (pop. 146,000), Mulhouse (pop. 110,000), and Valenciennes (pop. 41,000). <p>
The usual argument is that European cities are denser and therefore more suitable for transit, which is true generally. But one of the great advantages of rail is its feedback effect, where the rail line initiates new transit-oriented development, which increases ridership, which boosts demand for new rail lines. <p>
One of the main reasons rail draws more riders is because the service is better than buses. Bus comfort, convenience, service and design quality can and should be improved a lot. A good example in a smaller U.S. city is the <a href="http://www.ltd.org/search/showresult.html?versionthread=d38519362672c662c61a9300c1dd78be" rel="nofollow">Eugene EmX. Eugene went with buses because it was determined that a rail system would have been too costly. The long-term question, however, is which option would ultimately have been best for ridership, transit oriented development, the environment, and the total cost-benefit balance.

<p><a href="http://pedshed.net" rel="nofollow">Ped Shed Blog</a></p></a></p></p></a></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #18 by infp</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/a-desire-named-streetcar/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2007 03:54:01 -0800</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Tourists ride trains not buses</strong></p><p>As a tourist, I've used train systems around the world because they are easy to use. &nbsp;By simply glancing at a train system map you can generally figure out where you need to go. &nbsp;A bus system is far more challenging and it is not easily rendered on a user friendly map. Locals, of course, have the time and incentive to learn a bus system. &nbsp;Tourists generally do not. &nbsp;</p>
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				<p><strong>Tourists ride trains not buses</strong></p><p>As a tourist, I've used train systems around the world because they are easy to use. &nbsp;By simply glancing at a train system map you can generally figure out where you need to go. &nbsp;A bus system is far more challenging and it is not easily rendered on a user friendly map. Locals, of course, have the time and incentive to learn a bus system. &nbsp;Tourists generally do not. &nbsp;</p>
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            <title>Comment #19 by Delay And Deny</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/a-desire-named-streetcar/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2007 04:15:06 -0800</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Street Cars for The Rich<p><br>
Hey great...a streetcar. &nbsp;And how did it get there? &nbsp;Because Paul Allen a mega-billionaire forced the city to spend money to put it there.<p>
Why?<p>
Because Paul Allen, a mega-billionaire bought a lot of property in South Lake Union and has been trying to find a way to make people pay a lot of money to live there.<p>
So, these people would be herded on a street car, to work at tech jobs downtown, and then pay high rents and mortgages (in Seattle's now declining real estate market), to Paul Allen -- a mega billionaire.<p>
You know what the best "mass" transit solution is? &nbsp;None. &nbsp;Rich people don't travel en masse...they limo and jet around in private vehicles.<br>


<p><b><a href="http://log.texeme.com" rel="nofollow">My Log</a></b></p></br></p></p></p></p></br></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Street Cars for The Rich<p><br>
Hey great...a streetcar. &nbsp;And how did it get there? &nbsp;Because Paul Allen a mega-billionaire forced the city to spend money to put it there.<p>
Why?<p>
Because Paul Allen, a mega-billionaire bought a lot of property in South Lake Union and has been trying to find a way to make people pay a lot of money to live there.<p>
So, these people would be herded on a street car, to work at tech jobs downtown, and then pay high rents and mortgages (in Seattle's now declining real estate market), to Paul Allen -- a mega billionaire.<p>
You know what the best "mass" transit solution is? &nbsp;None. &nbsp;Rich people don't travel en masse...they limo and jet around in private vehicles.<br>


<p><b><a href="http://log.texeme.com" rel="nofollow">My Log</a></b></p></br></p></p></p></p></br></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #20 by cloud</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/a-desire-named-streetcar/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2007 07:16:14 -0800</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>insights into why</strong></p><p>I am a public transit aficionado, and even I dont love the bus. <br>
I have two insights into why:<br>
1)the bus makes me queasy. &nbsp;Yes sometimes I have to ride the bus across the bay from SF and I always arrive queasy. &nbsp;Its the jerky-ride plus the diesel smoke.<br>
2)Train maps are simpler to read (as wisely noted in another comment) and the stops are better defined making riding the train much easier. <br>
</br></br></br></br></p>
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				<p><strong>insights into why</strong></p><p>I am a public transit aficionado, and even I dont love the bus. <br>
I have two insights into why:<br>
1)the bus makes me queasy. &nbsp;Yes sometimes I have to ride the bus across the bay from SF and I always arrive queasy. &nbsp;Its the jerky-ride plus the diesel smoke.<br>
2)Train maps are simpler to read (as wisely noted in another comment) and the stops are better defined making riding the train much easier. <br>
</br></br></br></br></p>
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