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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Why a carbon price beats technology breakthroughs]]></title>
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            <title>Comment #1 by Jon Rynn</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/a-decarbonization-story-part-1/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 04:39:47 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/a-decarbonization-story-part-1/1</guid>
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				<p><strong>Joe, an interesting waffle...</strong></p><p>...maybe I haven't followed your policy recommendations closely enough, but first you say:The best way to get back on the decarbonization trend is not through technology breakthroughs, but through the accelerated deployment of low-carbon technologies, which is best achieved in three ways: a price for carbon, government mandates (such as renewable standards), and government subsidies (such as tax credits or feed-in tariffs) (I am not endorsing the latter).</p><p>
I'm not sure why you're explicitly not endorsing "the latter", but then you seem to endorse it here, the best way to reverse the recent "carbonization" trend is a price for carbon dioxide, aggressive deployment of low-carbon technologies through mandates and subsidies and other government deployment programs (where needed before the CO2 price really kicks in), and a return to aggressive energy-efficiency deployment in China.</p><p>
I think that governments around the world should shovel trillions of dollars at renewable energy, which would certainly fit in the "subsidies" category. &nbsp;It would also seem to me to have no negative effect on pricing carbon. &nbsp;So is there some other reason you are not sure about subsidies?</p>
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				<p><strong>Joe, an interesting waffle...</strong></p><p>...maybe I haven't followed your policy recommendations closely enough, but first you say:The best way to get back on the decarbonization trend is not through technology breakthroughs, but through the accelerated deployment of low-carbon technologies, which is best achieved in three ways: a price for carbon, government mandates (such as renewable standards), and government subsidies (such as tax credits or feed-in tariffs) (I am not endorsing the latter).</p><p>
I'm not sure why you're explicitly not endorsing "the latter", but then you seem to endorse it here, the best way to reverse the recent "carbonization" trend is a price for carbon dioxide, aggressive deployment of low-carbon technologies through mandates and subsidies and other government deployment programs (where needed before the CO2 price really kicks in), and a return to aggressive energy-efficiency deployment in China.</p><p>
I think that governments around the world should shovel trillions of dollars at renewable energy, which would certainly fit in the "subsidies" category. &nbsp;It would also seem to me to have no negative effect on pricing carbon. &nbsp;So is there some other reason you are not sure about subsidies?</p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by dissociated</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/a-decarbonization-story-part-1/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 05:05:59 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/a-decarbonization-story-part-1/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>Gas Tax Break<p>So, <a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080415/ap_on_el_pr/mccain_economy;_ylt=AvKiFnUIRhFT_v5s5s5ZEJqs0NUE" rel="nofollow">this  is probably not a good idea, hey?</a></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Gas Tax Break<p>So, <a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080415/ap_on_el_pr/mccain_economy;_ylt=AvKiFnUIRhFT_v5s5s5ZEJqs0NUE" rel="nofollow">this  is probably not a good idea, hey?</a></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by David Roberts</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/a-decarbonization-story-part-1/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 06:51:35 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/a-decarbonization-story-part-1/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>Fixed</strong></p><p>Sorry about that -- our zealous intern does not favor Joe's adventurous use of punctuation. 

<p>grist.org</p></p>
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				<p><strong>Fixed</strong></p><p>Sorry about that -- our zealous intern does not favor Joe's adventurous use of punctuation. 

<p>grist.org</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by Jon Rynn</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/a-decarbonization-story-part-1/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 07:34:25 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/a-decarbonization-story-part-1/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>What's wrong with feed-ins?</strong></p><p>So, Joe, it looks like you're endorsing subsidies, to be phased out as carbon prices are phased in? &nbsp;I don't agree with that, but I trust you will explain at some point -- and hopefully the problem is not the Zealous Intern, but I can't tell from the clauses whether you are also advocating that mandates should also be phased out as carbon pricing is phased in. &nbsp; My impression was that your "palette" was a little wider, shall we say.</p>
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				<p><strong>What's wrong with feed-ins?</strong></p><p>So, Joe, it looks like you're endorsing subsidies, to be phased out as carbon prices are phased in? &nbsp;I don't agree with that, but I trust you will explain at some point -- and hopefully the problem is not the Zealous Intern, but I can't tell from the clauses whether you are also advocating that mandates should also be phased out as carbon pricing is phased in. &nbsp; My impression was that your "palette" was a little wider, shall we say.</p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by Jon Rynn</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/a-decarbonization-story-part-1/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 07:54:04 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/a-decarbonization-story-part-1/5</guid>
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				<p><strong>In fact, here's a feed-in booster:<p>For more than a decade, those barriers, coupled with low natural-gas prices, kept CSP moribund. The technology got a huge boost in 2004, when Spain approved a guaranteed price, a "feed-in tariff," for CSP. That led to an explosion of Spanish CSP, starting with a power tower near Seville, and a plant outside Granada, the first parabolic trough system in Europe, which should be running later this year.<p>
-- <a href="http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/04/14/solar_electric_thermal/index1.html" rel="nofollow">Joe Romm, Salon magazine</a></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>In fact, here's a feed-in booster:<p>For more than a decade, those barriers, coupled with low natural-gas prices, kept CSP moribund. The technology got a huge boost in 2004, when Spain approved a guaranteed price, a "feed-in tariff," for CSP. That led to an explosion of Spanish CSP, starting with a power tower near Seville, and a plant outside Granada, the first parabolic trough system in Europe, which should be running later this year.<p>
-- <a href="http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/04/14/solar_electric_thermal/index1.html" rel="nofollow">Joe Romm, Salon magazine</a></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #6 by BILL HANNAHAN</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/a-decarbonization-story-part-1/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 15:21:26 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/a-decarbonization-story-part-1/6</guid>
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				<p><strong>Better technology is the key.<p>Europe and Asia have had sky high gas prices for many decades. So why haven't they been driving electric cars for decades? Because the technology was not available.<p>
The Manhattan project would not have happened if the initial R&amp;D had not been done. The same is true for the Apollo moon project. What would computers be like with vacuum tubes?<p>
The only energy that causes global warming is solar energy. The sun delivers over 20,000,000 watts per human all the time. A 1% increase in solar energy retention is over 200,000 more watts per person.<p>
The energy produced by humans is insignificant. Emissions that cause more solar energy to be retained may be a problem.<p>
It is wrong to teach people that they need to live with less energy. Teach them that they need to reduce emissions.<p>
Expensive low emissions technology will not solve the problem, low cost low emission technology will.<p>
We should increase R&amp;D two orders of magnitude to $90 billion per year, push every technology as hard as possible, build prototypes of everything, publish the results and let the utilities choose the technology that best meets our needs.<p>
Adding 2.25 cents to the cost of each kWh will pay for it.

<p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Better technology is the key.<p>Europe and Asia have had sky high gas prices for many decades. So why haven't they been driving electric cars for decades? Because the technology was not available.<p>
The Manhattan project would not have happened if the initial R&amp;D had not been done. The same is true for the Apollo moon project. What would computers be like with vacuum tubes?<p>
The only energy that causes global warming is solar energy. The sun delivers over 20,000,000 watts per human all the time. A 1% increase in solar energy retention is over 200,000 more watts per person.<p>
The energy produced by humans is insignificant. Emissions that cause more solar energy to be retained may be a problem.<p>
It is wrong to teach people that they need to live with less energy. Teach them that they need to reduce emissions.<p>
Expensive low emissions technology will not solve the problem, low cost low emission technology will.<p>
We should increase R&amp;D two orders of magnitude to $90 billion per year, push every technology as hard as possible, build prototypes of everything, publish the results and let the utilities choose the technology that best meets our needs.<p>
Adding 2.25 cents to the cost of each kWh will pay for it.

<p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #7 by Pangolin</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/a-decarbonization-story-part-1/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 18:01:46 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/a-decarbonization-story-part-1/7</guid>
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				<p><strong>Economics vs Thermodynamics<p>"Economics" keeps telling us that wind or solar power is a bad investment. It just isn't true. The economy uses a form of monopoly money called US dollars that is essentially fictional and allocated preferentially to the oligarchs that control the banking system. They do whatever they feel will increase their own status and power with it. Right now, status and power is not perceived to be attached to wind or solar power hence there is a &nbsp;disinclination to invest in these systems in favor of oil, gas and coal. The basic unit of economics is a fictional control token.<p>
Thermodynamics tells us that there are "external" costs to burning oil, gas, and coal. In essence we are burning coal in a domed city. Long before the fumes choke us out we will spend as much energy dealing with the damage of the coal smoke as we get from burning coal. The time gap where the damage comes after the burning doesn't change the fact that if you keep burning coal in a domed city eventually you will kill everyone inside the dome. The final status of all residents of the dome is equal: dead due to coal burning. The basis of thermodynamics is physics. Unlike economics you don't get to change the physics in a meeting of political insiders. <p>
Reality is moving far closer to the second scenario than the first every day.<p>
The EROI of well sited wind power is at least 20:1. By any standard of thermodynamics that amounts to "free." &nbsp;Windmill A1 yields enough energy to build B1 through T1 and then they all yield enough to build &nbsp;more until you get bored of building windmills or run out of good sites. Of course other factors will come into play but that's the simple version.<p>
The thermodynamics of dozens of conservation programs are even better. Insulation and weatherproofing is far cheaper than hauling firewood. Building with super-insulating materials like straw bale is cheaper still. Likewise heating and cooling with a ground source heat pump is cheaper than burning coal. <p>
A thick walled cob house is cheaper than all that since once built it can easily last 500 years and is easily heated past the comfort level by a cast-iron, wood-fired, cook stove. New wood-gas stoves use a fraction of the fuel that most rural people use for cooking; they're "free" solutions thermodynamically. Wrapping your house in compressed straw panels would probably be "free." <p>
Bicycles are cheaper than almost anything since they require less energy to move a human than walking. Riding a bicycle is the thermodynamic equivalent of floating downstream on a barge your whole life; the return is better than actually doing nothing if you count health benefits. &nbsp;<p>
A <a href="http://www.jpods.com" rel="nofollow">personal rapid transit system would be cheaper to build than the current maintenance costs of our asphalt and concrete roads. A 12 inch steel monorail is much cheaper than 25 feet of asphalt by any standard. Electricity cheaper than gas, shared pods far cheaper than cars. That would be effectively "free." <p>
Permaculture activists have proven that food is abundantly available to much of the human race with a bit of knowledge and planning and shockingly little work. Dig a pond and you get fish, geese and ducks from it forever; get some beaver to dam a stream and you get the same result for free. Chestnuts are "free" thermodynamically as is mulberry, blackberry, leeks, mustard greens, acorns (and acorn fed pork) apples, walnuts, almonds, pears, quince (quince are just silly prolific) potatos, sunflowers, deer, buffalo, geese, and rabbits. Salmon used to be free before we poisoned, polluted and damned their rivers. Cod were "free" when we limited our fishing to wooden boats with hemp sails and lines. <p>
Birth control is "free" if you have a lemon tree ;~) actually if we all use it well then lots of other things become energetically cheaper since we don't have to compete with other humans for them.<p>
So understanding that we can get electric energy, heating and cooling, housing, food and transportation for "free" thermodynamically we continue to live inside the death dome; because the economists tell us that it's too "expensive." <p>
Come again? <p>
<strong>How long will it take us to figure out that the economists are insane? Wind power or solar thermal power is cheaper than coal once you factor in the cost of emissions. Even if you escape the cost of emissions financially, as an investor, you or your descendants will pay by living in the death dome. We cannot burn fossil fuels in a closed system at all anymore and the earth is effectively a closed system. <p>
There's a "free" world out there if we just reach for it. As the chinese are now learning; money cannot buy you a new set of lungs and you can't eat gold if your grain fields are under concrete. Think about it; if your beach house has no beach and the mountain place is a fire trap what good is &nbsp;it? <p>
It's past time we started looking for real solutions. Letting insane people make decisions for us is simply not working. &nbsp;

<p><a href="http://putcarbonback.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">Put  the Carbon Back</a></p></p></p></strong></p></p></p></p></p></a></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Economics vs Thermodynamics<p>"Economics" keeps telling us that wind or solar power is a bad investment. It just isn't true. The economy uses a form of monopoly money called US dollars that is essentially fictional and allocated preferentially to the oligarchs that control the banking system. They do whatever they feel will increase their own status and power with it. Right now, status and power is not perceived to be attached to wind or solar power hence there is a &nbsp;disinclination to invest in these systems in favor of oil, gas and coal. The basic unit of economics is a fictional control token.<p>
Thermodynamics tells us that there are "external" costs to burning oil, gas, and coal. In essence we are burning coal in a domed city. Long before the fumes choke us out we will spend as much energy dealing with the damage of the coal smoke as we get from burning coal. The time gap where the damage comes after the burning doesn't change the fact that if you keep burning coal in a domed city eventually you will kill everyone inside the dome. The final status of all residents of the dome is equal: dead due to coal burning. The basis of thermodynamics is physics. Unlike economics you don't get to change the physics in a meeting of political insiders. <p>
Reality is moving far closer to the second scenario than the first every day.<p>
The EROI of well sited wind power is at least 20:1. By any standard of thermodynamics that amounts to "free." &nbsp;Windmill A1 yields enough energy to build B1 through T1 and then they all yield enough to build &nbsp;more until you get bored of building windmills or run out of good sites. Of course other factors will come into play but that's the simple version.<p>
The thermodynamics of dozens of conservation programs are even better. Insulation and weatherproofing is far cheaper than hauling firewood. Building with super-insulating materials like straw bale is cheaper still. Likewise heating and cooling with a ground source heat pump is cheaper than burning coal. <p>
A thick walled cob house is cheaper than all that since once built it can easily last 500 years and is easily heated past the comfort level by a cast-iron, wood-fired, cook stove. New wood-gas stoves use a fraction of the fuel that most rural people use for cooking; they're "free" solutions thermodynamically. Wrapping your house in compressed straw panels would probably be "free." <p>
Bicycles are cheaper than almost anything since they require less energy to move a human than walking. Riding a bicycle is the thermodynamic equivalent of floating downstream on a barge your whole life; the return is better than actually doing nothing if you count health benefits. &nbsp;<p>
A <a href="http://www.jpods.com" rel="nofollow">personal rapid transit system would be cheaper to build than the current maintenance costs of our asphalt and concrete roads. A 12 inch steel monorail is much cheaper than 25 feet of asphalt by any standard. Electricity cheaper than gas, shared pods far cheaper than cars. That would be effectively "free." <p>
Permaculture activists have proven that food is abundantly available to much of the human race with a bit of knowledge and planning and shockingly little work. Dig a pond and you get fish, geese and ducks from it forever; get some beaver to dam a stream and you get the same result for free. Chestnuts are "free" thermodynamically as is mulberry, blackberry, leeks, mustard greens, acorns (and acorn fed pork) apples, walnuts, almonds, pears, quince (quince are just silly prolific) potatos, sunflowers, deer, buffalo, geese, and rabbits. Salmon used to be free before we poisoned, polluted and damned their rivers. Cod were "free" when we limited our fishing to wooden boats with hemp sails and lines. <p>
Birth control is "free" if you have a lemon tree ;~) actually if we all use it well then lots of other things become energetically cheaper since we don't have to compete with other humans for them.<p>
So understanding that we can get electric energy, heating and cooling, housing, food and transportation for "free" thermodynamically we continue to live inside the death dome; because the economists tell us that it's too "expensive." <p>
Come again? <p>
<strong>How long will it take us to figure out that the economists are insane? Wind power or solar thermal power is cheaper than coal once you factor in the cost of emissions. Even if you escape the cost of emissions financially, as an investor, you or your descendants will pay by living in the death dome. We cannot burn fossil fuels in a closed system at all anymore and the earth is effectively a closed system. <p>
There's a "free" world out there if we just reach for it. As the chinese are now learning; money cannot buy you a new set of lungs and you can't eat gold if your grain fields are under concrete. Think about it; if your beach house has no beach and the mountain place is a fire trap what good is &nbsp;it? <p>
It's past time we started looking for real solutions. Letting insane people make decisions for us is simply not working. &nbsp;

<p><a href="http://putcarbonback.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">Put  the Carbon Back</a></p></p></p></strong></p></p></p></p></p></a></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #8 by ArthurLemay</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/a-decarbonization-story-part-1/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 23:52:19 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/a-decarbonization-story-part-1/8</guid>
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				<p><strong>Why are we doing this Environmental stuff?</strong></p><p>Recently, three climate scientists (one a Nobel Laureate) wrote a letter to the Chairman of the IPCC suggesting he produce any scientific evidence, not even proof, that the Greenhouse Gas effect, and especially CO2, controlled the world's climate, or lacking that, perhaps he should admit that the IPCC was wrong.</p><p>
Most climate scientists believe it is the variations in the sun's radiation which is the prime driver of climate and the Greenhouse Gas effect of CO2 is very small. &nbsp;</p><p>
I have wondered about the CO2 theory myself because all the predictions made by the computer models were wrong in the short term, and when 20th century actual data was run on all the climate models they all incorrectly predicted world temperatures much higher than we can measure with satellites.</p><p>
Now it seems unbelievable that the IPCC could possibly think that models which cannot predict short term trends should be trusted to be used for justifying trillions of dollars in fighting global warming, based on long term forecasts. &nbsp;It seems they are being arrogant and unrealistic to trust the models, or they are lying about it to keep grant money coming in.</p><p>
The crux of the IPCC recommendations is that we reduce our CO2 emissions by at least 25% to 80%. &nbsp;But, at &nbsp;current energy prices poor people all over the world are rioting in the streets because they are hungry. &nbsp;Now, energy demand is not very elastic, and in the UK where energy is twice as expensive as in the US, there has not, seemingly, been much reduction in auto use. So, perhaps gasoline and diesel need to go to three times the price even to hit the 25% goal. &nbsp;At $12 a gallon we will see rioting in the streets in the developed world, and perhaps some Environmentalists might even be lynched. &nbsp;</p><p>
Renewable power is not very useful: bio fuels produce more CO2 than petroleum, solar does not work at night, and wind does not produce power when it is not blowing. And, because the power grid cannot store energy, traditional power plants are still needed to assure a reliable supply. </p><p>
This, and the absolutely outrageous real estate demands, i.e. hundreds of square miles of solar antennas, thousands of miles for wind farms, make me ask: "where &nbsp;can we put it all without making the Environmentalists furious." &nbsp;The only answer is nuclear power, but that is a non-starter too because of the Environmentalists' phobia. &nbsp;Like fusion power, renewable power feasibility has been 10 years away for 50 years and it is no closer now. Renewables need an order of magnitude improvement in efficiency, and it will take years to do this.</p><p>
So, if the IPCC cannot even make a feeble defense of their theory, since their predictions are all wrong, since the solution they recommend to reduce CO2 is useless, and since it is a draconian solution which will cause a major economic depression, and since renewables cannot replace very much of hydrocarbons we use, and we have hundreds of years supply of oil, coal, oil-sands, and nuclear power, can anyone tell me why in hell are we doing this?</p><p>
The only sensible answer is that the Environmentalists are anti-capitalists, anarchists, anti-human, and want to lower our standard of living so that a utopian civilization run by benevolent despots (the Environmentalists, the new Bolsheviks)can arise from the evil of free-enterprise, or they are doing it for the carbon tax and trading money. </p>
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				<p><strong>Why are we doing this Environmental stuff?</strong></p><p>Recently, three climate scientists (one a Nobel Laureate) wrote a letter to the Chairman of the IPCC suggesting he produce any scientific evidence, not even proof, that the Greenhouse Gas effect, and especially CO2, controlled the world's climate, or lacking that, perhaps he should admit that the IPCC was wrong.</p><p>
Most climate scientists believe it is the variations in the sun's radiation which is the prime driver of climate and the Greenhouse Gas effect of CO2 is very small. &nbsp;</p><p>
I have wondered about the CO2 theory myself because all the predictions made by the computer models were wrong in the short term, and when 20th century actual data was run on all the climate models they all incorrectly predicted world temperatures much higher than we can measure with satellites.</p><p>
Now it seems unbelievable that the IPCC could possibly think that models which cannot predict short term trends should be trusted to be used for justifying trillions of dollars in fighting global warming, based on long term forecasts. &nbsp;It seems they are being arrogant and unrealistic to trust the models, or they are lying about it to keep grant money coming in.</p><p>
The crux of the IPCC recommendations is that we reduce our CO2 emissions by at least 25% to 80%. &nbsp;But, at &nbsp;current energy prices poor people all over the world are rioting in the streets because they are hungry. &nbsp;Now, energy demand is not very elastic, and in the UK where energy is twice as expensive as in the US, there has not, seemingly, been much reduction in auto use. So, perhaps gasoline and diesel need to go to three times the price even to hit the 25% goal. &nbsp;At $12 a gallon we will see rioting in the streets in the developed world, and perhaps some Environmentalists might even be lynched. &nbsp;</p><p>
Renewable power is not very useful: bio fuels produce more CO2 than petroleum, solar does not work at night, and wind does not produce power when it is not blowing. And, because the power grid cannot store energy, traditional power plants are still needed to assure a reliable supply. </p><p>
This, and the absolutely outrageous real estate demands, i.e. hundreds of square miles of solar antennas, thousands of miles for wind farms, make me ask: "where &nbsp;can we put it all without making the Environmentalists furious." &nbsp;The only answer is nuclear power, but that is a non-starter too because of the Environmentalists' phobia. &nbsp;Like fusion power, renewable power feasibility has been 10 years away for 50 years and it is no closer now. Renewables need an order of magnitude improvement in efficiency, and it will take years to do this.</p><p>
So, if the IPCC cannot even make a feeble defense of their theory, since their predictions are all wrong, since the solution they recommend to reduce CO2 is useless, and since it is a draconian solution which will cause a major economic depression, and since renewables cannot replace very much of hydrocarbons we use, and we have hundreds of years supply of oil, coal, oil-sands, and nuclear power, can anyone tell me why in hell are we doing this?</p><p>
The only sensible answer is that the Environmentalists are anti-capitalists, anarchists, anti-human, and want to lower our standard of living so that a utopian civilization run by benevolent despots (the Environmentalists, the new Bolsheviks)can arise from the evil of free-enterprise, or they are doing it for the carbon tax and trading money. </p>
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            <title>Comment #9 by Jon Rynn</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/a-decarbonization-story-part-1/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 01:35:11 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/a-decarbonization-story-part-1/9</guid>
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				<p><strong>Pangolin --</strong></p><p>Can you put that comment on your web site?</p><p>
Thanks.</p>
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				<p><strong>Pangolin --</strong></p><p>Can you put that comment on your web site?</p><p>
Thanks.</p>
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            <title>Comment #10 by amazingdrx</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/a-decarbonization-story-part-1/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 04:07:56 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/a-decarbonization-story-part-1/10</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Yep pang!</strong></p><p>&nbsp;Monopoly money, currency (regulation) of, by, and for monopoly corporations (yur doin' a heackuva job 'nanke).</p><p>
"The economy uses a form of monopoly money called US dollars that is essentially fictional and allocated preferentially to the oligarchs that control the banking system. They do whatever they feel will increase their own status and power with it."</p><p>
The proof is that even as peak oilers scream &nbsp;about the end of oil, the main reason for higher gas prices (and fertilizr, and shipping, and everything else) is inflation/erosion of our currency.</p><p>
Fewer jobs, fewer exports, weaker economy, more debt... &nbsp;weak dollar. &nbsp;Results in fewer barrels of oil per amount of (devalued) dollars.</p><p>
Our only way out? &nbsp;Renewable energy re-evolution. &nbsp;To revive our economy and stop inflation. &nbsp;And save the planet. &nbsp;There's your stimulus. &nbsp;</p><p>
But the danger is that the mainstream political/corporate/media forces want to hand the re-evolution over to the same old monopolists. &nbsp;with hedge fund carbon trading. &nbsp;and caps that can be removed at anytime.</p><p>
The people fund, money for people. &nbsp;That's the right course. &nbsp;Subsidy checks direct to homeowners and farmers. &nbsp;For GHG free solar, wind, and biogas kwhs.

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog</p></p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Yep pang!</strong></p><p>&nbsp;Monopoly money, currency (regulation) of, by, and for monopoly corporations (yur doin' a heackuva job 'nanke).</p><p>
"The economy uses a form of monopoly money called US dollars that is essentially fictional and allocated preferentially to the oligarchs that control the banking system. They do whatever they feel will increase their own status and power with it."</p><p>
The proof is that even as peak oilers scream &nbsp;about the end of oil, the main reason for higher gas prices (and fertilizr, and shipping, and everything else) is inflation/erosion of our currency.</p><p>
Fewer jobs, fewer exports, weaker economy, more debt... &nbsp;weak dollar. &nbsp;Results in fewer barrels of oil per amount of (devalued) dollars.</p><p>
Our only way out? &nbsp;Renewable energy re-evolution. &nbsp;To revive our economy and stop inflation. &nbsp;And save the planet. &nbsp;There's your stimulus. &nbsp;</p><p>
But the danger is that the mainstream political/corporate/media forces want to hand the re-evolution over to the same old monopolists. &nbsp;with hedge fund carbon trading. &nbsp;and caps that can be removed at anytime.</p><p>
The people fund, money for people. &nbsp;That's the right course. &nbsp;Subsidy checks direct to homeowners and farmers. &nbsp;For GHG free solar, wind, and biogas kwhs.

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog</p></p>
			]]></content:encoded>
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