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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for I&#8217;m having a cow over beef-tallow biodiesel]]></title>
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            <title>Comment #1 by Erik Hoffner</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/Worst-idea-ever/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 00:41:34 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/Worst-idea-ever/1</guid>
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				<p><strong>hmm<p>Same argument animal rights folks have made regarding leather, seems to me. Do you hate leather too, JMG? <p>
Erik

<p><a href="http://www.oriongrassroots.org" rel="nofollow">The Orion Grassroots Network: supporting grassroots groups working for conservation, justice, &amp; more
</a></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>hmm<p>Same argument animal rights folks have made regarding leather, seems to me. Do you hate leather too, JMG? <p>
Erik

<p><a href="http://www.oriongrassroots.org" rel="nofollow">The Orion Grassroots Network: supporting grassroots groups working for conservation, justice, &amp; more
</a></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by Tom Philpott</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/Worst-idea-ever/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 00:58:05 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/Worst-idea-ever/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>Leather<p>I see what you're saying, Erik; but leather is an old and established market. It's completely priced in and accounted for in the profits of the meat companies. what John is talking about is the rigging up of a new market -- one that will <strong>add profitability to an environmentally ruinous business model. <p>
I did a similar post in '07 on the the effort to make biodiesel out of CAFO chicken fat in the southeast: <a href="http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2007/1/3/19711/73095" rel="nofollow">http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2007/1/3/19711/73095

<p><a href="http://www.grist.org/topic/Victual_Reality" rel="nofollow">Victual Reality</a></p></a></p></strong></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Leather<p>I see what you're saying, Erik; but leather is an old and established market. It's completely priced in and accounted for in the profits of the meat companies. what John is talking about is the rigging up of a new market -- one that will <strong>add profitability to an environmentally ruinous business model. <p>
I did a similar post in '07 on the the effort to make biodiesel out of CAFO chicken fat in the southeast: <a href="http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2007/1/3/19711/73095" rel="nofollow">http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2007/1/3/19711/73095

<p><a href="http://www.grist.org/topic/Victual_Reality" rel="nofollow">Victual Reality</a></p></a></p></strong></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by Pompey Road</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/Worst-idea-ever/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 01:38:58 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/Worst-idea-ever/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>Where is the Beef:</strong></p><p>Novel idea, following a car or truck that smells like a steak house.</p><p>
We need to get rid of the fat, this may be a good way to do it.</p><p>
Looks better in a fuel tank than on Amaerica's butt.

<p>The eons of time and nature was good to us down here. It was not until we become civilized that destroying our habitat become fathomable or fashionable.</p></p>
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				<p><strong>Where is the Beef:</strong></p><p>Novel idea, following a car or truck that smells like a steak house.</p><p>
We need to get rid of the fat, this may be a good way to do it.</p><p>
Looks better in a fuel tank than on Amaerica's butt.

<p>The eons of time and nature was good to us down here. It was not until we become civilized that destroying our habitat become fathomable or fashionable.</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by sindark</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/Worst-idea-ever/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 02:14:27 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/Worst-idea-ever/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>Opportunity cost<p>If the fat would actually be discarded otherwise, this is probably a net-positive use for it.<p>
What better options are there for using the tallow?

<p><a href="http://www.sindark.com/" rel="nofollow">a sibilant intake of breath</a></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Opportunity cost<p>If the fat would actually be discarded otherwise, this is probably a net-positive use for it.<p>
What better options are there for using the tallow?

<p><a href="http://www.sindark.com/" rel="nofollow">a sibilant intake of breath</a></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by Ted Clayton</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/Worst-idea-ever/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 03:30:50 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/Worst-idea-ever/5</guid>
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				<p><strong>Think global, act local</strong></p><p>It would seem that Calgary has a fairly Calgary-specific problem/opportunity with beef tallow. &nbsp;Yeah, the same conditions arise in other specific beef-processing settings, but it's not like we're looking at a domino-effect with world markets rushing to Exxon-up beef tallow.</p><p>
It's a local initiative for a local problem - good on 'em.</p><p>
Going local is not getting as high a profile as I'd like to see. &nbsp;Arizona should do sun (for Arizona, not San Diego), Kansas should do wind (for Kansas' business-base, not Houston's), the Pacific Northwest does hydro - and keeps it for their own uses. &nbsp;It's the globalization of market-control that seems to generate a lot of the downside in modern economies.</p><p>
Make more effort to keep things local, a lot of the stupid will fall out of the system.</p>
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				<p><strong>Think global, act local</strong></p><p>It would seem that Calgary has a fairly Calgary-specific problem/opportunity with beef tallow. &nbsp;Yeah, the same conditions arise in other specific beef-processing settings, but it's not like we're looking at a domino-effect with world markets rushing to Exxon-up beef tallow.</p><p>
It's a local initiative for a local problem - good on 'em.</p><p>
Going local is not getting as high a profile as I'd like to see. &nbsp;Arizona should do sun (for Arizona, not San Diego), Kansas should do wind (for Kansas' business-base, not Houston's), the Pacific Northwest does hydro - and keeps it for their own uses. &nbsp;It's the globalization of market-control that seems to generate a lot of the downside in modern economies.</p><p>
Make more effort to keep things local, a lot of the stupid will fall out of the system.</p>
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            <title>Comment #6 by amazingdrx</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/Worst-idea-ever/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 03:41:14 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/Worst-idea-ever/6</guid>
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				<p><strong>Waste stream fuel</strong></p><p>Waste stream fuel has a different source and justification than fuel farming. &nbsp;Raising animals to get fat for biodiesel would be titanically wasteful. &nbsp;But using waste stream fat to make biodiesel saves GHG and land space normally devoted to fuel production.</p><p>
But can a whole gas guzzling energy economy run off the waste stream? &nbsp;No way. &nbsp;The bad part of this fat fuel effort is it gives the impression that it can, delaying real solutions like plugin hybrids and electric mass transit.</p><p>
The really effective waste stream fuel is biogas, it produces organic fertilizer and can backup a renewable power grid. &nbsp;

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog     John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin </p></p>
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				<p><strong>Waste stream fuel</strong></p><p>Waste stream fuel has a different source and justification than fuel farming. &nbsp;Raising animals to get fat for biodiesel would be titanically wasteful. &nbsp;But using waste stream fat to make biodiesel saves GHG and land space normally devoted to fuel production.</p><p>
But can a whole gas guzzling energy economy run off the waste stream? &nbsp;No way. &nbsp;The bad part of this fat fuel effort is it gives the impression that it can, delaying real solutions like plugin hybrids and electric mass transit.</p><p>
The really effective waste stream fuel is biogas, it produces organic fertilizer and can backup a renewable power grid. &nbsp;

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog     John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin </p></p>
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            <title>Comment #7 by Pompey Road</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/Worst-idea-ever/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 06:40:51 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/Worst-idea-ever/7</guid>
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				<p><strong>OOP's</strong></p><p>I thought the fat to be used was just waste left over from beef processing.</p><p>
I agree raising Cattle just for tallow or fat would be an expensive waste for a fuel.</p><p>
Almost as bad as corn ethanol!</p><p>
Are they ever going to cut the subsidy on that and take the tarrif off sugar cane ethanol? </p><p>
A genetic tweaked sorghum could be grown all the way up to northern states and is efficient as Sugar Cane as a fuel. Using a less efficient food stock as a fuel and taxing its competition out of existance is the work of a dedicated corn lobby. </p><p>
Even if you don't like agri fuels Sugar Cane Makes more sense than beef tallow or corn.

<p>The eons of time and nature was good to us down here. It was not until we become civilized that destroying our habitat become fathomable or fashionable.</p></p>
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				<p><strong>OOP's</strong></p><p>I thought the fat to be used was just waste left over from beef processing.</p><p>
I agree raising Cattle just for tallow or fat would be an expensive waste for a fuel.</p><p>
Almost as bad as corn ethanol!</p><p>
Are they ever going to cut the subsidy on that and take the tarrif off sugar cane ethanol? </p><p>
A genetic tweaked sorghum could be grown all the way up to northern states and is efficient as Sugar Cane as a fuel. Using a less efficient food stock as a fuel and taxing its competition out of existance is the work of a dedicated corn lobby. </p><p>
Even if you don't like agri fuels Sugar Cane Makes more sense than beef tallow or corn.

<p>The eons of time and nature was good to us down here. It was not until we become civilized that destroying our habitat become fathomable or fashionable.</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #8 by Erik Hoffner</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/Worst-idea-ever/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 06:52:55 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/Worst-idea-ever/8</guid>
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				<p><strong>waste<p>Pompey, no, the tallow is waste, no one grows cows just for tallow. Tallow is the fat and gristle that are boiled off the bones and carcasses of butchered animals. Tallow has lots of uses, including bird food (suet), for cooking (yuk), in cosmetics (gross), and as a lubricant, but I don't know why people need to poo-poo its use in biodiesel. So what if it's a finite resource? Still a good idea to make fuel with it.<p>
Erik

<p><a href="http://www.oriongrassroots.org" rel="nofollow">The Orion Grassroots Network: supporting grassroots groups working for conservation, justice, &amp; more
</a></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>waste<p>Pompey, no, the tallow is waste, no one grows cows just for tallow. Tallow is the fat and gristle that are boiled off the bones and carcasses of butchered animals. Tallow has lots of uses, including bird food (suet), for cooking (yuk), in cosmetics (gross), and as a lubricant, but I don't know why people need to poo-poo its use in biodiesel. So what if it's a finite resource? Still a good idea to make fuel with it.<p>
Erik

<p><a href="http://www.oriongrassroots.org" rel="nofollow">The Orion Grassroots Network: supporting grassroots groups working for conservation, justice, &amp; more
</a></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #9 by Pompey Road</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/Worst-idea-ever/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 07:04:43 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/Worst-idea-ever/9</guid>
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				<p><strong>Plains Indians:</strong></p><p>Excuse me, indigenous American people used every part of the Buffalo. Wasted nothing.</p><p>
The early settlers in Appalachia had the same mindset. When they slaughtered a hog they used everything but the squeal!</p><p>
Waste product tallow to biofuel would follow the same line of thinking to me as the animals will be raised for food anyway. Why not take some extra revenue and increase profifs while decreasing the demand for Middle Eastern Oil.

<p>The eons of time and nature was good to us down here. It was not until we become civilized that destroying our habitat become fathomable or fashionable.</p></p>
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				<p><strong>Plains Indians:</strong></p><p>Excuse me, indigenous American people used every part of the Buffalo. Wasted nothing.</p><p>
The early settlers in Appalachia had the same mindset. When they slaughtered a hog they used everything but the squeal!</p><p>
Waste product tallow to biofuel would follow the same line of thinking to me as the animals will be raised for food anyway. Why not take some extra revenue and increase profifs while decreasing the demand for Middle Eastern Oil.

<p>The eons of time and nature was good to us down here. It was not until we become civilized that destroying our habitat become fathomable or fashionable.</p></p>
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