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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Push continues for more green infrastructure funding in the economic-stimulus package]]></title>
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            <title>Comment #1 by Jon Rynn</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/Stim-and-vigor/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 00:22:52 -0800</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Thanks Kate</strong></p><p>Keep up the good work reporting about the infrastructure, it's a critical topic that isn't sufficiently covered in the mainstream press.</p><p>
I think Obama has half-digested Van Jones, who always talks about how green jobs that would involve retrofitting and installing solar panels could not be outsourced. &nbsp;Obama has sort of grafted the wind turbines part onto that, and of course those can be outsourced.</p><p>
According to the WTO, if the government subsidizes wind turbine production, it cannot then turn around and demand domestic content, that is, if it gives money to domestic firms to help them get a leg up, it can't also insist that everybody buy from those firms. &nbsp;unless the things being built are considered "general infrastructure", which is another reason why transit would be an easier way to stimulate the economy.</p><p>
A number of foreign manufacturers now have headquarters in the US,and are setting up factories here, so it should not be that difficult to keep turbine manufacturing here.</p>
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				<p><strong>Thanks Kate</strong></p><p>Keep up the good work reporting about the infrastructure, it's a critical topic that isn't sufficiently covered in the mainstream press.</p><p>
I think Obama has half-digested Van Jones, who always talks about how green jobs that would involve retrofitting and installing solar panels could not be outsourced. &nbsp;Obama has sort of grafted the wind turbines part onto that, and of course those can be outsourced.</p><p>
According to the WTO, if the government subsidizes wind turbine production, it cannot then turn around and demand domestic content, that is, if it gives money to domestic firms to help them get a leg up, it can't also insist that everybody buy from those firms. &nbsp;unless the things being built are considered "general infrastructure", which is another reason why transit would be an easier way to stimulate the economy.</p><p>
A number of foreign manufacturers now have headquarters in the US,and are setting up factories here, so it should not be that difficult to keep turbine manufacturing here.</p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by cheflovesbeer</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/Stim-and-vigor/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 04:30:13 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/Stim-and-vigor/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>outsourcing</strong></p><p>(who still hasn't explained exactly why wind turbines and solar panels can't be constructed elsewhere).</p><p>
Yes the panel and turbines can be built elsewhere, however they are not at present. It cost a lot to move turbines because they are bulky. So most will be made in or near the planes states. Also, once the wind farm or solar farm is built, it will not be outsourced. Wind and solar farms also employ more people than a coal plant. </p>
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				<p><strong>outsourcing</strong></p><p>(who still hasn't explained exactly why wind turbines and solar panels can't be constructed elsewhere).</p><p>
Yes the panel and turbines can be built elsewhere, however they are not at present. It cost a lot to move turbines because they are bulky. So most will be made in or near the planes states. Also, once the wind farm or solar farm is built, it will not be outsourced. Wind and solar farms also employ more people than a coal plant. </p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by Tasermons Partner</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/Stim-and-vigor/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 12:46:38 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/Stim-and-vigor/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>Statistics?</strong></p><p>Yes the panel and turbines can be built elsewhere, however they are not at present.</p><p>
I'm not so sure 'bout that. &nbsp;Several ports in Texas import wind turbines, and they keep it up at a pretty regular pace.</p><p>
Are there any statistics on foreign vs. domestic manufactured panels or turbines?</p>
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				<p><strong>Statistics?</strong></p><p>Yes the panel and turbines can be built elsewhere, however they are not at present.</p><p>
I'm not so sure 'bout that. &nbsp;Several ports in Texas import wind turbines, and they keep it up at a pretty regular pace.</p><p>
Are there any statistics on foreign vs. domestic manufactured panels or turbines?</p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by Bob Wallace</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/Stim-and-vigor/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 14:03:38 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/Stim-and-vigor/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>I'm wondering...</strong></p><p>How labor intensive are turbine and panel manufacture? &nbsp;Sure, we import a lot of ready to wear, as labor is a very large part of that &nbsp;product, but turbines and panels?</p><p>
Right now Asian and European car manufactures have opened plants in the US, finding that they can make as much or more profit using US labor. &nbsp;Shipping costs are not insignificant.</p><p>
(China might be able to build and ship with their lower labor costs.) </p><p>
Thin film solar such as the roll printing like the &nbsp;Nanosolar process does not seem to require much labor. &nbsp;They are producing in the Silicon Valley area (not a cheap labor place) and shipping rolls to Germany for assembly into panels. &nbsp;</p><p>
This would argue that shipping costs outweigh labor costs when it comes to solar. &nbsp;(Otherwise they would probably manufacture film and shipped finished panels from a cheap labor country.</p><p>
Simply speculation....</p>
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				<p><strong>I'm wondering...</strong></p><p>How labor intensive are turbine and panel manufacture? &nbsp;Sure, we import a lot of ready to wear, as labor is a very large part of that &nbsp;product, but turbines and panels?</p><p>
Right now Asian and European car manufactures have opened plants in the US, finding that they can make as much or more profit using US labor. &nbsp;Shipping costs are not insignificant.</p><p>
(China might be able to build and ship with their lower labor costs.) </p><p>
Thin film solar such as the roll printing like the &nbsp;Nanosolar process does not seem to require much labor. &nbsp;They are producing in the Silicon Valley area (not a cheap labor place) and shipping rolls to Germany for assembly into panels. &nbsp;</p><p>
This would argue that shipping costs outweigh labor costs when it comes to solar. &nbsp;(Otherwise they would probably manufacture film and shipped finished panels from a cheap labor country.</p><p>
Simply speculation....</p>
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