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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Planting trees and managing soils to sequester carbon]]></title>
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            <title>Comment #1 by Pompey Road</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/See-the-reforest-for-the-trees/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 09:44:54 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/See-the-reforest-for-the-trees/1</guid>
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				<p><strong>Carbon Capture Begins At  Home:</strong></p><p>&nbsp; &nbsp; Environmentalist may be able to replant the clear cut forest of South America. The soil is sensitive and I do not know if this would ever be a viable project or not. I do know that they not only clear cut and burn our deciduous forest in Appalachia but blow the tops of the mountains off and push the overburden over into a valley. There is no way it can ever be reclaimed, the valley or hollow especially. Once buried under several hundred feet of rock debris the valley can never be restored.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; The Amazon Rain forest gets more attention than the Appalachian Forest. I guess it may seem more sheik or PC to talk about the Brazilian forest but I can't under stand why environmentalist give them so much attention while our deciduous forest are being not only clear cut but the topsoil blown or scrapped off. I have no idea how much co2 the Appalachian Forest capture or sets during the spring through fall season. The methane gas from the rotting forest floor may offset what carbon they capture. A quick Google Earth tour of East Ky. And W.Va. Will give you an indication of the scope of the problem. Environmental attention and action should begin at home. I doubt U.S. Environmentalist will have much influence on foreign governments especially when they can't even stop deforestation in their home country.<br>


<p>The eons of time and nature was good to us down here. It was not until we become civilized that destroying our habitat become fathomable or fashionable.</p></br></br></p>
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				<p><strong>Carbon Capture Begins At  Home:</strong></p><p>&nbsp; &nbsp; Environmentalist may be able to replant the clear cut forest of South America. The soil is sensitive and I do not know if this would ever be a viable project or not. I do know that they not only clear cut and burn our deciduous forest in Appalachia but blow the tops of the mountains off and push the overburden over into a valley. There is no way it can ever be reclaimed, the valley or hollow especially. Once buried under several hundred feet of rock debris the valley can never be restored.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; The Amazon Rain forest gets more attention than the Appalachian Forest. I guess it may seem more sheik or PC to talk about the Brazilian forest but I can't under stand why environmentalist give them so much attention while our deciduous forest are being not only clear cut but the topsoil blown or scrapped off. I have no idea how much co2 the Appalachian Forest capture or sets during the spring through fall season. The methane gas from the rotting forest floor may offset what carbon they capture. A quick Google Earth tour of East Ky. And W.Va. Will give you an indication of the scope of the problem. Environmental attention and action should begin at home. I doubt U.S. Environmentalist will have much influence on foreign governments especially when they can't even stop deforestation in their home country.<br>


<p>The eons of time and nature was good to us down here. It was not until we become civilized that destroying our habitat become fathomable or fashionable.</p></br></br></p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by erich</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/See-the-reforest-for-the-trees/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 10:43:00 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/See-the-reforest-for-the-trees/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>Changing World Technologies<p>Changing World Technologies<p>
Ultimately we must leave the combustion age behind. Charcoal to the soil is a bridging first step as other energy conversion technologies bloom from Nano and bio reasearch. Thankfully we can do TP now.<p>
Oil interest must come to see the overwhelming value of their carbon as the feedstock for the manufacture ( via carbon nanotubes, fullerines, DNA programed nano self assembly, &nbsp;etc.) of virtually all things in the near future.<p>
This convergences of different technologies will end the Combustion age.<p>
TP starts as a soil nano technology with increased CEC, than a micro tech with our wee- beasties / fungus, and macro with bugs and worms.<p>
Changing World Technologies<p>
Ultimately we must leave the combustion age behind. Charcoal to the soil is a bridging first step as other energy conversion technologies bloom from Nano and bio reasearch. Thankfully we can do TP now.<p>
Oil interest must come to see the overwhelming value of their carbon as the feedstock for the manufacture ( via carbon nanotubes, fullerines, DNA programed nano self assembly, etc.) of virtually all things in the near future.<p>
This convergences of different technologies will end the Combustion age.<p>
Terra Preta starts as a soil nano technology with increased CEC, than a micro tech with our wee- beasties / fungus, and macro with bugs and worms.<p>
Biotic Carbon, the carbon transformed by life, should never be combusted, oxidized and destroyed. It deserves more respect, reverence even, and understanding to use it back to the soil where 2/3 of excess atmospheric carbon originally came from.<p>
We all know we are carbon-centered life, we seldom think about the complex web of recycled bio-carbon which is the true center of life. A cradle to cradle, mutually co-evolved biosphere reaching into every crack and crevice on Earth.<p>
It's hard for most to revere microbes and fungus, but from our toes to our gums (onward), their balanced ecology is our health. The greater earth and soils are just as dependent, at much longer time scales. Our farming for over 10,000 years has been responsible for 2/3rds of our excess greenhouse gases. This soil carbon, converted to carbon dioxide, Methane &amp; Nitrous oxide began a slow stable warming that now accelerates with burning of fossil fuel.<p>
Wise Land management; Organic farming and afforestation can build back our soil carbon,<br>
Biochar allows the soil food web to build much more recalcitrant organic carbon, ( living soil biomass &amp; Glomalins) in addition to the carbon in the biochar.<p>
The recent EU permits granted 3RAgroCarbon , after 4 years of testing show Biochar's massive increase in yields of more than 100%<br>
"Doses: 400 kg / ha - 1000 kg / ha at different horticultural cultivars<br>
Plant height Increase 141 % versus control<br>
Picking yield Increase 630 % versus control<br>
Picking fruit Increase 650 % versus control<br>
Total yield Increase 202 % versus control<br>
Total piece of fruit Increase 171 % versus control<br>
Fruit weight Increase 118 % versus control"<p>
<a href="http://www.3ragrocarbon.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.3ragrocarbon.com<p>
Indeed, Dr. James Hansen, NASA's top Atmospheric authority, is now placing it in the center stage of pro-active solutions for the climate crisis.<br>
<a href="http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0804/0804.1126.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0804/0804.1126.pdf<p>
As Dr. Lehmann at Cornell points out, "Closed-Loop Pyrolysis systems are the only way to make a fuel that is actually carbon negative". and that " a strategy combining biochar with biofuels could ultimately offset 9.5 billion tons of carbon per year-an amount equal to the total current fossil fuel emissions! "<p>
Terra Preta Soils Carbon Negative Bio fuels, massive Carbon sequestration, 10X Lower CH4 &amp; N2O soil emissions, and 3X FertilityToo<p>
This some what orphaned new soil technology speaks to so many different interests and disciplines that it has not been embraced fully by any. I'm sure you will see both the potential of this system and the convergence needed for it's implementation.<p>
The integrated energy strategy offered by Charcoal based Terra Preta Soil technology may<br>
provide the only path to sustain our agricultural and fossil fueled power<br>
structure without climate degradation, other than nuclear power.<p>
Senator / Secretary of Interior Ken Salazar has done the most to nurse this biofuels system in his Biochar provisions in the 07 &amp; 08 farm bill,<br>
<a href="http://www.biochar-international.org/newinformationevents/newlegislation.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.biochar-international.org/newinformationevents ...<p>
POZNAN, Poland, December 10, 2008 - The International Biochar Initiative (IBI) announces that the United Nations Convention to Combat Desertification (UNCCD) has submitted a proposal to include biochar as a mitigation and adaptation technology to be considered in the post-2012-Copenhagen agenda of the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC). A copy of the proposal is posted on the IBI website at<br>
The International Biochar Initiative (IBI).<p>
Carbon to the Soil, the only ubiquitous and economic place to put it.<p>
In a recent National Public Radio interview, Michael Pollan talks about how he was approached by a Democratic party staffer about his New York Times article, The"Farmer &amp; an open letter to the next president concerning U.S. agriculture/energy policy. The staffer wanted Pollan to summarize the article into a page or two to get it into the hands of Barack Obama. Pollan declined, saying that if he could have said everything that needed to be said in two pages, he wouldn't have written 8000 words.<p>
Michael Pollan is well briefed about Biochar technology, but did not include it in his "Farmer &amp; Chief" article to President Obama, (Which he did read &amp; cited in a speech) but I'm sure Biochar will be his 8001th word to him.<p>
Erich<br>
540 289 9750</br></p></p></p></p></br></p></a></br></p></br></br></p></p></p></p></a></br></p></a></p></br></br></br></br></br></br></br></p></br></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Changing World Technologies<p>Changing World Technologies<p>
Ultimately we must leave the combustion age behind. Charcoal to the soil is a bridging first step as other energy conversion technologies bloom from Nano and bio reasearch. Thankfully we can do TP now.<p>
Oil interest must come to see the overwhelming value of their carbon as the feedstock for the manufacture ( via carbon nanotubes, fullerines, DNA programed nano self assembly, &nbsp;etc.) of virtually all things in the near future.<p>
This convergences of different technologies will end the Combustion age.<p>
TP starts as a soil nano technology with increased CEC, than a micro tech with our wee- beasties / fungus, and macro with bugs and worms.<p>
Changing World Technologies<p>
Ultimately we must leave the combustion age behind. Charcoal to the soil is a bridging first step as other energy conversion technologies bloom from Nano and bio reasearch. Thankfully we can do TP now.<p>
Oil interest must come to see the overwhelming value of their carbon as the feedstock for the manufacture ( via carbon nanotubes, fullerines, DNA programed nano self assembly, etc.) of virtually all things in the near future.<p>
This convergences of different technologies will end the Combustion age.<p>
Terra Preta starts as a soil nano technology with increased CEC, than a micro tech with our wee- beasties / fungus, and macro with bugs and worms.<p>
Biotic Carbon, the carbon transformed by life, should never be combusted, oxidized and destroyed. It deserves more respect, reverence even, and understanding to use it back to the soil where 2/3 of excess atmospheric carbon originally came from.<p>
We all know we are carbon-centered life, we seldom think about the complex web of recycled bio-carbon which is the true center of life. A cradle to cradle, mutually co-evolved biosphere reaching into every crack and crevice on Earth.<p>
It's hard for most to revere microbes and fungus, but from our toes to our gums (onward), their balanced ecology is our health. The greater earth and soils are just as dependent, at much longer time scales. Our farming for over 10,000 years has been responsible for 2/3rds of our excess greenhouse gases. This soil carbon, converted to carbon dioxide, Methane &amp; Nitrous oxide began a slow stable warming that now accelerates with burning of fossil fuel.<p>
Wise Land management; Organic farming and afforestation can build back our soil carbon,<br>
Biochar allows the soil food web to build much more recalcitrant organic carbon, ( living soil biomass &amp; Glomalins) in addition to the carbon in the biochar.<p>
The recent EU permits granted 3RAgroCarbon , after 4 years of testing show Biochar's massive increase in yields of more than 100%<br>
"Doses: 400 kg / ha - 1000 kg / ha at different horticultural cultivars<br>
Plant height Increase 141 % versus control<br>
Picking yield Increase 630 % versus control<br>
Picking fruit Increase 650 % versus control<br>
Total yield Increase 202 % versus control<br>
Total piece of fruit Increase 171 % versus control<br>
Fruit weight Increase 118 % versus control"<p>
<a href="http://www.3ragrocarbon.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.3ragrocarbon.com<p>
Indeed, Dr. James Hansen, NASA's top Atmospheric authority, is now placing it in the center stage of pro-active solutions for the climate crisis.<br>
<a href="http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0804/0804.1126.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0804/0804.1126.pdf<p>
As Dr. Lehmann at Cornell points out, "Closed-Loop Pyrolysis systems are the only way to make a fuel that is actually carbon negative". and that " a strategy combining biochar with biofuels could ultimately offset 9.5 billion tons of carbon per year-an amount equal to the total current fossil fuel emissions! "<p>
Terra Preta Soils Carbon Negative Bio fuels, massive Carbon sequestration, 10X Lower CH4 &amp; N2O soil emissions, and 3X FertilityToo<p>
This some what orphaned new soil technology speaks to so many different interests and disciplines that it has not been embraced fully by any. I'm sure you will see both the potential of this system and the convergence needed for it's implementation.<p>
The integrated energy strategy offered by Charcoal based Terra Preta Soil technology may<br>
provide the only path to sustain our agricultural and fossil fueled power<br>
structure without climate degradation, other than nuclear power.<p>
Senator / Secretary of Interior Ken Salazar has done the most to nurse this biofuels system in his Biochar provisions in the 07 &amp; 08 farm bill,<br>
<a href="http://www.biochar-international.org/newinformationevents/newlegislation.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.biochar-international.org/newinformationevents ...<p>
POZNAN, Poland, December 10, 2008 - The International Biochar Initiative (IBI) announces that the United Nations Convention to Combat Desertification (UNCCD) has submitted a proposal to include biochar as a mitigation and adaptation technology to be considered in the post-2012-Copenhagen agenda of the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC). A copy of the proposal is posted on the IBI website at<br>
The International Biochar Initiative (IBI).<p>
Carbon to the Soil, the only ubiquitous and economic place to put it.<p>
In a recent National Public Radio interview, Michael Pollan talks about how he was approached by a Democratic party staffer about his New York Times article, The"Farmer &amp; an open letter to the next president concerning U.S. agriculture/energy policy. The staffer wanted Pollan to summarize the article into a page or two to get it into the hands of Barack Obama. Pollan declined, saying that if he could have said everything that needed to be said in two pages, he wouldn't have written 8000 words.<p>
Michael Pollan is well briefed about Biochar technology, but did not include it in his "Farmer &amp; Chief" article to President Obama, (Which he did read &amp; cited in a speech) but I'm sure Biochar will be his 8001th word to him.<p>
Erich<br>
540 289 9750</br></p></p></p></p></br></p></a></br></p></br></br></p></p></p></p></a></br></p></a></p></br></br></br></br></br></br></br></p></br></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by biodiversivist</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/See-the-reforest-for-the-trees/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 13:57:26 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/See-the-reforest-for-the-trees/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>Instead of stating sequestration in tons<p>how about presenting it in terms of percentage of total emissions? What percentage does 1.2 billion tons of carbon represent?

<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. <a href="http://www.poisondarts.net" rel="nofollow">Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world</a></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Instead of stating sequestration in tons<p>how about presenting it in terms of percentage of total emissions? What percentage does 1.2 billion tons of carbon represent?

<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. <a href="http://www.poisondarts.net" rel="nofollow">Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world</a></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by Jon Rynn</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/See-the-reforest-for-the-trees/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 14:38:03 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/See-the-reforest-for-the-trees/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>BioD --</strong></p><p>in 2004, according to the IPCC, humans emitted 49 gigatons of c02 equivalent gases total. &nbsp;Of that, I think 26 gigatons was from fossil fuels, and carbon dioxide is like 2 1/2 times as heavy as carbon.</p>
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				<p><strong>BioD --</strong></p><p>in 2004, according to the IPCC, humans emitted 49 gigatons of c02 equivalent gases total. &nbsp;Of that, I think 26 gigatons was from fossil fuels, and carbon dioxide is like 2 1/2 times as heavy as carbon.</p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by Pangolin</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/See-the-reforest-for-the-trees/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 19:37:43 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/See-the-reforest-for-the-trees/5</guid>
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				<p><strong>From grain to nuts<p>In California I have watched large chunks of the Sacramento valley shift from grain to nut crops. While almonds and walnuts aren't valley oaks neither are they as polluting and water hungry as corn, wheat, sorghum and sugar beets were. <p>
Almonds are about as nutritious as soybeans and while they won't give you as much protein per acre the input costs are smaller as well. I'm sure there is some kind of tree crop that could be developed in the Amazon the could assist in maintaining tree cover and shade soils. I'm pretty fond of brazil nuts and would like to see more of them around.<p>
Worldwide we need to see what we can do to promote tree crops and the effective storage of their produce. Even a line of shelterbelts or hedgerows between fields does a lot to maintain biodiversity and retain topsoils. The old shelterbelts planted in the 30's have been neglected and could do with some replanting. <p>
Like the old saying says; when the going gets tough the tough go nuts. 

<p><a href="http://putcarbonback.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">Put  the Carbon Back</a></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>From grain to nuts<p>In California I have watched large chunks of the Sacramento valley shift from grain to nut crops. While almonds and walnuts aren't valley oaks neither are they as polluting and water hungry as corn, wheat, sorghum and sugar beets were. <p>
Almonds are about as nutritious as soybeans and while they won't give you as much protein per acre the input costs are smaller as well. I'm sure there is some kind of tree crop that could be developed in the Amazon the could assist in maintaining tree cover and shade soils. I'm pretty fond of brazil nuts and would like to see more of them around.<p>
Worldwide we need to see what we can do to promote tree crops and the effective storage of their produce. Even a line of shelterbelts or hedgerows between fields does a lot to maintain biodiversity and retain topsoils. The old shelterbelts planted in the 30's have been neglected and could do with some replanting. <p>
Like the old saying says; when the going gets tough the tough go nuts. 

<p><a href="http://putcarbonback.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">Put  the Carbon Back</a></p></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #6 by biodiversivist</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/See-the-reforest-for-the-trees/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2008 05:16:22 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/See-the-reforest-for-the-trees/6</guid>
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				<p><strong>I don't know ...<p>banning deforestation does not seem any more far fetched than any other idea out there.

<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. <a href="http://www.poisondarts.net" rel="nofollow">Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world</a></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>I don't know ...<p>banning deforestation does not seem any more far fetched than any other idea out there.

<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. <a href="http://www.poisondarts.net" rel="nofollow">Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world</a></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #7 by In the belly</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/See-the-reforest-for-the-trees/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2008 07:21:11 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/See-the-reforest-for-the-trees/7</guid>
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				<p><strong>Brasil Nuts</strong></p><p>I like the concept of food forests, but caution against Brasil Nuts as a major component--they concentrate selenium, and while one or two a day is good for obtaining trace amounts, making them even a semi-significant portion of a diet will likely lead to selenium poisoning.</p><p>
BTW, this was the diagnosis on House the only time I ever got one right...</p>
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				<p><strong>Brasil Nuts</strong></p><p>I like the concept of food forests, but caution against Brasil Nuts as a major component--they concentrate selenium, and while one or two a day is good for obtaining trace amounts, making them even a semi-significant portion of a diet will likely lead to selenium poisoning.</p><p>
BTW, this was the diagnosis on House the only time I ever got one right...</p>
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            <title>Comment #8 by GreyFlcn</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/See-the-reforest-for-the-trees/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2008 08:30:18 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/See-the-reforest-for-the-trees/8</guid>
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				<p><strong>One thing to consider</strong></p><p>Tropical forests don't only have to deal with the tree's carbon.</p><p>
But they also have a large amount of carbon beneath the soil</p><p>
AND the trees themselves emit water vapor during the day, and not at night. &nbsp;This allows for the region of the earth that gets the most sunlight, to reflect sunlight back out into space.</p><p>
You get a lot more bang for your buck in tropical regions.

<p>-David Ahlport</p></p>
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				<p><strong>One thing to consider</strong></p><p>Tropical forests don't only have to deal with the tree's carbon.</p><p>
But they also have a large amount of carbon beneath the soil</p><p>
AND the trees themselves emit water vapor during the day, and not at night. &nbsp;This allows for the region of the earth that gets the most sunlight, to reflect sunlight back out into space.</p><p>
You get a lot more bang for your buck in tropical regions.

<p>-David Ahlport</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #9 by stopgreenpath</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/See-the-reforest-for-the-trees/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 2009 05:14:40 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/See-the-reforest-for-the-trees/9</guid>
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				<p><strong>what about the Mojave?</strong></p><p>The Mojave, when left intact, has been proven to be as effective a carbon sink as temperate forests, yet many of you would advocate for its wholesale destruction to bolster Industrial Solar and Industrial Wind profits, and to ensure that already built environments (like our load centers) do not get the renewable energy infrastructure we need. &nbsp;Why? &nbsp;Why would you advocate killing one GREAT carbon sink, while destabilizing the grid, impoverishing property owners/ratepayers, emitting enormous amounts of GHGs in construction and maintenance of these boondoggles, and missing economic opportunities in the jobs, property values and feed in tariff sectors?</p><p>
Point of use solutions are the only economically and environmentally viable renewable energy solutions. &nbsp;we need to STOP killing the Mojave, and allow it to function in the way it was designed to function, and focus on policies that will get panels and windmills onto structures and feeding TRULY clean power into the grid. &nbsp;40 Nations, including Albania and Algeria are ahead of every state in the US on clean energy policy, even if their solar and wind resources are only 50% what ours are. &nbsp;why? &nbsp;because Big Energy is trying to scam us - again - into their greenwashed lies about how much we need to destroy open spaces for energy, and our government is enjoying the cover the "environmentalists" are providing for their big donors...</p><p>
It's so obvious what they are doing - can we all rise up and refuse to participate in these environmentally devastating pyramid schemes and insist on FITs, efficiency, storage, smart grids and other solutions that will actually HELP the planet?

<p>the greenest energy is that which you needn't ever produce.</p></p>
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				<p><strong>what about the Mojave?</strong></p><p>The Mojave, when left intact, has been proven to be as effective a carbon sink as temperate forests, yet many of you would advocate for its wholesale destruction to bolster Industrial Solar and Industrial Wind profits, and to ensure that already built environments (like our load centers) do not get the renewable energy infrastructure we need. &nbsp;Why? &nbsp;Why would you advocate killing one GREAT carbon sink, while destabilizing the grid, impoverishing property owners/ratepayers, emitting enormous amounts of GHGs in construction and maintenance of these boondoggles, and missing economic opportunities in the jobs, property values and feed in tariff sectors?</p><p>
Point of use solutions are the only economically and environmentally viable renewable energy solutions. &nbsp;we need to STOP killing the Mojave, and allow it to function in the way it was designed to function, and focus on policies that will get panels and windmills onto structures and feeding TRULY clean power into the grid. &nbsp;40 Nations, including Albania and Algeria are ahead of every state in the US on clean energy policy, even if their solar and wind resources are only 50% what ours are. &nbsp;why? &nbsp;because Big Energy is trying to scam us - again - into their greenwashed lies about how much we need to destroy open spaces for energy, and our government is enjoying the cover the "environmentalists" are providing for their big donors...</p><p>
It's so obvious what they are doing - can we all rise up and refuse to participate in these environmentally devastating pyramid schemes and insist on FITs, efficiency, storage, smart grids and other solutions that will actually HELP the planet?

<p>the greenest energy is that which you needn't ever produce.</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #10 by georgia</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/See-the-reforest-for-the-trees/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 2009 05:46:58 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/See-the-reforest-for-the-trees/10</guid>
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				<p><strong>Carbon is not a problem?</strong></p><p>The underlying premise that natural or anthropogenic CO2 drives climate has long been proven wrong. &nbsp;The earth's atmosphere acts nothing like a greenhouse, unless you were to install sprinklers, turn large fans on and off, and cut large holes in the roof of a greenhouse.</p><p>
The backbone of this cruel hoax rests on two falsehoods. &nbsp;First, that our atmosphere is like a greenhouse (ie. more CO2 increases heat absorption). &nbsp;Second, that there is scientific consensus that agree with the first premise. &nbsp;I'd sure like to see the thousands of scientists that supprt these two notions sign their names to a report or a petition. &nbsp;Why are they unwilling to put their reputations on the line?</p><p>
Can we now move on to addressing real environmental and energy problems?</p><p>
Also, more CO2 in the air means more crop yield, which equals less land to produce the same amount of food. &nbsp;CO2 is a good thing. &nbsp;We need MORE of it, not less in the atmosphere.</p>
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				<p><strong>Carbon is not a problem?</strong></p><p>The underlying premise that natural or anthropogenic CO2 drives climate has long been proven wrong. &nbsp;The earth's atmosphere acts nothing like a greenhouse, unless you were to install sprinklers, turn large fans on and off, and cut large holes in the roof of a greenhouse.</p><p>
The backbone of this cruel hoax rests on two falsehoods. &nbsp;First, that our atmosphere is like a greenhouse (ie. more CO2 increases heat absorption). &nbsp;Second, that there is scientific consensus that agree with the first premise. &nbsp;I'd sure like to see the thousands of scientists that supprt these two notions sign their names to a report or a petition. &nbsp;Why are they unwilling to put their reputations on the line?</p><p>
Can we now move on to addressing real environmental and energy problems?</p><p>
Also, more CO2 in the air means more crop yield, which equals less land to produce the same amount of food. &nbsp;CO2 is a good thing. &nbsp;We need MORE of it, not less in the atmosphere.</p>
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            <title>Comment #11 by Bob Wallace</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/See-the-reforest-for-the-trees/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 2009 06:25:53 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/See-the-reforest-for-the-trees/11</guid>
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				<p><strong>Georgia, Georgia..  A song of you....</strong></p><p>"The backbone of this cruel hoax rests on two falsehoods. &nbsp;First, that our atmosphere is like a greenhouse (ie. more CO2 increases heat absorption). "</p><p>
Well, were you to look around our solar system you would find at least one planet that gets enough sun to be nice and warm, but a planet devoid of an atmospheric blanket to hold in a sufficient amount of that heat. &nbsp;</p><p>
You would only have to go as far as our moon to find a place that would benefit from a nice greenhouse blanket.</p><p>
Here - from "Ask an Astronomer for Kids"...</p><p>
"The temperature on the moon varies from -387 Fahrenheit (-233 Celsius), at night, to 253 Fahrenheit (123 Celsius) during the day. Because the moon has no atmosphere to block some of the sun's rays or to help trap heat at night, its temperature varies greatly between day and night."</p><p>
Now...</p><p>
"Second, that there is scientific consensus that agree with the first premise."</p><p>
That, and much of the rest of your post, is factually incorrect.</p><p>
The very, very vast number of climate scientists have looked at the issue and are in amazing agreement that we've got a serious problem staring us in the face.</p><p>
I suspect you've been mislead by one of those phony lists that contains the names of scientists whose names were placed there without their consent (and who accept global climate change), &nbsp;scientists who are dead, and people who really aren't climate scientists but economists, biologists, weathermen, ....</p>
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				<p><strong>Georgia, Georgia..  A song of you....</strong></p><p>"The backbone of this cruel hoax rests on two falsehoods. &nbsp;First, that our atmosphere is like a greenhouse (ie. more CO2 increases heat absorption). "</p><p>
Well, were you to look around our solar system you would find at least one planet that gets enough sun to be nice and warm, but a planet devoid of an atmospheric blanket to hold in a sufficient amount of that heat. &nbsp;</p><p>
You would only have to go as far as our moon to find a place that would benefit from a nice greenhouse blanket.</p><p>
Here - from "Ask an Astronomer for Kids"...</p><p>
"The temperature on the moon varies from -387 Fahrenheit (-233 Celsius), at night, to 253 Fahrenheit (123 Celsius) during the day. Because the moon has no atmosphere to block some of the sun's rays or to help trap heat at night, its temperature varies greatly between day and night."</p><p>
Now...</p><p>
"Second, that there is scientific consensus that agree with the first premise."</p><p>
That, and much of the rest of your post, is factually incorrect.</p><p>
The very, very vast number of climate scientists have looked at the issue and are in amazing agreement that we've got a serious problem staring us in the face.</p><p>
I suspect you've been mislead by one of those phony lists that contains the names of scientists whose names were placed there without their consent (and who accept global climate change), &nbsp;scientists who are dead, and people who really aren't climate scientists but economists, biologists, weathermen, ....</p>
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            <title>Comment #12 by hapa</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/See-the-reforest-for-the-trees/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 2009 06:34:44 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/See-the-reforest-for-the-trees/12</guid>
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				<p><strong>no greenhouse effect at all.</strong></p><p>the real bottom of the barrel now.</p><p>
next it will be proven by real scientists that warmth comes from inside the earth; the sun is a heatless sparkler for our pleasure.</p>
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				<p><strong>no greenhouse effect at all.</strong></p><p>the real bottom of the barrel now.</p><p>
next it will be proven by real scientists that warmth comes from inside the earth; the sun is a heatless sparkler for our pleasure.</p>
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            <title>Comment #13 by Bob Wallace</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/See-the-reforest-for-the-trees/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 2009 06:35:53 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/See-the-reforest-for-the-trees/13</guid>
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				<p><strong>What about the Mojave?</strong></p><p>Don't jump from the discovery that there &nbsp;is some carbon sequestering going on in places one wouldn't expect to the idea that leaving all our deserts devoid of trees is the best idea.</p><p>
Remember that there are many deserts that man created. &nbsp;Think about the "Cradle of Civilization".</p><p>
Some math will tell us whether it makes sense to return trees to places we stripped.</p><p>
No one is suggesting we reforest National Parks. &nbsp;</p>
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				<p><strong>What about the Mojave?</strong></p><p>Don't jump from the discovery that there &nbsp;is some carbon sequestering going on in places one wouldn't expect to the idea that leaving all our deserts devoid of trees is the best idea.</p><p>
Remember that there are many deserts that man created. &nbsp;Think about the "Cradle of Civilization".</p><p>
Some math will tell us whether it makes sense to return trees to places we stripped.</p><p>
No one is suggesting we reforest National Parks. &nbsp;</p>
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            <title>Comment #14 by hapa</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/See-the-reforest-for-the-trees/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 2009 06:36:53 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/See-the-reforest-for-the-trees/14</guid>
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				<p><strong>my evidence</strong></p><p>air temperature drops as distance from molten core increases.</p>
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				<p><strong>my evidence</strong></p><p>air temperature drops as distance from molten core increases.</p>
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            <title>Comment #15 by hapa</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/See-the-reforest-for-the-trees/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 2009 06:42:13 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/See-the-reforest-for-the-trees/15</guid>
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				<p><strong>at night</strong></p><p>the great planetary heating element is made of trillions of moths, drawn to the sun's glow. this is why the dark side becomes colder. </p>
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				<p><strong>at night</strong></p><p>the great planetary heating element is made of trillions of moths, drawn to the sun's glow. this is why the dark side becomes colder. </p>
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            <title>Comment #16 by Bob Wallace</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/See-the-reforest-for-the-trees/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 2009 07:16:30 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/See-the-reforest-for-the-trees/16</guid>
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				<p><strong>at night</strong></p><p>but what about the billions of foxes, skunks, and other little furry creatures that emerge and warm the nighttime with their increased activity levels?</p><p>
are we perhaps warming the climate because we are not eating enough possum?</p>
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				<p><strong>at night</strong></p><p>but what about the billions of foxes, skunks, and other little furry creatures that emerge and warm the nighttime with their increased activity levels?</p><p>
are we perhaps warming the climate because we are not eating enough possum?</p>
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            <title>Comment #17 by hapa</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/See-the-reforest-for-the-trees/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 2009 07:30:18 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/See-the-reforest-for-the-trees/17</guid>
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				<p><strong>adam smith would agree with that.</strong></p><p>smith said that excesses of possum, crow, and hats crowd out productive investment and infantilize the economy.</p>
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				<p><strong>adam smith would agree with that.</strong></p><p>smith said that excesses of possum, crow, and hats crowd out productive investment and infantilize the economy.</p>
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            <title>Comment #18 by Bob Wallace</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/See-the-reforest-for-the-trees/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 2009 07:38:04 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/See-the-reforest-for-the-trees/18</guid>
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				<p><strong>hapa - i think you've solved it!</strong></p><p>it's all those moths.</p><p>
back in the olden days, when we didn't need government at all and everyone was incredibly wealthy, the moths moved heat to the sunny side of the globe, thus allowing nighttime cooling.</p><p>
now mankind has screwed up the climate by leaving our porch lights on and disrupting the rhythm of nature....</p>
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				<p><strong>hapa - i think you've solved it!</strong></p><p>it's all those moths.</p><p>
back in the olden days, when we didn't need government at all and everyone was incredibly wealthy, the moths moved heat to the sunny side of the globe, thus allowing nighttime cooling.</p><p>
now mankind has screwed up the climate by leaving our porch lights on and disrupting the rhythm of nature....</p>
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            <title>Comment #19 by Pompey Road</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/See-the-reforest-for-the-trees/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2009 00:57:29 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/See-the-reforest-for-the-trees/19</guid>
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				<p><strong>Prehensile Tale: or is that tail</strong></p><p>Liberal, left wing environmentalist may be the prime source of global warming as methane gas is more the culprit than co2 when considering the gas blanket that is presently warming the planet. It is yet to be determined if the excess methane is being caused by the flatulence from this mostly vegetarian crowd or if it is just all the hot air they release about saving the environment while really getting nothing done about the problem. </p><p>
It may not be a question of eat a possum and save a tree. It may come down to save a tree and eat a possum to cut down on all the methane gas produced by the vegetarian tree huggers who are simply put "full of it"<br>
. <br>


<p>The eons of time and nature was good to us down here. It was not until we become civilized that destroying our habitat become fathomable or fashionable.</p></br></br></p>
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				<p><strong>Prehensile Tale: or is that tail</strong></p><p>Liberal, left wing environmentalist may be the prime source of global warming as methane gas is more the culprit than co2 when considering the gas blanket that is presently warming the planet. It is yet to be determined if the excess methane is being caused by the flatulence from this mostly vegetarian crowd or if it is just all the hot air they release about saving the environment while really getting nothing done about the problem. </p><p>
It may not be a question of eat a possum and save a tree. It may come down to save a tree and eat a possum to cut down on all the methane gas produced by the vegetarian tree huggers who are simply put "full of it"<br>
. <br>


<p>The eons of time and nature was good to us down here. It was not until we become civilized that destroying our habitat become fathomable or fashionable.</p></br></br></p>
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