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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Integrating science with management and policy at the Puget Sound Georgia Basin Ecosystem Conference]]></title>
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            <title>Comment #1 by biodiversivist</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/Science-is-back/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 10 Feb 2009 02:04:30 -0800</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Whoa, 150,000 lbs ...<p>I wonder what the bulk of those pollutants are? A short list that comes to mind: Fluids leaking &nbsp;from cars, pet waste, runoff from roofs made of tar shingles, failed septic systems, yard fertilizers including "slug death" and car washing.

<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. <a href="http://www.poisondarts.net" rel="nofollow">Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world</a></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Whoa, 150,000 lbs ...<p>I wonder what the bulk of those pollutants are? A short list that comes to mind: Fluids leaking &nbsp;from cars, pet waste, runoff from roofs made of tar shingles, failed septic systems, yard fertilizers including "slug death" and car washing.

<p>In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. <a href="http://www.poisondarts.net" rel="nofollow">Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world</a></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by newnoah</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/Science-is-back/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 10 Feb 2009 03:48:53 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/Science-is-back/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>Science (but still same system) is back</strong></p><p>"There are currently many plans for sustainable use or sustainable development that are founded upon scientific information and consensus. Such ideas reflect ignorance of the history of resource exploitation and misunderstanding of the possibility of achieving scientific consensus concerning resources and the environment. Although there is considerable variation in detail, there is remarkable consistency in the history of resource exploitation: resources are inevitably overexploited, often to the point of collapse or extinction."</p><p>
Carl Walters, Donald Ludwig, Ray Hilborn</p><p>
"The evolutionary paradigm is different from the conventional optimization paradigm popular in economics in at least four important respects (Arthur 1988): 1) evolution is path dependent, meaning that the detailed history and dynamics of the system are important; 2) evolution can achieve multiple equilibria; 3) there is no guarantee that optimal efficiency or any other optimal performance will be achieved due in part to path dependence and sensitivity to perturbations; and 4) `lock-in' (survival of the first rather than survival of the fittest) is possible under conditions of increasing returns. While, as Arthur (1988) notes "conventional economic theory is built largely on the assumption of diminishing returns on the margin (local negative feedbacks)" life itself can be characterized as a positive feedback, self-reinforcing, autocatalytic process (Kay 1991, G&#159;nther and Folke 1993) and we should expect increasing returns, lock-in, path dependence, multiple equilibria and sub-optimal efficiency to be the rule rather than the exception in economic and ecological systems." </p><p>
Costanza et al. Modeling Complex Ecological Economic Systems. BioScience 1993</p>
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				<p><strong>Science (but still same system) is back</strong></p><p>"There are currently many plans for sustainable use or sustainable development that are founded upon scientific information and consensus. Such ideas reflect ignorance of the history of resource exploitation and misunderstanding of the possibility of achieving scientific consensus concerning resources and the environment. Although there is considerable variation in detail, there is remarkable consistency in the history of resource exploitation: resources are inevitably overexploited, often to the point of collapse or extinction."</p><p>
Carl Walters, Donald Ludwig, Ray Hilborn</p><p>
"The evolutionary paradigm is different from the conventional optimization paradigm popular in economics in at least four important respects (Arthur 1988): 1) evolution is path dependent, meaning that the detailed history and dynamics of the system are important; 2) evolution can achieve multiple equilibria; 3) there is no guarantee that optimal efficiency or any other optimal performance will be achieved due in part to path dependence and sensitivity to perturbations; and 4) `lock-in' (survival of the first rather than survival of the fittest) is possible under conditions of increasing returns. While, as Arthur (1988) notes "conventional economic theory is built largely on the assumption of diminishing returns on the margin (local negative feedbacks)" life itself can be characterized as a positive feedback, self-reinforcing, autocatalytic process (Kay 1991, G&#159;nther and Folke 1993) and we should expect increasing returns, lock-in, path dependence, multiple equilibria and sub-optimal efficiency to be the rule rather than the exception in economic and ecological systems." </p><p>
Costanza et al. Modeling Complex Ecological Economic Systems. BioScience 1993</p>
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