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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Steven Chu is a progressive environmentalist because he&#8217;s a good scientist]]></title>
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            <title>Comment #1 by randino</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/Progressivism-is-pragmatism/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 09:47:45 -0800</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>Chris Hayes' article in the Nation</strong></p><p>was a keeper. Like varieties of chilies, good work comes in various flavors. Hayes is like a fine curry that slowly rachets up the heat, not the habanero that mugs you. Bright guy we can look forward to hearing much more from. </p><p>
Randy Cunningham<br>
Cleveland, OH 

<p>Randy Cunningham</p></br></p>
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				<p><strong>Chris Hayes' article in the Nation</strong></p><p>was a keeper. Like varieties of chilies, good work comes in various flavors. Hayes is like a fine curry that slowly rachets up the heat, not the habanero that mugs you. Bright guy we can look forward to hearing much more from. </p><p>
Randy Cunningham<br>
Cleveland, OH 

<p>Randy Cunningham</p></br></p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by Colin Wright</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/Progressivism-is-pragmatism/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 13:51:06 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/Progressivism-is-pragmatism/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>Still Chu'ing on this one...</strong></p><p>I think I agree with some of DR's great leaps in this piece. I could imagine that Obama is aware of Dewey since his kids attended the UC Experimental School. I could imagine that he has read Cornell West.</p><p>
But I don't know enough about Chu. While Dave can write: "He's a progressive environmentalist because he "actually knows science." In other words, given the state of the world today a scientific temperament leads inexorably to progressive environmentalism"</p><p>
I cross my fingers. Because there are many different types of scientists. Some have bravely spoken out (like Hansen) but many more sit on the sidelines, and a few shill for the denial industry. (Then there are the racists like Shockley and Watson, Nobelists each. Nobel Prizes seem to send many scientists "off the deep end".)</p><p>
Still perhaps in essence DR is right. Even as science has led to an intoxicated technocratic vision of man-conquering-nature, and become corrupted by corporate interests, it is still a beacon that pulls us from superstition towards rationality. Without the painstaking work of climate scientists we might still be scratching our heads about the melting polar ice cap. So perhaps "science + humanism + pragmatism" can still pull us out of this climate mess, and Chu will not disappoint.</p>
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				<p><strong>Still Chu'ing on this one...</strong></p><p>I think I agree with some of DR's great leaps in this piece. I could imagine that Obama is aware of Dewey since his kids attended the UC Experimental School. I could imagine that he has read Cornell West.</p><p>
But I don't know enough about Chu. While Dave can write: "He's a progressive environmentalist because he "actually knows science." In other words, given the state of the world today a scientific temperament leads inexorably to progressive environmentalism"</p><p>
I cross my fingers. Because there are many different types of scientists. Some have bravely spoken out (like Hansen) but many more sit on the sidelines, and a few shill for the denial industry. (Then there are the racists like Shockley and Watson, Nobelists each. Nobel Prizes seem to send many scientists "off the deep end".)</p><p>
Still perhaps in essence DR is right. Even as science has led to an intoxicated technocratic vision of man-conquering-nature, and become corrupted by corporate interests, it is still a beacon that pulls us from superstition towards rationality. Without the painstaking work of climate scientists we might still be scratching our heads about the melting polar ice cap. So perhaps "science + humanism + pragmatism" can still pull us out of this climate mess, and Chu will not disappoint.</p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by Bob Wallace</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/Progressivism-is-pragmatism/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 14:24:48 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/Progressivism-is-pragmatism/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>This doesn't ring true to me...</strong></p><p>"This is a definition of pragmatism that is in almost every way the opposite of its invocation among those in the establishment. For them, pragmatism means accepting the institutional forces that severely limit innovation and boldness; it means listening to the counsel of the Wise Men; it means not rocking the boat."</p><p>
The pragmatist who finds themselves working within an "establishment" recognizes the institutional forces, consults the Wise Men, and then seeks a path that rocks the boat as little as possible.</p><p>
(I never seemed to get that last part correct.)</p><p>
What Hayes is describing it "the company man".</p><p>
Obama is in a very unique position. &nbsp;He is coming to power at a point in time when things are more fucked up than they've ever been fucked up in our lifetimes. &nbsp;Even the lives of us older farts.</p><p>
Obama has the huge advantage of not having to worry as much as normal about the "establishment". &nbsp;The establishment was so damaged during the last eight years that he has to build a new one. &nbsp;The Wise Men have largely been publicly recognized as fools. &nbsp;The majority is screaming for a good hard boat rocking....</p>
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				<p><strong>This doesn't ring true to me...</strong></p><p>"This is a definition of pragmatism that is in almost every way the opposite of its invocation among those in the establishment. For them, pragmatism means accepting the institutional forces that severely limit innovation and boldness; it means listening to the counsel of the Wise Men; it means not rocking the boat."</p><p>
The pragmatist who finds themselves working within an "establishment" recognizes the institutional forces, consults the Wise Men, and then seeks a path that rocks the boat as little as possible.</p><p>
(I never seemed to get that last part correct.)</p><p>
What Hayes is describing it "the company man".</p><p>
Obama is in a very unique position. &nbsp;He is coming to power at a point in time when things are more fucked up than they've ever been fucked up in our lifetimes. &nbsp;Even the lives of us older farts.</p><p>
Obama has the huge advantage of not having to worry as much as normal about the "establishment". &nbsp;The establishment was so damaged during the last eight years that he has to build a new one. &nbsp;The Wise Men have largely been publicly recognized as fools. &nbsp;The majority is screaming for a good hard boat rocking....</p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by Jones</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/Progressivism-is-pragmatism/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 16:01:56 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/Progressivism-is-pragmatism/4</guid>
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				<p><strong>picking nits...</strong></p><p>While I strongly agree that Chu seems to be a "green progressive environmentalist", I think the commenter's point still stands, at least in spirit. Lest we forget, there is probably as much dogmatism, groupthink and closemindedness within the environmental and progressive "communities" as there is in any movement. Some people just have the good fortune of being on the right side, through no merit of their own.</p><p>
I think objectivity is a better word for the type of pragmatism we're discussing here--the freedom from idealogical frameworks which, often in insidious ways, limit the information we allow ourselves to consider. Obama seems impeccably objective, and is making choices for what I think will be an excellent administration.</p>
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				<p><strong>picking nits...</strong></p><p>While I strongly agree that Chu seems to be a "green progressive environmentalist", I think the commenter's point still stands, at least in spirit. Lest we forget, there is probably as much dogmatism, groupthink and closemindedness within the environmental and progressive "communities" as there is in any movement. Some people just have the good fortune of being on the right side, through no merit of their own.</p><p>
I think objectivity is a better word for the type of pragmatism we're discussing here--the freedom from idealogical frameworks which, often in insidious ways, limit the information we allow ourselves to consider. Obama seems impeccably objective, and is making choices for what I think will be an excellent administration.</p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by amazingdrx</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/Progressivism-is-pragmatism/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 16:55:42 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/Progressivism-is-pragmatism/5</guid>
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				<p><strong>Pragmatic idealism</strong></p><p>Maybe Chu has it. &nbsp;But why did he repeat that old saw about coal emitting more radiation than nuclear power? &nbsp;He is definitely flawed. &nbsp;Can he overcome it?

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog     John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin </p></p>
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				<p><strong>Pragmatic idealism</strong></p><p>Maybe Chu has it. &nbsp;But why did he repeat that old saw about coal emitting more radiation than nuclear power? &nbsp;He is definitely flawed. &nbsp;Can he overcome it?

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog     John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin </p></p>
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            <title>Comment #6 by wesrolley</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/Progressivism-is-pragmatism/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 18 Dec 2008 01:04:44 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/Progressivism-is-pragmatism/6</guid>
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				<p><strong>Analysis of Chu nomination rarely mention nuclear<p>Chu will head what was once called the Atomic Energy Commission. We have <a href="http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2008/11/23/21131/745" rel="nofollow">Joseph Romm taking Jim Hansen to task for supporting the idea of 4th Generation Nuclear power. &nbsp;<p>
Why, then, does he not apply the same logic to Chu and the support for nuclear that keeps showing up in his part comments, if you care to look for it. <p>
If Chu is going to be the ultimate pragmatist, then he will surely insist on the full costing of nuclear power, without subsidies, without government guarantees, with ground to ground chain of responsibility for uranium and any produced nuclear material. &nbsp;If they do that, then maybe nuclear will die as being the 2nd least cost effective solution (after coal) to our needs. 

<p>Wes Rolley

CoChair - EcoAction Committee
Green Party US</p></p></p></a></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Analysis of Chu nomination rarely mention nuclear<p>Chu will head what was once called the Atomic Energy Commission. We have <a href="http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2008/11/23/21131/745" rel="nofollow">Joseph Romm taking Jim Hansen to task for supporting the idea of 4th Generation Nuclear power. &nbsp;<p>
Why, then, does he not apply the same logic to Chu and the support for nuclear that keeps showing up in his part comments, if you care to look for it. <p>
If Chu is going to be the ultimate pragmatist, then he will surely insist on the full costing of nuclear power, without subsidies, without government guarantees, with ground to ground chain of responsibility for uranium and any produced nuclear material. &nbsp;If they do that, then maybe nuclear will die as being the 2nd least cost effective solution (after coal) to our needs. 

<p>Wes Rolley

CoChair - EcoAction Committee
Green Party US</p></p></p></a></p></strong></p>
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