<![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for We must strive to meet the U.N.‘s low population projection of 8 billion by 2041]]> Grist Comment Feed en Comment #1 by Pompey Road http://www.grist.org/article/Moving-to-a-stable-world-population/ Wed, 21 Jan 2009 03:20:15 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/Moving-to-a-stable-world-population/1 Musings on Malthus:

Malthus wrote the prescription for population control over a hundred years ago.

Grossly overpopulated planet every tribe in competition for diminishing resources.

The have's exploiting the have not's for centuries and now that their population is putting additional stress on the planets oil, food and water supply you want to neuter them.

Your timing is lousy, since your corporate greed finally destroyed the economic system along with most all the resources you are trying to horde it will be hard to fund the sterilization of the third world.

Not to worry for brother Malthus will come to your aid.

The only natural predator to man is War, Famine, Disease and the fourth horseman fermenting the hate and stirring the fire in the Middle East.

One naturally follows the other so just "cry Havoc and loose the dogs of war"

The eons of time and nature was good to us down here. It was not until we become civilized that destroying our habitat become fathomable or fashionable.


]]> Musings on Malthus:

Malthus wrote the prescription for population control over a hundred years ago.

Grossly overpopulated planet every tribe in competition for diminishing resources.

The have's exploiting the have not's for centuries and now that their population is putting additional stress on the planets oil, food and water supply you want to neuter them.

Your timing is lousy, since your corporate greed finally destroyed the economic system along with most all the resources you are trying to horde it will be hard to fund the sterilization of the third world.

Not to worry for brother Malthus will come to your aid.

The only natural predator to man is War, Famine, Disease and the fourth horseman fermenting the hate and stirring the fire in the Middle East.

One naturally follows the other so just "cry Havoc and loose the dogs of war"

The eons of time and nature was good to us down here. It was not until we become civilized that destroying our habitat become fathomable or fashionable.


]]> Comment #2 by racc http://www.grist.org/article/Moving-to-a-stable-world-population/ Wed, 21 Jan 2009 05:54:03 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/Moving-to-a-stable-world-population/2 Reduce Consumption

Pompey, if you actually read the post, educational opportunities and reproductive choice for women is the key to reducing population growth. These along with economic opportunities for women are pretty much a matter of basic rights. Not sure where you got "fund the sterilization of the third world" from.

Regarding your other point, which I think is over consumption in the "developed" world, that is what we all should be doing everything we can to address. In fact, our future prosperity  depends on doing more with much less energy and resources.

It is not about us, it is about everyone. http://www.everyoneforever.org/

]]> Reduce Consumption

Pompey, if you actually read the post, educational opportunities and reproductive choice for women is the key to reducing population growth. These along with economic opportunities for women are pretty much a matter of basic rights. Not sure where you got "fund the sterilization of the third world" from.

Regarding your other point, which I think is over consumption in the "developed" world, that is what we all should be doing everything we can to address. In fact, our future prosperity  depends on doing more with much less energy and resources.

It is not about us, it is about everyone. http://www.everyoneforever.org/

]]> Comment #3 by GreyFlcn http://www.grist.org/article/Moving-to-a-stable-world-population/ Wed, 21 Jan 2009 06:23:42 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/Moving-to-a-stable-world-population/3 In short

Educate/Empower Women
Contraception

-David Ahlport


]]> In short

Educate/Empower Women
Contraception

-David Ahlport


]]> Comment #4 by Pompey Road http://www.grist.org/article/Moving-to-a-stable-world-population/ Wed, 21 Jan 2009 06:49:57 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/Moving-to-a-stable-world-population/4 Artistic License:

I did mean the term "your" to be taken literally. A metaphoric rambling about the cause that set up the condition you are trying to address.

Your efforts are noble, I wish you well but the reality depicted in the piece describing the mindset of the nations up to this point in time will make your efforts difficult.

It is hard to educate those who can not read. It is hard to educate the ears closed by religious dogma. Family counseling and family planning will be difficult in some third world countries under the influence of the religions left over from the 7th century.

The eons of time and nature was good to us down here. It was not until we become civilized that destroying our habitat become fathomable or fashionable.


]]> Artistic License:

I did mean the term "your" to be taken literally. A metaphoric rambling about the cause that set up the condition you are trying to address.

Your efforts are noble, I wish you well but the reality depicted in the piece describing the mindset of the nations up to this point in time will make your efforts difficult.

It is hard to educate those who can not read. It is hard to educate the ears closed by religious dogma. Family counseling and family planning will be difficult in some third world countries under the influence of the religions left over from the 7th century.

The eons of time and nature was good to us down here. It was not until we become civilized that destroying our habitat become fathomable or fashionable.


]]> Comment #5 by Pompey Road http://www.grist.org/article/Moving-to-a-stable-world-population/ Wed, 21 Jan 2009 06:54:31 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/Moving-to-a-stable-world-population/5 Correction:

Did not mean to take the term your literally or pass owner ship of the cause to you or your organization.

The eons of time and nature was good to us down here. It was not until we become civilized that destroying our habitat become fathomable or fashionable.

]]> Correction:

Did not mean to take the term your literally or pass owner ship of the cause to you or your organization.

The eons of time and nature was good to us down here. It was not until we become civilized that destroying our habitat become fathomable or fashionable.

]]> Comment #6 by Delay And Deny http://www.grist.org/article/Moving-to-a-stable-world-population/ Wed, 21 Jan 2009 15:11:51 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/Moving-to-a-stable-world-population/6 It's Been A Long Time...


One thing that people need to consider is just how long it took us to reach this level of population.

Yes, population expands geometrically, but the tick mark is a human generation, 20 to 40 years.

Now, yes, that can seem fast, but think of it this way.   Suppose our replacement rate were 1.   In a single generation we could half our population from 8 billion to 4 billion.

Now suppose our replacement rate were something like .25 -- where many opted out of direct parenting and became "aunts and uncles" helping to rear a relative or friend's child (A Village).

I think alot of people would like that relationship, somewhere between a parent and childless.   But at the same time, look at how quickly our population could be reduced.

So, I guess I would caution people that while it seems like a good idea, it does take a long time to bring back population...

You are now living in the Hansen Economy!



]]> It's Been A Long Time...


One thing that people need to consider is just how long it took us to reach this level of population.

Yes, population expands geometrically, but the tick mark is a human generation, 20 to 40 years.

Now, yes, that can seem fast, but think of it this way.   Suppose our replacement rate were 1.   In a single generation we could half our population from 8 billion to 4 billion.

Now suppose our replacement rate were something like .25 -- where many opted out of direct parenting and became "aunts and uncles" helping to rear a relative or friend's child (A Village).

I think alot of people would like that relationship, somewhere between a parent and childless.   But at the same time, look at how quickly our population could be reduced.

So, I guess I would caution people that while it seems like a good idea, it does take a long time to bring back population...

You are now living in the Hansen Economy!



]]> Comment #7 by biodiversivist http://www.grist.org/article/Moving-to-a-stable-world-population/ Wed, 21 Jan 2009 15:46:33 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/Moving-to-a-stable-world-population/7 Obama to reverse gag rule ...again

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President-elect Barack Obama is considering issuing an executive order to reverse a controversial Bush administration abortion policy in his first week in office, three Democratic sources said Monday.

Obama's second full day as president falls on the 36th anniversary of Roe v. Wade, the 1973 Supreme Court decision legalizing abortion in the United States.

The sources said Obama may use the occasion to reverse the "Mexico City policy" reinstated in 2001 by Bush that prohibits U.S. money from funding international family planning groups that promote abortion or provide information, counseling or referrals about abortion services. It bans any organization receiving family planning funds from the U.S. Agency for International Development from offering abortions or abortion counseling.

The "Mexico City policy," commonly referred to by critics as "the global gag rule," was devised by President Ronald Reagan in 1984 at a population conference in Mexico City.

President Bill Clinton lifted the ban in January 1993 as one of his first acts as president, but President George W. Bush reinstated it in his first executive order on January 22, 2001, the 28th anniversary of Roe v. Wade.

At the time, critics -- including Planned Parenthood -- called the move a "legislative ambush."

Bush defended the action, saying then: "It is my conviction that taxpayer funds should not be used to pay for abortion or actively promote abortion.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/01/19/obama.abortion/ind ...

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world

]]> Obama to reverse gag rule ...again

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President-elect Barack Obama is considering issuing an executive order to reverse a controversial Bush administration abortion policy in his first week in office, three Democratic sources said Monday.

Obama's second full day as president falls on the 36th anniversary of Roe v. Wade, the 1973 Supreme Court decision legalizing abortion in the United States.

The sources said Obama may use the occasion to reverse the "Mexico City policy" reinstated in 2001 by Bush that prohibits U.S. money from funding international family planning groups that promote abortion or provide information, counseling or referrals about abortion services. It bans any organization receiving family planning funds from the U.S. Agency for International Development from offering abortions or abortion counseling.

The "Mexico City policy," commonly referred to by critics as "the global gag rule," was devised by President Ronald Reagan in 1984 at a population conference in Mexico City.

President Bill Clinton lifted the ban in January 1993 as one of his first acts as president, but President George W. Bush reinstated it in his first executive order on January 22, 2001, the 28th anniversary of Roe v. Wade.

At the time, critics -- including Planned Parenthood -- called the move a "legislative ambush."

Bush defended the action, saying then: "It is my conviction that taxpayer funds should not be used to pay for abortion or actively promote abortion.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/01/19/obama.abortion/ind ...

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world

]]> Comment #8 by amazingdrx http://www.grist.org/article/Moving-to-a-stable-world-population/ Wed, 21 Jan 2009 21:38:22 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/Moving-to-a-stable-world-population/8 "Neutering" the poor?

Yes this is the charge leveled from both right and left who oppose family planning.  From the right religious dogma motivated by the unending growth formula, based on nationalistic, ethnic, and religious motives.

They want to out populate the "evildoers" and "infidels".  Their religious warriors are supposed to beat back the inhuman hordes who don't believe in their particular God.

From the left, it is the evil of capitalism that is at fault for family planning.  Poor populations must swell to overthrow the evil overlords.  The overlords are behind the "neutering".

The way to defeat both sides who oppose women's reproductive (and all other rights) is evidently to present examples of the personal family success of those who engage in family planning through popular media.

Maddona says "Papa Don't Preach" and Sarah the Wolf killer encourages teens to get pregnant.  Hollywood teen stars make underage pregnancy look glamorous, the unlimited material world purveyors tell kids to grab that lottery ticket and go for it.  Maybe you'll be the next Hannah Montana.  Goop on that makeup and start having unprotected sex.

Meanwhile in Iran and Mexico the popular media presents "soap opera"/novella parables that promote women's reproductive (and all other) rights?  And it's working?  Who knew?  Thanks Lester!  

Barack, you have got the wrong advisors if Brown, Lovins, Romm, and other voices of reason are not among them.  Could someone get Obama to check his blackberry by sending this message?  If he has enough spare time left after all the prayers?

Oh yeah, since this post was held up I see bio-d posted a new comment just before mine.  One of the best comments on this topic, written right here was a story about him talking with his daughter about this.  Mexican (and progressive american) soap writers might want to read it.  Brilliant!  Now where is that link?

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin

]]> "Neutering" the poor?

Yes this is the charge leveled from both right and left who oppose family planning.  From the right religious dogma motivated by the unending growth formula, based on nationalistic, ethnic, and religious motives.

They want to out populate the "evildoers" and "infidels".  Their religious warriors are supposed to beat back the inhuman hordes who don't believe in their particular God.

From the left, it is the evil of capitalism that is at fault for family planning.  Poor populations must swell to overthrow the evil overlords.  The overlords are behind the "neutering".

The way to defeat both sides who oppose women's reproductive (and all other rights) is evidently to present examples of the personal family success of those who engage in family planning through popular media.

Maddona says "Papa Don't Preach" and Sarah the Wolf killer encourages teens to get pregnant.  Hollywood teen stars make underage pregnancy look glamorous, the unlimited material world purveyors tell kids to grab that lottery ticket and go for it.  Maybe you'll be the next Hannah Montana.  Goop on that makeup and start having unprotected sex.

Meanwhile in Iran and Mexico the popular media presents "soap opera"/novella parables that promote women's reproductive (and all other) rights?  And it's working?  Who knew?  Thanks Lester!  

Barack, you have got the wrong advisors if Brown, Lovins, Romm, and other voices of reason are not among them.  Could someone get Obama to check his blackberry by sending this message?  If he has enough spare time left after all the prayers?

Oh yeah, since this post was held up I see bio-d posted a new comment just before mine.  One of the best comments on this topic, written right here was a story about him talking with his daughter about this.  Mexican (and progressive american) soap writers might want to read it.  Brilliant!  Now where is that link?

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin

]]> Comment #9 by usandthem http://www.grist.org/article/Moving-to-a-stable-world-population/ Thu, 22 Jan 2009 23:44:05 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/Moving-to-a-stable-world-population/9 People

I have been behind "Zero Population Growth" for decades.That just means stabilized population.One person dies,one person is born.I believe that if we had a lower stable population that we would not have the pressure that causes poverty,environmental degredation,wars,poor health,and even the need for Genetically Modified Foods or nuclear power.The article was informative and well written.Thank you Lester Brown.

Why not ask why!?

]]> People

I have been behind "Zero Population Growth" for decades.That just means stabilized population.One person dies,one person is born.I believe that if we had a lower stable population that we would not have the pressure that causes poverty,environmental degredation,wars,poor health,and even the need for Genetically Modified Foods or nuclear power.The article was informative and well written.Thank you Lester Brown.

Why not ask why!?

]]> Comment #10 by biodiversivist http://www.grist.org/article/Moving-to-a-stable-world-population/ Fri, 23 Jan 2009 09:55:22 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/Moving-to-a-stable-world-population/10 He did it

Obama has overturned the global gag rule.

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world

]]> He did it

Obama has overturned the global gag rule.

In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world

]]> Comment #11 by Suds http://www.grist.org/article/Moving-to-a-stable-world-population/ Fri, 30 Jan 2009 03:08:17 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/Moving-to-a-stable-world-population/11 The Population Bubble

Kudos to Obama for some good moves.  Beyond that, the accomplishments by so many people in so many places worldwide towards creating a stable world population are inspiring, and the continuation of this work should be a high priority.

However, one can argue that the low end world population projection of the United Nations for 2050 is not compatible with a sustainable world for humanity to live in.  If that is the case, the low end population projection is not of itself an adequate goal for population stability.  

In our worldly environment, the consequences of population growth may have been foreshadowed by the housing and finance growth and subsequent collapse.  One can consider whether the world is in a population bubble that also will burst in some unexpected way at some unexpected time.  Recognizing that a bubble exists is not, however, a reason for giving up but rather a reason for redoubling efforts.

http://sillysuds.blogspot.com/


]]> The Population Bubble

Kudos to Obama for some good moves.  Beyond that, the accomplishments by so many people in so many places worldwide towards creating a stable world population are inspiring, and the continuation of this work should be a high priority.

However, one can argue that the low end world population projection of the United Nations for 2050 is not compatible with a sustainable world for humanity to live in.  If that is the case, the low end population projection is not of itself an adequate goal for population stability.  

In our worldly environment, the consequences of population growth may have been foreshadowed by the housing and finance growth and subsequent collapse.  One can consider whether the world is in a population bubble that also will burst in some unexpected way at some unexpected time.  Recognizing that a bubble exists is not, however, a reason for giving up but rather a reason for redoubling efforts.

http://sillysuds.blogspot.com/


]]>