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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Reflections from the scene of this weekend&#8217;s G8 protests]]></title>
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            <title>Comment #1 by JohnH</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/G83/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jun 2007 16:05:32 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/G83/1</guid>
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				<p><strong>Violence at the G8 protest not the only story</strong></p><p>There are echoes of the WTO protests in Seattle in 1999. &nbsp;For a moment back then I felt hopeful that there were more people becoming fed up with the economic system we have created and the bad effects it has on our environment and our lives. &nbsp;But the media focused on the violence and the anarchy, and the more important message that our society needs to change its ways seemed to be lost. &nbsp;</p><p>
September 11, 2001 and the subsequent, invevitable unleashing of the military machine we've never stopped building (even in the absence of legitimate enemies) drowned out most of the remaining voices for change in America for a few years. &nbsp;But now the folly of believing that military might is the tool we should use to bring peace to the rest of the world has become obvious to most people again. &nbsp; </p><p>
Here's hoping that the moment is right for those voices to find their audience. &nbsp;Maybe this time we can find a way to get off of the insane treadmill that led us here for good. &nbsp;America budgeted nearly $500 billion for "defense" this year not counting what we're spending on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. &nbsp;Surely we could have a more than adequate defense for a fifth of that,or less. &nbsp;I wonder what we could do with all of the money we could save and all of the brain power we could redirect to peaceful, useful projects.</p>
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				<p><strong>Violence at the G8 protest not the only story</strong></p><p>There are echoes of the WTO protests in Seattle in 1999. &nbsp;For a moment back then I felt hopeful that there were more people becoming fed up with the economic system we have created and the bad effects it has on our environment and our lives. &nbsp;But the media focused on the violence and the anarchy, and the more important message that our society needs to change its ways seemed to be lost. &nbsp;</p><p>
September 11, 2001 and the subsequent, invevitable unleashing of the military machine we've never stopped building (even in the absence of legitimate enemies) drowned out most of the remaining voices for change in America for a few years. &nbsp;But now the folly of believing that military might is the tool we should use to bring peace to the rest of the world has become obvious to most people again. &nbsp; </p><p>
Here's hoping that the moment is right for those voices to find their audience. &nbsp;Maybe this time we can find a way to get off of the insane treadmill that led us here for good. &nbsp;America budgeted nearly $500 billion for "defense" this year not counting what we're spending on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. &nbsp;Surely we could have a more than adequate defense for a fifth of that,or less. &nbsp;I wonder what we could do with all of the money we could save and all of the brain power we could redirect to peaceful, useful projects.</p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by Whiskerfish</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/G83/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jun 2007 22:28:00 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/G83/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>You don't shape the story</strong></p><p>March organisers can't hope to shape their story within the mainstream media. The media biz has a small bunch of set storylines that everything in the world gets forced into, and if you don't fit you get made to fit or ignored.</p><p>
If the Black Bloc protests, then they'll make it a story about violence. If they don't, then a march of anything less than a million people 'isn't a story'.</p><p>
As the old adage goes: A sign of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results each time.</p><p>
Marches like this are, to the media at least, the same thing over and over again. They're going to treat them the same way, over and over again. Which is to say that images of violence will overshadow anything, and the whole story will be reduced to a crude, unresolved polemic about good guys and bad guys. </p><p>
Don't be surprised that the message doesn't get out in the way that the organisers wanted it to, or that the politicians don't listen. The whole system's structure mitigates powerfully against that happening!</p><p>
Whiskerfish</p>
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				<p><strong>You don't shape the story</strong></p><p>March organisers can't hope to shape their story within the mainstream media. The media biz has a small bunch of set storylines that everything in the world gets forced into, and if you don't fit you get made to fit or ignored.</p><p>
If the Black Bloc protests, then they'll make it a story about violence. If they don't, then a march of anything less than a million people 'isn't a story'.</p><p>
As the old adage goes: A sign of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results each time.</p><p>
Marches like this are, to the media at least, the same thing over and over again. They're going to treat them the same way, over and over again. Which is to say that images of violence will overshadow anything, and the whole story will be reduced to a crude, unresolved polemic about good guys and bad guys. </p><p>
Don't be surprised that the message doesn't get out in the way that the organisers wanted it to, or that the politicians don't listen. The whole system's structure mitigates powerfully against that happening!</p><p>
Whiskerfish</p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by readDERRICKJENSEN</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/G83/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2007 04:00:04 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/G83/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>Read Derrick Jensen's 'Endgame-Vol II Resistance'</strong></p><p>No, no, no. You've got it all wrong.</p><p>
Derrick Jensen makes the case in 'Endgame' that corporate gov'ts/polluters/whatever are abusers, the same as rapists, etc., and that the only way that an abuser ever stops is if he's forced to. S/he will stop only when there is absolutely no other choice. </p><p>
Those kids in black - God bless and keep them safe. </p><p>
And damn you for damning them. </p><p>
All the grunt work of any movement is done by those with the energy and the uneroded ideals: generally, the young. I support them and may even join them at some point. And I'm approaching 50.</p><p>
Before the Iraq war, I went several times to Washington to protest. I learned then that peaceful protest in this day and age (was it ever different? - probably not) is useless. Tens of thousands of people attended, and America and the world never knew about it. It went unremarked by the corporate media. And nothing was stopped, changed or affected in any way. NOTHING!</p><p>
Never, ever let what they (the corporate they) say about you, or call you, affect your actions. Do the right thing always. And the right thing is to STOP THEM ... by any means necessary. </p><p>
Until you join those kids in black nothing will change. They are the future of protests, those brave few who actually do something.</p><p>
Don't make them fight you (defend themselves against you) in order to fight the corportate devils.</p><p>
Read 'Endgame'. It will change you. It did me.</p>
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				<p><strong>Read Derrick Jensen's 'Endgame-Vol II Resistance'</strong></p><p>No, no, no. You've got it all wrong.</p><p>
Derrick Jensen makes the case in 'Endgame' that corporate gov'ts/polluters/whatever are abusers, the same as rapists, etc., and that the only way that an abuser ever stops is if he's forced to. S/he will stop only when there is absolutely no other choice. </p><p>
Those kids in black - God bless and keep them safe. </p><p>
And damn you for damning them. </p><p>
All the grunt work of any movement is done by those with the energy and the uneroded ideals: generally, the young. I support them and may even join them at some point. And I'm approaching 50.</p><p>
Before the Iraq war, I went several times to Washington to protest. I learned then that peaceful protest in this day and age (was it ever different? - probably not) is useless. Tens of thousands of people attended, and America and the world never knew about it. It went unremarked by the corporate media. And nothing was stopped, changed or affected in any way. NOTHING!</p><p>
Never, ever let what they (the corporate they) say about you, or call you, affect your actions. Do the right thing always. And the right thing is to STOP THEM ... by any means necessary. </p><p>
Until you join those kids in black nothing will change. They are the future of protests, those brave few who actually do something.</p><p>
Don't make them fight you (defend themselves against you) in order to fight the corportate devils.</p><p>
Read 'Endgame'. It will change you. It did me.</p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by Werdna</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/G83/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2007 15:44:11 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/G83/4</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>An embarrassment to the environmental movement</strong></p><p>The violent protesters are an embarrassment to the whole environmental movement (and all other movements, except maybe bowel movements). &nbsp;More good has come from the peaceful organizing, protests, and working within the political system than has ever come from violent protests.</p><p>
The work is slow, but the results are measurable.</p>
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				<p><strong>An embarrassment to the environmental movement</strong></p><p>The violent protesters are an embarrassment to the whole environmental movement (and all other movements, except maybe bowel movements). &nbsp;More good has come from the peaceful organizing, protests, and working within the political system than has ever come from violent protests.</p><p>
The work is slow, but the results are measurable.</p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by Tycho</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/G83/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jun 2007 13:00:19 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/G83/5</guid>
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				<p><strong>Hold on</strong></p><p>Very nice piece, </p><p>
i was in rostock for the week and think Michael got it totally right. The vibe was experienced as very positive and constructive all along the alternative summit &#225;nd the protests. <br>
There was a victorious atmosphere at the campsite, the night of the blockades, right after the provocative policeforce retreated their surrounding of the camp.<br>
So this is how we get to the violence.</p><p>
Police expected it, provoked it, and got it.<br>
Black Block cleares the way for people to demonstrate in piece, and violence is only a reaction to the denial of the right to speak one's mind. I saw it happen, i saw discipline when it was needed, and i saw them make the peaceful protest possible.</br></br></br></p>
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				<p><strong>Hold on</strong></p><p>Very nice piece, </p><p>
i was in rostock for the week and think Michael got it totally right. The vibe was experienced as very positive and constructive all along the alternative summit &#225;nd the protests. <br>
There was a victorious atmosphere at the campsite, the night of the blockades, right after the provocative policeforce retreated their surrounding of the camp.<br>
So this is how we get to the violence.</p><p>
Police expected it, provoked it, and got it.<br>
Black Block cleares the way for people to demonstrate in piece, and violence is only a reaction to the denial of the right to speak one's mind. I saw it happen, i saw discipline when it was needed, and i saw them make the peaceful protest possible.</br></br></br></p>
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