<![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for AAAS: Climate change is coming much harder, much faster than predicted]]> Grist Comment Feed en Comment #1 by Backcut http://www.grist.org/article/Feed-a-loop-starve-a-planet/ Wed, 18 Feb 2009 09:32:32 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/Feed-a-loop-starve-a-planet/1 No solution??!?

Once again, people point at dying forests and only talk about climate change impacting them. Of course, there's never any mention of how unnatural they are (and getting worse), with 10 to 1000 times more trees per acre than in pre-historic times.

Where's your solution to our dying forests, folks?!?! C'mon, the clock is ticking and the bark beetles are already stirring in some western areas.

Scenic pics at http://Lhfotoware.blogspot.com

]]> No solution??!?

Once again, people point at dying forests and only talk about climate change impacting them. Of course, there's never any mention of how unnatural they are (and getting worse), with 10 to 1000 times more trees per acre than in pre-historic times.

Where's your solution to our dying forests, folks?!?! C'mon, the clock is ticking and the bark beetles are already stirring in some western areas.

Scenic pics at http://Lhfotoware.blogspot.com

]]> Comment #2 by GreyFlcn http://www.grist.org/article/Feed-a-loop-starve-a-planet/ Wed, 18 Feb 2009 10:31:51 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/Feed-a-loop-starve-a-planet/2 Feedbacks

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clathrate_gun_hypothesis

-David Ahlport

]]> Feedbacks

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clathrate_gun_hypothesis

-David Ahlport

]]> Comment #3 by Pangolin http://www.grist.org/article/Feed-a-loop-starve-a-planet/ Wed, 18 Feb 2009 15:27:13 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/Feed-a-loop-starve-a-planet/3 Forests? Burn them.

It's not like we aren't familiar with the drill. The three options are:hand cut fire lanes and fuel reduction"natural" wildfires (hot season fires started by man or lightning)cool season "controlled" fires.Since we don't seem to be interested in paying for option 1 and option 3 is too scary for urban-focused society to deal with the wildfires raging through suburbs will continue until the survivors get a clue.

Why are you bugging Grist about it anyway? Forest fuels management is a local or regional issue that involves loads of public education to get anywhere. As a global issue it's one of those tsk, tsk, matters like arctic methane release. It can ruin all your tomorrows but there's little you can do today to fix it.

Bug your neighbors who won't clear fire lanes around their houses.

Put the Carbon Back

]]> Forests? Burn them.

It's not like we aren't familiar with the drill. The three options are:hand cut fire lanes and fuel reduction"natural" wildfires (hot season fires started by man or lightning)cool season "controlled" fires.Since we don't seem to be interested in paying for option 1 and option 3 is too scary for urban-focused society to deal with the wildfires raging through suburbs will continue until the survivors get a clue.

Why are you bugging Grist about it anyway? Forest fuels management is a local or regional issue that involves loads of public education to get anywhere. As a global issue it's one of those tsk, tsk, matters like arctic methane release. It can ruin all your tomorrows but there's little you can do today to fix it.

Bug your neighbors who won't clear fire lanes around their houses.

Put the Carbon Back

]]> Comment #4 by Backcut http://www.grist.org/article/Feed-a-loop-starve-a-planet/ Wed, 18 Feb 2009 23:11:04 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/Feed-a-loop-starve-a-planet/4 Option #4

Restoration Forestry can reduce fuels while restoring ecosystem function and resilience to climate change.

But, of course, THAT option has already been eliminated because someone might profit from it.

I just want people to be clear about what is at stake and what we are doing (and not doing) about this massive ongoing disaster.

While we were progressive enough to vote in a new paradigm, we're still stuck in the last millenium on saving our forests, ignoring science and embracing destructive wildfires.

Scenic pics at http://Lhfotoware.blogspot.com

]]> Option #4

Restoration Forestry can reduce fuels while restoring ecosystem function and resilience to climate change.

But, of course, THAT option has already been eliminated because someone might profit from it.

I just want people to be clear about what is at stake and what we are doing (and not doing) about this massive ongoing disaster.

While we were progressive enough to vote in a new paradigm, we're still stuck in the last millenium on saving our forests, ignoring science and embracing destructive wildfires.

Scenic pics at http://Lhfotoware.blogspot.com

]]> Comment #5 by amazingdrx http://www.grist.org/article/Feed-a-loop-starve-a-planet/ Thu, 19 Feb 2009 00:11:18 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/Feed-a-loop-starve-a-planet/5 "The time to act is now"

So waiting until 2014 to ascertain where we at in terms of the climate tipping point is aok?

"complicated models of interconnected ecosystem feedbacks" are needed now, 2014 will almost surely be too late to cancel the exponential GHG climate change curve with a commercial exponential renewable energy/organic ag  growth curve.

We need this research now, you might want to demand that Joe and maybe enlist as many scientists and activists as you can to do the same.  Mass delusional media constructed collective consciousness needs a jolt of reality.

BTW backcut, since when has profit motivated commercial logging ever had any positive effect?  You are barking up the wrong tree again with your "free" market talking point spiel.  only a revived CCC, public works job stimulating plan will help save our natural "infrastructure".  

 

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin

]]> "The time to act is now"

So waiting until 2014 to ascertain where we at in terms of the climate tipping point is aok?

"complicated models of interconnected ecosystem feedbacks" are needed now, 2014 will almost surely be too late to cancel the exponential GHG climate change curve with a commercial exponential renewable energy/organic ag  growth curve.

We need this research now, you might want to demand that Joe and maybe enlist as many scientists and activists as you can to do the same.  Mass delusional media constructed collective consciousness needs a jolt of reality.

BTW backcut, since when has profit motivated commercial logging ever had any positive effect?  You are barking up the wrong tree again with your "free" market talking point spiel.  only a revived CCC, public works job stimulating plan will help save our natural "infrastructure".  

 

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin

]]> Comment #6 by Backcut http://www.grist.org/article/Feed-a-loop-starve-a-planet/ Thu, 19 Feb 2009 00:33:16 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/Feed-a-loop-starve-a-planet/6 Profit

Someone will always make a profit off the forests. Right now, the firefighters and support people are making money hand over fist. The billions spent on putting the fires out are nothing compared to the ecosystem losses. Are we going to trust firefighters to make the right decisions when determining whether a fire should not be fought? Big fires bring in big bucks and there's no public oversight or limits on the purse strings. A $3000 fire is allowed to burn into a $100,000,000 firestorm.

Remember, wildfires are NEVER good for the environment.

Scenic pics at http://Lhfotoware.blogspot.com

]]> Profit

Someone will always make a profit off the forests. Right now, the firefighters and support people are making money hand over fist. The billions spent on putting the fires out are nothing compared to the ecosystem losses. Are we going to trust firefighters to make the right decisions when determining whether a fire should not be fought? Big fires bring in big bucks and there's no public oversight or limits on the purse strings. A $3000 fire is allowed to burn into a $100,000,000 firestorm.

Remember, wildfires are NEVER good for the environment.

Scenic pics at http://Lhfotoware.blogspot.com

]]> Comment #7 by amazingdrx http://www.grist.org/article/Feed-a-loop-starve-a-planet/ Thu, 19 Feb 2009 01:03:00 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/Feed-a-loop-starve-a-planet/7 Still avoids

The question?  How could commercial logging in the unregulated form it takes in your preffered "free" market system, ever actually help to stop the dangerous firestorms on our near term horizon?

It can't.  Since you want to stick with for profit forestry, it is your responsibility to explain how.  Not mine.

The current procedure for commercial logging doesn't even specify burning slash, much less recycling it safely and doing the same with unwanted dead wood.  As you have said many times, it's not profitable.

You are stuck with doing more than damning "preservationists", as is your usual shtick.  You have to propose some way that for profit logging could be reformed and regulated.  And since you are a reagan revolutionary when it comes to government regulation, you are stuck on the horns of self-contradiction.

As are all who still champion "free" market corporatist lobbyist planned economy, over government regulated really free market economy, steered away from corporate monopolist driven disaster.  The huge collective  disaster composed of all the big disasters related to deregulation.

Climate, economic, foreign policy/national security, energy, health, ..and on and on..disaster after disaster all rolling into one big "greed is good" end of life as we know it.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin

]]> Still avoids

The question?  How could commercial logging in the unregulated form it takes in your preffered "free" market system, ever actually help to stop the dangerous firestorms on our near term horizon?

It can't.  Since you want to stick with for profit forestry, it is your responsibility to explain how.  Not mine.

The current procedure for commercial logging doesn't even specify burning slash, much less recycling it safely and doing the same with unwanted dead wood.  As you have said many times, it's not profitable.

You are stuck with doing more than damning "preservationists", as is your usual shtick.  You have to propose some way that for profit logging could be reformed and regulated.  And since you are a reagan revolutionary when it comes to government regulation, you are stuck on the horns of self-contradiction.

As are all who still champion "free" market corporatist lobbyist planned economy, over government regulated really free market economy, steered away from corporate monopolist driven disaster.  The huge collective  disaster composed of all the big disasters related to deregulation.

Climate, economic, foreign policy/national security, energy, health, ..and on and on..disaster after disaster all rolling into one big "greed is good" end of life as we know it.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin

]]> Comment #8 by Backcut http://www.grist.org/article/Feed-a-loop-starve-a-planet/ Thu, 19 Feb 2009 01:38:52 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/Feed-a-loop-starve-a-planet/8 Not my bag!

Again, DRX, I don't work for the timber industry anymore. Again, you display a lack of knowledge about our National Forests, too.

I just know that we CAN save our forests from the worst impacts of climate change. It's up to the Obama Administration to respond to this disaster. I'm just not seeing ANY solution coming from you guys.

Martyrdom for our forests isn't an idea the general public are going to like. The clock is still ticking, folks. An incident like we've seen in Australia is inevitable. What will Obama do about it?

Scenic pics at http://Lhfotoware.blogspot.com

]]> Not my bag!

Again, DRX, I don't work for the timber industry anymore. Again, you display a lack of knowledge about our National Forests, too.

I just know that we CAN save our forests from the worst impacts of climate change. It's up to the Obama Administration to respond to this disaster. I'm just not seeing ANY solution coming from you guys.

Martyrdom for our forests isn't an idea the general public are going to like. The clock is still ticking, folks. An incident like we've seen in Australia is inevitable. What will Obama do about it?

Scenic pics at http://Lhfotoware.blogspot.com

]]> Comment #9 by amazingdrx http://www.grist.org/article/Feed-a-loop-starve-a-planet/ Thu, 19 Feb 2009 02:12:16 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/Feed-a-loop-starve-a-planet/9 Bidness as usual?

We "guys" have proposed solutions, namely government jobs recycling the mess that "free" market unregulated logging and GHG intensive industries have made of the climate and forests.

The fact that you can't see that is not our fault, maybe it's your reagan revolution blinders?

Again, you worked for industry, you need to explain how we can take the same inaction, letting industry regulate itself, but expect a different result.  The rehabilitation of our forests.

We have given up on unregulated logging industry forest "greed is good" management.  You seem to think it is the only way to proceed.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin

]]> Bidness as usual?

We "guys" have proposed solutions, namely government jobs recycling the mess that "free" market unregulated logging and GHG intensive industries have made of the climate and forests.

The fact that you can't see that is not our fault, maybe it's your reagan revolution blinders?

Again, you worked for industry, you need to explain how we can take the same inaction, letting industry regulate itself, but expect a different result.  The rehabilitation of our forests.

We have given up on unregulated logging industry forest "greed is good" management.  You seem to think it is the only way to proceed.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin

]]> Comment #10 by Backcut http://www.grist.org/article/Feed-a-loop-starve-a-planet/ Thu, 19 Feb 2009 05:44:44 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/Feed-a-loop-starve-a-planet/10 Once again...

I see no desire at all from the Obama camp to learn about saving forests, preferring to watch them die, rot and burn. DRX chooses to spout lies about Federal forest management. Yes, they ARE lies because I have discounted his accusations many times.

There is no one-size-fits-all solution and THAT'S why we aren't hearing anything coming from the left on this forest emergency. To many people, it's just not politically palatable to do what it will take to save our forests. Also, they just aren't progressive enough in their thinking to throw away their partisan politics in favor of sound science.

Unfortunately, our forests will suffer horribly, billions in assets will go up in smoke and people will die, just like in Australia. History will say that we did have the chance to save those forests but, emotional beliefs trumped science.

Again!

Scenic pics at http://Lhfotoware.blogspot.com

]]> Once again...

I see no desire at all from the Obama camp to learn about saving forests, preferring to watch them die, rot and burn. DRX chooses to spout lies about Federal forest management. Yes, they ARE lies because I have discounted his accusations many times.

There is no one-size-fits-all solution and THAT'S why we aren't hearing anything coming from the left on this forest emergency. To many people, it's just not politically palatable to do what it will take to save our forests. Also, they just aren't progressive enough in their thinking to throw away their partisan politics in favor of sound science.

Unfortunately, our forests will suffer horribly, billions in assets will go up in smoke and people will die, just like in Australia. History will say that we did have the chance to save those forests but, emotional beliefs trumped science.

Again!

Scenic pics at http://Lhfotoware.blogspot.com

]]> Comment #11 by Backcut http://www.grist.org/article/Feed-a-loop-starve-a-planet/ Thu, 19 Feb 2009 05:50:24 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/Feed-a-loop-starve-a-planet/11 BTW

I have NEVER voted Republican, and your "solution" is grossly inadequate for the mega-task at hand. You obviously know very little about modern western forest management, DRX. Clearly you, and others, will continue to punish ALL foresters for eco-sins committed in the last millenium.

I have no financial stake in this, other than wanting healthy, resilient dynamic forest ecosystems for me to photograph. Also, I'd like my home in the forest to not burn up in the next firestorm the Feds have planned where I live.

Scenic pics at http://Lhfotoware.blogspot.com

]]> BTW

I have NEVER voted Republican, and your "solution" is grossly inadequate for the mega-task at hand. You obviously know very little about modern western forest management, DRX. Clearly you, and others, will continue to punish ALL foresters for eco-sins committed in the last millenium.

I have no financial stake in this, other than wanting healthy, resilient dynamic forest ecosystems for me to photograph. Also, I'd like my home in the forest to not burn up in the next firestorm the Feds have planned where I live.

Scenic pics at http://Lhfotoware.blogspot.com

]]> Comment #12 by amazingdrx http://www.grist.org/article/Feed-a-loop-starve-a-planet/ Thu, 19 Feb 2009 06:34:27 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/Feed-a-loop-starve-a-planet/12 All you have to do

Is admit that logging industry self regulation has not worked and that the system needs oversight and reform.  

I've only seen the same old "free" market only- industry-can-save-the-forests anti-environmentalist rhetoric, eventually devolving into predictions of armageddon placing all the blame on preservationist liberal treehuggers.

You have already admitted that the logging industry won't recycle waste wood because there's no profit in it.  The only alternative is government investment in not-for-profit programs like the CCC to do the job of forest fire storm prevention.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin

]]> All you have to do

Is admit that logging industry self regulation has not worked and that the system needs oversight and reform.  

I've only seen the same old "free" market only- industry-can-save-the-forests anti-environmentalist rhetoric, eventually devolving into predictions of armageddon placing all the blame on preservationist liberal treehuggers.

You have already admitted that the logging industry won't recycle waste wood because there's no profit in it.  The only alternative is government investment in not-for-profit programs like the CCC to do the job of forest fire storm prevention.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin

]]> Comment #13 by Backcut http://www.grist.org/article/Feed-a-loop-starve-a-planet/ Thu, 19 Feb 2009 07:43:24 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/Feed-a-loop-starve-a-planet/13 No one wins-bye bye forests

8^X

Scenic pics at http://Lhfotoware.blogspot.com

]]> No one wins-bye bye forests

8^X

Scenic pics at http://Lhfotoware.blogspot.com

]]>