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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for TVA could have planned for a normal accident such as the coal ash spill in Kingston, Tenn.]]></title>
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            <title>Comment #1 by Ted Nace</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/Expected-values-and-Normal-Accidents/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jan 2009 04:46:42 -0800</pubDate>
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				<p><strong>If only it were so<p>I like your article very much, except for the sanguine presumption that any sort of weighing of utility actually does occur in regulatory matters regarding power plants (not to mention the more comprehensive analysis you describe).<p>
Maybe this is done somewhere. If so, I'd love to know. You are certainly not correct in saying that "Analyses like Environmental Impact Statements -- required for major federal investments under the National Environmental Policy Act -- are still based on what economists call 'expected utility theory' (EUT)."<p>
There is no such requirement in NEPA. The law creates a lot of fat reports, but it really doesn't actually provide any legal handle for someone to assert: "Look--this project does more harm than good, so it must not be approved." Environmental Impact Statements just take an inventory of impacts. If adverse impacts are identified, then alternative decisions must be identified. But that's generally as far as it goes. The process does not involve estimating or weighing of utilities. Alternatives are generally raised and dismissed in a pro forma fashion.<p>
In fact, there is even one state (North Dakota) that <a href="http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=North_Dakota_and_coal" rel="nofollow">expressly prohibits raising "externality" issues in power plant siting permit decision-making.<p>
It would be great if utilities really were measured and weighed. Of course, to be done properly this would include probabilistic weighing of "accidents," as you describe. Far fewer coal plants would be built. Probably none.<p>
(Maybe I'm wrong -- I'd love to know of any part of federal, state, or local regulation that formally applies utility theory.)<p>
By the way, the Kingston Plant, indeed <a href="http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Existing_U.S._Coal_Plants" rel="nofollow">half of all U.S. coal plants, was built before the passage of NEPA in 1969. Perhaps some of the subsequent retrofitting has been subject to an EIS -- would be interesting to find out.<p>
Thanks for raising an important point. In the nation of Bhutan, it's national policy to "maximize happiness." Why not here?

<p>Help build <a href="http://coalswarm.org/" rel="nofollow">CoalSwarm-- a shared informational resource on coal and alternatives to coal.</a></p></p></a></p></p></p></a></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>If only it were so<p>I like your article very much, except for the sanguine presumption that any sort of weighing of utility actually does occur in regulatory matters regarding power plants (not to mention the more comprehensive analysis you describe).<p>
Maybe this is done somewhere. If so, I'd love to know. You are certainly not correct in saying that "Analyses like Environmental Impact Statements -- required for major federal investments under the National Environmental Policy Act -- are still based on what economists call 'expected utility theory' (EUT)."<p>
There is no such requirement in NEPA. The law creates a lot of fat reports, but it really doesn't actually provide any legal handle for someone to assert: "Look--this project does more harm than good, so it must not be approved." Environmental Impact Statements just take an inventory of impacts. If adverse impacts are identified, then alternative decisions must be identified. But that's generally as far as it goes. The process does not involve estimating or weighing of utilities. Alternatives are generally raised and dismissed in a pro forma fashion.<p>
In fact, there is even one state (North Dakota) that <a href="http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=North_Dakota_and_coal" rel="nofollow">expressly prohibits raising "externality" issues in power plant siting permit decision-making.<p>
It would be great if utilities really were measured and weighed. Of course, to be done properly this would include probabilistic weighing of "accidents," as you describe. Far fewer coal plants would be built. Probably none.<p>
(Maybe I'm wrong -- I'd love to know of any part of federal, state, or local regulation that formally applies utility theory.)<p>
By the way, the Kingston Plant, indeed <a href="http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Existing_U.S._Coal_Plants" rel="nofollow">half of all U.S. coal plants, was built before the passage of NEPA in 1969. Perhaps some of the subsequent retrofitting has been subject to an EIS -- would be interesting to find out.<p>
Thanks for raising an important point. In the nation of Bhutan, it's national policy to "maximize happiness." Why not here?

<p>Help build <a href="http://coalswarm.org/" rel="nofollow">CoalSwarm-- a shared informational resource on coal and alternatives to coal.</a></p></p></a></p></p></p></a></p></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by Peter B. Meyer</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/Expected-values-and-Normal-Accidents/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jan 2009 07:25:45 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/Expected-values-and-Normal-Accidents/2</guid>
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				<p><strong>My mistake, Ted ...</strong></p><p>... and thanks for the correction. </p><p>
I was asked several times in an earlier professional incarnation to add comment on the presumed utility impacts of proposed actions, nominally "as part of" EIS arguments. Given your comment, I'd have to assume that I was being asked to comment on add-ons or arguments over the required statements. (That would presumably be the very extensions that north Dakota expressly banned.)</p><p>
So the quality of argument is worse than I thought -- but the nature of the expected utility arguments in many policy debates beyond the EIS findings remains the same. </p><p>
Peter</p>
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				<p><strong>My mistake, Ted ...</strong></p><p>... and thanks for the correction. </p><p>
I was asked several times in an earlier professional incarnation to add comment on the presumed utility impacts of proposed actions, nominally "as part of" EIS arguments. Given your comment, I'd have to assume that I was being asked to comment on add-ons or arguments over the required statements. (That would presumably be the very extensions that north Dakota expressly banned.)</p><p>
So the quality of argument is worse than I thought -- but the nature of the expected utility arguments in many policy debates beyond the EIS findings remains the same. </p><p>
Peter</p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by SouthernBeale</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/Expected-values-and-Normal-Accidents/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jan 2009 10:47:38 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/Expected-values-and-Normal-Accidents/3</guid>
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				<p><strong>Nobody Could Have Anticipated ....</strong></p><p>Just repeat that line over and over. It's been America's mantra for the past 8 years.</p>
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				<p><strong>Nobody Could Have Anticipated ....</strong></p><p>Just repeat that line over and over. It's been America's mantra for the past 8 years.</p>
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