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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for On the verge of revolutionizing the U.S. power grid]]></title>
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	<description>Grist Comment Feed</description>
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            <title>Comment #1 by ce1907</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/A-storm-resistant-power-grid/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 01 Feb 2009 23:35:44 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/A-storm-resistant-power-grid/1</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>maybe you know</strong></p><p>what is the deal with software standards for the smart grid?</p><p>
reading random web pages, it seems that there are about 8 levels of functionality where software standards are needed so equipment can be purchased that will talk together</p><p>
reading random pages, my impression is that 2007 Energy Bill called for a task force, with NIST (overdue) on a report in Dec 2008, and recommendations to FERC, for action (maybe)<br>
but NIST is really waiting for industry<br>
and industry is putzing around because different corp golaiths have vested interests in their own versions of standards</p><p>
a) &nbsp;is this all wrong?<br>
b) &nbsp;are standards not really necessary before big investment?<br>
c) &nbsp;what the hell is the plan (if any) to move the standards show along?<br>
d) &nbsp;what do you want to spend money on immediately for "d"?</br></br></br></br></br></p>
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			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>maybe you know</strong></p><p>what is the deal with software standards for the smart grid?</p><p>
reading random web pages, it seems that there are about 8 levels of functionality where software standards are needed so equipment can be purchased that will talk together</p><p>
reading random pages, my impression is that 2007 Energy Bill called for a task force, with NIST (overdue) on a report in Dec 2008, and recommendations to FERC, for action (maybe)<br>
but NIST is really waiting for industry<br>
and industry is putzing around because different corp golaiths have vested interests in their own versions of standards</p><p>
a) &nbsp;is this all wrong?<br>
b) &nbsp;are standards not really necessary before big investment?<br>
c) &nbsp;what the hell is the plan (if any) to move the standards show along?<br>
d) &nbsp;what do you want to spend money on immediately for "d"?</br></br></br></br></br></p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by racc</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/A-storm-resistant-power-grid/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 03:36:10 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/A-storm-resistant-power-grid/2</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Time to Get Real<p>The Plug-in vehicles running vehicle-to-grid is just another nice idea isn't going to happen as people expect. Batteries are really expensive so people will get the smallest batteries they can get by with. Charging during the day is going to be the reality for the commute home. As well as being expensive, the batteries add weight which will reduce the efficiency of the vehicles.<p>
Larger batteries will likely also cause shortages or at least high prices for the resources used to make the batteries.

<p>It is not about us, it is about everyone.

<a href="http://www.everyoneforever.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.everyoneforever.org/</a></p></p></p></strong></p>
			]]></description>
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				<p><strong>Time to Get Real<p>The Plug-in vehicles running vehicle-to-grid is just another nice idea isn't going to happen as people expect. Batteries are really expensive so people will get the smallest batteries they can get by with. Charging during the day is going to be the reality for the commute home. As well as being expensive, the batteries add weight which will reduce the efficiency of the vehicles.<p>
Larger batteries will likely also cause shortages or at least high prices for the resources used to make the batteries.

<p>It is not about us, it is about everyone.

<a href="http://www.everyoneforever.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.everyoneforever.org/</a></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by amazingdrx</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/A-storm-resistant-power-grid/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 04:08:46 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/A-storm-resistant-power-grid/3</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Excellent!</strong></p><p>Rachel is with us! &nbsp;Some of you smart grid mavens should be on her show Patrick.</p><p>
Power up the reliable smart grid, with built in backup everywhere, in every building, on farms with biogas and wind, on homes and buildings with grid connected solar cogeneration. &nbsp;Loops that link together that power every building right up to the downed power line. &nbsp;From either direction so breaking a loop dosen't power down a whole region.</p><p>
The only way to have a really reliable grid is to make it a really adaptable grid, where each cell of the network, each building, has at least emergency backup.

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog     John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin </p></p>
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				<p><strong>Excellent!</strong></p><p>Rachel is with us! &nbsp;Some of you smart grid mavens should be on her show Patrick.</p><p>
Power up the reliable smart grid, with built in backup everywhere, in every building, on farms with biogas and wind, on homes and buildings with grid connected solar cogeneration. &nbsp;Loops that link together that power every building right up to the downed power line. &nbsp;From either direction so breaking a loop dosen't power down a whole region.</p><p>
The only way to have a really reliable grid is to make it a really adaptable grid, where each cell of the network, each building, has at least emergency backup.

<p>http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog     John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin </p></p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by Craig Allen</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/A-storm-resistant-power-grid/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 09:57:16 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/A-storm-resistant-power-grid/4</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>A real-life example</strong></p><p>Over the past week Melbourne has been suffering under a heat wave. The temperature got up to 45 degrees celcius. The rail network collapsed due to warped rails and failing air conditioners on trains. Forrest fires broke out. Dozens of old folks keeled over from heat stroke. And suburbs were blacked out periodically for several days to deal with power usage surges due to the use of air-conditioning. </p><p>
I work from home as does my business partner. When the power went off it killed my computer (i.e. it wouldn't turn on again thereafter). Power went off in his suburb also, but he has an 8 panel grid connected solar panel system. He didn't even realise the power had gone down. I lost 4 days work. He's goading me about finally going solar.</p><p>
If a substantial portion of Melbourne were to go solar, then heatwave induced blackouts would be a thing of the past.</p><p>
I'm not holding my breath though. The state government is deeply enmeshed with big coal and has been furiously justifying it's poor planning by claiming that no one could possibly foresee and plan for such extreme heatwave events.</p>
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				<p><strong>A real-life example</strong></p><p>Over the past week Melbourne has been suffering under a heat wave. The temperature got up to 45 degrees celcius. The rail network collapsed due to warped rails and failing air conditioners on trains. Forrest fires broke out. Dozens of old folks keeled over from heat stroke. And suburbs were blacked out periodically for several days to deal with power usage surges due to the use of air-conditioning. </p><p>
I work from home as does my business partner. When the power went off it killed my computer (i.e. it wouldn't turn on again thereafter). Power went off in his suburb also, but he has an 8 panel grid connected solar panel system. He didn't even realise the power had gone down. I lost 4 days work. He's goading me about finally going solar.</p><p>
If a substantial portion of Melbourne were to go solar, then heatwave induced blackouts would be a thing of the past.</p><p>
I'm not holding my breath though. The state government is deeply enmeshed with big coal and has been furiously justifying it's poor planning by claiming that no one could possibly foresee and plan for such extreme heatwave events.</p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by Pangolin</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/A-storm-resistant-power-grid/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 10:28:28 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/A-storm-resistant-power-grid/5</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Some power beats none! <p>All of the naysayers might want to think that rooftop solar panels that are only going to run your fridge, 2 lights and the laptop beat the snot out of no power at all. That could be medicines and frozen foods during a summer outage or just enough to run the well and the ground-loop geothermal in a winter outage. <p>
If your other option is wearing all your clothes at once and playing frozen pipes bingo with vodka shots I'm guessing a few solar panels trumps. Other options available for buildings are combined heat and power using natural gas or on-site methane digestors &nbsp;(like my local brewery uses) and flywheel batteries that store more energy cheaper than chemical batteries do. <p>
A local power outage last year had people coming from 3 counties to look for generator gas because their local gas stations couldn't run their own pumps. Like that song says: "A little bit is better than nada. You get a little bit; or nothing at all." <br>


<p><a href="http://putcarbonback.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">Put  the Carbon Back</a></p></br></p></p></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>Some power beats none! <p>All of the naysayers might want to think that rooftop solar panels that are only going to run your fridge, 2 lights and the laptop beat the snot out of no power at all. That could be medicines and frozen foods during a summer outage or just enough to run the well and the ground-loop geothermal in a winter outage. <p>
If your other option is wearing all your clothes at once and playing frozen pipes bingo with vodka shots I'm guessing a few solar panels trumps. Other options available for buildings are combined heat and power using natural gas or on-site methane digestors &nbsp;(like my local brewery uses) and flywheel batteries that store more energy cheaper than chemical batteries do. <p>
A local power outage last year had people coming from 3 counties to look for generator gas because their local gas stations couldn't run their own pumps. Like that song says: "A little bit is better than nada. You get a little bit; or nothing at all." <br>


<p><a href="http://putcarbonback.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">Put  the Carbon Back</a></p></br></p></p></p></strong></p>
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            <title>Comment #6 by Patrick Mazza</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/A-storm-resistant-power-grid/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 09:02:31 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/A-storm-resistant-power-grid/6</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>Standards</strong></p><p>Have not been tracking the standards study ordered by the Energy Bill. &nbsp;There was an uproar recently over a provision someone inserted in the stimulus to limit smart grid money to Internet-based systems, which would lock out other standards like Zigbee. &nbsp;In general, we don't need standards to get moving, but should be getting at them as quickly as possible. &nbsp;GridWise Architecture Council is the group tasked with this.</p><p>
On the D grid I would start with Advanced Metering Infrastructure to really get a data flow and communications system going. &nbsp;With that I would start a demand response program, probably engaging larger customers first. &nbsp;I would also companion the effort with a energy efficiency/retrofit initiative backed with municipal bond funding and/or some other kind of patient capital and have the work paid on utility bills or property taxes. &nbsp;Combine Boulder Smart Grid City with mass retrofit initiatives starting up in places like Berkeley and Boulder, and you have the beginning of urban energy transformation. &nbsp;

<p>Patrick Mazza</p></p>
			]]></description>
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				<p><strong>Standards</strong></p><p>Have not been tracking the standards study ordered by the Energy Bill. &nbsp;There was an uproar recently over a provision someone inserted in the stimulus to limit smart grid money to Internet-based systems, which would lock out other standards like Zigbee. &nbsp;In general, we don't need standards to get moving, but should be getting at them as quickly as possible. &nbsp;GridWise Architecture Council is the group tasked with this.</p><p>
On the D grid I would start with Advanced Metering Infrastructure to really get a data flow and communications system going. &nbsp;With that I would start a demand response program, probably engaging larger customers first. &nbsp;I would also companion the effort with a energy efficiency/retrofit initiative backed with municipal bond funding and/or some other kind of patient capital and have the work paid on utility bills or property taxes. &nbsp;Combine Boulder Smart Grid City with mass retrofit initiatives starting up in places like Berkeley and Boulder, and you have the beginning of urban energy transformation. &nbsp;

<p>Patrick Mazza</p></p>
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            <title>Comment #7 by ce1907</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/A-storm-resistant-power-grid/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 09:41:49 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/A-storm-resistant-power-grid/7</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>why?</strong></p><p>why don't you need standards to get going?</p><p>
ready, fire, aim</p><p>
if you don't have the standards</p><p>


&nbsp;industry will not sign on to a hodge podge. &nbsp;plus, probably a bad idea</p><p>
&nbsp;you have the "security" issue, that will not be small</p><p>
&nbsp;maybe you are right. &nbsp;maybe my understanding is completely whacked. &nbsp;I don't know very much</p><p>


but I don't understand your point.</p><p>
WHAT can be done without standards</p><p>
what needs to wait until standards are in place?</p>
			]]></description>
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				<p><strong>why?</strong></p><p>why don't you need standards to get going?</p><p>
ready, fire, aim</p><p>
if you don't have the standards</p><p>


&nbsp;industry will not sign on to a hodge podge. &nbsp;plus, probably a bad idea</p><p>
&nbsp;you have the "security" issue, that will not be small</p><p>
&nbsp;maybe you are right. &nbsp;maybe my understanding is completely whacked. &nbsp;I don't know very much</p><p>


but I don't understand your point.</p><p>
WHAT can be done without standards</p><p>
what needs to wait until standards are in place?</p>
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            <title>Comment #8 by ce1907</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/A-storm-resistant-power-grid/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 10:09:55 -0800</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/A-storm-resistant-power-grid/8</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p><strong>for a random example<p><a href="http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/smart-grid-a-matter-of-standards-5655.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/smart-grid-a-matte ...<p>
if we do not plan ahead, we will stumble into a box canyon</p></a></p></strong></p>
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				<p><strong>for a random example<p><a href="http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/smart-grid-a-matter-of-standards-5655.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/smart-grid-a-matte ...<p>
if we do not plan ahead, we will stumble into a box canyon</p></a></p></strong></p>
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