<![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Magic exists: It’s called ‘cap-and-trade’]]> Grist Comment Feed en Comment #1 by Delay And Deny http://www.grist.org/article/A-magic-self-adjusting-carbon-tax/ Mon, 02 Feb 2009 10:18:41 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/A-magic-self-adjusting-carbon-tax/1 Wait, Wait, Don't Sequester That !!

Researchers Develop Method for Higher-Rate Solar Photocatalytic Conversion of CO2 and Water Vapor to Hydrocarbon Fuels

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2009/01/researchers-d-1.h ...

Researchers at Penn State have developed a method for the more efficient solar conversion of carbon dioxide and water vapor to methane and other hydrocarbons using nitrogen-doped titania nanotube arrays. The arrays feature a wall thickness low enough to facilitate effective carrier transfer to the adsorbing species, and are surface-loaded with nanodimensional islands of co-catalysts platinum (Pt) and/or copper (Cu).

You know you're not a liberal when...

]]> Wait, Wait, Don't Sequester That !!

Researchers Develop Method for Higher-Rate Solar Photocatalytic Conversion of CO2 and Water Vapor to Hydrocarbon Fuels

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2009/01/researchers-d-1.h ...

Researchers at Penn State have developed a method for the more efficient solar conversion of carbon dioxide and water vapor to methane and other hydrocarbons using nitrogen-doped titania nanotube arrays. The arrays feature a wall thickness low enough to facilitate effective carrier transfer to the adsorbing species, and are surface-loaded with nanodimensional islands of co-catalysts platinum (Pt) and/or copper (Cu).

You know you're not a liberal when...

]]> Comment #2 by Gar Lipow http://www.grist.org/article/A-magic-self-adjusting-carbon-tax/ Mon, 02 Feb 2009 11:26:00 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/A-magic-self-adjusting-carbon-tax/2 Downside

"..as long as the price is tethered to a firm cap, there's no environmental downside."

Sorry, but there is if the cap is going to get lower. Usually the point of a phased in cap-and-trade is not only to meet the current cap, to get the investments made needed to comply when the cap tightens. If the carbon price drops too much during bad times, when they improve the infrastructure won't be there. One way to avoid this is to take action to reduce volatility, such as a minimum price. Or you could have large enough scale public investment and efficiency standards to ensure that such investment does not depend upon price, so that either cap-and-trade or a carbon tax is reinforcement not the main driver of reductions. But that would be setting priorities and apparently setting priorities is now the equivalent of declaring holy war.

]]> Downside

"..as long as the price is tethered to a firm cap, there's no environmental downside."

Sorry, but there is if the cap is going to get lower. Usually the point of a phased in cap-and-trade is not only to meet the current cap, to get the investments made needed to comply when the cap tightens. If the carbon price drops too much during bad times, when they improve the infrastructure won't be there. One way to avoid this is to take action to reduce volatility, such as a minimum price. Or you could have large enough scale public investment and efficiency standards to ensure that such investment does not depend upon price, so that either cap-and-trade or a carbon tax is reinforcement not the main driver of reductions. But that would be setting priorities and apparently setting priorities is now the equivalent of declaring holy war.

]]> Comment #3 by Pangolin http://www.grist.org/article/A-magic-self-adjusting-carbon-tax/ Mon, 02 Feb 2009 11:50:46 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/A-magic-self-adjusting-carbon-tax/3 We're letting the market decide

The market in congressional campaign contributions that is. Congresscritters appear to be all working on the theory that they and their children will be wealthy enough to purchase a pass on the consequences of global warming.

The magical self-adjusting carbon tax coming home as droughts, floods and hurricanes seems to be ramping up with a vengence. Too bad that wasn't what the OP was about.

Put the Carbon Back

]]> We're letting the market decide

The market in congressional campaign contributions that is. Congresscritters appear to be all working on the theory that they and their children will be wealthy enough to purchase a pass on the consequences of global warming.

The magical self-adjusting carbon tax coming home as droughts, floods and hurricanes seems to be ramping up with a vengence. Too bad that wasn't what the OP was about.

Put the Carbon Back

]]> Comment #4 by hapa http://www.grist.org/article/A-magic-self-adjusting-carbon-tax/ Mon, 02 Feb 2009 11:56:15 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/A-magic-self-adjusting-carbon-tax/4 economic meltdown proves markets work!

next up: why supply-side regulation of finance was america's best choice to bring gas prices down.

]]> economic meltdown proves markets work!

next up: why supply-side regulation of finance was america's best choice to bring gas prices down.

]]> Comment #5 by hapa http://www.grist.org/article/A-magic-self-adjusting-carbon-tax/ Mon, 02 Feb 2009 12:02:07 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/A-magic-self-adjusting-carbon-tax/5 but please remember

"markets are efficient; taxes cost jobs"

if you find yourself with more free time than usual in the coming few years, repeating this to yourself can help while away any surplus of leisure

]]> but please remember

"markets are efficient; taxes cost jobs"

if you find yourself with more free time than usual in the coming few years, repeating this to yourself can help while away any surplus of leisure

]]> Comment #6 by amazingdrx http://www.grist.org/article/A-magic-self-adjusting-carbon-tax/ Mon, 02 Feb 2009 13:35:20 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/A-magic-self-adjusting-carbon-tax/6 Breathing your money

"Conversely, when the economy goes south, the carbon tax will persist at $20, even though emissions may be dropping fast on their own -- and companies may need some breathing room."

Oh they're getting it alright, with CnT in the EU, and the hedge funds are helping out.  Yippee, burn 'em (fossil fuels) if you got 'em.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/jan/27/industry-a ...


Britain's biggest polluting companies are abusing a European emissions trading scheme (ETS) designed to tackle global warming by cashing in their carbon credits in order to bolster ailing balance sheets.

The sell-off has helped trigger a collapse in the price of carbon, making it cheaper to burn high-carbon fossil fuels and leading to a fall in the number of clean energy projects. The moves were seized on by environmentalists and other critics who have previously criticised the European Union's ETS for delivering more windfall profits for business than climate change.

"This [ETS] was not designed as a scheme to give corporates cheap short-term funding options in the face of a credit crunch meltdown where banks are not lending, but that appears to be what's happening," said Mark Lewis, a carbon analyst at Deutsche Bank.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin



]]> Breathing your money

"Conversely, when the economy goes south, the carbon tax will persist at $20, even though emissions may be dropping fast on their own -- and companies may need some breathing room."

Oh they're getting it alright, with CnT in the EU, and the hedge funds are helping out.  Yippee, burn 'em (fossil fuels) if you got 'em.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/jan/27/industry-a ...


Britain's biggest polluting companies are abusing a European emissions trading scheme (ETS) designed to tackle global warming by cashing in their carbon credits in order to bolster ailing balance sheets.

The sell-off has helped trigger a collapse in the price of carbon, making it cheaper to burn high-carbon fossil fuels and leading to a fall in the number of clean energy projects. The moves were seized on by environmentalists and other critics who have previously criticised the European Union's ETS for delivering more windfall profits for business than climate change.

"This [ETS] was not designed as a scheme to give corporates cheap short-term funding options in the face of a credit crunch meltdown where banks are not lending, but that appears to be what's happening," said Mark Lewis, a carbon analyst at Deutsche Bank.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin



]]> Comment #7 by Pathos http://www.grist.org/article/A-magic-self-adjusting-carbon-tax/ Mon, 02 Feb 2009 16:46:30 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/A-magic-self-adjusting-carbon-tax/7 How's it going, people?

I'm afraid I don't have a firm opinion on the "cap-and-trade vs. carbon tax" debate; I just wanted to point out that the phrase "A magic self-adjusting carbon tax" is flawless iambic pentameter.

Well done, Eric!

]]> How's it going, people?

I'm afraid I don't have a firm opinion on the "cap-and-trade vs. carbon tax" debate; I just wanted to point out that the phrase "A magic self-adjusting carbon tax" is flawless iambic pentameter.

Well done, Eric!

]]> Comment #8 by amazingdrx http://www.grist.org/article/A-magic-self-adjusting-carbon-tax/ Mon, 02 Feb 2009 17:05:24 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/A-magic-self-adjusting-carbon-tax/8 Hehey

Good point Pathos.  How do you feel about hedge fund lead market efficiency?  How is it working?

For those with golden parachutes it rules!

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin

]]> Hehey

Good point Pathos.  How do you feel about hedge fund lead market efficiency?  How is it working?

For those with golden parachutes it rules!

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin

]]> Comment #9 by amazingdrx http://www.grist.org/article/A-magic-self-adjusting-carbon-tax/ Mon, 02 Feb 2009 17:11:34 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/A-magic-self-adjusting-carbon-tax/9 Oh BTW Path

I figured out the perfect anonymous Valentines gift for the woman who has everything except an actual sex life, a vibrator.   Very thoughtful.  And very popular evidently, if teevee ads are any measure.

Plus it's a great way to secretly say I told you so to old flames.  And have the very last word.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin

]]> Oh BTW Path

I figured out the perfect anonymous Valentines gift for the woman who has everything except an actual sex life, a vibrator.   Very thoughtful.  And very popular evidently, if teevee ads are any measure.

Plus it's a great way to secretly say I told you so to old flames.  And have the very last word.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin

]]> Comment #10 by Pangolin http://www.grist.org/article/A-magic-self-adjusting-carbon-tax/ Mon, 02 Feb 2009 17:23:29 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/A-magic-self-adjusting-carbon-tax/10 Reality Dr. X?

How do you think you are going to advance the tone of the debate by bringing that up? Where are your economic projections and computer models?

This is why the economy has crashed. Too much reality intruding on economic forecasts.

Put the Carbon Back

]]> Reality Dr. X?

How do you think you are going to advance the tone of the debate by bringing that up? Where are your economic projections and computer models?

This is why the economy has crashed. Too much reality intruding on economic forecasts.

Put the Carbon Back

]]> Comment #11 by Russ http://www.grist.org/article/A-magic-self-adjusting-carbon-tax/ Mon, 02 Feb 2009 18:02:41 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/A-magic-self-adjusting-carbon-tax/11 drx

Hedge fund lead market efficiency

isn't actually iambic pentameter.

(And "efficiency" is just an ugly, ugly, unpoetic word. The syllables are spineless.)

But this:

For those with golden parachutes it rules!

is superb. :)

]]> drx

Hedge fund lead market efficiency

isn't actually iambic pentameter.

(And "efficiency" is just an ugly, ugly, unpoetic word. The syllables are spineless.)

But this:

For those with golden parachutes it rules!

is superb. :)

]]> Comment #12 by Pathos http://www.grist.org/article/A-magic-self-adjusting-carbon-tax/ Mon, 02 Feb 2009 23:21:10 -0800 http://www.grist.org/article/A-magic-self-adjusting-carbon-tax/12 Yes, it is.

But to answer your question, Dr. X... Honestly, I wasn't very impressed with the whole thing. Seriously, I kept my money hidden under that hedge for almost a month, and as far as I can tell, the only change was when two 20's got stolen by a mouse and shredded for nest bedding.

Besides, dude. Trust me, these days, there's about a 90% chance that any woman you'd consider a candidate for that gift, already owns a vibrator. In fact, you might as well face it... Your old flame probably had one sitting in her beside drawer the entire time you were dating--and she may have even treated herself to an upgrade as a pick-me-up after the break-up.

We might as well accept it... Procedures like "washing that man right out of one's hair" went out with World War II and the Jitterbug. These days, the whole recuperation process is a little less, um, wholesome.

]]> Yes, it is.

But to answer your question, Dr. X... Honestly, I wasn't very impressed with the whole thing. Seriously, I kept my money hidden under that hedge for almost a month, and as far as I can tell, the only change was when two 20's got stolen by a mouse and shredded for nest bedding.

Besides, dude. Trust me, these days, there's about a 90% chance that any woman you'd consider a candidate for that gift, already owns a vibrator. In fact, you might as well face it... Your old flame probably had one sitting in her beside drawer the entire time you were dating--and she may have even treated herself to an upgrade as a pick-me-up after the break-up.

We might as well accept it... Procedures like "washing that man right out of one's hair" went out with World War II and the Jitterbug. These days, the whole recuperation process is a little less, um, wholesome.

]]>