A look into the ownership of that network and their political affiliations is revealing. And they want to allow further conglomeration of media- all forms- TV, radio, internet.

The really scary part is that this is a prime time show, popular with a majority of the American audience. Excuse me, but doesn't the religion so popular with the right wing say to 'turn the other cheek', and 'love your enemy''? How many times have I heard people say "the only thing 'those people' understand is violence", as if that justified our use of violence (at least against 'those people'). I'm afraid this goes way, way back- GWB and company seem to be trying to revive the Holy War. Maybe it's not about the oil, after all. In a race between global warming and a global religious war, global warming is the tortoise.

a liberal in redsville

The remarkable thing is that Keifer Sutherland's grandfather was the founder of Canada's New Democratic Party, who was recently voted our Greatest Canadian ever, and his mother cannot watch the show without retching.

What's all this with Keefer Sutherland being so "hard working".  I mean he his and all...but does he have to show it so much?   He's always sweating and grunting and straining through every scene.

BTW -- Kevin Bacon should sue for identity theft...that spiky hair...sort of a Baconism, I'd say.

The Texeme Construct offers international text memetics construction and textcasting services.

I agree with jabailo. I'd much rather see Kevin Bacon sweating and grunting and straining.

Your all a bunch of dick smokers aren't you

In class last week a British woman asked me if I'd watched the show 24. I told her no, but I'd heard of it. She then went on to tell me how much she loved it, was hooked on the DVDs, etc. I told her I'd heard it was Dick Cheney's favorite show. "Who?" she asked, and I said VP Dick Cheney, the VP of the U.S.

She shut up.

Well, LloydAlter, as Socrates suspected, you cannot teach virtue to your children.  And a fortiori, your grandchildren are even weirder.

It is interesting, how families unexpectedly divide over politics.  Our Senator Chuck Hagel, Republican of Nebraska, an admirable man, a Vietnam veteran, perhaps seeking the GOP nomination as candidate for president, is a strong conservative on most issues.  But his brother, who served with him in Vietnam in the same unit, has ended up a Democrat.  So, there is no way to predict these things.

To say nothing of my father, the life-long Republican loyalist.  Why, not even David Brooks and Kate O'Beirne have said such stupid things in defense of W., as has he.

On "24": I have never seen it, and have no desire to see it.  If it has something to do with law enforcement, then I am not surprised by anything any of you has written in this thread.

My suspicion is that TV shows with violent subjects have tended to instill values favorable to Republican politics.  That is, the enforcers of the law, and the prosecutors, are the sympathetic characters; and when they inflict violence, it is so that justice may prevail.  They operate in a world that is full of dangerous outlaw violence which needs to be crushed.

Opinion polls have shown that people who watch primetime TV regularly tend to agree to such statements as, "Life in the US is dangerous on account of crime," significantly more than people who do not watch.

Hence, it was easy for Karl Rove and his operatives to bring out lots of voters for their candidates, in 2002 and 2004, after campaigning with the twin messages, "there are dangerous outlaws out there," and "the Republicans are the enforcers of the law, and they will protect us."

Notice how the old pop-culture term, from ancient 20th-century movies and TV, for people, shooting at the hero, who deserve to be shot back at and killed, "bad guys," an ethically stupid and one-dimensional expression, has regularly been applied to anyone who shoots at the US occupation force in Iraq.

With not much background, I wonder if certain liberal values are being undermined.  Not long ago, on a visit with my parents, the TV was left on in the late evening, and I saw two disgusting shows back-to-back.

In the first, a "CSI" thing set in New York, the heroic young detective mercilessly tortured an innocent man in the course of interrogating him; his career ought to have been ruined; but the emphasis was on saving his career, and on redeeming him, because of course he is the hero, he is the one we love, he is the one who counts.  

Next, an "FBI" set in LA, having to do with illegal immigrants, a Catholic priest who shelters immigrants and does not ask about their status, refuses to speak to the feds about a suspect of theirs, and ends up being hauled away in handcuffs.

I may be paranoid, but it strikes me that with enough brainwashing of that sort, of course I am going to vote Republican.

Not for nothing is Rudy Giuliani a leading contender for the GOP presidential nomination.  A ruthless former prosecutor, he remains a deeply controversial figure here in NYC, in spite of his post-9/11 conduct.

On TV dramas about lawyers: It seems that prosecutors have been treated more and more sympathetically, since the days of "Perry Mason"; and it seems that defense attorneys have to deal with a lot of ethical complications.  Gone are the days when the story is about how the valiant, hard-working advocate for the defense, Perry Mason, say, or Ben Matlock, exculpates the wrongly accused defendant.  Now, the defense attorneys have to face themselves in the mirror, and ask how they can morally present a defense in court for clients whom they know to be very nasty criminals.

That TV primetime climate is ideal, for supporters of the ilk of John Ashcroft and Alberto Gonzalez, and of Guantanamo, and of severe interrogation methods amounting to torture, and of warrantless surveillance.

But maybe I am just being paranoid.

Chickens are our cousins! So are other sensitive animals! Enough is enough! No more factory farms!

I am old enough to remember a tv show called Murphy Brown.  When Murphy Brown had a child without being married many traditionalists complained, chief among them the then vice prez of the US.  He was told as were other traditionalists that they should all lighten up since "it was only a tv show."  How ironic that when a show comes on that is somewhat politically incorrect the argument that it is only tv doesn't wash.

Dear Frump,

I have not seen "traditionalist" used before quite as you use it, apparently as a synonym for "social conservative."

But if that works, I understand you well enough.

I am not sure you interpret correctly the response to Dan Quayle after his attack on poor Murphy Brown in the maternity ward.  It was not, "Lighten up, this is only a TV show," as though it were a piece of fantastic fluff with no connexion to reality.  On the contrary, the basic sentiment of the responders was, "Look, this is VERY real, it happens all the time, and it is not a problem, and jerks such as you are not welcome in her hospital room."

It is an interesting socio-aesthetico-political question, Frump, and I am grateful to you for helping to elaborate it: Do law-and-order TV shows create a mindset among viewers which favors voting for Republican candidates?; and by contrast, do sit-coms, in which sexual innuendo is frequent and sexual permissiveness is not a big moral problem, create a mindset among viewers which favors voting for Democratic candidates?

I think the connexion in the former case is more solid than in the latter case.  In fact, the insistence that the government not involve itself judgmentally in sexual activity is a very important part of libertarian politics, and has a strong following among Old Original Republicans, pre-Reagan, pre-Rove.  Perhaps Sandra Day O'Connor would be a good example of that kind of Republican.

Chickens are our cousins! So are other sensitive animals! Enough is enough! No more factory farms!

Thanks for the great takedown of "24," surely the most idiotic and self-important show on TV.  Like you, I never could figure out how such a ridiculous rightwing fantasy, driven by laughably absurd story lines, ever became the critical and popular hit that it is.

I cannot describe how vast my contempt is for this stupid, pompous show. What's frightening is the influence it has over the people who actuallly run and defend our country. As the New Yorker story pointed out, it enjoys a cult  following among Republican politicians and pundits, as well as members of the military. As a consequence, the show has mainstreamed torture, making it not only acceptable, but even celebrating it as a key weapon the United States must rely on to defend itself.

Utterly sickening, especiallly since "24" has set up a vicious feedback loop in the real world that only grows worse with time: Cheney & Co. authorize torture and illegal kidnappings, which inspires story lines on "24," whose support for torture and illegal kidnappings gives the green light to Cheney & Co. to indulge it even more. Meanwhile, the public's outrage remains muted because, after all, it's "just" a TV show. Right, and crystal meth is just another way to lose weight.

One thing I'd like to point out is that Jack Bauer is simply Dirty Harry updated for the post 9/11 era.  In the 1970s, the enemy wasn't Islamic terrorism but street thugs whose crimes were abetted, if not encouraged, by bleeding heart judges, defense lawyers and lawmakers.  A spate of movies appeared during the 1970s and early 1980s that celebrated vigilantes like Harry who cared more about keeping the streets safe than protecting criminals' civil liberties.

Like Bauer, Harry beat and tortured and abused people's civil  rights  without compunction because he knew he was on a mission for justice, for law and order. To hell with the Constitution.

Same goes for Jack Bauer, but with the difference that Jack knows the fate of the world is resting on his shoulders --- which means he can pretty much do as he pleases.  Sound like
any President you know?

MikeF

liberal twit

I don't fear terrorsist or terrorism. I fear this:

a show glorifying torture is "...somewhat politically incorrect"

Perhaps we are no different than our enemies.

Is PPD the next epidemic? Could psychological disorders, spread via prime time TV and paranoid leadership, be our undoing?

a liberal in redsville

While we go twittering away ...  Well done, MikeF!

The paternity of Mary Cheney's child, and the circumstances of her pregnancy, are a much more closely guarded Republican secret than even the whereabouts of Dick Cheney's "undisclosed location."  The VP nearly leaped across the table to throttle the meek and mild Wolf Blitzer, not long ago, when poor Wolf asked a very delicately probing question.

I imagine this sort of scenario, in a few years, on "Antiques Roadshow":

Guest with Object, i.e. a turkey baster: Well, I happened to be passing by Mary Cheney's house, and she was having a garage sale, so I stopped to have a look around.

Antiques Roadshow Appraiser: Well, when we saw you walk into the Roadshow this afternoon, carrying this turkey baster, we were speechless with delight.  Do you remember what you paid for it?

GwO: Well, she was originally asking two dollars, but she was real sweet, you know, real down to earth, and I got her to come down to fifty cents.

ARA: Fifty cents!  Well, in my auction house, this turkey baster, even with all its condition issues, would likely bring ten thousand dollars.

GwO: Wow!  Oh my!  Who would have thought!  Well, I guess I am going to stop bringing it out at Thanksgiving!

ARA: And if you had reliable documentation identifying the man whose semen Ms. Cheney used, you could easily get ten times as much.

GwO: Wow!  I had no idea!  I'm going to have it framed!  There's a space over the dishwasher where I can hang it!  That pink color of the squeeze part goes real good with the wallpaper ...

Chickens are our cousins! So are other sensitive animals! Enough is enough! No more factory farms!

The show is far too liberal for me.A real right-winger bemoans the loss of our railroads because now we don't have enough box cars in which to place the Muslims.

I've been watching this show for a couple of years now.  In my view it's got to get back to the storytelling or I'll let it go.  
One thing: as a counterpoint to Jacks' unorthodox methods they present (in the current season, anyway) the fictional President of the United States to be the height of accomodation and acceptance for America's Arab citizens.  He also opens a dialogue with the terrorist who's renounced his past life (perhaps something Bush should've tried in Iraq).  There are some good values present here.

"The truth is rarely pure and never simple. Oscar Wilde

To anyone who has railed against 24 for being "terrible," "pompous" and "stupid," - get your head out of your ass.  IT'S A FUCKING TV SHOW!!!  For Christ's sake, if you have actually seen the show, then you know that the show has a certain sense of, how should I say it, 'hightened realism.'  For those of you who don't know what that is, let me tell you.  IT MEANS IT'S A FUCKING TV SHOW, and it has no basis in reality.  Let's remember the entire purpose of filmed entertainment (be it TV or cinema) - to ENTERTAIN; it's also referred to as 'escapism.'  24 is just the same.  Any intelligent viewer can tell the difference between the 24 reality and actual reality.  So don't give me that shit calling it propaganda for the right-wing fear mongers.  As I said, get your heads out of your asses.  I swear, the next thing I know some fucktard is going to be bashing The Sopranos, for glorifying violence as well as mistreatment of women.  But that show's defenders will tell you the same thing - IT'S A FUCKING TV SHOW, and in no way is the show promoting the things you rail against.  Like 24, it uses these story elements to create conflict and thus, drama.  Anyway, once again - get your heads out of your asses and remember, IT'S A FUCKING TV SHOW!!! Idiots.

"IT'S A FUCKING TV SHOW!!! Idiots"

So is this administration.  Disney was brought in to make the homeland security facility look just like the set on "24".

Remember the "Mission Acomplished" teevee show, that duuhbya the shaved ape appeared in?

TV shows like this administration is directing can be very, very dangerous.  Ask a cabdriver kidnapped for a bounty (payed by this administration)in the ME and tortured in gitmo.  Or the Canadian kidnapped by this administration and rendered to Syria where he survived 9 months of torture.  He is now suing US for that incident.

Maybe you would like a few of your heroes, like rummi, perle,wolfi, and feith to star in a teevee show?  Wouldn't it be nice to see if accurate information on the missing 100s of billions of taxpayer dollars dissappeared into the gaping maw of iraq-catastrophe could be obtained with some waterboarding?  

But that would be wrong wouldn't it?  Hehehey.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

Are we running out of things to talk about?

I normally don't criticize people for grammar, but your post doesn't even make sense.  It would do you well to brush up on your grammar, spelling, capitalization, sentence structure, and overall thought processes.

"I normally don't criticize people..."

Thanks so much for breaking your normal pattern and helping out with constructive criticism.

This is known informally as "ad spellinum".  If you can't address the point another person is making, critique their "grammar, spelling, capitalization, (and)sentence structure".

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog

We know "24" is a TV show. We got it.

But it's way more than "just" a TV show because of its loyal following among policy makers and the military. That's the point of my post earlier. The show doesn't tell you what to think, but what to think about.

And it is having a real world impact, as was demonstrated by the visit the West Point dean and the FBI interrogators made to the show's set last year to urge its creators to rethink how they depict torture. Too many West Point cadets were basing their attitudes toward the acceptability of torture on the actions of fictional characters such as superhero Jack Bauer, according to a recent New Yorker story.

No doubt about it, "24" is a fantasy. But fantasies can be dangerous things if they are latched on to by the wrong people who have power over other people's lives.

History is littered with the results of such deadly fantasies. The Crusades. The Third Reich. And, alas, the U.S. invasion of Iraq, which was fueled by the neo-cons' nutty ideas of securing the peace for Israel by turning Iraq into a pro-Western democracy.

By the way, despite what you may have learned about debate and rhetoric at the Oxford Union, the use of the F-word in the upper case starts to lose its effectiveness by its third repetition. Hope this helps.

You fail to explain that although this show is brutal, it is more realistic to a life scenario than the oh perfect Superman coming in to save you. Superman would not save your town if a nuclear warhead was coming after it. As in Season 4, the military would. Correct me if I'm wrong. I see the point your trying to make, it's just not working. A smart person would not base their life on the 24 series. Actually I've decided to follow and try to serve my country because of this tv show. Anyone who is basing their thoughts on this show is obviously not too brilliant. Also, nobody really cares how many times you can use the F-word before it becomes useless. Anyways, what if there was a person who knew something that would kill millions of people in about an hour. While this situation may be unlikely, what would you do? Hmm? I assure you that you would not give him something to eat and drink and then ask him nicely. No, you would get the information out of him as quickly as possible. At any means necessary. If you're going to argue about children watching this show, that's for the parents to decide. You say that Jack is fighting for a "weak and scared nation." I disagree. I think they have portrayed the what the nation would do in 24 hours if all of the same things went down. Bauer is a patriot in the show and is willing to do anything at any cost for the greater good. THAT is what I see. His heroism doesn't stem from his brutality. His heroism stems from the fact that he's willing to fight for the country, no matter what. With all due respect, I think you just don't like the show and therefore are putting it into the ground. You'll get no support from me.