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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Reactions to passage of the House climate and energy bill]]></title>
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            <title>Comment #1 by ed abbey</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-26-reax-house-climate-bill-vote/</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 04:16:13 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-26-reax-house-climate-bill-vote/1</guid>
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				<p>O look!&nbsp; Reactions from Big Green and enabling politicos! How....um.....enlightening?&nbsp; I wonder what actual activists think about this "historic vote"?</p>
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				<p>O look!&nbsp; Reactions from Big Green and enabling politicos! How....um.....enlightening?&nbsp; I wonder what actual activists think about this "historic vote"?</p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by randino</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-26-reax-house-climate-bill-vote/</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 04:42:53 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-26-reax-house-climate-bill-vote/2</guid>
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				<p>This legislation was not written or approved in our play pen.&nbsp; Environmental activists&nbsp;did not make up the members of the House of Representatives.&nbsp; That even this monument to mediocrity was passed is remarkable.&nbsp; If it passes that cess pool of reaction known as the US Senate, with&nbsp;even two&nbsp;worthwhile provisions we should be prostrate&nbsp;in wonder and adulation.&nbsp; &nbsp;</p><p>Our problem is institutional.&nbsp; Our institutions were designed to exploit people and resources, and protect the exploiters and despoilers.&nbsp; What we have just seen is our institutions dispensing with their duties exactly as that bunch of slaver owners, indian hunters, and real estate speculators who founded this country intended.&nbsp;</p><p>Put down your nature manual, crack open some history books and learn about what we are really facing.&nbsp; Then you will realize it could've been far worse, and will probably be so&nbsp;after the aristocrats in the Senate get through messing with it.&nbsp; The mighty do as they will.&nbsp; The weak do as they must.&nbsp; Guess which camp we are in?&nbsp; And that is what we must correct.</p><p>Randy Cunningham&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; An actual activist</p>
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				<p>This legislation was not written or approved in our play pen.&nbsp; Environmental activists&nbsp;did not make up the members of the House of Representatives.&nbsp; That even this monument to mediocrity was passed is remarkable.&nbsp; If it passes that cess pool of reaction known as the US Senate, with&nbsp;even two&nbsp;worthwhile provisions we should be prostrate&nbsp;in wonder and adulation.&nbsp; &nbsp;</p><p>Our problem is institutional.&nbsp; Our institutions were designed to exploit people and resources, and protect the exploiters and despoilers.&nbsp; What we have just seen is our institutions dispensing with their duties exactly as that bunch of slaver owners, indian hunters, and real estate speculators who founded this country intended.&nbsp;</p><p>Put down your nature manual, crack open some history books and learn about what we are really facing.&nbsp; Then you will realize it could've been far worse, and will probably be so&nbsp;after the aristocrats in the Senate get through messing with it.&nbsp; The mighty do as they will.&nbsp; The weak do as they must.&nbsp; Guess which camp we are in?&nbsp; And that is what we must correct.</p><p>Randy Cunningham&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; An actual activist</p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by veritone</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-26-reax-house-climate-bill-vote/</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 07:51:01 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-26-reax-house-climate-bill-vote/3</guid>
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				<p>I agree with everything Randino said. I'm an actual activist who fought tooth and nail to ensure that it got passed. That it was done so with only one vote over the bare minimum is testimoney to everything Randino observed above. If W-M hadn't passed yesterday, we would probably get nothing for at least two years or more. This is something we can build upon. The best scientific minds who have no reason to lie to you or I say we have between 96 and 120 months (!) to make major changes. Imagine squandering 24 of those precious months.</p><p>Time to roll up your sleeves, Ed, and set you studied and naieve cynicism aside. We have only a few months to build a grass roots movement capable of overcoming the aristocratic inertia we're likely to encounter in the Senate. Or if you prefer sitting on the sidelines being snooty and maligning what you call "Big Green," imagine the conversation you're likely to have with our descendants when they ask you what you did to solve the problem. I have no difficulty imagining that conversation myself, nor, do I suspect will Randino.</p>
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				<p>I agree with everything Randino said. I'm an actual activist who fought tooth and nail to ensure that it got passed. That it was done so with only one vote over the bare minimum is testimoney to everything Randino observed above. If W-M hadn't passed yesterday, we would probably get nothing for at least two years or more. This is something we can build upon. The best scientific minds who have no reason to lie to you or I say we have between 96 and 120 months (!) to make major changes. Imagine squandering 24 of those precious months.</p><p>Time to roll up your sleeves, Ed, and set you studied and naieve cynicism aside. We have only a few months to build a grass roots movement capable of overcoming the aristocratic inertia we're likely to encounter in the Senate. Or if you prefer sitting on the sidelines being snooty and maligning what you call "Big Green," imagine the conversation you're likely to have with our descendants when they ask you what you did to solve the problem. I have no difficulty imagining that conversation myself, nor, do I suspect will Randino.</p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by sukumar</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-26-reax-house-climate-bill-vote/</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 12:11:16 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-26-reax-house-climate-bill-vote/4</guid>
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				<p>I wish we could deal without crap like "puts the United States in a position of leadership in international climate negotiations" (Arnold Schwarzenegger). Leadership my foot! We are WAY behind the rest of the world. This bill just buys us back a seat at the table.</p><p>I agree with veritone: "we have between 96 and 120 months to make major changes." Yes, note: <strong>major</strong> changes. We'll be just as fried with the 4% emission cuts this bill calls for as with none at all.</p>
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				<p>I wish we could deal without crap like "puts the United States in a position of leadership in international climate negotiations" (Arnold Schwarzenegger). Leadership my foot! We are WAY behind the rest of the world. This bill just buys us back a seat at the table.</p><p>I agree with veritone: "we have between 96 and 120 months to make major changes." Yes, note: <strong>major</strong> changes. We'll be just as fried with the 4% emission cuts this bill calls for as with none at all.</p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by Bart Anderson</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-26-reax-house-climate-bill-vote/</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 15:02:05 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-26-reax-house-climate-bill-vote/5</guid>
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				<p>I'd like to see a wider sample of reactions to the bill. If Grist only posts reactions that it agrees with, we will all have lower IQs. Here are some other reactions:<p><br /><a href="http://kucinich.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=134813" rel="nofollow"><strong>Dennis KucinichI oppose H.R. 2454, the American Clean Energy and Security Act of 2009.&nbsp;
The reason is simple.&nbsp; It won&rsquo;t address the problem.&nbsp; In fact, it might
make the problem worse. <br /><br />&ldquo;It sets targets that are too weak, especially in the short term,
and sets about meeting those targets through Enron-style accounting
methods.&nbsp; It gives new life to one of the primary sources of the
problem that should be on its way out&ndash; coal &ndash; by giving it record
subsidies.&nbsp; And it is rounded out with massive corporate giveaways at
taxpayer expense.&nbsp; There is $60 billion for a single technology which
may or may not work, but which enables coal power plants to keep
warming the planet at least another 20 years.<p><a href="http://www.greenpeace.org.uk/blog/climate/greenpeace-meets…-bill-mckibben-20090626" rel="nofollow"><strong>Bill McKibben (Greenpeace interview)...&nbsp; You can't do what needs to be done with the current constellation of political forces. I was in the White House a month ago and the clear message was 'Make us do it.' Build us a movement that gives us the room to do the things that we want to do. Because they don't have it now.<p><a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/26/AR2009062603076.html" rel="nofollow"><strong>Climate Change Activists Dismayed by Some of Bill's Provisions (Washington Post)<br />many green groups seem to be supporting the bill -- now stuffed with
benefits for emitters such as utilities, manufacturers and farmers --
while holding their nose. "We're not saying, 'Kill the bill,' " said Frank O'Donnell, of the
group Clean Air Watch. "But we're saying it sure as heck ought to get
better in the Senate, or it's going to be a sorry day."<p>Bart / Energy Bulletin</p></br></strong></a></p></strong></a></p></br></br></strong></a></br></p></p>
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				<p>I'd like to see a wider sample of reactions to the bill. If Grist only posts reactions that it agrees with, we will all have lower IQs. Here are some other reactions:<p><br /><a href="http://kucinich.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=134813" rel="nofollow"><strong>Dennis KucinichI oppose H.R. 2454, the American Clean Energy and Security Act of 2009.&nbsp;
The reason is simple.&nbsp; It won&rsquo;t address the problem.&nbsp; In fact, it might
make the problem worse. <br /><br />&ldquo;It sets targets that are too weak, especially in the short term,
and sets about meeting those targets through Enron-style accounting
methods.&nbsp; It gives new life to one of the primary sources of the
problem that should be on its way out&ndash; coal &ndash; by giving it record
subsidies.&nbsp; And it is rounded out with massive corporate giveaways at
taxpayer expense.&nbsp; There is $60 billion for a single technology which
may or may not work, but which enables coal power plants to keep
warming the planet at least another 20 years.<p><a href="http://www.greenpeace.org.uk/blog/climate/greenpeace-meets…-bill-mckibben-20090626" rel="nofollow"><strong>Bill McKibben (Greenpeace interview)...&nbsp; You can't do what needs to be done with the current constellation of political forces. I was in the White House a month ago and the clear message was 'Make us do it.' Build us a movement that gives us the room to do the things that we want to do. Because they don't have it now.<p><a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/26/AR2009062603076.html" rel="nofollow"><strong>Climate Change Activists Dismayed by Some of Bill's Provisions (Washington Post)<br />many green groups seem to be supporting the bill -- now stuffed with
benefits for emitters such as utilities, manufacturers and farmers --
while holding their nose. "We're not saying, 'Kill the bill,' " said Frank O'Donnell, of the
group Clean Air Watch. "But we're saying it sure as heck ought to get
better in the Senate, or it's going to be a sorry day."<p>Bart / Energy Bulletin</p></br></strong></a></p></strong></a></p></br></br></strong></a></br></p></p>
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            <title>Comment #6 by ed abbey</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-26-reax-house-climate-bill-vote/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 05:16:02 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-26-reax-house-climate-bill-vote/6</guid>
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				<p>The naivete appears to be all your, Veritone. You seem to be of the opinion that there exists no "Big Green" ready to cut ANY deal with the corporados destroying the planet just so they can declare any semblance of "victory". Get real!&nbsp; Your allies in government and their corporate sponsers are playing you. Your incremental baby steps won't help the babies one bit.</p>
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				<p>The naivete appears to be all your, Veritone. You seem to be of the opinion that there exists no "Big Green" ready to cut ANY deal with the corporados destroying the planet just so they can declare any semblance of "victory". Get real!&nbsp; Your allies in government and their corporate sponsers are playing you. Your incremental baby steps won't help the babies one bit.</p>
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            <title>Comment #7 by Dave from Canada</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-26-reax-house-climate-bill-vote/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 09:01:23 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-26-reax-house-climate-bill-vote/7</guid>
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				<p>Let's be clear about one thing: this is a long, long road.&nbsp;</p><p>The ACES Act won't solve the whole problem of GHG emissions in America, let alone the problem of political institutions that favor the wealthy elite and make progress extremely difficult.</p><p>ACES is just a step down the road.</p><p>Some say that taking that step is traitorous, that the only place to step is the end of the road, and immediately.</p><p>Those people are delusional.&nbsp;</p><p>There is only one way to get down this road.&nbsp; Taking step, after step, after step.&nbsp;</p><p>We need to get started now.&nbsp; Pass the ACES bill into law.&nbsp; Improve it afterwards.&nbsp; And take further steps, quickly.</p>
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				<p>Let's be clear about one thing: this is a long, long road.&nbsp;</p><p>The ACES Act won't solve the whole problem of GHG emissions in America, let alone the problem of political institutions that favor the wealthy elite and make progress extremely difficult.</p><p>ACES is just a step down the road.</p><p>Some say that taking that step is traitorous, that the only place to step is the end of the road, and immediately.</p><p>Those people are delusional.&nbsp;</p><p>There is only one way to get down this road.&nbsp; Taking step, after step, after step.&nbsp;</p><p>We need to get started now.&nbsp; Pass the ACES bill into law.&nbsp; Improve it afterwards.&nbsp; And take further steps, quickly.</p>
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            <title>Comment #8 by sukumar</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-26-reax-house-climate-bill-vote/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 12:31:23 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-26-reax-house-climate-bill-vote/8</guid>
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				<p>Nobody is saying "that the only place to step is the end of the road." LISTEN to what others are saying instead of just repeating the same thing over and over again. Yes, "taking step, after step, after step" but <strong>in the right direction! Removing EPA's authority to regulate GHG emissions and subsidising coal is <strong>NOT the right direction - and this is what folks are arguing.<p>"If
we pass a bill that only creates the illusion of addressing the
problem, we walk away with only an illusion." (And that illusion destroys any chances of improving the bill in the future) "Not
only can we do better; we have no choice but to do better." (<strong><a href="http://kucinich.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=134813" rel="nofollow"><strong>Dennis Kucinich again)<strong></strong></strong></a></strong></p></strong></strong></p>
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				<p>Nobody is saying "that the only place to step is the end of the road." LISTEN to what others are saying instead of just repeating the same thing over and over again. Yes, "taking step, after step, after step" but <strong>in the right direction! Removing EPA's authority to regulate GHG emissions and subsidising coal is <strong>NOT the right direction - and this is what folks are arguing.<p>"If
we pass a bill that only creates the illusion of addressing the
problem, we walk away with only an illusion." (And that illusion destroys any chances of improving the bill in the future) "Not
only can we do better; we have no choice but to do better." (<strong><a href="http://kucinich.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=134813" rel="nofollow"><strong>Dennis Kucinich again)<strong></strong></strong></a></strong></p></strong></strong></p>
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