<![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for House passes landmark climate and clean-energy bill]]> Grist Comment Feed en Comment #1 by davescott http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-26-climate-bill-senate-politics/ Fri, 26 Jun 2009 19:24:40 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-26-climate-bill-senate-politics/1 You write that "Senate Democrats’ last attempt to pass a climate bill failed by a large margin in June 2008..."

I agree that final Senate passage will be a challenge.  I'm not sure I'd make too much of last year's Senate vote though.  Anyone who thought that last year was a real vote -- with a much smaller environmental voting bloc in the Senate and Bush ready to veto anything that survived --was not dealing with reality.  For some Senate Dems in particular, there was little incentive to vote for a McCain-Lieberman bill that wasnt going to be law in any event.  This year's vote will happen in a very different context.  And it will be a real vote.

]]> You write that "Senate Democrats’ last attempt to pass a climate bill failed by a large margin in June 2008..."

I agree that final Senate passage will be a challenge.  I'm not sure I'd make too much of last year's Senate vote though.  Anyone who thought that last year was a real vote -- with a much smaller environmental voting bloc in the Senate and Bush ready to veto anything that survived --was not dealing with reality.  For some Senate Dems in particular, there was little incentive to vote for a McCain-Lieberman bill that wasnt going to be law in any event.  This year's vote will happen in a very different context.  And it will be a real vote.

]]> Comment #2 by ed abbey http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-26-climate-bill-senate-politics/ Sat, 27 Jun 2009 04:12:27 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-26-climate-bill-senate-politics/2 "Sweeping bill"!  O right, it swept REAL action on the climate crisis out the door and swept more corporate greenwashing into the livingroom.  Big Green and spineless Dems are sleep-walking in a world of half-measures.

Meanwhile, out in the real world, key players like James Hansen and actual activists are going to jail in order to sound the alarm that Washington half-measures only serve to lull us to sleep and fatten the corporate coffers (and Capitol Hill campaign finances, etc.). Sour grapes? Not really.  Just thought I'd mention: your hair is on fire.

]]> "Sweeping bill"!  O right, it swept REAL action on the climate crisis out the door and swept more corporate greenwashing into the livingroom.  Big Green and spineless Dems are sleep-walking in a world of half-measures.

Meanwhile, out in the real world, key players like James Hansen and actual activists are going to jail in order to sound the alarm that Washington half-measures only serve to lull us to sleep and fatten the corporate coffers (and Capitol Hill campaign finances, etc.). Sour grapes? Not really.  Just thought I'd mention: your hair is on fire.

]]> Comment #3 by bailsout http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-26-climate-bill-senate-politics/ Sat, 27 Jun 2009 09:30:43 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-26-climate-bill-senate-politics/3 Oops! You listed Carolyn McCarthy twice, once on the aye list and once on the nay list, but with different state and party affliliations. Knowing my rep and his typically republican biases it is he that should be in the nay column, Kevin McCarthy.

]]> Oops! You listed Carolyn McCarthy twice, once on the aye list and once on the nay list, but with different state and party affliliations. Knowing my rep and his typically republican biases it is he that should be in the nay column, Kevin McCarthy.

]]> Comment #4 by Russ Walker http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-26-climate-bill-senate-politics/ Sat, 27 Jun 2009 12:37:01 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-26-climate-bill-senate-politics/4 Good catch.  will fix

]]> Good catch.  will fix

]]> Comment #5 by nhammond http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-26-climate-bill-senate-politics/ Sun, 28 Jun 2009 12:56:20 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-26-climate-bill-senate-politics/5 Although I realize that Waxman-Markley has many enviros saying "Eek!" the correct expression is "eked out."

]]> Although I realize that Waxman-Markley has many enviros saying "Eek!" the correct expression is "eked out."

]]> Comment #6 by Russ Walker http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-26-climate-bill-senate-politics/ Sun, 28 Jun 2009 19:18:11 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-26-climate-bill-senate-politics/6 Bad editing at the end of a long day of climate bill action. Thanks for the catch. It's been updated.

]]> Bad editing at the end of a long day of climate bill action. Thanks for the catch. It's been updated.

]]> Comment #7 by Tyler Durden http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-26-climate-bill-senate-politics/ Sun, 28 Jun 2009 21:06:19 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-26-climate-bill-senate-politics/7 I think this bill will cause more harm than good.  For example, one of its evil provisions is that the Clean Air Act will no longer apply to CO2 except for mobile sources.  So, the EPA will lose its ability to regulate CO2 emissions from coal plants.  The Center for Biological Diversity has an excellent analysis of the bill, which everyone should read before going gaga over it.  This bill can still be amended to remove the bad aspects and add good ones, but the prospects of doing that in the Senate, which is almost always more conservative than the House, are pretty slim.

]]> I think this bill will cause more harm than good.  For example, one of its evil provisions is that the Clean Air Act will no longer apply to CO2 except for mobile sources.  So, the EPA will lose its ability to regulate CO2 emissions from coal plants.  The Center for Biological Diversity has an excellent analysis of the bill, which everyone should read before going gaga over it.  This bill can still be amended to remove the bad aspects and add good ones, but the prospects of doing that in the Senate, which is almost always more conservative than the House, are pretty slim.

]]> Comment #8 by randino http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-26-climate-bill-senate-politics/ Mon, 29 Jun 2009 04:44:27 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-26-climate-bill-senate-politics/8 I don't think anyone has stars in their eyes or is going gaga over this bill.  After all it is not our bill, it is Congress's bill - god help us.  But this is what is hard about being active on an issue.  You mull it over, read all the pros and cons, and then take a leap and hope like hell it is for the best.  I just don't want us to get into a bloodbath over this.  At the end of the day, both the pros and the cons will have a hell of a lot more in common with each other, than they ever will with the deniers and planet killers.  Let's remember that.  From my past life in the sectarian left, I saw way too much of that and do not want to see it over this.  Let's keep a cool head, and even though you think the other side has drunk the Kool Aid on this issue, realize that they are your brothers and sisters in struggle all the same. 

Don't worry. I am not going to urge us to join hands and sing Kumbaya.   

Randy Cunningham  

]]> I don't think anyone has stars in their eyes or is going gaga over this bill.  After all it is not our bill, it is Congress's bill - god help us.  But this is what is hard about being active on an issue.  You mull it over, read all the pros and cons, and then take a leap and hope like hell it is for the best.  I just don't want us to get into a bloodbath over this.  At the end of the day, both the pros and the cons will have a hell of a lot more in common with each other, than they ever will with the deniers and planet killers.  Let's remember that.  From my past life in the sectarian left, I saw way too much of that and do not want to see it over this.  Let's keep a cool head, and even though you think the other side has drunk the Kool Aid on this issue, realize that they are your brothers and sisters in struggle all the same. 

Don't worry. I am not going to urge us to join hands and sing Kumbaya.   

Randy Cunningham  

]]> Comment #9 by oracle2world http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-26-climate-bill-senate-politics/ Mon, 29 Jun 2009 06:28:39 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-26-climate-bill-senate-politics/9 I think this legislation has so many caveats and loopholes that it will be business as usual.  Taxes will go up, CO2 will continue to rise, temperature over the next ten years anyone's guess, and the poor take it in the shorts.

I love democracy!

]]> I think this legislation has so many caveats and loopholes that it will be business as usual.  Taxes will go up, CO2 will continue to rise, temperature over the next ten years anyone's guess, and the poor take it in the shorts.

I love democracy!

]]> Comment #10 by Tyler Durden http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-26-climate-bill-senate-politics/ Mon, 29 Jun 2009 21:09:21 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-26-climate-bill-senate-politics/10 There's a big difference between a weak bill and one that will do more harm than good.  I cannot support a bill that subsidizes coal plants or weakens the Clean Air Act.

I think you have a major misconception here: corporate Democrats are not our allies.  We might be able to join forces with them on some issues, but we are basically fundamentally opposed to each other's ideals.  I do not at all consider Obama or his corporate scum to be my brothers and sisters.  They are the enemy, albeit less of one than the Bush/Cheney things, er, I mean people.

]]> There's a big difference between a weak bill and one that will do more harm than good.  I cannot support a bill that subsidizes coal plants or weakens the Clean Air Act.

I think you have a major misconception here: corporate Democrats are not our allies.  We might be able to join forces with them on some issues, but we are basically fundamentally opposed to each other's ideals.  I do not at all consider Obama or his corporate scum to be my brothers and sisters.  They are the enemy, albeit less of one than the Bush/Cheney things, er, I mean people.

]]>