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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for How bad is the Peterson-Waxman deal on climate legislation?]]></title>
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            <title>Comment #1 by neosapiens</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-24-peterson-waxman-markey/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 13:21:27 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p>It just means that there will be another big fight another day.&nbsp; Ultimately, the truth will come out.&nbsp;</p>
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				<p>It just means that there will be another big fight another day.&nbsp; Ultimately, the truth will come out.&nbsp;</p>
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            <title>Comment #2 by Michael Wagner</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-24-peterson-waxman-markey/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 14:35:35 -0700</pubDate>
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            <title>Comment #3 by ecoplasm</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-24-peterson-waxman-markey/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 22:30:45 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-24-peterson-waxman-markey/3</guid>
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				<p>A bit unfair to say Waxman 'caved'.&nbsp; He's actually a masterful politician.&nbsp; Do you want climate change legislation or not?</p><p>Anyway, the House and the Senate already voted to authorize the USDA to develop&nbsp;a carbon offsets&nbsp;program, including a registry -- signed into law last year -- it's called the 2008 Farm Bill (Sec. 1245). Waxman only agreed to&nbsp;include this type of program in his cap-and-trade system as a mechanism to provide compliance offsets from agriculture and forestry. Lisa Jackson (EPA) already publicly ceded this&nbsp;part of the&nbsp;offsets program to the USDA last week (I think she's trying to keep her new job; wish her luck).</p><p>By the way, by design, an offsets program is not a regulatory program but an incentives program.&nbsp; To be sure, if it is to provide compliance offsets then there has to be a high bar for eligibility, quantification and issuance of credits, but the goal of offsets programs&nbsp;is to incentivize emission reductions in difficult to regulate sectors, not to regulate them.&nbsp; EPA, as a regulatory agency, may not be the best choice if we're honestly trying to reduce GHG emissions in these sectors as quickly and practically as possible, especially in ag, where&nbsp;it has almost no boots on the ground and barely speaks the language.&nbsp; EPA is better suited to regulate the large emitters.&nbsp; And despite the high hopes of some, the EPA is probably not the best vehicle for ruling the earth.</p><p>Hooray for climate legislation and Hooray for Waxman!&nbsp; It will only get better as we can all finally get to work on reducing global warming.</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
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				<p>A bit unfair to say Waxman 'caved'.&nbsp; He's actually a masterful politician.&nbsp; Do you want climate change legislation or not?</p><p>Anyway, the House and the Senate already voted to authorize the USDA to develop&nbsp;a carbon offsets&nbsp;program, including a registry -- signed into law last year -- it's called the 2008 Farm Bill (Sec. 1245). Waxman only agreed to&nbsp;include this type of program in his cap-and-trade system as a mechanism to provide compliance offsets from agriculture and forestry. Lisa Jackson (EPA) already publicly ceded this&nbsp;part of the&nbsp;offsets program to the USDA last week (I think she's trying to keep her new job; wish her luck).</p><p>By the way, by design, an offsets program is not a regulatory program but an incentives program.&nbsp; To be sure, if it is to provide compliance offsets then there has to be a high bar for eligibility, quantification and issuance of credits, but the goal of offsets programs&nbsp;is to incentivize emission reductions in difficult to regulate sectors, not to regulate them.&nbsp; EPA, as a regulatory agency, may not be the best choice if we're honestly trying to reduce GHG emissions in these sectors as quickly and practically as possible, especially in ag, where&nbsp;it has almost no boots on the ground and barely speaks the language.&nbsp; EPA is better suited to regulate the large emitters.&nbsp; And despite the high hopes of some, the EPA is probably not the best vehicle for ruling the earth.</p><p>Hooray for climate legislation and Hooray for Waxman!&nbsp; It will only get better as we can all finally get to work on reducing global warming.</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by Meredith Niles</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-24-peterson-waxman-markey/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 05:53:37 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p>Ecoplasm- agree with you that Waxman is a brilliant politician.&nbsp; We all know that he has had a difficult time trying to develop something comprehensive and still environmentally beneficial.&nbsp; I actually think the best system would be a dual relationship between EPA and USDA.&nbsp; For sure USDA has the excellent reputation with farmers, extension agents and other valuable assets to the farm community to be able to implement and follow an offsets program.&nbsp; But I think it would be ideal to have the EPA sitting at the table with USDA to help determine the life cycle analysis' necessary to figure out which types of offset programs would work.&nbsp; In my eyes, both agencies, as well as others with vested interests including Departments of Commerce, Labor, etc. should also have a seat at the table.&nbsp; We'll see how that develops...</p>
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				<p>Ecoplasm- agree with you that Waxman is a brilliant politician.&nbsp; We all know that he has had a difficult time trying to develop something comprehensive and still environmentally beneficial.&nbsp; I actually think the best system would be a dual relationship between EPA and USDA.&nbsp; For sure USDA has the excellent reputation with farmers, extension agents and other valuable assets to the farm community to be able to implement and follow an offsets program.&nbsp; But I think it would be ideal to have the EPA sitting at the table with USDA to help determine the life cycle analysis' necessary to figure out which types of offset programs would work.&nbsp; In my eyes, both agencies, as well as others with vested interests including Departments of Commerce, Labor, etc. should also have a seat at the table.&nbsp; We'll see how that develops...</p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by ecoplasm</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-24-peterson-waxman-markey/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 09:58:20 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p>Meridith, I hope so to.&nbsp; EPA's Climate Change office has a very good working relationship with folks at USDA, and relies on them heavily for national GHG inventory work and modeling in the ag and forestry sector.&nbsp; Many of the&nbsp;early offset program design concepts for Kyoto came out of this EPA group. However, given the long-simmering bad blood at other&nbsp;levels and especially with respective consitutuents,&nbsp;perhaps something&nbsp;akin to&nbsp;a Rwanda-style unity and&nbsp;reconciliation effort&nbsp;would be necessary for&nbsp;an ideal working relationship between these two agencies to be possible.</p><p>I'm not so sure about the maturity of EPA's life cycle analysis capabilities, however.&nbsp; A great hueristic tool, LCA, but EPA's recent oopsy in the ethanol debate was largely the result of&nbsp;a borrowed Berkeley approach and I've heard that even the EPA economists would be hard pressed to call it anything more than a work in progress. EPA's LCA Waste and Recycling Model (WARM) developed in what used to be called the Solid Waste Division has gotten nothing but rotten tomatoes from the Climate Change office, and is also literally a work in progress (again).&nbsp; In fact, the biggest cart-tip Lisa Jackson has experienced so far, in which she apparently lost a few political apples, was due to a political decision to rush ethanol LCA into the rulemaking process&nbsp;- probably well before it was ready.</p><p>I think there&nbsp;is already&nbsp;some good experience&nbsp;accumulated both nationally and internationally for applying LCA, when appropriate, to&nbsp;offset program leakage&nbsp;evaluations.&nbsp; Most of it, however, has been outside of the EPA (remember that in the 'dark days' until the Obama admin they lacked both funding and political will to spend much time on this - it's hard to get good at something you're not allowed to do).</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
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				<p>Meridith, I hope so to.&nbsp; EPA's Climate Change office has a very good working relationship with folks at USDA, and relies on them heavily for national GHG inventory work and modeling in the ag and forestry sector.&nbsp; Many of the&nbsp;early offset program design concepts for Kyoto came out of this EPA group. However, given the long-simmering bad blood at other&nbsp;levels and especially with respective consitutuents,&nbsp;perhaps something&nbsp;akin to&nbsp;a Rwanda-style unity and&nbsp;reconciliation effort&nbsp;would be necessary for&nbsp;an ideal working relationship between these two agencies to be possible.</p><p>I'm not so sure about the maturity of EPA's life cycle analysis capabilities, however.&nbsp; A great hueristic tool, LCA, but EPA's recent oopsy in the ethanol debate was largely the result of&nbsp;a borrowed Berkeley approach and I've heard that even the EPA economists would be hard pressed to call it anything more than a work in progress. EPA's LCA Waste and Recycling Model (WARM) developed in what used to be called the Solid Waste Division has gotten nothing but rotten tomatoes from the Climate Change office, and is also literally a work in progress (again).&nbsp; In fact, the biggest cart-tip Lisa Jackson has experienced so far, in which she apparently lost a few political apples, was due to a political decision to rush ethanol LCA into the rulemaking process&nbsp;- probably well before it was ready.</p><p>I think there&nbsp;is already&nbsp;some good experience&nbsp;accumulated both nationally and internationally for applying LCA, when appropriate, to&nbsp;offset program leakage&nbsp;evaluations.&nbsp; Most of it, however, has been outside of the EPA (remember that in the 'dark days' until the Obama admin they lacked both funding and political will to spend much time on this - it's hard to get good at something you're not allowed to do).</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
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            <title>Comment #6 by Michael Wagner</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-24-peterson-waxman-markey/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 16:22:28 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p>The Greenhouse Effect is mature science...--however the idea of offseting emissions is without merit...</p><p>Right--mankind is responsible for fantastic amounts of GHG emissions--somehow I don't see planting a tree as any kind of solution here... (when the tree dies it rots in the sun and releases much of the carbon back...)</p><p>A close examination here undoubtedly will uncover a money trail...!!!</p>
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				<p>The Greenhouse Effect is mature science...--however the idea of offseting emissions is without merit...</p><p>Right--mankind is responsible for fantastic amounts of GHG emissions--somehow I don't see planting a tree as any kind of solution here... (when the tree dies it rots in the sun and releases much of the carbon back...)</p><p>A close examination here undoubtedly will uncover a money trail...!!!</p>
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            <title>Comment #7 by Michael Wagner</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-24-peterson-waxman-markey/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 16:28:23 -0700</pubDate>
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