<![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Will health care eclipse climate in Congress this year?]]> Grist Comment Feed en Comment #1 by neosapiens http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-08-healthcare-eclipse-climate/ Tue, 09 Jun 2009 12:49:27 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-08-healthcare-eclipse-climate/1 It may be pragmatic to deal with health care when you can get the votes, but without dealing with climate, domestic energy production and jobs, you'll never get health care costs under control and you'll never be able to pay the huge up-front cost of health care reform. Health care is one very big cart. First, we need the horse, or the cart isn't going anywhere.

]]> It may be pragmatic to deal with health care when you can get the votes, but without dealing with climate, domestic energy production and jobs, you'll never get health care costs under control and you'll never be able to pay the huge up-front cost of health care reform. Health care is one very big cart. First, we need the horse, or the cart isn't going anywhere.

]]> Comment #2 by Dave from Canada http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-08-healthcare-eclipse-climate/ Tue, 09 Jun 2009 14:26:59 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-08-healthcare-eclipse-climate/2 How has the right implemented its policies in almost every developed country for the last 25 years?

By pushing hard, firing all guns at once.  By building wide coalitions of interests that help one another win on their issues.

Not by infighting about which policy is the biggest priority.

Conservatives understand that, politically, momentum is everything.  Push your agenda hard, push all the issues, overwhelm the opposition and the media with momentum, and get the vast majority of your policies through the first time. 

The ones that don't make it through the first time? Pick them up, dust them off, and push again - harder.

I'm an environmentalist.  But if health care has a better chance of making it first, then I say line up behind it, help push until its going fast, and then draft off of it.

 

 

]]> How has the right implemented its policies in almost every developed country for the last 25 years?

By pushing hard, firing all guns at once.  By building wide coalitions of interests that help one another win on their issues.

Not by infighting about which policy is the biggest priority.

Conservatives understand that, politically, momentum is everything.  Push your agenda hard, push all the issues, overwhelm the opposition and the media with momentum, and get the vast majority of your policies through the first time. 

The ones that don't make it through the first time? Pick them up, dust them off, and push again - harder.

I'm an environmentalist.  But if health care has a better chance of making it first, then I say line up behind it, help push until its going fast, and then draft off of it.

 

 

]]> Comment #3 by randino http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-08-healthcare-eclipse-climate/ Tue, 09 Jun 2009 15:20:49 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-08-healthcare-eclipse-climate/3 I think we need to step back and ask what is wrong with strategies that do not seem to be working.  I am not talking about just climate.  On issues from health care to Afghanistan, there is a thunderous silence in the progressive community.  The only thing we hear is the sound of clicking key pads as we e-mail, blog, text and twitter.  This is what activism has devolved to today, and I think it is one of the reasons we are blowing some really historic opportunities.  Technology is great, but it has been substituted for movement building, activism, and the irreplaceable connecting of person with person, face to face - not over a message board, but in the "real" world.  I frankly think the boasts of internet activism are fraudulent, and are failing to deliver the goods that old fashioned shoe leather used to bring.  We need to e-mail less, and raise hell more. 

Randy Cunningham

]]> I think we need to step back and ask what is wrong with strategies that do not seem to be working.  I am not talking about just climate.  On issues from health care to Afghanistan, there is a thunderous silence in the progressive community.  The only thing we hear is the sound of clicking key pads as we e-mail, blog, text and twitter.  This is what activism has devolved to today, and I think it is one of the reasons we are blowing some really historic opportunities.  Technology is great, but it has been substituted for movement building, activism, and the irreplaceable connecting of person with person, face to face - not over a message board, but in the "real" world.  I frankly think the boasts of internet activism are fraudulent, and are failing to deliver the goods that old fashioned shoe leather used to bring.  We need to e-mail less, and raise hell more. 

Randy Cunningham

]]> Comment #4 by tmullins http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-08-healthcare-eclipse-climate/ Tue, 09 Jun 2009 18:17:18 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-08-healthcare-eclipse-climate/4 In Appalachia, health care and environment are both in critical condition.  We are the change we voted for, DC has padded it's pockets and it's friends pockets at our expense.  http://www.wisecountyissues.com  It's time to push harder than ever and let our representatives know we want change !

]]> In Appalachia, health care and environment are both in critical condition.  We are the change we voted for, DC has padded it's pockets and it's friends pockets at our expense.  http://www.wisecountyissues.com  It's time to push harder than ever and let our representatives know we want change !

]]> Comment #5 by stock7 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-08-healthcare-eclipse-climate/ Tue, 09 Jun 2009 19:42:39 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-08-healthcare-eclipse-climate/5 Thanks for the concise update on how it goes on Capitol Hill.  I wonder what all activists can do to put climate in the forefront.  Of course health care needs mending after two decades, but climate is a precident to every other issue.

]]> Thanks for the concise update on how it goes on Capitol Hill.  I wonder what all activists can do to put climate in the forefront.  Of course health care needs mending after two decades, but climate is a precident to every other issue.

]]> Comment #6 by Des Emery http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-08-healthcare-eclipse-climate/ Tue, 09 Jun 2009 20:46:36 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-08-healthcare-eclipse-climate/6 Americans shell big bucks out of their pockets every month for private health insurance, or at least take note of the  deductions on their pay slips which provide for that insurance.  It is an immediate expense.

But climate change is a bogeyman under the bed.  An imaginary monster whose dimensions are pretty well unknown and who might or might not touch everyone at some perhaps time in the future.

Americans also see themselves as "realists" ready to deal with anything that's thrown their way.  Health care may be the benefit that individuals can feel is more pertinent to the here and now, while climate change will still be there tomorrow.

 

]]> Americans shell big bucks out of their pockets every month for private health insurance, or at least take note of the  deductions on their pay slips which provide for that insurance.  It is an immediate expense.

But climate change is a bogeyman under the bed.  An imaginary monster whose dimensions are pretty well unknown and who might or might not touch everyone at some perhaps time in the future.

Americans also see themselves as "realists" ready to deal with anything that's thrown their way.  Health care may be the benefit that individuals can feel is more pertinent to the here and now, while climate change will still be there tomorrow.

 

]]> Comment #7 by Tyler Durden http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-08-healthcare-eclipse-climate/ Wed, 10 Jun 2009 01:16:34 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-08-healthcare-eclipse-climate/7 There's no way a climate bill that would significantly help will ever pass, because it would require people to radically change their lifestyles, which they're not willing to do.  Maybe never is too strong; a bill might pass once global climate change is totally out of control and extreme, but by then it will be far too late.

]]> There's no way a climate bill that would significantly help will ever pass, because it would require people to radically change their lifestyles, which they're not willing to do.  Maybe never is too strong; a bill might pass once global climate change is totally out of control and extreme, but by then it will be far too late.

]]> Comment #8 by Tyler Durden http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-08-healthcare-eclipse-climate/ Wed, 10 Jun 2009 01:18:00 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-08-healthcare-eclipse-climate/8 This is a well worn maxim, but it only tells part of the story.  Those with money and power are on the right, which is a far bigger reason that they tend to win.  We have the numbers sometimes, but it often takes more than that.

]]> This is a well worn maxim, but it only tells part of the story.  Those with money and power are on the right, which is a far bigger reason that they tend to win.  We have the numbers sometimes, but it often takes more than that.

]]> Comment #9 by Dave Ewoldt http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-08-healthcare-eclipse-climate/ Wed, 10 Jun 2009 15:03:20 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-08-healthcare-eclipse-climate/9 Of course a realistic carbon reduction bill won't get passed with the focus shifted. The majority of the left isn't even willing to admit the "health care" plan being offered by Obusha doesn't actually change anything from the dysfunctional system we currently have. All it does is provide a few more victims for it at taxpayer expense. The profiteers continue to get their cut.

The Kleptocracy...Monetocracy...whatever term you prefer for the dominator elite who will do everything they can to protect the class hierarchy and their position at the top of it...have thrown the left YetAnotherDistraction which the left, as always, went for because the left is just as afraid of the necessary change as those who continue to profit from not changing.

The controlling mythology is that capitalism, profit, and economic growth in general must be protected at all costs. And we're about to find out what "at all costs" really entails.

Pentagon planners, Wall Street financiers, etc. know exactly where our current rate of collapse from catastrophic climate destabilization, resource depletion, and overall biospheric toxicity from Industrialism is taking us. But they think there's still more profit that can be squeezed out of the system, and refuse to let themselves admit that once collapse occurs all their money won't mean a thing. The sad truth, the one that is too awful to face, is it's the only game plan they have. As has been pointed out by many others, there is no Plan B.

And they've developed such mastery at offering distractions. Health care is such an emotional issue. Our Mad Max future if we don't change direction is still more ephemeral than asthma, cancer and all the other negative by-products of industrialism. We can't see ecosystems collapsing, but we can see hospital emergency rooms filling up. And of course corporate media ensures we all remain as confused as possible. Torture memos. FBI... err, I mean terrorist... plots to blow up America. Which silicon enhanced starlet is carrying who's baby. Etc ad nauseum.

So, I guess the bottom line is we (the Left) really are as stupid as the elites assume us to be. We have fooled ourselves into thinking that the health care issue will be the foot in the door (the red pill) we've been looking for to wake people up to what they really should be concerned about.

Neither energy nor greenhouse gases will be addressed realistically as long as the left continues to allow themselves to be so blatantly manipulated. The so-called partisanship in Congress is just another convenient distraction that helps us not have to face reality. We have Republican obstructionism to blame inaction on.

If, on the other hand, we were to adopt sustainability as our overarching goal, we could simultaneously address health, the environment, and turn democracy around from the fantasy role it currently occupies.















]]> Of course a realistic carbon reduction bill won't get passed with the focus shifted. The majority of the left isn't even willing to admit the "health care" plan being offered by Obusha doesn't actually change anything from the dysfunctional system we currently have. All it does is provide a few more victims for it at taxpayer expense. The profiteers continue to get their cut.

The Kleptocracy...Monetocracy...whatever term you prefer for the dominator elite who will do everything they can to protect the class hierarchy and their position at the top of it...have thrown the left YetAnotherDistraction which the left, as always, went for because the left is just as afraid of the necessary change as those who continue to profit from not changing.

The controlling mythology is that capitalism, profit, and economic growth in general must be protected at all costs. And we're about to find out what "at all costs" really entails.

Pentagon planners, Wall Street financiers, etc. know exactly where our current rate of collapse from catastrophic climate destabilization, resource depletion, and overall biospheric toxicity from Industrialism is taking us. But they think there's still more profit that can be squeezed out of the system, and refuse to let themselves admit that once collapse occurs all their money won't mean a thing. The sad truth, the one that is too awful to face, is it's the only game plan they have. As has been pointed out by many others, there is no Plan B.

And they've developed such mastery at offering distractions. Health care is such an emotional issue. Our Mad Max future if we don't change direction is still more ephemeral than asthma, cancer and all the other negative by-products of industrialism. We can't see ecosystems collapsing, but we can see hospital emergency rooms filling up. And of course corporate media ensures we all remain as confused as possible. Torture memos. FBI... err, I mean terrorist... plots to blow up America. Which silicon enhanced starlet is carrying who's baby. Etc ad nauseum.

So, I guess the bottom line is we (the Left) really are as stupid as the elites assume us to be. We have fooled ourselves into thinking that the health care issue will be the foot in the door (the red pill) we've been looking for to wake people up to what they really should be concerned about.

Neither energy nor greenhouse gases will be addressed realistically as long as the left continues to allow themselves to be so blatantly manipulated. The so-called partisanship in Congress is just another convenient distraction that helps us not have to face reality. We have Republican obstructionism to blame inaction on.

If, on the other hand, we were to adopt sustainability as our overarching goal, we could simultaneously address health, the environment, and turn democracy around from the fantasy role it currently occupies.















]]>