<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:wfw="http://wellformedweb.org/CommentAPI/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom">
<channel>
	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Think of the children, or think of your ski trip: Two ways to tell the climate story]]></title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.grist.org/rss/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<description>Grist Comment Feed</description>
	<language>en</language>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #1 by JohnMashey</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-02-climate-human-rights-activism/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 21:23:23 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-02-climate-human-rights-activism/1</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p>1) I think appealing to general morality indeed gets few new supporters.&nbsp; Many people are concerned about people in proportion to their relationships, and places according to their geographical distance.<p>2) People are often more motivated by what they lose, than some optional thing they might not gain. I'm not sure reduction of ski trips and beach holidays is as strong a motivation as one might like.<p>3) The effects of AGW are very geography-dependent, and enumerating a general list just dilutes it.&nbsp; I'd suggest that for instance , saying +2C sounds pretty attractive to someone in Canada.&nbsp; On the other hand, more specific items like:<p>British Columbia: all your mature pines will be killed by pine beetles<p>Ontario: by 2020, kudzu will survive<p>(various places in Canada): West Nile virus will thrive as well<p>Oklahoma: how do you feel about the likelihood that your grandkids will nto be able to live in OK, and will become Okies? Ever see "Grapes of Wrath?"<p>Vermont: too bad about ski resorts and maple sugar business, go to Canada<p>Upper midwest: you get warmer, but expect worse flood<p>Realistically, there are bunch of places where people live, where&nbsp; their grandhcildren will either not be able to, or it will be very expensive or very unpleasant.&nbsp; In the West, we have ghost towns around,and they are pretty sad.<p>4) So: a suggestion: maybe Grist should do a series, in some standard format, area by area, describing:<p>a) What's already been seen in that state or area.<p>b) Effects to expect, either by year or by degree or both<p>c) Cover temperature, precipitation changes, snowpack issues, water, sea level rise, insurance, agriculture, ecosystem&nbsp; changes, ins some standard format.<p>d) Ideally, do a series that covers USA &amp; Canada, at least.<p>e) When possible, recruit climate scientists local to the area to write.<p>5) If I had a wish, it would be to get Andrew Dessler or one of the other Texas climate scientists to start.&nbsp; See recent conference <a href="http://www.rivers.txstate.edu/CCTW/Proceedings.html" rel="nofollow">Climate Change Impacts on Texas Water, for example.&nbsp; Texas scientists know they have serious issues ahead, with even less water in some places, and a lot more in other places.<p><br />But, without being doom-mongering, you have to be specific, and tell people things they relate to directly, and those are *very* geography dependent.</br></p></a></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p>1) I think appealing to general morality indeed gets few new supporters.&nbsp; Many people are concerned about people in proportion to their relationships, and places according to their geographical distance.<p>2) People are often more motivated by what they lose, than some optional thing they might not gain. I'm not sure reduction of ski trips and beach holidays is as strong a motivation as one might like.<p>3) The effects of AGW are very geography-dependent, and enumerating a general list just dilutes it.&nbsp; I'd suggest that for instance , saying +2C sounds pretty attractive to someone in Canada.&nbsp; On the other hand, more specific items like:<p>British Columbia: all your mature pines will be killed by pine beetles<p>Ontario: by 2020, kudzu will survive<p>(various places in Canada): West Nile virus will thrive as well<p>Oklahoma: how do you feel about the likelihood that your grandkids will nto be able to live in OK, and will become Okies? Ever see "Grapes of Wrath?"<p>Vermont: too bad about ski resorts and maple sugar business, go to Canada<p>Upper midwest: you get warmer, but expect worse flood<p>Realistically, there are bunch of places where people live, where&nbsp; their grandhcildren will either not be able to, or it will be very expensive or very unpleasant.&nbsp; In the West, we have ghost towns around,and they are pretty sad.<p>4) So: a suggestion: maybe Grist should do a series, in some standard format, area by area, describing:<p>a) What's already been seen in that state or area.<p>b) Effects to expect, either by year or by degree or both<p>c) Cover temperature, precipitation changes, snowpack issues, water, sea level rise, insurance, agriculture, ecosystem&nbsp; changes, ins some standard format.<p>d) Ideally, do a series that covers USA &amp; Canada, at least.<p>e) When possible, recruit climate scientists local to the area to write.<p>5) If I had a wish, it would be to get Andrew Dessler or one of the other Texas climate scientists to start.&nbsp; See recent conference <a href="http://www.rivers.txstate.edu/CCTW/Proceedings.html" rel="nofollow">Climate Change Impacts on Texas Water, for example.&nbsp; Texas scientists know they have serious issues ahead, with even less water in some places, and a lot more in other places.<p><br />But, without being doom-mongering, you have to be specific, and tell people things they relate to directly, and those are *very* geography dependent.</br></p></a></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p></p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #2 by enviroperk</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-02-climate-human-rights-activism/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 05:24:37 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-02-climate-human-rights-activism/2</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p>Maybe this is a teachable moment about changing our excessive lifestyle that produces CO2.</p><p>Tell your children why we are not taking a ski trip<strong> this </strong>year.</p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p>Maybe this is a teachable moment about changing our excessive lifestyle that produces CO2.</p><p>Tell your children why we are not taking a ski trip<strong> this </strong>year.</p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #3 by sindark</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-02-climate-human-rights-activism/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 09:26:23 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-02-climate-human-rights-activism/3</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p>My general position on human rights is that they do not have moral
force in and of themselves - they are just a shorthand way of
encouraging good outcomes. For instance, it is the consequences of
protecting free speech that make it a moral imperative to do so, not
some metaphysical characteristic embedded in human beings. As with
other areas of ethical thinking, human rights can be a useful heuristic
when dealing with climate change, but what really matters is developing
the mechanisms of thinking and action that will prevent the worst
possible outcomes, while also seeking to secure the complimentary
benefits that could accompany a global transition to carbon neutrality.</p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p>My general position on human rights is that they do not have moral
force in and of themselves - they are just a shorthand way of
encouraging good outcomes. For instance, it is the consequences of
protecting free speech that make it a moral imperative to do so, not
some metaphysical characteristic embedded in human beings. As with
other areas of ethical thinking, human rights can be a useful heuristic
when dealing with climate change, but what really matters is developing
the mechanisms of thinking and action that will prevent the worst
possible outcomes, while also seeking to secure the complimentary
benefits that could accompany a global transition to carbon neutrality.</p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #4 by rjmart01</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-02-climate-human-rights-activism/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 09:57:49 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-02-climate-human-rights-activism/4</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p>Ummm ... protecting the family's ability to jet off to their favorite ski resort seems a particularly bad choice of argument, at least to me.&nbsp; Elimination of extravagant self-indulgent high-emissions leisure travel is an easy first step towards more sustainable lifestyles.&nbsp; After all, if you're not willing to pay that price, what price ARE you willing to pay?</p><p>Happily, it's not an either/or choice: morality or self-interest.&nbsp; Cultural change happens when multiple arguments (e.g., energy security, societal security, morality, self-interest) mutually reinforce to create a new set of expectations.&nbsp; But rampant, mindless consumerism is inherently incompatible with any expectation set that will motivate folks to address sustainability issues (not just ecological sustainability, but all sustainability).&nbsp;</p><p>Just as "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind", so a spreading culture of competitive consumerism makes the whole world uninhabitable.&nbsp; Like your mother told you when you were little:&nbsp; think what the world would be like if everyone did that.</p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p>Ummm ... protecting the family's ability to jet off to their favorite ski resort seems a particularly bad choice of argument, at least to me.&nbsp; Elimination of extravagant self-indulgent high-emissions leisure travel is an easy first step towards more sustainable lifestyles.&nbsp; After all, if you're not willing to pay that price, what price ARE you willing to pay?</p><p>Happily, it's not an either/or choice: morality or self-interest.&nbsp; Cultural change happens when multiple arguments (e.g., energy security, societal security, morality, self-interest) mutually reinforce to create a new set of expectations.&nbsp; But rampant, mindless consumerism is inherently incompatible with any expectation set that will motivate folks to address sustainability issues (not just ecological sustainability, but all sustainability).&nbsp;</p><p>Just as "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind", so a spreading culture of competitive consumerism makes the whole world uninhabitable.&nbsp; Like your mother told you when you were little:&nbsp; think what the world would be like if everyone did that.</p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
		<item>
            <title>Comment #5 by Jonathan Hiskes</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-02-climate-human-rights-activism/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 10:48:17 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/2009-06-02-climate-human-rights-activism/5</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[
				<p>That approach is never going to fly (pardon the pun). The <a href="../../../2009-05-28-liberals-mike-judge-new-show/" rel="nofollow">Goode Family parents might be willing to tell kids there's no vacation/beach time/Christmas this year to cut their carbon footprint, but sane families would not. And they shouldn't have to. Folks gotta rest, and that's just plain easier to do outside of your daily ruts, i.e. by getting out of town.<p>And exploring the world--and its awesomest natural places, if you've got the means--isn't the kind of thing we can expect people to give up. Finding <a href="http://www.greattrainescapes.com/glacierpark.htm" rel="nofollow">low-impact ways to get to the mountains is another matter--let's green up travel all we can. I'm not suggesting vacation is a human right--it's not within everyone's means--but giving up vacations is a pretty unlikely sell.</a></p></a></p>
			]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
				<p>That approach is never going to fly (pardon the pun). The <a href="../../../2009-05-28-liberals-mike-judge-new-show/" rel="nofollow">Goode Family parents might be willing to tell kids there's no vacation/beach time/Christmas this year to cut their carbon footprint, but sane families would not. And they shouldn't have to. Folks gotta rest, and that's just plain easier to do outside of your daily ruts, i.e. by getting out of town.<p>And exploring the world--and its awesomest natural places, if you've got the means--isn't the kind of thing we can expect people to give up. Finding <a href="http://www.greattrainescapes.com/glacierpark.htm" rel="nofollow">low-impact ways to get to the mountains is another matter--let's green up travel all we can. I'm not suggesting vacation is a human right--it's not within everyone's means--but giving up vacations is a pretty unlikely sell.</a></p></a></p>
			]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
    
 </channel>
</rss>