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	<title><![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Of cow burps, beef, and methane]]></title>
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	<description>Grist Comment Feed</description>
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            <title>Comment #1 by Biodiversivist</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 07:35:11 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/1</guid>
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				Moderation in consumption of animal products is a wise idea for many reasons.

Cow methane accounts for about 1.5% of US GHG emissions.

Burgers are not worse than SUVs

<a href="http://home.comcast.net/~russ676/Graphics/img6.gif" rel="nofollow">http://home.comcast.net/~russ676/Graphics/img6.gif

The FAO study does show that all livestock is worse than all transport primarily via carbon sink destruction:

<a href="http://home.comcast.net/~russ676/Graphics/img0.gif" rel="nofollow">http://home.comcast.net/~russ676/Graphics/img0.gif

I suspect that a lot of cattle production in much of the world would be close to carbon neutral if it were not expanding into existing carbon sinks because of growth.

Buffalo herds were probably pretty carbon neutral.</a></a>
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				Moderation in consumption of animal products is a wise idea for many reasons.

Cow methane accounts for about 1.5% of US GHG emissions.

Burgers are not worse than SUVs

<a href="http://home.comcast.net/~russ676/Graphics/img6.gif" rel="nofollow">http://home.comcast.net/~russ676/Graphics/img6.gif

The FAO study does show that all livestock is worse than all transport primarily via carbon sink destruction:

<a href="http://home.comcast.net/~russ676/Graphics/img0.gif" rel="nofollow">http://home.comcast.net/~russ676/Graphics/img0.gif

I suspect that a lot of cattle production in much of the world would be close to carbon neutral if it were not expanding into existing carbon sinks because of growth.

Buffalo herds were probably pretty carbon neutral.</a></a>
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            <title>Comment #2 by atreyger</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 09:28:47 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/2</guid>
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				<p>This article appears to me to suggest that the cattle numbers may not be all that bad in greenhouse gas terms alone. After all, despite the burgeoning number of cattle, these new heads are replacing the decimated free-roaming ruminants, of the bison and buffalo type. Clearly, I am only using logic to support this claim, but if there were millions of free-roaming bison and other ruminants all over the world that are now exterminated, and these have in turn been replaced by CAFO cattle (which emit four times less CO2 than the free roamers), then the overall impact of the meat-industry farts is likely to be neutral. Of course, there's the destruction of carbon stores during the growing of corn, and the growing of corn using tractors and fossil-fuel based fertilizers, and delivery of said corn to stalls, and subsequent delivery of cattle to slaughterhouses and meat to markets, which are all likely to be less than neutral. I'm just saying though, I'm not sure if the sheer numbers of new cattle makes a difference in terms of greenhouse gases produced.</p>
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				<p>This article appears to me to suggest that the cattle numbers may not be all that bad in greenhouse gas terms alone. After all, despite the burgeoning number of cattle, these new heads are replacing the decimated free-roaming ruminants, of the bison and buffalo type. Clearly, I am only using logic to support this claim, but if there were millions of free-roaming bison and other ruminants all over the world that are now exterminated, and these have in turn been replaced by CAFO cattle (which emit four times less CO2 than the free roamers), then the overall impact of the meat-industry farts is likely to be neutral. Of course, there's the destruction of carbon stores during the growing of corn, and the growing of corn using tractors and fossil-fuel based fertilizers, and delivery of said corn to stalls, and subsequent delivery of cattle to slaughterhouses and meat to markets, which are all likely to be less than neutral. I'm just saying though, I'm not sure if the sheer numbers of new cattle makes a difference in terms of greenhouse gases produced.</p>
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            <title>Comment #3 by Clifford Wells</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 11:03:19 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/3</guid>
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				<p>Methane emissions come fome a lot of sources including swamps, termites, ground releases (bubbling oil seeps), natural gas leaks, burning or combustion - and yes, cow burp-farts.&nbsp; I guess this is all about eating brown-eyed cow but let's put it in perspective.&nbsp; If you view a satellite map of the Earth you can easily see how cities are closely correlated with methane emissions - because people are always burning stuff, eating, etc.</p><p>Can you imagine if every human on the plannet only ate Boston Baked Beans?&nbsp; Just kidding, but many kinds of beans and vegetables can cause human farts.&nbsp; Honestly, I cannot look at another Garbanzo bean in my life.&nbsp;</p><p>Anyway, great article and thanks for the smile.&nbsp; Better watch out that Monsanto doesn't read this and invent GMO "beano" for cattle feed and vegatables, right?&nbsp; LOL...</p>
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				<p>Methane emissions come fome a lot of sources including swamps, termites, ground releases (bubbling oil seeps), natural gas leaks, burning or combustion - and yes, cow burp-farts.&nbsp; I guess this is all about eating brown-eyed cow but let's put it in perspective.&nbsp; If you view a satellite map of the Earth you can easily see how cities are closely correlated with methane emissions - because people are always burning stuff, eating, etc.</p><p>Can you imagine if every human on the plannet only ate Boston Baked Beans?&nbsp; Just kidding, but many kinds of beans and vegetables can cause human farts.&nbsp; Honestly, I cannot look at another Garbanzo bean in my life.&nbsp;</p><p>Anyway, great article and thanks for the smile.&nbsp; Better watch out that Monsanto doesn't read this and invent GMO "beano" for cattle feed and vegatables, right?&nbsp; LOL...</p>
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            <title>Comment #4 by GO</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 11:40:31 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/4</guid>
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				<p>Thought you should know those are milk cows in the picture, not beef cows.&nbsp;</p>
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				<p>Thought you should know those are milk cows in the picture, not beef cows.&nbsp;</p>
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            <title>Comment #5 by Tom Philpott</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 13:14:04 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/5</guid>
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				<p>True; but old milk cows become burgers, too.</p>
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				<p>True; but old milk cows become burgers, too.</p>
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            <title>Comment #6 by GO</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 15:23:07 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/6</guid>
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				<p>Well, milk cows CAN become burgers, but the whole feed regime, the discussion of grass-fed, etc., simply doesn't apply to milk cows across the board.&nbsp; Grist just missed it on this one, dude.</p>
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				<p>Well, milk cows CAN become burgers, but the whole feed regime, the discussion of grass-fed, etc., simply doesn't apply to milk cows across the board.&nbsp; Grist just missed it on this one, dude.</p>
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            <title>Comment #7 by enviroperk</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 21:27:06 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/7</guid>
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				<p>Hmm. I confess, it will be hard to give up the grilled steak and burgers. Vegi-burgers remind me of non-alcoholic beer --what is the point?</p><p>There may be a future in beef-eater rehab clinics. A lock-down facility in which you are taught the evils of beef followed by two days of working in a slaughter house. Then you would spend a week working in a small garden and eating only what was grown there. It might work!</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
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				<p>Hmm. I confess, it will be hard to give up the grilled steak and burgers. Vegi-burgers remind me of non-alcoholic beer --what is the point?</p><p>There may be a future in beef-eater rehab clinics. A lock-down facility in which you are taught the evils of beef followed by two days of working in a slaughter house. Then you would spend a week working in a small garden and eating only what was grown there. It might work!</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
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            <title>Comment #8 by Biodiversivist</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 22:17:20 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/8</guid>
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				<p>Actually, enviroperk,</p><p>I suspect your plan would backfire.</p><p>Working in a slaughter house would just remove that particular aversion. You would get used to it very quickly. Your distant and very recent ancestors hunted and slaughtered animals routinely. In my time I've gutted, skinned, and cleaned uncounted rabbits, fish and squirrels, fed pigeons rats and rabbits to snakes, euthanized terminally ill and suffering pets. Death is part of life. Suffering is the thing to minimize.</p><p>Spending a week tending a small hobby garden would give you a false impression. Working as a farm hand in the baking sun all summer and eating for an entire year only what you could successfully grow would teach you to find an easier way to make a living.</p>
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				<p>Actually, enviroperk,</p><p>I suspect your plan would backfire.</p><p>Working in a slaughter house would just remove that particular aversion. You would get used to it very quickly. Your distant and very recent ancestors hunted and slaughtered animals routinely. In my time I've gutted, skinned, and cleaned uncounted rabbits, fish and squirrels, fed pigeons rats and rabbits to snakes, euthanized terminally ill and suffering pets. Death is part of life. Suffering is the thing to minimize.</p><p>Spending a week tending a small hobby garden would give you a false impression. Working as a farm hand in the baking sun all summer and eating for an entire year only what you could successfully grow would teach you to find an easier way to make a living.</p>
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            <title>Comment #9 by enviroperk</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 23:12:50 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/9</guid>
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				<p>BioD, Thanks for the information.&nbsp; I guess my fortune will not be made in developing beef rehab resorts; still you give me hope.</p><p>Sadly, I am aware of the path of which you speak&nbsp; as I live in a hunting-positive environment. Well, hunting here is sitting in a "deer stand" on a comfortable chair, 20 feet up in the air, waiting for the deer you have corn-fed in high tech solar powered and timer driven feeders all year long, to saunter by. Yeah, you are pretty sure they will be here and 6:00am and 6:00pm.&nbsp; Yes, here it is the only perfectly acceptable reason for leaving the wife and screaming young ones ( "younguns" in local parlance)&nbsp; at home while you peacefully watch hours of movies on your iPhone in your deer stand.&nbsp; This may be the deepest secret of the southern hunting lobby. The only thing that could interrupt this somatic activity is a deer. Then you have to shoot it, chase it to the point of it's ultimate demise, haul it's only large-dog-size carcass through untold amounts of razor sharp vegetation, and then hang and gut it. (So Sorry if the graphic&nbsp; description offends those living where someone else guts your "free range meat"--like Massachusetts or New York ). Yet, after a few dozen of these adventures, I still prefer supermarket steaks. Which is why I thought this erroneous plan would work. (Random note: Raccoon meat is really, really bad tasting stuff.)</p><p>At this point I have to redeem my hunter-self by saying I lived in Colorado for most of my life where you hiked through knee deep snow for days to shoot an elk that was the size of a horse that would travel a mile after the fatal shot. Then you would have to coax a dozen of your fellow hunters ( you better have a dozen coaxable fellow hunters with you) to haul it for miles and gut the thing. I still preferred supermarket steak.</p><p>Maybe you can also help me on this problem: I have this huge crop of Swiss chard in my garden. It grew slowly over the winter, just enough for nice salads and as "lettuce" for my hamburgers,&nbsp; and now each plant is nearly 5 feet high!&nbsp; Five feet times 40 plants that well, I can't eat. Do you know of some pallatable recipes for same? I do not have the heart to slaughter it all and plant yet another row of tomatoes and peppers for my "salsa garden".</p><p>Note: I live just a wee bit north of New Orleans where the major gardening challenge is keeping the height of your weeds below the height of the more edible stuff.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
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				<p>BioD, Thanks for the information.&nbsp; I guess my fortune will not be made in developing beef rehab resorts; still you give me hope.</p><p>Sadly, I am aware of the path of which you speak&nbsp; as I live in a hunting-positive environment. Well, hunting here is sitting in a "deer stand" on a comfortable chair, 20 feet up in the air, waiting for the deer you have corn-fed in high tech solar powered and timer driven feeders all year long, to saunter by. Yeah, you are pretty sure they will be here and 6:00am and 6:00pm.&nbsp; Yes, here it is the only perfectly acceptable reason for leaving the wife and screaming young ones ( "younguns" in local parlance)&nbsp; at home while you peacefully watch hours of movies on your iPhone in your deer stand.&nbsp; This may be the deepest secret of the southern hunting lobby. The only thing that could interrupt this somatic activity is a deer. Then you have to shoot it, chase it to the point of it's ultimate demise, haul it's only large-dog-size carcass through untold amounts of razor sharp vegetation, and then hang and gut it. (So Sorry if the graphic&nbsp; description offends those living where someone else guts your "free range meat"--like Massachusetts or New York ). Yet, after a few dozen of these adventures, I still prefer supermarket steaks. Which is why I thought this erroneous plan would work. (Random note: Raccoon meat is really, really bad tasting stuff.)</p><p>At this point I have to redeem my hunter-self by saying I lived in Colorado for most of my life where you hiked through knee deep snow for days to shoot an elk that was the size of a horse that would travel a mile after the fatal shot. Then you would have to coax a dozen of your fellow hunters ( you better have a dozen coaxable fellow hunters with you) to haul it for miles and gut the thing. I still preferred supermarket steak.</p><p>Maybe you can also help me on this problem: I have this huge crop of Swiss chard in my garden. It grew slowly over the winter, just enough for nice salads and as "lettuce" for my hamburgers,&nbsp; and now each plant is nearly 5 feet high!&nbsp; Five feet times 40 plants that well, I can't eat. Do you know of some pallatable recipes for same? I do not have the heart to slaughter it all and plant yet another row of tomatoes and peppers for my "salsa garden".</p><p>Note: I live just a wee bit north of New Orleans where the major gardening challenge is keeping the height of your weeds below the height of the more edible stuff.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
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            <title>Comment #10 by atreyger</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 22 May 2009 07:15:50 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/10</guid>
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				<p>I'm not sure that the last sentence is true. My friend has chosen a life of agriculture for himself, and is currently the only worker on his own organic farm. I don't know what it is that keeps him coming back for more, but he does, which is why the prior suggestion might work.</p>
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				<p>I'm not sure that the last sentence is true. My friend has chosen a life of agriculture for himself, and is currently the only worker on his own organic farm. I don't know what it is that keeps him coming back for more, but he does, which is why the prior suggestion might work.</p>
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            <title>Comment #11 by atreyger</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 22 May 2009 07:27:03 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/11</guid>
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				<p>While I agree that baiting deer is not a good way to hunt, I fully disagree that hunting from a tree stand is as pejorative as you make it out to be. Comfortable or uncomfortable as some models are (I have two tree stands that are both damn uncomfortable, from having to use a rope to get into the tree every time, to having to haul the stand up, luckily only once per season, to usually finding myself without a comfortable back) sitting almost absolutely still for hours on end is uncomfortable even if any one of them was of couch quality, which none of them are. Also in New York, the weather is only nice for the early bowhunting season, and by middle of regular season, you are just as likely to endure snow as a random heat spike (damn you, global warming!). Also, the deer down in your neck of the woods are small, because you live in the south. It is axiomatic that the further south you go, the smaller the representatives of the species get.</p><p><br /></p></br>
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				<p>While I agree that baiting deer is not a good way to hunt, I fully disagree that hunting from a tree stand is as pejorative as you make it out to be. Comfortable or uncomfortable as some models are (I have two tree stands that are both damn uncomfortable, from having to use a rope to get into the tree every time, to having to haul the stand up, luckily only once per season, to usually finding myself without a comfortable back) sitting almost absolutely still for hours on end is uncomfortable even if any one of them was of couch quality, which none of them are. Also in New York, the weather is only nice for the early bowhunting season, and by middle of regular season, you are just as likely to endure snow as a random heat spike (damn you, global warming!). Also, the deer down in your neck of the woods are small, because you live in the south. It is axiomatic that the further south you go, the smaller the representatives of the species get.</p><p><br /></p></br>
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            <title>Comment #12 by Grassy</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 22 May 2009 09:05:43 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/12</guid>
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				<p>Interesting article.&nbsp; For the most part, dairy cattle are fed the same type of grain-intensive diet that beef cattle are and are kept in the same confining, polluting conditions.&nbsp; Making a distinction between the two for the purposes of this discussion is not important.&nbsp;<p>What I think is important is to note that grass-fed cattle are just that&nbsp; - grass-fed.&nbsp; This means that pasture is involved on a significant scale.&nbsp; Pasture takes no fossil fuel imputs to maintain (just properly managed herds) and sequesters a lot of carbon thus&nbsp;helping the whole excess atmospheric carbon problem.&nbsp; Just imagine if all of those corn fields were pasture instead.&nbsp; There is a good explaination on this site :&nbsp; <a href="http://www.carbonfarmersofamerica.com/Savory3.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.carbonfarmersofamerica.com/Savory3.htm</a></p></p>
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				<p>Interesting article.&nbsp; For the most part, dairy cattle are fed the same type of grain-intensive diet that beef cattle are and are kept in the same confining, polluting conditions.&nbsp; Making a distinction between the two for the purposes of this discussion is not important.&nbsp;<p>What I think is important is to note that grass-fed cattle are just that&nbsp; - grass-fed.&nbsp; This means that pasture is involved on a significant scale.&nbsp; Pasture takes no fossil fuel imputs to maintain (just properly managed herds) and sequesters a lot of carbon thus&nbsp;helping the whole excess atmospheric carbon problem.&nbsp; Just imagine if all of those corn fields were pasture instead.&nbsp; There is a good explaination on this site :&nbsp; <a href="http://www.carbonfarmersofamerica.com/Savory3.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.carbonfarmersofamerica.com/Savory3.htm</a></p></p>
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            <title>Comment #13 by splashy</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 23 May 2009 04:08:06 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/13</guid>
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				<p>They absolutely do become burgers, and t-bones, and ribeyes, and all the other cuts. They are corn and other high-protein foods fed all their lives.</p><p>In fact, considering that - and their relatively cush lives when being&nbsp; milked - they are considered to be some of the best meat.</p>
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				<p>They absolutely do become burgers, and t-bones, and ribeyes, and all the other cuts. They are corn and other high-protein foods fed all their lives.</p><p>In fact, considering that - and their relatively cush lives when being&nbsp; milked - they are considered to be some of the best meat.</p>
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            <title>Comment #14 by PermieWriter</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 23 May 2009 17:49:04 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/14</guid>
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				<p>Your chard is getting read to bolt (i.e. make seeds). Harvest it now. If you wait, it will get leggy and bitter and be good for nothing but deer bait. When you cook it, it shrinks a lot, so you won't be so overwhelmed. Wash it, chop it and saute it. Eat what you want, then stick the rest of it in the fridge and add it to scrambled eggs, stir-fries, nachos (it works) etc. until the remains get scary. Then you compost that.</p>
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				<p>Your chard is getting read to bolt (i.e. make seeds). Harvest it now. If you wait, it will get leggy and bitter and be good for nothing but deer bait. When you cook it, it shrinks a lot, so you won't be so overwhelmed. Wash it, chop it and saute it. Eat what you want, then stick the rest of it in the fridge and add it to scrambled eggs, stir-fries, nachos (it works) etc. until the remains get scary. Then you compost that.</p>
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            <title>Comment #15 by enviroperk</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 23 May 2009 19:11:22 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/15</guid>
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				<p>Thank you for the hints on the Chard. Your suggestions come at a good time; I have lots of family in town for an annual reunion. They will be eating Chard.&nbsp;</p><p>Ironically, our reunion is centers around an affair called a "pig-picking" that involves a large swine cooking all day. Not sure I am ready for swine after all the reading about the factory farms even though I am assured this pig was raised locally on a conventional farm.</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
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				<p>Thank you for the hints on the Chard. Your suggestions come at a good time; I have lots of family in town for an annual reunion. They will be eating Chard.&nbsp;</p><p>Ironically, our reunion is centers around an affair called a "pig-picking" that involves a large swine cooking all day. Not sure I am ready for swine after all the reading about the factory farms even though I am assured this pig was raised locally on a conventional farm.</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
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            <title>Comment #16 by Clifford Wells</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 24 May 2009 10:15:31 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/16</guid>
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				<p>Excellent point about grass-fed versus fed in large pens and barns, but those pastures are a lot of work.&nbsp; There's fallow pastures, hay pastures, and free-range pastures, all different kinds, and each requires a significant amount of fence repair, tractoring, and so forth.&nbsp; Hay is a huge business as well, using fertilizers, manure (for the organic types), seed, and methods to reduce weeds (mechanical, chemical, prescribed burning).&nbsp; Rarely is there ever that noble vision of perfectly green fields with happy, content cows, cattle, and bulls munching grass - in fact, overly green grass can cause colic (burping farts and swelling abdomens and distress).&nbsp; Even open-range ranching can require water for the animals, supplemental hay and feed, getting rid of noxious weeds, and even strange operations like burning the spines off prickly pear cactus so the cows can eat them.&nbsp; Then there are droughts, floods, wildfires, and diseases (screw fly, etc., even anthrax is considered "natural" in the soil).&nbsp; Sure, I've had pet baby cows before, happy ones too, but ... it's more work than you would think, and the profit just isn't all that great.&nbsp;</p><p>It's the big corporations that make all the money, not the grow-out pasture folks and some organic beef operations, or the "mini-ranch" dudes.</p>
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				<p>Excellent point about grass-fed versus fed in large pens and barns, but those pastures are a lot of work.&nbsp; There's fallow pastures, hay pastures, and free-range pastures, all different kinds, and each requires a significant amount of fence repair, tractoring, and so forth.&nbsp; Hay is a huge business as well, using fertilizers, manure (for the organic types), seed, and methods to reduce weeds (mechanical, chemical, prescribed burning).&nbsp; Rarely is there ever that noble vision of perfectly green fields with happy, content cows, cattle, and bulls munching grass - in fact, overly green grass can cause colic (burping farts and swelling abdomens and distress).&nbsp; Even open-range ranching can require water for the animals, supplemental hay and feed, getting rid of noxious weeds, and even strange operations like burning the spines off prickly pear cactus so the cows can eat them.&nbsp; Then there are droughts, floods, wildfires, and diseases (screw fly, etc., even anthrax is considered "natural" in the soil).&nbsp; Sure, I've had pet baby cows before, happy ones too, but ... it's more work than you would think, and the profit just isn't all that great.&nbsp;</p><p>It's the big corporations that make all the money, not the grow-out pasture folks and some organic beef operations, or the "mini-ranch" dudes.</p>
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            <title>Comment #17 by Grassy</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 24 May 2009 15:16:58 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/17</guid>
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				<p>Clifford,</p><p>Really great thoughts on pastures.&nbsp; What you say is mostly true for traditional systems.&nbsp; If pastures are grazed intensively (meaning the cattle bunched together and moved frequently - imitating the natural habits of herd animals) there should be no fallow pastures or "free-range" pastures.&nbsp; When pastures are managed correctly, weeds become a minimal problem.&nbsp; &nbsp; Hay is a necessary, fossil-fuel consuming part of it - you are right.&nbsp; It doesn't mean chemicals need to be used.&nbsp; Most open-range ranching is as you describe currently.&nbsp; There are a group of ranchers, however, who are managing the land and animals more carefully and actually improving forage quality, water quality and biodiversity.&nbsp; It is truly wonderful to see.&nbsp;</p><p>Bloat does sometimes happen on overly-rich pastures but if the farmer is engaged and watchful, it can easily be prevented with proper roughage.&nbsp;</p><p>Yes, it is a lot of work, but myself and my family are living proof that 100 percent grass-fed dairy and beef is profitable and viable (it is our sole source of income - no hobby operation).&nbsp;</p><p>While I constantly hear about cutting back on meat to reduce your carbon footprint, it is worthy to note that eating locally-produced, grass-fed beef has a smaller carbon footprint than eating veggies trucked 1500 miles (in most cases).&nbsp;</p><p>Thanks for the discussion!</p>
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				<p>Clifford,</p><p>Really great thoughts on pastures.&nbsp; What you say is mostly true for traditional systems.&nbsp; If pastures are grazed intensively (meaning the cattle bunched together and moved frequently - imitating the natural habits of herd animals) there should be no fallow pastures or "free-range" pastures.&nbsp; When pastures are managed correctly, weeds become a minimal problem.&nbsp; &nbsp; Hay is a necessary, fossil-fuel consuming part of it - you are right.&nbsp; It doesn't mean chemicals need to be used.&nbsp; Most open-range ranching is as you describe currently.&nbsp; There are a group of ranchers, however, who are managing the land and animals more carefully and actually improving forage quality, water quality and biodiversity.&nbsp; It is truly wonderful to see.&nbsp;</p><p>Bloat does sometimes happen on overly-rich pastures but if the farmer is engaged and watchful, it can easily be prevented with proper roughage.&nbsp;</p><p>Yes, it is a lot of work, but myself and my family are living proof that 100 percent grass-fed dairy and beef is profitable and viable (it is our sole source of income - no hobby operation).&nbsp;</p><p>While I constantly hear about cutting back on meat to reduce your carbon footprint, it is worthy to note that eating locally-produced, grass-fed beef has a smaller carbon footprint than eating veggies trucked 1500 miles (in most cases).&nbsp;</p><p>Thanks for the discussion!</p>
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            <title>Comment #18 by blackcat8</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 25 May 2009 12:51:22 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/18</guid>
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				<p>As a grad student studying natural resources, who is during her Master's thesis on this exact topic (and who has read the FAO report, Eshel report, and just about other relative report that exists out there), I have to put my two cents in on this and respond to other comments. Though I agree that there are some small- and medium-scale grass-fed operations that can be called sustainable (heck, I live in Vermont, so I know a few offhand), the truth of the matter is, a majority of production in the U.S. is not. Furthermore, the best available science as it exists today has confirmed that food miles make up VERY LITTLE of the total GHG output in agriculture; in other words, it is NOT TRUE that eating local, grassfed meat has a smaller carbon footprint than eating vegetables from out of the state or even out of the country. In fact, an extensive study by Carnegie Melon concluded that eating just one red meat (i.e., beef, pork &amp; lamb) &nbsp;dairy-free day a week did substantially more to lower one's GHG footprint than eating an entire week of strictly local food. This is simply because the inputs of red meat animals are so much more intensive, and because nitrous oxide and methane have significantly more global warming potential than carbon dioxide (23 times and 296 times the amount of CO2 respectively), and are the main gases associated with cattle and other ruminant animals. Also, the comparison between historical bison populations and domestic livestock numbers in the U.S., and how that trades off into being close to carbon neutral, is seriously flawed. First of all, the historical massive bison herds that roamed the Plains before and in the early days of European settlement in the States, existed before the massive tropical deforestation and widespread global soil erosion and desertification that has occurred since then, thus depriving us of the large-scale of carbon sinks available to offset their presence. I don't know historical bison population numbers offhand, though I know they were significant. I still question whether they were quite as high as current domestic livestock populations. Even if the former was higher in number (again, which is questionable) or relatively close in number, one should still realize that this was back when human populations were much much less and there was little human development. Therefore, it would be impossible with current U.S. populations and its companion development, to introduce livestock on par with historical bison populations to the land. The ecological effects of domestic animals on landscapes is not comparable to that of wild, natural occuring species and I get tired of seeing them compared. For instance, domestic dogs and their feces affect the land much differently (and adversely) than coyotes and wolves do...same thing for ungulates. Also, I do get tired of hearing about human bodily function emissions. We do not have rumens, we do not digest &amp; process grass, there it is NOT comparable (though of course I agree we should lower our own numbers as well).&nbsp;</p><p>Additionally, pasture is not necessarily the optimal land type for all regions, and many regions are in fact ecologically unsuitable for grazing, and would be best suited instead for wetlands resortation, reforestation efforts, etc. for building sequestration as opposed to pasture. For those regions that are suitable for rest rotation grazing, such as New England where I reside, even then, most pastures are estimated to have about a 25-year period of sequestration before the soils reach a "saturation point" and then may actually begin to leak or lose carbon. So, grazing for sequestration purposes still might be a temporary fix and is restricted to only a certain regions in the U.S.&nbsp;</p><p>To put it simply, no matter what type of meat or dairy we are consuming, we need to consume substantially LESS of it. The FAO called for the immediate halving of all livestock production; the IPCC suggested everyone choose to eat meat free one day a week and reduce from there; other estimates say we should reduce by 2/3 in the next decade or so. The U.S. are the highest per capita consumers of meat and dairy in the world, at three times the global average. It's simply not sustainable, and hasn't been for awhile. There's no way to argue around it or justify it. Eat less meat and dairy...</p>
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				<p>As a grad student studying natural resources, who is during her Master's thesis on this exact topic (and who has read the FAO report, Eshel report, and just about other relative report that exists out there), I have to put my two cents in on this and respond to other comments. Though I agree that there are some small- and medium-scale grass-fed operations that can be called sustainable (heck, I live in Vermont, so I know a few offhand), the truth of the matter is, a majority of production in the U.S. is not. Furthermore, the best available science as it exists today has confirmed that food miles make up VERY LITTLE of the total GHG output in agriculture; in other words, it is NOT TRUE that eating local, grassfed meat has a smaller carbon footprint than eating vegetables from out of the state or even out of the country. In fact, an extensive study by Carnegie Melon concluded that eating just one red meat (i.e., beef, pork &amp; lamb) &nbsp;dairy-free day a week did substantially more to lower one's GHG footprint than eating an entire week of strictly local food. This is simply because the inputs of red meat animals are so much more intensive, and because nitrous oxide and methane have significantly more global warming potential than carbon dioxide (23 times and 296 times the amount of CO2 respectively), and are the main gases associated with cattle and other ruminant animals. Also, the comparison between historical bison populations and domestic livestock numbers in the U.S., and how that trades off into being close to carbon neutral, is seriously flawed. First of all, the historical massive bison herds that roamed the Plains before and in the early days of European settlement in the States, existed before the massive tropical deforestation and widespread global soil erosion and desertification that has occurred since then, thus depriving us of the large-scale of carbon sinks available to offset their presence. I don't know historical bison population numbers offhand, though I know they were significant. I still question whether they were quite as high as current domestic livestock populations. Even if the former was higher in number (again, which is questionable) or relatively close in number, one should still realize that this was back when human populations were much much less and there was little human development. Therefore, it would be impossible with current U.S. populations and its companion development, to introduce livestock on par with historical bison populations to the land. The ecological effects of domestic animals on landscapes is not comparable to that of wild, natural occuring species and I get tired of seeing them compared. For instance, domestic dogs and their feces affect the land much differently (and adversely) than coyotes and wolves do...same thing for ungulates. Also, I do get tired of hearing about human bodily function emissions. We do not have rumens, we do not digest &amp; process grass, there it is NOT comparable (though of course I agree we should lower our own numbers as well).&nbsp;</p><p>Additionally, pasture is not necessarily the optimal land type for all regions, and many regions are in fact ecologically unsuitable for grazing, and would be best suited instead for wetlands resortation, reforestation efforts, etc. for building sequestration as opposed to pasture. For those regions that are suitable for rest rotation grazing, such as New England where I reside, even then, most pastures are estimated to have about a 25-year period of sequestration before the soils reach a "saturation point" and then may actually begin to leak or lose carbon. So, grazing for sequestration purposes still might be a temporary fix and is restricted to only a certain regions in the U.S.&nbsp;</p><p>To put it simply, no matter what type of meat or dairy we are consuming, we need to consume substantially LESS of it. The FAO called for the immediate halving of all livestock production; the IPCC suggested everyone choose to eat meat free one day a week and reduce from there; other estimates say we should reduce by 2/3 in the next decade or so. The U.S. are the highest per capita consumers of meat and dairy in the world, at three times the global average. It's simply not sustainable, and hasn't been for awhile. There's no way to argue around it or justify it. Eat less meat and dairy...</p>
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            <title>Comment #19 by Grassy</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 25 May 2009 14:27:23 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/19</guid>
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				<p>Hello,</p><p>Thank you for your information and comments.&nbsp; I have not read the reports you cite and find the conclusions interesting.&nbsp;</p><p>I agree that the inputs that go into confined livestock are excessive and we should all cut out conventionally-raised meat.&nbsp; I also agree that not all land is suitable for pasture but there is much land that is devoted to corn and soy that used to be grasslands and is well-suited to this more ecologically-sound purpose.&nbsp;</p><p>I don't want to drag this out and really do appreciate your comments.&nbsp; I have just one question, what inputs do you see going into, for example, grass-fed beef that are sooooo much greater than a vegetable crop?&nbsp; The only inputs that go into our beef are the fuel to transport them&nbsp;to be processed and then to market, some fencing, some salt blocks, and some fuel to harvest hay for the winter (the same, I imagine as would go into harvestng soy beans, wheat, or beets mechanically).&nbsp; I know this is not the picture of beef production in general in this country and a clear distinction should be made.&nbsp; I am a vegetarian when eating away from home but happily consume the meat we produce.&nbsp;</p><p>I really am interested as I like to fully understand the product we produce and market and its implications.&nbsp;</p><p>Thank you!</p>
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				<p>Hello,</p><p>Thank you for your information and comments.&nbsp; I have not read the reports you cite and find the conclusions interesting.&nbsp;</p><p>I agree that the inputs that go into confined livestock are excessive and we should all cut out conventionally-raised meat.&nbsp; I also agree that not all land is suitable for pasture but there is much land that is devoted to corn and soy that used to be grasslands and is well-suited to this more ecologically-sound purpose.&nbsp;</p><p>I don't want to drag this out and really do appreciate your comments.&nbsp; I have just one question, what inputs do you see going into, for example, grass-fed beef that are sooooo much greater than a vegetable crop?&nbsp; The only inputs that go into our beef are the fuel to transport them&nbsp;to be processed and then to market, some fencing, some salt blocks, and some fuel to harvest hay for the winter (the same, I imagine as would go into harvestng soy beans, wheat, or beets mechanically).&nbsp; I know this is not the picture of beef production in general in this country and a clear distinction should be made.&nbsp; I am a vegetarian when eating away from home but happily consume the meat we produce.&nbsp;</p><p>I really am interested as I like to fully understand the product we produce and market and its implications.&nbsp;</p><p>Thank you!</p>
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            <title>Comment #20 by blackcat8</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 25 May 2009 15:39:01 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/20</guid>
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				<p>Hello,<p>Thanks for your questions. In response to your question on inputs, I was speaking more generally. Livestock, especially cattle, require much, much more resources in general, specifically water, to produce meat and dairy. In my experience traveling to different farms in the NE area, very little farms in fact are 100%&nbsp; grassfed; most of them seem to use at least some supplemental grain. Some of this grain is produced on the farm. Most often, it is not. So this is another input that can stack up. Esteemed agroecologist David Pimintel has done a lot of research on inputs into livestock production. Here's one study: <a href="http://www.news.cornell.edu/releases/aug97/livestock.hrs.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.news.cornell.edu/releases/aug97/livestock.hrs.html<p>The Carnegie Melon study I cited on local v. lower meat diet can be found at this link: <a class="fixed" href="http://pubs.acs.org/cgi-bin/abstract.cgi/esthag/2008/42/i10/abs/es702969f.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://pubs.acs.org/cgi-bin/abstract.cgi/esthag/2008/42/i10/abs/es702969f.html&nbsp;<p>Again, my attempt is not to demonize all meat and dairy production. I think that small-scale, pasture-based, localized livestock production in select regions can be defined as sustainable and even ecologically beneficial (in fact, my thesis is also partially on what subsidies are available to graziers and if the playing field is level between them v. CAFOs). However, I am trying to enforce the message that pasture-raised is not a panacea and in order for it to be a sustainable option, overall animal product consumption rates need to be dramatically reduced. In my personal experience here in Vermont, there is a great amount of resistance in the University of implementing a Meatless Monday or to even foster discussion on reducing meat or dairy consumption, despite some of the findings of the university itself. A lot of people in this resistance merely promote pasture-raised and local as the band-aid solution (even though a lot of the meat offered in fact is industrially-produced).&nbsp; I just want to make it clear to people that just because you're eating "grassfed" or "local" or "organic" meat, doesn't make the act in and of itself sustainable, just like buying and driving a hybrid isn't sustainable if you're not going to drive any less. In pure terms of GHG footprint, vegetarians and vegans have a much lighter step than meat-eaters no matter how you cut it. And, most vegetarians I know are very conscious of eating local and organic produce.<p>&nbsp;<p>&nbsp;<p>&nbsp;</p></p></p></p></a></p></a></p></p>
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				<p>Hello,<p>Thanks for your questions. In response to your question on inputs, I was speaking more generally. Livestock, especially cattle, require much, much more resources in general, specifically water, to produce meat and dairy. In my experience traveling to different farms in the NE area, very little farms in fact are 100%&nbsp; grassfed; most of them seem to use at least some supplemental grain. Some of this grain is produced on the farm. Most often, it is not. So this is another input that can stack up. Esteemed agroecologist David Pimintel has done a lot of research on inputs into livestock production. Here's one study: <a href="http://www.news.cornell.edu/releases/aug97/livestock.hrs.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.news.cornell.edu/releases/aug97/livestock.hrs.html<p>The Carnegie Melon study I cited on local v. lower meat diet can be found at this link: <a class="fixed" href="http://pubs.acs.org/cgi-bin/abstract.cgi/esthag/2008/42/i10/abs/es702969f.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://pubs.acs.org/cgi-bin/abstract.cgi/esthag/2008/42/i10/abs/es702969f.html&nbsp;<p>Again, my attempt is not to demonize all meat and dairy production. I think that small-scale, pasture-based, localized livestock production in select regions can be defined as sustainable and even ecologically beneficial (in fact, my thesis is also partially on what subsidies are available to graziers and if the playing field is level between them v. CAFOs). However, I am trying to enforce the message that pasture-raised is not a panacea and in order for it to be a sustainable option, overall animal product consumption rates need to be dramatically reduced. In my personal experience here in Vermont, there is a great amount of resistance in the University of implementing a Meatless Monday or to even foster discussion on reducing meat or dairy consumption, despite some of the findings of the university itself. A lot of people in this resistance merely promote pasture-raised and local as the band-aid solution (even though a lot of the meat offered in fact is industrially-produced).&nbsp; I just want to make it clear to people that just because you're eating "grassfed" or "local" or "organic" meat, doesn't make the act in and of itself sustainable, just like buying and driving a hybrid isn't sustainable if you're not going to drive any less. In pure terms of GHG footprint, vegetarians and vegans have a much lighter step than meat-eaters no matter how you cut it. And, most vegetarians I know are very conscious of eating local and organic produce.<p>&nbsp;<p>&nbsp;<p>&nbsp;</p></p></p></p></a></p></a></p></p>
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            <title>Comment #21 by Biodiversivist</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 25 May 2009 16:04:41 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p>Here we go with the insular behavior that is so couterproductive:<p>"...vegetarians and vegans have a much lighter step than meat-eaters no matter how you cut it...."<p>&nbsp;Eggs, and dairy are just as environmetnally intensive as meat. Like meat, they are animal products. It comes down to how much animal product you consume.&nbsp; And your footprint is not "much lighter" than your neighbors. It is only a fraction of a percent different:<p><a href="http://home.comcast.net/~russ676/Graphics/img6.gif" rel="nofollow">http://home.comcast.net/~russ676/Graphics/img6.gif<p>&nbsp;</p></a></p></p></p></p>
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				<p>Here we go with the insular behavior that is so couterproductive:<p>"...vegetarians and vegans have a much lighter step than meat-eaters no matter how you cut it...."<p>&nbsp;Eggs, and dairy are just as environmetnally intensive as meat. Like meat, they are animal products. It comes down to how much animal product you consume.&nbsp; And your footprint is not "much lighter" than your neighbors. It is only a fraction of a percent different:<p><a href="http://home.comcast.net/~russ676/Graphics/img6.gif" rel="nofollow">http://home.comcast.net/~russ676/Graphics/img6.gif<p>&nbsp;</p></a></p></p></p></p>
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            <title>Comment #22 by Clifford Wells</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 25 May 2009 18:07:07 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/22</guid>
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				<p>Oh well, we've come a long way from when Lou answered a nice question from a gentleman who asked if grass-fed beef was "better" than the corn-fed stockyard stuff.&nbsp; Oh yeah, with a picture of dairy cows.&nbsp; And I think Lou gave a pretty good answer for a split decision - there are other reasons why one would like real, grass-fed beef rather than the common grocery store stuff.&nbsp; I would add bovine medecine, E. coli, and other baddies to the list, too.&nbsp; Plus, real beef has a great taste!</p><p>One of the problems we face is that we eat too darn much of the stuff.&nbsp; We all know about different ethnic foods where "a little tiny bit of meat goes a long way."&nbsp; But to demand cutbacks in industrial meat suppliers is the wrong way to do it - we need to educate people first.</p><p>And Bio-D, things like meat, eggs, and dairy products just store the caloric value of grain, grass, and other stuff, however inefficient.&nbsp; If you eat 30 pounds of grain, beans and veggies a day, you're pretty much equal to lesser amounts of meat in a balanced diet that really tastes good, without the farts and bloats.&nbsp; Read Michael Polan?</p>
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				<p>Oh well, we've come a long way from when Lou answered a nice question from a gentleman who asked if grass-fed beef was "better" than the corn-fed stockyard stuff.&nbsp; Oh yeah, with a picture of dairy cows.&nbsp; And I think Lou gave a pretty good answer for a split decision - there are other reasons why one would like real, grass-fed beef rather than the common grocery store stuff.&nbsp; I would add bovine medecine, E. coli, and other baddies to the list, too.&nbsp; Plus, real beef has a great taste!</p><p>One of the problems we face is that we eat too darn much of the stuff.&nbsp; We all know about different ethnic foods where "a little tiny bit of meat goes a long way."&nbsp; But to demand cutbacks in industrial meat suppliers is the wrong way to do it - we need to educate people first.</p><p>And Bio-D, things like meat, eggs, and dairy products just store the caloric value of grain, grass, and other stuff, however inefficient.&nbsp; If you eat 30 pounds of grain, beans and veggies a day, you're pretty much equal to lesser amounts of meat in a balanced diet that really tastes good, without the farts and bloats.&nbsp; Read Michael Polan?</p>
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            <title>Comment #23 by mimi</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 25 May 2009 21:31:37 -0700</pubDate>
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				<p>mimi wishes something could be done about this but the cows just stare right back when mimi tries to tell them it's bad for the climate. the farmers don't seem to want to listen either.</p><p>http://twitter.com/yomimi</p>
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				<p>mimi wishes something could be done about this but the cows just stare right back when mimi tries to tell them it's bad for the climate. the farmers don't seem to want to listen either.</p><p>http://twitter.com/yomimi</p>
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            <title>Comment #24 by enviroperk</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 25 May 2009 21:52:04 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/24</guid>
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				<p>Ok, now I am thinking that if I eat only bean burritos on my coast to coast road trip, due the carbon offset from reducing my horrific steak eating habits, I can travel guilt-free.</p><p>(Try as I may, I still cannot understand how carbon-offsets can reduce CO2 emmissions. But they do make me feel better)</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
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				<p>Ok, now I am thinking that if I eat only bean burritos on my coast to coast road trip, due the carbon offset from reducing my horrific steak eating habits, I can travel guilt-free.</p><p>(Try as I may, I still cannot understand how carbon-offsets can reduce CO2 emmissions. But they do make me feel better)</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
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            <title>Comment #25 by enviroperk</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 25 May 2009 22:05:28 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/25</guid>
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				<p>Once again, I consulted my 80 year old "country-raised" uncle for advice. He says that in "the day", that hogs and cattle were usually slaughtered in the fall and winter months when grains and protein vegies were unavailable. So the animals STORED the food value from the spring and summer. Without refrigeration, the efficiency of the storage was a moot point. Salt and smoke cured meats from the fall would normally last until March. In this area, that was good enough for some legumes to shoot up.&nbsp; He did say they kept a hog or two around for Easter feasting and that by late January the cured pork was only edible by adding it to fresh greens while cooking it. The greens, though low in protein, were abundant all winter. Hence, the strange southern custom of adding ham hocks to all cooked vegetables</p><p>&gt; Protein.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
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				<p>Once again, I consulted my 80 year old "country-raised" uncle for advice. He says that in "the day", that hogs and cattle were usually slaughtered in the fall and winter months when grains and protein vegies were unavailable. So the animals STORED the food value from the spring and summer. Without refrigeration, the efficiency of the storage was a moot point. Salt and smoke cured meats from the fall would normally last until March. In this area, that was good enough for some legumes to shoot up.&nbsp; He did say they kept a hog or two around for Easter feasting and that by late January the cured pork was only edible by adding it to fresh greens while cooking it. The greens, though low in protein, were abundant all winter. Hence, the strange southern custom of adding ham hocks to all cooked vegetables</p><p>&gt; Protein.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
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            <title>Comment #26 by atreyger</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 25 May 2009 22:19:36 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/26</guid>
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				<p>It is apparent that the analysis that points to red meat as being greenhouse-gas intensive, produced by Carnegie Mellon is based on precisely my previous point: that rumination is the primaty reason for the high GHG output. However, if put in the context of ruminant exterminations of the past, this, once again does not appear to be as big of a problem as the study makes it out to be. I believe the numbers of ruminant cattle&nbsp;now (1.5 billion globally) are not drastically different from past numbers, the major difference being the shift in species. Land use change is a much larger culprit.</p>
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				<p>It is apparent that the analysis that points to red meat as being greenhouse-gas intensive, produced by Carnegie Mellon is based on precisely my previous point: that rumination is the primaty reason for the high GHG output. However, if put in the context of ruminant exterminations of the past, this, once again does not appear to be as big of a problem as the study makes it out to be. I believe the numbers of ruminant cattle&nbsp;now (1.5 billion globally) are not drastically different from past numbers, the major difference being the shift in species. Land use change is a much larger culprit.</p>
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            <title>Comment #27 by oracle2world</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 26 May 2009 08:49:39 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/27</guid>
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				<p>Nice article about the complexities of global warming gases.&nbsp;&nbsp; Beef is good, but buffalo burgers are&nbsp;really good and tasty.&nbsp; I see why they were hunted to virtual extinction.&nbsp;</p>
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				<p>Nice article about the complexities of global warming gases.&nbsp;&nbsp; Beef is good, but buffalo burgers are&nbsp;really good and tasty.&nbsp; I see why they were hunted to virtual extinction.&nbsp;</p>
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            <title>Comment #28 by atreyger</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 26 May 2009 09:55:03 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/28</guid>
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				<p>Actually, it was a United States governmental policy to drive bison to extinction in order to eliminate an important food source for Native Americans, with the species saved only by a few persevering ranchers. Skin was the only immediately collected portion of bison, with most of the meat of the millions upon millions of bison was left to rot on the carcass, until bones could be collected for subsequent use.</p>
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				<p>Actually, it was a United States governmental policy to drive bison to extinction in order to eliminate an important food source for Native Americans, with the species saved only by a few persevering ranchers. Skin was the only immediately collected portion of bison, with most of the meat of the millions upon millions of bison was left to rot on the carcass, until bones could be collected for subsequent use.</p>
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            <title>Comment #29 by akubra1</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 27 May 2009 06:07:08 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/29</guid>
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				<p>If you must eat meat then make it kangaroo - check out the BBC ethical man goes vegetarian - cows release 500l methane/day on average; kangaroos are non ruminant therefore a much better option. The meat is also much healthier than beef. I'd rather see Skippy hopping around the paddock though!</p>
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				<p>If you must eat meat then make it kangaroo - check out the BBC ethical man goes vegetarian - cows release 500l methane/day on average; kangaroos are non ruminant therefore a much better option. The meat is also much healthier than beef. I'd rather see Skippy hopping around the paddock though!</p>
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            <title>Comment #30 by laurenmcnees</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 12:05:21 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/30</guid>
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				<p>I would love to see some data on the greenhouse gas emissions of corn production, if anyone knows of any. Then you could add the greenhouse gas emisisons of the amount of corn one CAFO cow eats to their farts/burps emissions, and compare it to the farts/burps emissions of a pastured cow.</p>
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				<p>I would love to see some data on the greenhouse gas emissions of corn production, if anyone knows of any. Then you could add the greenhouse gas emisisons of the amount of corn one CAFO cow eats to their farts/burps emissions, and compare it to the farts/burps emissions of a pastured cow.</p>
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            <title>Comment #31 by swilke</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 13:30:36 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/31</guid>
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				<p>Here is a wild and crazy idea: completely stop eating all animal products. While I do care about the environment, I also give a damn about the billions of sentient beings murdered every year to fill human bellies. Of course I wish all of the animals doomed to become some one's "food" be treated better, but exploitation is exploitation. In the end it does not matter how the animal was treated while alive because they will all die the same horrible death.</p><p>The only beings benefitting from this happy meat, grass-fed, cafe-free, organic, hormone-free, sustainable murder market are the producers, because they can do very little for the animals and charge a whole lot more for the products. The secondary beneficiaries are the consumers, because they can pat themselves on the back and feel like they are doing something good for the animals. You want to do something good for the animals, then stop creating, enslaving, and eating them!</p><p>Enough of the excuses-go vegan!</p>
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				<p>Here is a wild and crazy idea: completely stop eating all animal products. While I do care about the environment, I also give a damn about the billions of sentient beings murdered every year to fill human bellies. Of course I wish all of the animals doomed to become some one's "food" be treated better, but exploitation is exploitation. In the end it does not matter how the animal was treated while alive because they will all die the same horrible death.</p><p>The only beings benefitting from this happy meat, grass-fed, cafe-free, organic, hormone-free, sustainable murder market are the producers, because they can do very little for the animals and charge a whole lot more for the products. The secondary beneficiaries are the consumers, because they can pat themselves on the back and feel like they are doing something good for the animals. You want to do something good for the animals, then stop creating, enslaving, and eating them!</p><p>Enough of the excuses-go vegan!</p>
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            <title>Comment #32 by Clifford Wells</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 16:48:26 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/32</guid>
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				<p>I think the propblem we have is industrialized cattle and beef production, not the source itself.&nbsp; Be that as it may, humans are omnivores - that is, their jaw and digestion system is suited to a combination of plant and animal food.&nbsp; True, some people whith certain cultural, religious, political, or environmental view detest the practice of eating any form of animal product, or at least meat itself.&nbsp; That argument goes back to the ancient Hindus and Jains - by the way, the Jains insisted that even plant matter had "souls" and you had to kill the plant and its soul to consume it.&nbsp; Interesting, huh?&nbsp; Yes, I talk to my plants too!</p><p>What I find even more interesting is that while many consider eating animals as unclean, spreading disease, absorbing toxics, and generally being nasty, fruits, nuts, and vegetables CAN KILL YOU.&nbsp; The recalls over the last 5 years for scallions, spinach, peanuts, jalapenos, were stark reminders that non-meat products can be lethal.&nbsp; So obviously there is no high ground with respect to safety, and the diluted and weak "organic" labeling doesn't mean much except that prices can be hiked.&nbsp;</p><p>I'll still go with natural, grass-fed beef and eat it sparingly as possible.&nbsp; If it kills me, well, I'll at least have a smile on my face.</p>
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				<p>I think the propblem we have is industrialized cattle and beef production, not the source itself.&nbsp; Be that as it may, humans are omnivores - that is, their jaw and digestion system is suited to a combination of plant and animal food.&nbsp; True, some people whith certain cultural, religious, political, or environmental view detest the practice of eating any form of animal product, or at least meat itself.&nbsp; That argument goes back to the ancient Hindus and Jains - by the way, the Jains insisted that even plant matter had "souls" and you had to kill the plant and its soul to consume it.&nbsp; Interesting, huh?&nbsp; Yes, I talk to my plants too!</p><p>What I find even more interesting is that while many consider eating animals as unclean, spreading disease, absorbing toxics, and generally being nasty, fruits, nuts, and vegetables CAN KILL YOU.&nbsp; The recalls over the last 5 years for scallions, spinach, peanuts, jalapenos, were stark reminders that non-meat products can be lethal.&nbsp; So obviously there is no high ground with respect to safety, and the diluted and weak "organic" labeling doesn't mean much except that prices can be hiked.&nbsp;</p><p>I'll still go with natural, grass-fed beef and eat it sparingly as possible.&nbsp; If it kills me, well, I'll at least have a smile on my face.</p>
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            <title>Comment #33 by swilke</title>
			<link>http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 07:27:32 -0700</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-21-on-cow-burps-meat-and-methane/33</guid>
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				<p>Do plants scream or show fear when you "kill" them? Do plants have central nervous systems? Do plants have emotions like fear?</p><p>It should not be about the food killing you, but you killing helpless, sentient beings for your own selfish purposes.</p><p>"If it kills me, well, I'll at least have a smile on my face." Yeah, I bet serial killers have smiles on their faces too while torturing and murdering their victims.</p>
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				<p>Do plants scream or show fear when you "kill" them? Do plants have central nervous systems? Do plants have emotions like fear?</p><p>It should not be about the food killing you, but you killing helpless, sentient beings for your own selfish purposes.</p><p>"If it kills me, well, I'll at least have a smile on my face." Yeah, I bet serial killers have smiles on their faces too while torturing and murdering their victims.</p>
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