<![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Obama’s new mileage rules will be first real step to curb planet-warming emissions]]> Grist Comment Feed en Comment #1 by Christopher S. Johnson http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-18-obama-administration-takes/ Mon, 18 May 2009 16:49:54 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-18-obama-administration-takes/1 Ahhhhhh. To quote Boxer, "Elections have consequences."

Prediction: most cars will be plug-in hybrids in 2016 and will well exceed an average of 42 mpg anyway.

]]> Ahhhhhh. To quote Boxer, "Elections have consequences."

Prediction: most cars will be plug-in hybrids in 2016 and will well exceed an average of 42 mpg anyway.

]]> Comment #2 by scarletlew http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-18-obama-administration-takes/ Mon, 18 May 2009 17:07:29 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-18-obama-administration-takes/2 looks like Obama's firm on going gren. More electric cars in the future too. I hope I could convert my bmw m1 into something electric.

]]> looks like Obama's firm on going gren. More electric cars in the future too. I hope I could convert my bmw m1 into something electric.

]]> Comment #3 by ferrarimanf355 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-18-obama-administration-takes/ Mon, 18 May 2009 20:55:21 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-18-obama-administration-takes/3 Sigh. I'd better get my hands on a Mustang before the standards kick in and we're back in the '70s...

]]> Sigh. I'd better get my hands on a Mustang before the standards kick in and we're back in the '70s...

]]> Comment #4 by Christopher S. Johnson http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-18-obama-administration-takes/ Mon, 18 May 2009 22:56:20 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-18-obama-administration-takes/4 Why? A pure electric Mustang could beat an ICE Mustang off the starting line *any day*. Torque you could only dream of.

http://www.opb.org/programs/ofg/videos/view/56-Electric-Drag-Racing

]]> Why? A pure electric Mustang could beat an ICE Mustang off the starting line *any day*. Torque you could only dream of.

http://www.opb.org/programs/ofg/videos/view/56-Electric-Drag-Racing

]]> Comment #5 by splashy http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-18-obama-administration-takes/ Mon, 18 May 2009 23:27:55 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-18-obama-administration-takes/5 I'm hoping that businesses will spring up that can retrofit existing vehicles to become hybrids. I would jump at the chance to change our Honda Element into a hybrid. That's the only way to get something small, square and roomy as a hybrid that isn't a full sized SUV. For now, you just can't get that. It's either a small car in the Prius or Insight, or a big SUV like the Highlander. The Element has a 4 cylinder engine, which is pretty good, but if it were a hybrid it would be that much better.

Here's hoping!

]]> I'm hoping that businesses will spring up that can retrofit existing vehicles to become hybrids. I would jump at the chance to change our Honda Element into a hybrid. That's the only way to get something small, square and roomy as a hybrid that isn't a full sized SUV. For now, you just can't get that. It's either a small car in the Prius or Insight, or a big SUV like the Highlander. The Element has a 4 cylinder engine, which is pretty good, but if it were a hybrid it would be that much better.

Here's hoping!

]]> Comment #6 by Christopher S. Johnson http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-18-obama-administration-takes/ Tue, 19 May 2009 00:19:45 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-18-obama-administration-takes/6 My Ford Escape Hybrid gets 35 in the City. That's better than a Smart Car! And on old-school evaporative and sooty emissions its cleaner than a Honda Civic.

Additionally, it is one of the very few hybrids that can be easily retrofitted to be a plug-in hybrid. I think only the Prius and the FEH can be done easily.

The back seat goes completely flat with the deck, making for nice cargo room.  Oh and its about $10,000 cheaper than a Highlander Hybrid.

]]> My Ford Escape Hybrid gets 35 in the City. That's better than a Smart Car! And on old-school evaporative and sooty emissions its cleaner than a Honda Civic.

Additionally, it is one of the very few hybrids that can be easily retrofitted to be a plug-in hybrid. I think only the Prius and the FEH can be done easily.

The back seat goes completely flat with the deck, making for nice cargo room.  Oh and its about $10,000 cheaper than a Highlander Hybrid.

]]> Comment #7 by Spence http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-18-obama-administration-takes/ Tue, 19 May 2009 01:00:38 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-18-obama-administration-takes/7 Obama pulls another perfect rope-a-dope on an otherwise natural enemy. I love it. For years the automakers have complained about having to engineer their vehicles to meet both federal regulations and California's tighter regs. So Obama gave them what they asked for, one regulation. California's. 

Be careful what you wish for around our President.

]]> Obama pulls another perfect rope-a-dope on an otherwise natural enemy. I love it. For years the automakers have complained about having to engineer their vehicles to meet both federal regulations and California's tighter regs. So Obama gave them what they asked for, one regulation. California's. 

Be careful what you wish for around our President.

]]> Comment #8 by ferrarimanf355 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-18-obama-administration-takes/ Tue, 19 May 2009 06:55:24 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-18-obama-administration-takes/8 It's not the same without that V8 rumble...

]]> It's not the same without that V8 rumble...

]]> Comment #9 by thinazzabird http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-18-obama-administration-takes/ Tue, 19 May 2009 09:28:07 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-18-obama-administration-takes/9 SO the auto industry has been upset about two standards for blah blah blah- Why?  Is it for them like being told to wipe back-to-front when they got a fundamentally forward momentum wrist-thrust?  The point is that THE TRIVIAL CONCERN of the auto industry MUST BE UNDERSTOOD to be OUR concern about the automoble industry a whole- even regarding the serious aspect of the industry, pollution.  This is because all covert positions when synergetically beheld make nothing work for proffessional panters.  Their function in life is to make people feel greatful that they are not allowed to torture. Obama's adherence to the lift the level on the old dip-stick technique means that all that has been well continues to be well.  A wiser course would be dedication of natural and gasoline reserves to military contingency- but these Goddamned futureless fools could'nt strategize their dipsticks out of a dried tuna-fish box and our way will be had with them very soon. 

]]> SO the auto industry has been upset about two standards for blah blah blah- Why?  Is it for them like being told to wipe back-to-front when they got a fundamentally forward momentum wrist-thrust?  The point is that THE TRIVIAL CONCERN of the auto industry MUST BE UNDERSTOOD to be OUR concern about the automoble industry a whole- even regarding the serious aspect of the industry, pollution.  This is because all covert positions when synergetically beheld make nothing work for proffessional panters.  Their function in life is to make people feel greatful that they are not allowed to torture. Obama's adherence to the lift the level on the old dip-stick technique means that all that has been well continues to be well.  A wiser course would be dedication of natural and gasoline reserves to military contingency- but these Goddamned futureless fools could'nt strategize their dipsticks out of a dried tuna-fish box and our way will be had with them very soon. 

]]> Comment #10 by hapa http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-18-obama-administration-takes/ Tue, 19 May 2009 10:21:57 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-18-obama-administration-takes/10 great but doesn't help lower quintile folks with older cars and access only to used-car pool. need a "manhattan project" (note appropriate narrowness of focus) to greatly increase fuel-efficiency of buses, then big deployment, to soften the blow of high gas/diesel prices when they come back.

]]> great but doesn't help lower quintile folks with older cars and access only to used-car pool. need a "manhattan project" (note appropriate narrowness of focus) to greatly increase fuel-efficiency of buses, then big deployment, to soften the blow of high gas/diesel prices when they come back.

]]> Comment #11 by Royal Enfield http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-18-obama-administration-takes/ Tue, 19 May 2009 10:27:03 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-18-obama-administration-takes/11

 

 

 

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]]> Comment #12 by justlou http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-18-obama-administration-takes/ Tue, 19 May 2009 11:45:56 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-18-obama-administration-takes/12 My guess is that by 2016, unless gas prices get back in the $4.00 to $6.00 per gallon range, there are still going to be too many people choosing the less is more route (light truck category) and that the entire fleet will be dragging near 25 mpg for many years after 2016.  This is not unrealistic considering that the current fleet average is about 20 mpg and the life cycle of autos is getting longer.

 

 

]]> My guess is that by 2016, unless gas prices get back in the $4.00 to $6.00 per gallon range, there are still going to be too many people choosing the less is more route (light truck category) and that the entire fleet will be dragging near 25 mpg for many years after 2016.  This is not unrealistic considering that the current fleet average is about 20 mpg and the life cycle of autos is getting longer.

 

 

]]> Comment #13 by racc http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-18-obama-administration-takes/ Tue, 19 May 2009 16:01:42 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-18-obama-administration-takes/13 Comment #14 by Tasermons Partner http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-18-obama-administration-takes/ Tue, 19 May 2009 16:38:43 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-18-obama-administration-takes/14 "Thus, their current request for a waiver is pretty much moot, but California could decide to petition for higher standards for later model years."

Are we sure of that?  An article in the Detroit Press seemed to indicate that this move would mean that states wouldn't be allowed to challenge the federal standards ever again, even after 2016.

]]> "Thus, their current request for a waiver is pretty much moot, but California could decide to petition for higher standards for later model years."

Are we sure of that?  An article in the Detroit Press seemed to indicate that this move would mean that states wouldn't be allowed to challenge the federal standards ever again, even after 2016.

]]> Comment #15 by diana_l http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-18-obama-administration-takes/ Thu, 21 May 2009 07:23:42 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-18-obama-administration-takes/15 I disagree with the statement "the only viable way to cut CO2 emissions is to require cars to get better gas mileage"...I work for the Transportation and Land Management Agency of Riverside County, and it's a pretty well known fact that as one's MPG goes up, so do miles traveled!!!  We are currently working on a project right now to decrease vehicle miles traveled - another perfectly viable way to cut C02 emissions.  The project is called SB 375 which requires all MPOs in California to decrease vehicle miles traveled by 2020 and further by 2035.  Basically, California keeps on developing open land into urban sprawl, and urban sprawl is not sustainable.  SB 375 seeks to significanlty slow this down and therefore decrease vehicle miles traveled...which will cut C02 emissions!     

]]> I disagree with the statement "the only viable way to cut CO2 emissions is to require cars to get better gas mileage"...I work for the Transportation and Land Management Agency of Riverside County, and it's a pretty well known fact that as one's MPG goes up, so do miles traveled!!!  We are currently working on a project right now to decrease vehicle miles traveled - another perfectly viable way to cut C02 emissions.  The project is called SB 375 which requires all MPOs in California to decrease vehicle miles traveled by 2020 and further by 2035.  Basically, California keeps on developing open land into urban sprawl, and urban sprawl is not sustainable.  SB 375 seeks to significanlty slow this down and therefore decrease vehicle miles traveled...which will cut C02 emissions!     

]]> Comment #16 by splashy http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-18-obama-administration-takes/ Sat, 23 May 2009 03:22:30 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-18-obama-administration-takes/16 Interesting. Do you think you could fit a 3' by 5' painting in packaging that adds about a foot on each side (making it 4' X 6' X .5') in it? That's what we need to be able to do.


Update: I looked it up, and yes it would fit. The problem is it's out of the price range we would have been able to afford. I read one review and the gas mileage is a bit better than what we are getting with our Honda Element, but not as much as you would think with it being a hybrid. Perhaps it weighs a lot more.

Does it have carpeting inside? I hate carpeting - it would be a deal breaker. Too hard to clean.

Not that I'm looking any more, but you never know.


]]> Interesting. Do you think you could fit a 3' by 5' painting in packaging that adds about a foot on each side (making it 4' X 6' X .5') in it? That's what we need to be able to do.


Update: I looked it up, and yes it would fit. The problem is it's out of the price range we would have been able to afford. I read one review and the gas mileage is a bit better than what we are getting with our Honda Element, but not as much as you would think with it being a hybrid. Perhaps it weighs a lot more.

Does it have carpeting inside? I hate carpeting - it would be a deal breaker. Too hard to clean.

Not that I'm looking any more, but you never know.


]]> Comment #17 by Christopher S. Johnson http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-18-obama-administration-takes/ Sat, 23 May 2009 11:24:11 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-18-obama-administration-takes/17 Answer for SPLASHY, Well, it cost me almost $30,000 ($500 a month). I really wanted the realtime readout of milage and that's in a package that adds cost. That is $10,000 cheaper than the Toyota Highlander Hybrid.

The trick with the Ford Escape Hybrid is that it really shines once it warms up. A short trip to the store is not going to get great milage. Also, it does better in urban traffic than highway (although I can get similar performance on highway at lower speeds). It BEATS a Smart Car in City mpg, OK? An average of mid 30's. And more than 35 if I use techniques like coasting to lights, keeping it in electric as long as possible, ect. This is the same exact performance as the Toyota Camry Hybrid.

Also, when it comes to OLD SCHOOL POLLUTANTS like sooty and evaporative, the FEH is off-the-charts-clean. I dont understand everything they did, but things like seals, bladder gas tank, and the fact that it doesnt run the engine when in electric mode and no idling, makes it very-very clean in that respect.

I think you can either custom fit it w/o carpet or you may have to order a third party custom mat.

]]> Answer for SPLASHY, Well, it cost me almost $30,000 ($500 a month). I really wanted the realtime readout of milage and that's in a package that adds cost. That is $10,000 cheaper than the Toyota Highlander Hybrid.

The trick with the Ford Escape Hybrid is that it really shines once it warms up. A short trip to the store is not going to get great milage. Also, it does better in urban traffic than highway (although I can get similar performance on highway at lower speeds). It BEATS a Smart Car in City mpg, OK? An average of mid 30's. And more than 35 if I use techniques like coasting to lights, keeping it in electric as long as possible, ect. This is the same exact performance as the Toyota Camry Hybrid.

Also, when it comes to OLD SCHOOL POLLUTANTS like sooty and evaporative, the FEH is off-the-charts-clean. I dont understand everything they did, but things like seals, bladder gas tank, and the fact that it doesnt run the engine when in electric mode and no idling, makes it very-very clean in that respect.

I think you can either custom fit it w/o carpet or you may have to order a third party custom mat.

]]> Comment #18 by Clifford Wells http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-18-obama-administration-takes/ Sun, 24 May 2009 14:06:45 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-05-18-obama-administration-takes/18 I guess we need all the help we can get, but better MPG on new cars will take years to have an effect.  Reason:  vehicle sales are extremely low in this recession. It's probably not the best time to pass along costs of a thousand or more for better fuel economy, which these kinds of regulations always do.  So I don't have rosy visions of huge CO2 reductions from new car fuel economy standards starting with the 2010 model.

There is some evidence that to help comply with the new CAFE standards, most manufacturers will continue to take weight off the cars.  This involves more use of plastics for fenders and less rigid framing, which could become a safety issue.  Or, as some will find out, a repair bill headache:  the flimsier the vehicle, the easier it is to "total" in an accident.  Yes, I predict that costs will go up quite a bit.

Of course, it's hard to predict new car buying trends or the price of gasoline and diesel, and most of that is mere speculation based on some "reasonable" assumptions, whatever those are.  But I'm simply not seeing a big rush for people to go buy a new car, and don't trust any CO2 reduction numbers.

Interesting comment made above that VMT reduction is equally important as fuel consumption rate, by the way. 

]]> I guess we need all the help we can get, but better MPG on new cars will take years to have an effect.  Reason:  vehicle sales are extremely low in this recession. It's probably not the best time to pass along costs of a thousand or more for better fuel economy, which these kinds of regulations always do.  So I don't have rosy visions of huge CO2 reductions from new car fuel economy standards starting with the 2010 model.

There is some evidence that to help comply with the new CAFE standards, most manufacturers will continue to take weight off the cars.  This involves more use of plastics for fenders and less rigid framing, which could become a safety issue.  Or, as some will find out, a repair bill headache:  the flimsier the vehicle, the easier it is to "total" in an accident.  Yes, I predict that costs will go up quite a bit.

Of course, it's hard to predict new car buying trends or the price of gasoline and diesel, and most of that is mere speculation based on some "reasonable" assumptions, whatever those are.  But I'm simply not seeing a big rush for people to go buy a new car, and don't trust any CO2 reduction numbers.

Interesting comment made above that VMT reduction is equally important as fuel consumption rate, by the way. 

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