<![CDATA[Grist - Comment Feed for Obama lays down plans for high-speed rail]]> Grist Comment Feed en Comment #1 by hpvpaul2 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-04-16-obama-high-speed-rail/ Thu, 16 Apr 2009 12:28:04 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-04-16-obama-high-speed-rail/1 Great idea, but as we have seen in the past, nobody who should use this service will.  Why? They want everyone else to get off their road and get on the rail service.  The only way to make something like this work, is to punish people for driving their vehicles instead of using mass transit.

]]> Great idea, but as we have seen in the past, nobody who should use this service will.  Why? They want everyone else to get off their road and get on the rail service.  The only way to make something like this work, is to punish people for driving their vehicles instead of using mass transit.

]]> Comment #2 by Christopher S. Johnson http://www.grist.org/article/2009-04-16-obama-high-speed-rail/ Thu, 16 Apr 2009 13:37:01 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-04-16-obama-high-speed-rail/2 Does Texas (my home state) still get rail as long as it has a Governor who is threatening to secede from the Union?  How does that work?

Rick Perry might actually need a job on that rail line after the next election.

]]> Does Texas (my home state) still get rail as long as it has a Governor who is threatening to secede from the Union?  How does that work?

Rick Perry might actually need a job on that rail line after the next election.

]]> Comment #3 by racc http://www.grist.org/article/2009-04-16-obama-high-speed-rail/ Thu, 16 Apr 2009 14:24:12 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-04-16-obama-high-speed-rail/3 Comment #4 by Delay And Deny http://www.grist.org/article/2009-04-16-obama-high-speed-rail/ Thu, 16 Apr 2009 15:16:00 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-04-16-obama-high-speed-rail/4 Density of the US doesn't warrant it.

 

]]> Density of the US doesn't warrant it.

 

]]> Comment #5 by racc http://www.grist.org/article/2009-04-16-obama-high-speed-rail/ Thu, 16 Apr 2009 15:48:52 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-04-16-obama-high-speed-rail/5 Well sure if you take the country as a whole but the density among many corridors does.

There is a $9.4 billion dollar line being constructed between Torino and Lyon, regions and cities that have similar populations and are almost exactly the same distance apart as Vancouver and Seattle. The $9.4 billion includes a 32 mile tunnel through the Alps.http://www.infrastructurist.com/2009/04/06/chart-comparing-new-hs-projects-around-the-world/
And the Vancouver-Seattle line is probably one of the lower priorities.
With the Internet and Google, there is no reason why you can't do a bit of research before posting. You'll sound more informed then.

]]> Well sure if you take the country as a whole but the density among many corridors does.

There is a $9.4 billion dollar line being constructed between Torino and Lyon, regions and cities that have similar populations and are almost exactly the same distance apart as Vancouver and Seattle. The $9.4 billion includes a 32 mile tunnel through the Alps.http://www.infrastructurist.com/2009/04/06/chart-comparing-new-hs-projects-around-the-world/
And the Vancouver-Seattle line is probably one of the lower priorities.
With the Internet and Google, there is no reason why you can't do a bit of research before posting. You'll sound more informed then.

]]> Comment #6 by Delay And Deny http://www.grist.org/article/2009-04-16-obama-high-speed-rail/ Thu, 16 Apr 2009 16:33:31 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-04-16-obama-high-speed-rail/6 To expand, yes, density overall (the US is in the top 200 countries of population density, while many European countries are in the top 30) restricts the utility of rail.

So, then you punt and say, what about corridors.   Corridors only work with density at the stations.   But on the Vancouver to Portland route, there is little density.   Real destinations are spread out East and West from the corridor.   So, why build an expensive rail system that goes at best 300 miles and hour, and forces people to go through every stop as well as despoiling the landscape with tracks that inhibit wildlife migration, versus planes that go 500 mph and can take people direct, point to point and have lots of space for car rentals, parking to allow people to get to dispersed real destinations.


The end result like all mass transit systems is that they become their own logic.   If only we could force everyone to live within 500 ft of a light rail station...all problems would be solved!   Put anther way, genius loves a dictator.

 

 


]]> To expand, yes, density overall (the US is in the top 200 countries of population density, while many European countries are in the top 30) restricts the utility of rail.

So, then you punt and say, what about corridors.   Corridors only work with density at the stations.   But on the Vancouver to Portland route, there is little density.   Real destinations are spread out East and West from the corridor.   So, why build an expensive rail system that goes at best 300 miles and hour, and forces people to go through every stop as well as despoiling the landscape with tracks that inhibit wildlife migration, versus planes that go 500 mph and can take people direct, point to point and have lots of space for car rentals, parking to allow people to get to dispersed real destinations.


The end result like all mass transit systems is that they become their own logic.   If only we could force everyone to live within 500 ft of a light rail station...all problems would be solved!   Put anther way, genius loves a dictator.

 

 


]]> Comment #7 by racc http://www.grist.org/article/2009-04-16-obama-high-speed-rail/ Thu, 16 Apr 2009 16:59:31 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-04-16-obama-high-speed-rail/7 Comment #8 by Jon Rynn http://www.grist.org/article/2009-04-16-obama-high-speed-rail/ Thu, 16 Apr 2009 17:43:31 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-04-16-obama-high-speed-rail/8 The money is pretty pathetic, really, but the rhetoric at least is getting to a pretty good point.  Not quite getting men to the moon by 1969, but about as close as we've come concerning rail in a very long time (since the 19th century?).  So let's hope this keeps up, and it may be that Biden is having a very good effect on all of this.

Chris, I guess they could run the rail through oklahoma instead, but I think kate baily hutchison will be an enthusiastic supporter of federal dollars, no?  isn't she a little more plugged into reality?

]]> The money is pretty pathetic, really, but the rhetoric at least is getting to a pretty good point.  Not quite getting men to the moon by 1969, but about as close as we've come concerning rail in a very long time (since the 19th century?).  So let's hope this keeps up, and it may be that Biden is having a very good effect on all of this.

Chris, I guess they could run the rail through oklahoma instead, but I think kate baily hutchison will be an enthusiastic supporter of federal dollars, no?  isn't she a little more plugged into reality?

]]> Comment #9 by marlen456y http://www.grist.org/article/2009-04-16-obama-high-speed-rail/ Thu, 16 Apr 2009 22:25:44 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-04-16-obama-high-speed-rail/9 Yep I agree, but that is probably tougher to do, for Obama. ;) On another note, if more and more people forsake their private vehicles for the public vehicles, there would be a lot less pollution and the environment would be cleaner. Of cousre, people would also save on fuel costs! ;)

]]> Yep I agree, but that is probably tougher to do, for Obama. ;) On another note, if more and more people forsake their private vehicles for the public vehicles, there would be a lot less pollution and the environment would be cleaner. Of cousre, people would also save on fuel costs! ;)

]]> Comment #10 by racc http://www.grist.org/article/2009-04-16-obama-high-speed-rail/ Thu, 16 Apr 2009 23:09:28 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-04-16-obama-high-speed-rail/10 Comment #11 by racc http://www.grist.org/article/2009-04-16-obama-high-speed-rail/ Thu, 16 Apr 2009 23:12:16 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-04-16-obama-high-speed-rail/11 Comment #12 by MN_man http://www.grist.org/article/2009-04-16-obama-high-speed-rail/ Fri, 17 Apr 2009 06:40:35 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-04-16-obama-high-speed-rail/12 I hope this becomes a reality in my lifetime.  There will be lots of obstacles, especially with property rights and just basic logistics.  Consider that the TGV high speed routes are straight as an arrow and have absolutely no grade crossings.  And they are fenced for the most part.  Right now, the train between, say, Chicago and St. Louis is riddled with grade crossings.  So, we can't just improve the tracks and dial up the speed.  Tracks will need to be laid or moved, and that won't be easy given the density in some of these areas.

Overcoming those obstacles will be worth it.  I would much rather take a train to Chicago than deal with airports.  Imagine going straight downtown to Union Station in Chicago and then hopping in a cab instead of battling traffic way out at O'Hare.

]]> I hope this becomes a reality in my lifetime.  There will be lots of obstacles, especially with property rights and just basic logistics.  Consider that the TGV high speed routes are straight as an arrow and have absolutely no grade crossings.  And they are fenced for the most part.  Right now, the train between, say, Chicago and St. Louis is riddled with grade crossings.  So, we can't just improve the tracks and dial up the speed.  Tracks will need to be laid or moved, and that won't be easy given the density in some of these areas.

Overcoming those obstacles will be worth it.  I would much rather take a train to Chicago than deal with airports.  Imagine going straight downtown to Union Station in Chicago and then hopping in a cab instead of battling traffic way out at O'Hare.

]]> Comment #13 by genoagybe http://www.grist.org/article/2009-04-16-obama-high-speed-rail/ Fri, 17 Apr 2009 15:14:18 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-04-16-obama-high-speed-rail/13 Is there no demand for a high-speed line that runs from DC or NYC to San Francisco of LA?

I've always wanted to make a cross-country rail trip, but Amtrak is a waste of time and money.

]]> Is there no demand for a high-speed line that runs from DC or NYC to San Francisco of LA?

I've always wanted to make a cross-country rail trip, but Amtrak is a waste of time and money.

]]> Comment #14 by Andrew09 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-04-16-obama-high-speed-rail/ Mon, 20 Apr 2009 04:29:29 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-04-16-obama-high-speed-rail/14 High speed rail will help create more compact development and discourage sprawl. It is also proven technology that works and that people use. It is better transportation.

Electric cars by decreasing the cost of driving will encourage sprawl and thus more driving. It is unproven technology that in spite of existing for 100 years, practically no one is using today. It has no transportation benefits over current cars. There is no evidence that electric cars will ever be practical on a mass scale and that people will buy them. High-speed rail, transit and cycling are much better options than wasting money on electric cars.

Like the interstate highway system we need to have an entire system designed for the entire country before we spend one cent. Don't us existing rails! These need to be elevated and designed for 250mph to span the many great distances in our country. They can run parrallel to the exiting interstate and avoid creating new right-of-ways.


A message from the great little music of New York Music Festivals community


]]> High speed rail will help create more compact development and discourage sprawl. It is also proven technology that works and that people use. It is better transportation.

Electric cars by decreasing the cost of driving will encourage sprawl and thus more driving. It is unproven technology that in spite of existing for 100 years, practically no one is using today. It has no transportation benefits over current cars. There is no evidence that electric cars will ever be practical on a mass scale and that people will buy them. High-speed rail, transit and cycling are much better options than wasting money on electric cars.

Like the interstate highway system we need to have an entire system designed for the entire country before we spend one cent. Don't us existing rails! These need to be elevated and designed for 250mph to span the many great distances in our country. They can run parrallel to the exiting interstate and avoid creating new right-of-ways.


A message from the great little music of New York Music Festivals community


]]> Comment #15 by greengenie4 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-04-16-obama-high-speed-rail/ Mon, 20 Apr 2009 08:55:38 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-04-16-obama-high-speed-rail/15 Having a domestic high speed rail system would also boost the tourism economy. Just look at Europe and how many people use the Eurail pass when traveling instead of renting a car and having to worry about directions. This decreases the travel time between cities, gives your vacay more bang for your buck while stimulating local and national economies.

]]> Having a domestic high speed rail system would also boost the tourism economy. Just look at Europe and how many people use the Eurail pass when traveling instead of renting a car and having to worry about directions. This decreases the travel time between cities, gives your vacay more bang for your buck while stimulating local and national economies.

]]> Comment #16 by ken1 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-04-16-obama-high-speed-rail/ Mon, 20 Apr 2009 13:30:13 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-04-16-obama-high-speed-rail/16 Perry is a politician. He's co-opting the secessionist movement for who knows what. 

]]> Perry is a politician. He's co-opting the secessionist movement for who knows what. 

]]> Comment #17 by Lakeside http://www.grist.org/article/2009-04-16-obama-high-speed-rail/ Tue, 21 Apr 2009 17:36:16 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-04-16-obama-high-speed-rail/17 I want to be able to put my car or RV on a train, ride to my destination - in my car or in my RV if the trip is two hours or less - just like on the train that goes beneath the English Channel from Paris to London, drive my vehicle off the train and enjoy my visit.  I think we need to restrict the number of miles a person can drive a vehicle in a month or year to force use of public transportation.  Trains need to be efficient, on-time, fast, service oriented and affordable.  Think of the tax dollars to build a mile of road, build an airport and runway, staff the FAA.  Mixing cars and RVs with high speed rail makes good sense.

]]> I want to be able to put my car or RV on a train, ride to my destination - in my car or in my RV if the trip is two hours or less - just like on the train that goes beneath the English Channel from Paris to London, drive my vehicle off the train and enjoy my visit.  I think we need to restrict the number of miles a person can drive a vehicle in a month or year to force use of public transportation.  Trains need to be efficient, on-time, fast, service oriented and affordable.  Think of the tax dollars to build a mile of road, build an airport and runway, staff the FAA.  Mixing cars and RVs with high speed rail makes good sense.

]]> Comment #18 by kim1958 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-04-16-obama-high-speed-rail/ Sat, 25 Apr 2009 13:53:14 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-04-16-obama-high-speed-rail/18 Its a wonderful idea but who is going to pay for it. You and I?

Marine supplies

]]> Its a wonderful idea but who is going to pay for it. You and I?

Marine supplies

]]> Comment #19 by Lakeside http://www.grist.org/article/2009-04-16-obama-high-speed-rail/ Mon, 27 Apr 2009 15:25:13 -0700 http://www.grist.org/article/2009-04-16-obama-high-speed-rail/19 Who pays for everything?  What hurts is paying and not getting.  We put all the money into roads and airports.  Now we are seeing toll roads and bridges taking off because it is so profitable.  Who pays.  We all do.  We need no longer support the auto, tire, oil companies, road builders, etc.  We can afford whatever we want - whatever is the highest priority.  If we want it bad enough, we can afford it.  In the long run it is probably cheaper than continuing what we have.

]]> Who pays for everything?  What hurts is paying and not getting.  We put all the money into roads and airports.  Now we are seeing toll roads and bridges taking off because it is so profitable.  Who pays.  We all do.  We need no longer support the auto, tire, oil companies, road builders, etc.  We can afford whatever we want - whatever is the highest priority.  If we want it bad enough, we can afford it.  In the long run it is probably cheaper than continuing what we have.

]]>