The diet industry, fyi, hoovers up billions of dollars a year (no, not millions), and only makes people fatter, apparently.  Think about it:  Weight Watchers makes its money on repeat customers, so would it still be in business if it was succeeding at helping people lose weight and keep it off?  And in the meantime people are buying all these overpackaged, environmentally destructive, unhealthy "diet" foods, burning up extra gas to go to the gym, etc...

...and it's their weight you're most concerned about?

Let's try this:  People do not choose to be fat, but they can choose to live healthy lifestyles whatever their weight.  Saying it's as simple as going on a diet is discriminatory, harassing, rude, and simply not the case.  Also, check the definition of "overweight"--part of the reason there are so many more "overweight" people out there now than however many decades ago is that the definitions have changed in some cases.  The average weights have gone up because heights have increased, for the most part, which is probably attributable to nutrition, but may be influenced by other factors too (growth hormones in our food?  jury's still out on that, right?).  

I personally fit into a single airplane seat and all that, so I'm not upset about this because of personal discrimination (well, not anymore--for full disclosure, as a slightly chubby kid, I was certainly on the receiving end of more than my share of mean jokes that would never have been tolerated by adults if the subject had been, say, race, but because it was weight no one cared).  I just think it's absurd that things like this are seen as 100% okay.

For me, the "fattening" of America is just one more symptom of our national disease of overconsumption.  Food is just one more fuel that we just can't seem to get enough of - even if enough is already too much.

Obesity is a very serious problem in America today.  The definitions of overweight may well have changed, but if so, that is because new medical data has come to light that determines what is a "safe and healthy" weight.  I've spent years in my career working on drugs for Congestive Heart Failure and diabetes.  In addition to these two diseases that are highly positively correlated with being overweight are cancer, hypertension, atherosclerosis, stroke.

I'm not saying that it is OK to discriminate against people who are overweight.  Perhaps what is happening is a change in the "status" of body weight;  much like we would like Hummers to become uncool for the health of the planet, it is good for overweight to be uncool for the health of the individual.  Not to mention the costs to our economy; while I agree with you that the "diet" industry is for the most part a sham, and a billion dollar sham at that, diabetes alone cost this country $132 billion in 2002 and that number rises every year.

So, no, it's not OK to be mean.  But it's also not accurate to say that "people can live healthy lifestyles whatever their weight."  For the vast majority of people, that simply isn't true.

Being unfit is unhealthy.   A lot of fat people are unfit.  A lot of skinny people are also unfit; many of the latter are smokers.  

Are you telling me a fit person who's also fat is at higher risk of heart disease and cancer than a skinny person who's totally unfit and a smoker?

I'm all for calling a spade a spade, so let's do it.

While I'm not exactly obese, I'm not skinny by any stretch, but I don't smoke.  I have lower cholesterol and blood pressure than a fair percentage of people skinnier than me.  My mother, who was a skinny, fit, vegetarian smoker, dropped dead at 60 of cancer.  The point?  There are always exceptions, and how many there are--how statistically significant they become--depends heavily (pun intended) on how you look at it.

Furthermore, the statistical correlations between fat and disease are not proof of causation.  In fact, there's some evidence to suggest that social issues--discrimination, in other words--is the causal factor much of the time (and no, I can't offhand think of where I could find the stats to link to, but I've read them in mainstream, well-regarded publications, which while it doesn't prove truth, at least proves that I'm not a total nutjob).  

If you're fat, it's hard to get a job where appearance matters, which is to say practically any job, including both skilled and unskilled positions in which appearance is functionally irrelevant but desired by employers anyway.  

If you're fat, it's hard to find professional, well-made clothes that fit well, which can adversely affect your ability to find work, love, etc.

If you're fat, you're likely to be depressed, because you can't find work, love, etc.

If you live alone (other than by choice) and don't have a good job, you're likely to be poor, sick, depressed, etc.  You're not likely to have access to healthcare, or anyone to take you to the doctor when you need to go.

I could go on, but I think that's more than enough.  

Does "under our control" mean, in certain contexts, denying ourselves food?

I mentioned in another thread that I was at the ballet on Saturday, American Ballet Theatre, at the City Center.  It was a lovely program, a beautiful mix: Mozart's Symphonie Concertante, choreographed by Ballanchine, very classical; Virgil Thomson's sweet collection of piano pieces, "Drink to Me Only With Thine Eyes," choreographed by Mark Morris, very modern; and the American classic, Aaron Copeland's "Rodeo," choreographed by Agnes de Mille, light, a clear narrative, gorgeous folk music, delightful.  So it was a terrific program for children; and in fact there were a lot of kids there, mostly little girls, needless to say.  So the question (well, series of questions) entered my head: How does the ballet affect girls and women, psychologically?  How does it affect their sense of femininity?  How does it affect their sense of how their body works, or what their body should look like?  Does the fact that ballet dancers absolutely must have slender figures exert a psychological pressure on young girls?  Is there any correspondence between that pressure and anorexia?

By contrast, in North America, there is very little of masculine identity associated with the ballet that might encourage young boys to pursue an interest in it.  American Ballet Theatre currently has a male dancer from South Dakota; and I cannot help wondering what it was like, growing up in South Dakota, being a guy, and wanting to do ballet.  Dance is an extraordinarily athletic discipline.  One might think it would appeal to boys' sense of masculinity more often.  As it does in other countries, such as Russia, and Cuba.

Chickens deserve our true friendship! So do fish! So do other sentient beings! Let us learn to be kind.

With regards to fat and disease, where a person stores his/her fat is a key indicator of disease risk.  See this page from NIH for several links; the bottom line is that abdominal fat is highly predictive for many disease states. So, while I understand, and don't necessarily disagree, with your points that it is very difficult to separate body fat out from a lot of other social factors (poverty, lifestyle, income, etc., etc.) there are clearer corrolations for belly fat alone than there are for BMI.  To me, this is more difficult to reconcile to a social causation.

My boyfriend carries pretty much all his fat in his belly.  He is very active; a biker, climber, a soccer player, but I worry about him regardless.  Belly fat and waist-to-hip ratio are so highly correlated with some scary diseases that is it hard to imagine he will avoid them all.  Myself, I tend to store fat in my butt; not a thrill in spandex bike shorts, but not nearly as life-threatening.

Don't get me wrong - I think it sucks that fat people are discriminated against, and that every day our media screams at us that everyone on the planet is 5'10" and 125lb.  All I am saying is that there may be a silver lining - smoking used to be cool and in recent years has decidedly moved into the "uncool" category.  While I think it sucks that smokers get discriminated against too, that doesn't stop me from wishing that everyone on the planet who smokes tobacco would stop - now.  If the "uncool" status of smoking saves lives, I'm all for it.

Rather than discriminatory tactics, I wish we could use clear, concise educational tactics to help people with excess fat understand the risks to their health.  I think it all becomes so much more complicated because it is wrapped up in how we look, which is wrapped up in our self-worth, and our societal worth. It was relatively easy to tell people "cut down on salt" or "cut back on read meat" because the message was "excess salt causes hypertension" or "too much red meat causes heart disease" (simplistic statements of course, but bear with me). Hypertension & heart disease are not social pariahs;  being fat is.  Therefore, it is so much harder to launch a campaign saying "eat less" or "reduce your belly."  Even if what you are saying is "excess abdominal fat increases your likelihood of getting diabetes" what people hear is "you're fat, you're ugly, you're worthless."

I wish I could think of a brilliant way to change this.

There are certain things that drive me crazy.  I have a close friend who was diagnosed with Type II diabetes at 29 years old.  This is quite early for Type II; generally it appears in adults in their 50's.  My friend's father, mother and paternal grandfather all have diabetes.  He knew he was at high risk.  Yet at the time of his diagnosis, he weighed over 300 lbs.  I liken it to smoking - with a history like his, to let himself get to that weight is tantamount to deciding to kill yourself.  Slowly, albeit, but an early death all the same.  

His diagnosis was nearly 3 years ago.  All that time I have been nagging him, mercilessly, and yes, cruelly if need be, that he needs to lose weight.  That it is quite literally a matter of life and death.  That if he wants to live to see his young son graduate high school, he had better make losing the weight his number one priority.

Yes, I am a bitch.  But I love him, and I want him around for my lifetime.  There are so many ways that this precious life can be taken from us that are not within our control. To let it slip away, when you could have done something about it, to me is unconscionable.

I'd rather be dead than miserable.

Yes, I'd rather be thin and gorgeous and live a long, healthy life, but being nagged all the time doesn't help, and does hurt, by making being alive a constant trial.

I personally was on every diet that exists between the ages of 12 and 18.  None of them helped.  I used to pray for an eating disorder--I would have preferred the risk of heart attack, tooth decay, and all the rest over being teased for my weight one more time.  

I never lost a goddamn pound on any diet.

I went to college, made actual friends who were actual human beings and complimented the positive rather than attacking the negative, ate whatever the hell I wanted, and have weighed nearly the same since.  I gained a few pounds in college and a few more while my mother was dying of cancer and I was trying to be there for her and do her work at the same time, running a nonprofit organization entirely by myself.  I will neither apologize for nor try to lose those few pounds, because it just plain doesn't work.  This is the size I am now.  Starving myself would make me miserable and would not make me thin, so there's really no benefit to it.

Oh, and you really think belly fat doesn't correlate to social issues?  I beg to differ.  I personally put on weight in my hips, thighs, and butt, and have a relatively small waist, so as hard a time as I have finding clothes that fit, it's at least possible (and I think everyone has trouble finding clothes that fit, so it's not really about me).  A woman with thin legs and a large belly, on the other hand, is never going to find anything that fits and it flattering.  She's never going to feel like she looks good in anything.  If you took my excess weight and distributed it differently, it would look a whole lot worse and hamper my career and social prospects much more than it does.

Then, too, I find my extra weight actually helps my balance because it lowers my center of gravity.  When I sit on a horse, I'm anchored by it.  I've seen a lot of riders with more belly fat and less butt-and-thigh fat than I have, and they all look less comfortable and less balanced than I do.  All fat is not created equal.

   If you can be fit and fat, go for it!!!

   Otherwise, work on the fitness first.  Let the fat lay where it will.

   BTW, a fat person on a bicycle uses less gasoline than a thin person in an SUV.

patrick

My sister, on the other hand, is tiny. Weighs less than 90 pounds, always has, always will. No matter what she eats or what she does. I inherited my mother's Greek peasant body, my sister got my father's build. I have expended untold energy worrying about my weight, starving myself, hating my body and myself for not being able to be thin in a society that hates fat. Today, fat and all, I regret all that energy expended on such a trivial thing. And what's stranger, when I look back at pictures of myself all those years (except after my babies were born when I was truely fat) I looked pretty good. And when I was thin, unless I was too thin, I still thought I was fat. I obsessed about my appearance as much when I was a size 10 as I do now. What a waste! This is my history for what it's worth.

I went to college, made actual friends who were actual human beings and complimented the positive rather than attacking the negative, ate whatever the hell I wanted, and have weighed nearly the same since.

This is exactly why talking about body fat as a medical issue is nearly impossible - as I said above, because it is so wrapped up in our self-image, and everyone takes discussions of body fat as a personal attack.

If I were sitting with a friend, and noticed an oddly shaped mole on the back of her hand, I would probably suggest that she have it checked out by a dermatologist.  She may say "Oh, you think so?" and agree, or she may say "Oh, it's always been that way" and the subject would drop.  The reason I would suggest medical help is because I know that some moles can be cancerous, and I don't want my friend to have to deal with cancer.

If I were sitting with a friend, and he had 50 lbs of body fat hanging over his belt, I might suggest that he see a doctor about losing weight. The reason I would suggest medical help is because I know that abdominal fat is related to increased morbidity and mortality and I don't want my friend to have to deal with disease and/or die.

In the mole scenario, I am a caring friend.  In the body fat scenario, I am thoughtless scum.  Why, exactly?

Let me be crystal clear.  I am not saying, "OMG, you wear a size 14?? How can you stand yourself??"  If warranted, what I am saying "You have a serious medical condition that worries me.  Please seek help."

Kaela

Yes, a doctor can tell me what to eat to reduce calories etc.  As I said already, being on diets does nothing to help me lose weight.  In fact--until my mom was dying and I started to gain weight from stress, sleep deprivation, and eating to keep myself going through it all--I seem to gain more weight on diets than off them.  It's not because i lack the willpower to stick to them, either, because even when I've stuck to them, I've gained weight.  What can I say?  I have a very efficient, very defensive metabolism.  Until the medical establishment comes up with something that will actually address the problem--which is not the fact that I eat!--it's pretty much useless to refer me to a doctor.

The reason it's rude to lecture people about their weight is only partly that it's regarded as invariably tied to a negative assessment of physical appearance.  The other part is that it's a comment on moral fortitude, aka willpower.  If you are thinner than I am, then you must be a stronger person than I am, in the view that claims that I should see a doctor who will help me lose weight.  Overweight is treated as a psychological disorder, really--I can't think of anything but mental illness that's as stigmatized as weight is.  And it's even worse, in some ways; these days we try our best to remove the stigma from depression, etc, reassuring a person who has it that it's not him, it's the depression, as if the depression isn't the real person who has it.  Being fat, though--that's who you are.  You are solely responsible for it, and there's no handy brain-chemistry fix that can separate the two.

You are certainly not scum for wanting to help your friend, but it's unlikely that you can do more good than harm.  By lecturing him, you are almost certainly decreasing the quality of his life, and maybe the quantity, too, if it's making him stressed/depressed.  If skin cancer weren't treatable, and was regarded as shameful, then pointing out a pre-cancerous mole would be better avoided too.  There's nothing all that special about fat, except insofar as we have made it so.

   I went to college, made actual friends who were actual human beings and complimented the positive rather than attacking the negative, ate whatever the hell I wanted, and have weighed nearly the same since.

And you replied:

This is exactly why talking about body fat as a medical issue is nearly impossible - as I said above, because it is so wrapped up in our self-image, and everyone takes discussions of body fat as a personal attack.

Regardless, if we were best buddies, I would not discuss your losing weight at all unless I felt it was a medical concern (i.e. your waist circumference was over 35 inches or you were obese).  When you explained to me that you had tried every weight-loss trick under the sun and nothing worked, I would let the subject drop;  but I would not stop worrying for you. As much as I worry about friends who will not quit smoking or don't wear sunscreen or who have a strong history of cancer in the family.

My friend with diabetes is a different matter. He knows he needs to lose weight, knows that he can lose weight, but simply had not made it a priority.  I tried the tactful, supportive route first - then I went for nagging.  I don't enjoy being a nag;  but I will say that he joined Jenny Craig and has so far lost 40 lbs.  I'm not thrilled with Jenny Craig, or any organized "diet" scenario, especially one that makes you buy their pre-packaged food.  However he has added a walking regimen to his "diet" plan, and I am hopeful and being as supportive as I know how to be because I am really scared that he is dangerously obese.

I agree with you that if there is really nothing to be done about a situation then harping on it is not helpful.  But if something can be done, what kind of friend would I be if I just shrugged my shoulders and let it slide?

But on a more important note - does this mean that now you won't run for President with me?  Just think of the fabulous clothes we could have designed for our big butted-thighed-hipped selves!

Kaela

Sorry about your leg.  Problems with feet and legs can indeed be life-altering.  I used to run pretty regularly, and rather enjoyed it; but lately, afterwards, the pain in my heels rendered me nearly crippled; and the podiatrist that my PCP sent me to had nothing to suggest.  So now, I just take longish walks in the park with Little Dog.  She likes to run, especially when her nose is pointed into the wind; apparently she loves the feeling of her ears flooping up behind her.  So I run along with her for a bit.  But then later, I am reduced to hobbling.

Magnificent story, though.  As Aeschylus teaches in the Oresteia, "pathei mathos," learning comes by means of suffering.  I hope to find the opportunity to read more of your writing.

To Willa: You have the absolutely perfect attitude, regarding body shape and weight, from what I can tell.  I know nothing about riding horses, but obviously you are doing something right.  And no doubt the horses you get to ride, whether in NM or MA, agree.

Chickens deserve our true friendship! So do fish! So do other sentient beings! Let us learn to be kind.

I agree with you that if there is really nothing to be done about a situation then harping on it is not helpful.  But if something can be done, what kind of friend would I be if I just shrugged my shoulders and let it slide?

It's possible you motivated your friend to join Jenny Craig and start walking.  If so, he's a special case.

Also, I'd like to point out that losing weight is astronomically easier for most men than for most women, for a variety of social and biological reasons.  Not that it's easy for all men, certainly, but for most, it seems to be a decision they make that's immediately followed by results, whereas most women, fat or thin, spend their entire lives worrying about weight.

But on a more important note - does this mean that now you won't run for President with me?  Just think of the fabulous clothes we could have designed for our big butted-thighed-hipped selves!

And so far as guys go, regarding losing weight: it would be beautiful if, say, at bedtime on a Thursday, we said to ourselves, "I think I should lose some weight," and then on Saturday morning we woke up, and pranced to the bathroom scale, and declared to the world, "Wow!, I lost twenty pounds!  And, oh!, you beautiful mirror over there, how svelte and sleek I look!"

From your mouth to God's ear.

On smoking: I got my Michael to quit.  He gained a lot of weight subsequently, but I suppose he is better off.

This is life; this is adulthood; this is love.  It hurts.  It hurts real bad.  The fear of losing our loved one is always like this.  Nobody in the "happily ever after" stories ever told us that love was going to be like this.  But it is.

Chickens deserve our true friendship! So do fish! So do other sentient beings! Let us learn to be kind.

But on a more important note - does this mean that now you won't run for President with me?  Just think of the fabulous clothes we could have designed for our big butted-thighed-hipped selves!

I personally feel that no clothing designer should be allowed to sell clothes made for a size 8 fit model unless the clothes are size 8.  That way, a size 1 and a size 16 won't have comically misproportioned sleeves and whatnot.  It can't be that expensive to have a fit model in every size.  It also seems not unreasonable to request clothes that fit people of the same width but different heights, for example by offering tall, average, and petite fits (in tops, too, because people with short legs commonly have short arms, surprisingly enough), and when we are president, I intend to make that the law of the land.

Similarly, no shoe manufacturer shall be allowed to make shoes which only come in one width, and there will be mandatory investment by shoe manufacturers in the  production of women's shoes which are comfortable without looking completely dorky.  Dansko will receive extra points for being ahead of the curve on this one, but will lose them all and more for not offering the aforementioned widths, and for not having a vegan option.

That is all.

It sounds like she's way skinnier than me, though, so I'll have to make her eat some chocolate first or it won't work. :)

In addition, I'd like to vote for the long, medium and petite tops thing.  Some of us have unnaturally long, gangly arms.  This makes it nearly impossible for us to wear your average female-type clothing unless it is 1) sleeveless (a bit impractical in winter), 2) 3/4 sleeved (God bless whoever invented it) or 3) Patagonia.  As much as I love Patagonia, I'd like a few more options.

Also, I'm so with you on the shoes.  If someone invents a size 10 that is comfortable and does not make me look like Bozo the Clown (and of course, is sustainable and all that), we should award them the Presidential Citation for Really Excellent Design.  And a pony.

I'm not so much with the boobs, which is good for the most part, as they pretty much get in the way in my various sports.  I generally get the ass-men though, so it's perfect - we'll get them coming and going!

If you are suffering heel pain after running it could possibly be plantar fasciitis, although it is pretty common so I would be most surprised if your podiatrist did not mention it.  I used to suffer from it quite a bit when I was a runner, and still have bouts from time to time.  

Some common signs of plantar fasciitis are:

-you feel the pain in the middle bottom part of your heel (where the ligament connects)
- it is worse when you first get out of bed in the morning
-gets progressively worse the further you walk/run
-certain shoes bother it more (cause more heel pain)

The plantar fascia supports your arch and hence this used to be called "dropped arches."  You may find that a simple arch-support or orthotic that you can buy at the drugstore will help.  A podiatrist or orthopedic specialist can make a specialized orthotic that often helps or even "cures" the issue.  I used to simply tape up my arches with athletic tape - still do when I play soccer.

A podiatrist should certainly have known all this, though, so either he/she ruled out plantar fasciitis or you might want to seek a 2nd opinion.

Let them know you are concerned, but absolutely no lectures or nagging!  Lecturing, it's the worst.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin