Isn't man an amazing animal? He kills wildlife by the millions in order to protect his domestic animals and their feed.
Then he kills domestic animals by the billions and eats them.
This in turn kills man by the millions, because eating all those animals leads to degenerative and fatal health conditions like heart disease, kidney stones, and cancer.
So then man tortures and kills millions more animals to look for a cures for those diseases.
Elsewhere, millions of human beings are being killed by hunger and malnutrition because food they could eat is being used to fatten domestics' animals.
Meanwhile, some people are dying of sad laughter at the absurdity of man, who kills so easy and so violently, and once a year sends out cards praying for "Peace on Earth".

I only have this one life, so I am going to try my very best to make a positive change. --- The Happy & Healthy Vegan ---

What is the point of this diatribe? It's ironic that you are describing heart disease as a product of meat consumption. Your outrage/aggravation over meat consumption will kill you faster than eating a porterhouse five days a week, guaranteed!  

Chill out Java, rent a copy of The Endless Summer, drink a beer, put some jumbo shrimp under the broiler and find a nice woman for Valentines Day.

Cheers-
Kevin


Stay positive, love your life.

Your outrage/aggravation over meat consumption will kill you faster than eating a porterhouse five days a week, guaranteed!

Gosh, your comments are tad bit off. My heart is fine, especially as I train for my fourth marathon. So you see, my strong heart would be able to kick your ass anytime!  

My "outrage", as you so put it, is merely a reflection of what our society has become, and just because I have taken off the "rose tinted denial" glasses, it does not put me at a higher risk to heart attacks. Infact I am very strong healthy happy person, - that just seems to care! Nothing wrong with that ye Kev!  

"Finding woman" - yeah, about that, .listen your lucky I have not shown this message to my husband of 5 fives! I am not sure if he would want me to find a woman! But as always Kevin, my boy you have jumped the gun and made assumption you have no idea about! Oh did I tell ya, that hubby is former Marine!

I look forward to your next blunter! See ya Kev!


I only have this one life, so I am going to try my very best to make a positive change. --- The Happy & Healthy Vegan ---

The NPS and the federal government have the "Lethal Reduction" plan in place that will cost right around 20 Million that will essentially hire a company to kill a set number of elk and airlift the carcasses out by helicopter.

Now the state (ND) has a plan that since these elk cross onto the surrounding land of the TRNP which is either private or part of the Little Missouri national grasslands they would issue more hunting permits.

Now part of this is that since our Sen. Byron Dorgan is a fairly established senator he cut the NP budget by the amount they had allocated for this 20 million eradication project.

So there is a huge pissing contest going on here between the feds and the state over this issue.  The NPS went and completely fortified the fence to make sure no elk could get out of the NP during the elk season.  All in all it is burrocracy at its worst.

Just a side note Wolves are not the answer here.   We have a recent induction of Mt. Lions that is causing enough havoc with the natural ecosystem.

The same concept applies to any cattle, sheep, goat etc...herd.

If you bring in outside animals you bring in anything they have been exposed to.  

Your "Peace on Earth" comment, by the way, is very well done.  Thanks!

On the re-introduction of wolves: Ultimately, that is obviously the best solution.  But we need to be very careful how to promote it.  It has to be a locally conceived and led initiative, at least in large part.  If it seems to be the idea only of us coastal types, or, worse, of the Feds, it will meet with great resistance.

As much as the National Fish and Wildlife Service deserves criticism in many cases, now and again they have working for them some truly dedicated and enlightened individuals, who accomplish good things.  Regarding wolf re-introduction, see especially Rick Bass's "The Ninemile Wolves," on how a couple of NFWS guys got a lot of people in northern Montana to feel comfortable with a few wolves in their neighborhood -- unlike the heavy-handed and short-sighted state authorities.

But the NFWS structure is easily manipulable, unfortunately, and such virtue cannot be counted on to last.

As for the national parks in question, it should be pointed out that their situations, with respect to human neighbors, are very different.  I do not know the park in South Dakota, but I have been to both Theodore Roosevelt NP in North Dakota and Rocky Mountain NP in Colorado.  The former has lots of open space around it; but the latter has a significantly populated area just on its eastern margin, in the direction of Boulder and thereabouts.  And for all I know, by now (it was over fifteen years ago when I visited it) there has been a good bit of development all around Rocky Mountain.

For that matter, it is not all that far from Denver.  And its high-mountain, alpine ecosystems are very delicate, and already seriously stressed by the large number of visitors the park receives, very many more than go to Theodore Roosevelt NP.  But that is a separate problem from that of the elk, who live in the lower sections of the park.

So, the two issues of elk overflowing a park's borders, and the re-introduction of wolves, will necessarily have to be treated differently in CO than in ND (and probably SD).

Of course I stand alongside all those who have protested that the quick and easy solution, i.e. blasting a whole bunch of elk to death, is not at all satisfactory, and bespeaks a grave moral deficiency.

Elk are IMHO the handsomest of all North American animals.  I have always been happy to see them, in Yellowstone and elsewhere.  And, overpopulation issues aside, I am glad that other visitors to NPs too usually have the opportunity to see them.

Chickens deserve our true friendship! So do fish! So do other sentient beings! Let us learn to be kind.

Now, the political nonsense is quite possibly a result of corruption, with the helicopter company 'lobbying' (don't you love that kickbacks can be explained by 'lobbying'?) some high level fed to take 20$ million of taxpayers' money. Why not increase the amount of hunting permits or lower the price for out-of-staters? I know that I wouldn't want to shell out the typical 350$ that go toward a hunting license for out-of-state residents on top of the plane, lodging, etc to go hunting in ND.

Could you say more about the effect of mountain lions in and around the park?  And also, why do you have reservations about the re-introduction of wolves?

Chickens deserve our true friendship! So do fish! So do other sentient beings! Let us learn to be kind.

There is a certain inherent fear of Mt. Lions around the badlands (prairie lions?).  ND is in its second year of a Mt. Lion hunting season that ends next month and the quota of lions in the badlands area (5) was filled within the first 2 months by hunters.

We keep getting told by the powers that be (GNF) that the lions are transient and there is no resident population but year after year there are more and more incidents between them and humans.

The GNF and the park service will never admit it but there is already a small resident population of wolves in the state so I am not totally against an re-introduction. That being said I do know the land and the economy around the park (the LM grasslands) which is either oil or cattle ranching.  As we all know ranchers and wolves don't exactly mix.  That is my reservation.  The same fight that is fought every time wolf introduction is talked about.

Link Dump on the elk and mt.lion:

http://www.bismarcktribune.com/articles/2007/02/22/news/s ...

http://www.bismarcktribune.com/articles/2006/12/03/news/l ...

That is why, the more I think of it, the more it seems that re-introducing wolves would be cruel to the individual wolves: sooner or later they, or their children, would get into trouble with the surrounding people.

And transplanting the people would seem to be out of the question.  It would certainly be difficult to turn the inhabitants of SW ND into refugees, many of whom no doubt participated in winning for the state of ND the Guinness record for Snow Angels, according to the Bismarck Tribune.  : )

SolidJack,
thanks for the articles, which I found interesting and informative.  At the top of the one on mountain lions, the photo of that sweet cat in the tree is so charming, that I can scarcely imagine a young North Dakotan child could ever forgive his or her father for going out with a gun and shooting one dead.

Just on the basis of that article, though, and another more recent one there about a mountain lion caught in a bobcat trap who was so severely injured that the experts thought it was best to euthanize her, I do not get the sense that the relatively recent presence of mountain lions is causing "havoc" to any ecosystem.

Rather, as might be expected, there is a fair amount of electric excitement among many people, leading to some good sightings but a lot of more fanciful and unreliable ones too.

Here in the Northeast, where the atmosphere is not so charged regarding the presence of predators, there have indeed been a small number of credible sightings of mountain lions.  But state wildlife officials have not been willing to confirm anything.  It reminds me of the Feds suppressing reports of UFOs in "Close Encounters."

Being remarkably stealthy, resourceful and adaptable, and whose original range was nearly the entire Western hemisphere, mountain lions might turn up anywhere.  But whether they choose to stay long in any place is another matter.  So far as I know, a small number might certainly settle down in ND, without necessarily making their presence known.

Back to the Elk: They too had a huge range, once upon a time, including the Prairie States.  So it seems there ought to be some people somewhere out there willing to take in a small number.  What about the Indian reservations?

Or is the risk of brucellosis constantly going to freak out the ranchers?

Once again it is human beings who are the problem.  Basically we have reduced all the outdoors to either our backyards or our zoos; and then we whine because we cannot get the animals to move around the way we want them to, so we just kill them when they upset our pretty arrangements.

Chickens deserve our true friendship! So do fish! So do other sentient beings! Let us learn to be kind.

As for your husband, I think Marines are great. My best friend is a Marine.

Stay positive, love your life.

I remind them that cougars are back too, here in northern Wisconsin.  And they can silently leap 50 feet.  And feral pigs, one was shot on the trail this fall just as we ran by.  The wolves are likely to keep the cougars and hogs at bay.  

The deer are over populating here because of human feeding and food sources.  Not the elk yet, they were just recently reintroduced.

Check out this on the Grand island Trail Marathon, my first marathon last summer.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog/_archives/2007/11/7/ ...

  One of the hardest because of the beach sand sections, root and rock strewn trails, and hills.  

Clog an artery Kevin, hehey.

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin

Imagine hundreds of eco-protestors all running in cadence and singing out, the police would no doubt set down their riot gear and join in.

I don't know, but I been told.

Barack Obama loves clean coal.  

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog John Schneider, Northern Wisconsin

I could write many comebacks. However, Kevin, I really don't care about your anti vegetarian / vegan rants. I have been a vegetarian all my life, and now a vegan. I understand that my efforts may not be prefect nor earth changing. However I will know I tried my best. I tried my best to limit cruelty to animals, my best to be in good health, my best for the environment and next generations. And maybe that is what life is about, "trying your best". And sadly I do not see that momentous of care nor effort of trying in many people.

Trying my very best = being positive and loving life.

I wish you a very happy Valentines day. I hope in your heart, you are not so quick to degrade a more peaceful and kinder life style.

Respectfully
JavaEarth


I only have this one life, so I am going to try my very best to make a positive change. --- The Happy & Healthy Vegan ---

Wood Hens, Wild Cats, Mountain Grouse, Flying Squirrel even regular squirrels need a tree. Even the ol Possum with its prehensil tail needs a TREE to hang from.

If they put Elk on all the flat land they have provided us by stripping coal and Mountain Top Removal and Valley Fills we will have a herd that will dwarf the Rocky Mountain States.

So what ever you decide to do to eradicate the Elk problem don't worry we can spare you a few if you drive the herd population down to far.

We might even trade you a few for some Mountain Grouse.

Sorry, probably not indiginous to your area, what about a trade on some prarie chickens? We have plenty of high plateau flat land back in East Kentucky, sewn in reclaim grass. All provided by Mountain Top Removal & Valley Fills.

The eons of time and nature was good to us down here. It was not until we become civilized that destroying our habitat become fathomable or fashionable.

Anyway, you make some excellent observations, PR, about wildlife, and curious attitudes about animals.  That is mighty skunky of the coal mining people, to destroy mountains and forests, then claim to be nature-lovers just because they manage to introduce some new animals into the radically altered landscape.

Chickens deserve our true friendship! So do fish! So do other sentient beings! Let us learn to be kind.