Comments Jon has made

I still don't buy into it [hydrogen]

I still don't see why the argument of Hydrogen vehicles is still going on. There are some hard facts that need to be brought up with Hydrogen. For one it's the energy density. To power a car with hydrogen you need a fair amount of it. The best hydrogen cars of today are still only getting in around 150 miles to the fill. An electric gets this range at a fraction of the cost (yes. the PEM membrane based fuel cells are EXPENSIVE). Then there is the strong argument regarding the infrastructure. Who is going to build all of these fueling stations? We do have an electrical grid. And YES, if we ALL switched to electrics tomorrow we would have some issues with generation and distribution, but it takes time for people to get on board and adapt so I am positive that solutions will be made. One other interesting note is that most people can and would be charging vehicles at night (when sleeping) or around the middle of the day (while at work) when there is generally a surplus base load. Many people don't realize that you cant turn down the juice on a coal or nuke plant based on demand. So there is always extra power over the course of the night. Other solutions include generating your own power via renewable sources (solar, wind, hydroelectric) on-location. I know of people who already charge EV's off the grid at home. I am guessing that this would be more efficient then creating hydrogen on site considering the direct losses in electrolysis?

You bring up the point that hydrogen is fairly abundant. But keep in mind that hydrogen is only an energy carrier (like a battery) and that it still has to be produced in some way. It is a fairly energy intensive process to use electrolysis, to extract it from natural gas or from coal (steam reforming). With any process, you incur efficiency losses. Picture it as adding another middle man between the coal plant and your car. At least with batteries you are taking a direct path without shaking hands with more players. So why not just take that initial electricity (energy) and put it into a battery bank of LiIon's? Seems simple.. no? With hydrogen you have to produce, store, transport and distribute (via truck?) and then build the gas pumps. It's no wonder Shell and other Oil and Gas companies are pushing it.. it's the same game that they play now!  

I believe you are a bit misguided when it comes to  the lifetime of batteries too. 3500 every 5 years?   Battery technology has come a long way since the days of lead acids. NiMi and LiIon's have a life of 10+ years now when maintained. I have yet to hear of a fuel cell that has that kind of track record. One could argue that batteries loose efficiency in cold temps, but don't forget that fuel cells suffer from the same problems.. even ICE's do.

What about efficiency? Fuel cell's have an efficiency that is better then the best gas cars which come in at 40% max. Fuel cells are 50-60% efficient.. but electric is 90%. Thats a BIG difference on it's own. And thats after you have to source the energy.

So lets get to hard numbers here. Dollars. Is hydrogen going to win over the consumer when the cost of the energy is more then that of gas? When the cost of the technology is VERY expensive (Pallidium costs $328 usd/oz! Platinum.. im not so sure) Currently, the cost of a fuel cell would have to come down LOT to make it viable for the every day Joe. I personally cant afford a half million dollar car.

Anyways.. yes I do like electric vehicles. But I too have done a LOT of research into Hydrogen cars and technology. I know people who work at the companies developing Fuel Cells and have spoken to them regarding the technology and its future and even THEY will tell you that a consumer product (car) is a long, long ways off. It does hold some promise, but not in the automobile sector as of yet. Currently the only real demand for fuel cells is for forklifts as it provides a quick and efficient means of refueling and doesn't give off the emissions, but even that is a changing landscape.On We will wonk you posted 2 years, 10 months ago 18 Responses