Comments glowingsponge has made
Moore is Less
As an ex Greenpeace staffer back in the times when Moore and his board were in charge in the Vancouver Chapter of GP, I can attest to the fact that Moore destroyed Greenpeace as a movement.
Minor Details:
The Vancouver board was caught in a $100,000 cocaine scandal that made it all but impossible for them to do any fundraising. They went after the San Francisco chapter of GP, where I was on staff. We did them a fundraiser, to help them out. They used the money GP-USA raised for them to file a trademark lawsuit against us, and the rest of the world. Back then GP was set up by chapter and were independent of each other.
If you ever get a chance to confront Moore in one of his public PR operations, ask him about the cocaine problem on the Vancouver board in 1979!
This fake eco-hero has been called a Judas and lier by real GP people.
For a lot of details google Harvey Wasserman. He's done several articles on Moore.
Note all dedicated support posted here in his defense!!! Remember, only the corporate media is making nuclear power the only option we are supposed to be talking about.
When you start hearing about all the available options then you know we're finally getting a fair look at the alternatives available for the coming energy nightmare our shortsighted consumers oriented country has been trapped into. Here's one European list prioritized by cost and environment:
1 Fuel switching
2 Appliance efficiency improvements
3 Industrial CHP (Congeneration)
4 Lighting efficiency improvements
5 Small-scale CHP (Cogneration)
6 Cooking efficiency improvements
7 Service sector space heating
8 Advance Gas Turbines
9 Water heating
10 Industrial motive power
11 Domestic space heating
12 Country-wide CHP (Cogneration)
13 Renewables
14 Process Heat
15 Industrial Space Heating
16 Nuclear
17 Advanced Coal TechnologyNote nuclear right at the bottom next to Coal!
Nuclear has Moore Baggage than the queen of England!
Anybody seen a good list of all the dirty laundry on nuclear? When all the pork powered spin is carved away, the issues just grow and glow.On Patrick Moore proves to be -- gasp -- a nuclear shill posted 2 years, 6 months ago 13 Responses
N-Waste is a bottomless scandal
The big picture on US nuclear waste is in need of another major review similar to the one done by Bartlett and Steele in November of 1983 for the Philadelphia Enquirer. What would later become an award winning book, it documented the scale and scope of the nuclear waste debacle across the United States. Imagine a major newspaper today printing a 68 page insert of the Sunday paper dedicated to documenting the n-waste scandals nationwide and that would be what "Forevermore: Nuclear Waste In America". Would that happen today?
The only similar media event ever to occur was the Seattle Times weeklong full front page expose in the late 80's of the dozens of catastrophies and scandals at Hanford. That event helped to launch a nationwide battle that came close to closing DOE, but only resulted in the feds agreeing to spend over $100 billion to cleanup dozens of contaminated DOE sites across the country, that under Bush have now all but been greenwashed by Bush's DOE administration. Or at least until yesterday's ruling by a judge ordering the DOE to get the cleanup right in one of the local ongoing cleanups in So Cal...
Imagine, I can still leaf through my copy of the original sunday pullout and see many of the very same issues that still confront the industry today, like the Hanford HLW liquid waste farm, which is part of Natalie's presentation, and will still be confronting us 10,000 years from now!
The modern era of bottom line journalism is a far cry from the occasional blockbuster pieces that would show up once or twice a year in the mainstream press 25 years ago. Let's just say that the corporate media today has made Homer Simpson more than just a household name.
But don't give up yet! Once in awhile we find some serious journalistic event like the recent series in Denver documenting the tragic reversal of how Bush has closed off health benefits for nearly 3 out of 4 DOE workers (that's over 75,000 workers that have applied for help) suffering from health impacts linked to their work. The Rocky Mt news has done a whole series of stories on the recent attempts by workers to get benefits...
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,129 ...
A year ago residents near Rocky Flats won a $350 million settlement from impacts of the plutonium pit facility.
But here's the latest and most bizare turn of the military industrial complex's screw...
At the end of the year, it came out that the DOE had very likely, purposely irradiated workers health records at the Mound Ohio site and then had over a hundred boxes of these records buried at a nuclear waste dump in New Mexico. When this came out publicly, there was no national coverage of this event, but it did get a bit of local coverage with a call for DOE to spend millions of dollars to dig up the documents. Just think for a moment, what kind of slime would nuke and bury the health records of workers in an attempt to keep them from getting health benefits? What else would somebody like this do?
here's the source title if you wanna check it...
Dayton Daily News: Former Mound employees, advocates question destruction of records
dated 1-7-7
Maybe contaminate people as well? Nooo... Well, actually yes we did and the scandals that former Senator John Glenn uncovered of how doctors working for the DOE purposefully exposed citizens without their knowledge or consent to radiation has now been topped by the disclosure at UK's reprocessing facility in Sellafield where there is now a major scandal about missing body parts of workers at that highly controversial and HIGHLY contaminated facility, that Scotland has been trying to shut down.
Here's a recent link to that scandal
http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/viewarticle.aspx?id=493 ...
Or a really hot whopper in Japan where the press just caught the nuclear utilities lying, that's covering up covering up accidents. The headlines blared 10,000 problems covered up by the nation's utilities...
http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/national/20070406TDY02006.htm ...
And if such coverups weren't supposed to happen in the U.S. you can see a short expose online of a book called Licensed to Kill, documenting how our friendly electric companies have done the same here...
http://www.nirs.org/reactorwatch/licensedtokill/licensed2 ...
My favorite is what these guys did at Diablo Canyon with one of the last major populations of Abalone. After the DOJ was ready to file for a $14 million settlement with PG&E, our buddy Bill Clinton had the fine dropped.
So the moral of part I is, can you trust big governments or big companies to do the right thing, other than force you to pay more for less?
But back to the n-waste problem.
Only Russia has worse standards in the industrial world for waste standards. Our laws were all written over 25 years ago by the nuclear industry with no real changes in standards since. Literally every dump this country has ever put nuclear waste into has leaked.
For an example, when there was an attempt to build a low level waste dump in California, U.S. Ecology got the okay to dig an unlined hole in the ground, with a clay cap and just start throwing anything hot in, from Class A through C wastes. Class C llw can include very hot stuff like plutonium or even small amounts of transuranics, just as long as its not a spent fuel rod, its LOW LEVEL WASTE!!!!
Across Europe and Canada, waste standards are far more strict. In Canada, the waste goes into a monitored retrievable above ground facility.
Back in 1982, the U.S. mandated the construction of 13 regional llw facilities, so that commercial waste producers could get rid of their liabilities at a DIRT cheap price. Today, not one of those dumps were ever opened due to public opposition. (Nimbyism according to nuke mongers)... Even W. was forced to block a dump in Texas under public pressure. Why do we have a law on the books that allows nuclear waste producers to dump wastes on the states, transfering any of their liabilities to the public?
The waste laws were written back when ALARA ruled. Today, ALARA (AS Low As Reasonably Achievable) is a joke. In 1988 the commission who was in charge of monitoring global dose standards based on Hiroshima and Nagasaki bomb survivors came out with technical results showing that radiation impacts were between 4 and 16 worse than previously thought. The UK immediately increased its safety standards 4 fold, but our good buddies in the Reagan administration decided to ignore the findings, still leaving us with ALARA, or should I be more specific, what ever you wanna budget is okay.
There is a real reason why nuclear waste is the achilles heal of the nuclear industry. If republicans in Nevada are Nimby's then these creeps are all out to dump it on minority communities (Yucca Mt. is being pushed on lands disputed by the Shoeshone tribe), like what they tried to do with the Skull Valley indian tribe in Utah. They've found one man willing to take millions of dollars so that utilities can use his tribal land outside of Salt Lake Utah to store spent high level waste. That war is currently over, but vampires never die do they. The battle has made republican run Utah right next to Nevada, the one of the two biggest opponents of nuclear dumpers in the country. And you wouldn't know it unless you have a subscription to the Salt Lake City Tribune or the Las Vegas Sun.
Elsewhere on Grist
http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2007/5/3/102117/6965we get the baited line, why are activists only concerned about radiation from nuclear power?
What about coal radiation?
You have Imhoffe and Limbaugh telling million's in the league of Homerdom that environmentalists are opposed to all forms of energy. We're NIMBY's if we don't accept the waste, and hysterical if we get passionate with them. And they tried to get away with the lie that Patarick Moore is an environmentalist or a founder of Greenpeace who supports nuclear power.
Let's face it, once its built, its gonna run. Only two times (Rancho Seco and Trojan) has the public succeeded in shutting down an operating nuke or for that matter almost any other electric generation facility. The battles were vicious affairs and took years.
Should we be demanding the closure of coal plants? That's why the Sierra Club originally endorsed nuclear in the 1960's. They've learned their lesson, that rhetoric by an industry who does whatever it wants and usually gets away with it, is capable of anything if you let it!
Imagine there probably isn't a utility company in the country that hasn't had an employee killed on the job. But it was all just accidental right! Anybody see a movie about what happened in a small town in California with Julia Roberts as the star?
Do you think anyone other than a corporation can get away with murder and just pay a fine? These corporate killers have a clean slate every time a news story is written about them. Imagine, if the local media started a column with a list of all the accidents, health impacts to their workers, bad rates, Ken Lay maneuvers, etc. that happened to the utility prior to introducing the latest rate increase?
yep close them coal plants down and replace em with new cleaner coal plants. Us dangerous types that want stuff like that aren't gonna be the ones that get on NPR, 59.5 minutes or GE's pronuclear NBC. That was tried, we can't even get a program to cover the mountain cropping going on today across the Appalachians, let alone any kind of serious help for coal miners. Give me a break, Please, remember, only rhetoric by industry paid flacks must be taken seriously.
High level wastes, mill tailings, mixed wastes, transuranics, u-238 gasses, HEU, liquid slurpies from hell, you name it, they did it, and don't have any answers other than dumping it on Nevada, or at the WIPP facility. We used to call this kind of slam "Out of site, out of mind". dooh!
Lastly, there's gonna be some gigantic fireworks just around the corner. SC just passed a law that refuses to allow wastes from outside their compact area, meaning wastes from the rest of the country will soon have no home... There's gonna be a huge fight and right now, there isn't a single place in the country that wants to become a bonafied national sacrifice area for everybody else.
Oh, yeah, Ronnie Reagan used to claim back in his pre-Limbaugh radio days, that he could store all the nuclear waste produced in the country in his Garage. We never did find out if tried to do it after he moved into the whitehouse a couple of years later. I've heard its got a big garage for nukes somewhere underneath.
On When it's the Bush administration talking about Hanford posted 2 years, 7 months ago 9 ResponsesThe debate has yet to really start.
There was a recent spate of activity in California where there was an attempt to reopen the state to new reactor development. The push failed. The same deals you hear from any old car salesman were endlessly pushed by the most of the mainstream media outlets.
In the SF Bay Area, where they are especially leery of allowing any kind of serious public debate on energy issues, we were given the usual out of town experts, in this case all of them on the "antinuclear side" were from NRDC, who were pushing the same eco soft line about letting the market decide. Its a really great line, but since when have we ever seen a politician ever not play for pork? I don't care what party your from, you imagine those lobbyists all agreeing to miss pork even on friday?
Yes, it would be nice that everybody played fair, and we were all given some kind of equal time in the public's eye. Unfortunately, anyone who has spent more than a bit of time two decades ago on this issue knows what's up with the game being played today.
As an analyst that watched over 20,000 nuclear stories last year, WE ARE being led down the same bridal path by the media that they did with Iraq!
We are all supposed to be far more sophisticated today online when it comes to being hip, but the buz flies blow both ways. I can bet you, if you spend more than a few minutes looking around, you will find sites all over the place calling Patrick Moore the founder of Greenpeace, or even worse, how Greenpeace is now pronuclear... The real problem is that nearly 90% of most news stories covering nuclear issues are localized, so what's happening in Texas is a whole different can of worms than what's up in Vermont, or California.
Yesterday, for example there was nearly a dozen pronuclear articles in papers across the country, nearly all of them with basicly the same localized nukes are "the only sollution that can save us" spin.
Where are you gonna read a story that asks the question "Would you buy a used nuclear car from George Bush after what he did to this country with Iraq?" For every news story that makes an attempt at balancing the issue, there are 10 going full blast with their "nuclear doesn't produce any CO2 gasses lie." Oh, no, you mean they do? Yes, and there are real bonified studies, never before done in the U.S. to prove it!
Here's the problem, as we really do start to get close to having a serious public debate about the issues, the leadership of both the democrats and republicans have already made up their pork barrel minds. We are all supposed to be simpletons, just like Homer Simpson and never blink once that there might be other options that have been cut out of the global warming option frame, now so totally linked with the climate change debate, you would think that pronuclear activists really gave a shit about the issue, rather than just using it to promote their latest hot nuclear models.
When Europe had a serious debate on global warming they came up with 17 different options on how to deal with the crisis. Hmmm.. Nuclear was number 16, right above Coal, at the bottom. Are we gonna hear about this in our 8 second sound byte culture? Its not time to be fair about the nuclear option, it never has been. They are gonna frame the debate Nuke R Us... simple and sweet.
If you don't take them on and make far more serious demands, we will end up once again with a whole new generation of reactors, using the same line as last time. The only problem is that we've all forgotten they used the same line on the public 40 years ago as the answer to coal as they are doing this time. Why is it that coal is doing better now in the big mix than they were 40 years ago? Let's have the nuke industry have a show down at the okay corral, with the winner taking home the contract. Hmm. they won't even show that one either will they.
On Feb. 11th, 1985, Forbes magazine called the nuclear industry the greatest financial disaster in American history! And you wanna make a deal with the Kenny Lay's best buddy? Since when do we have the full story of what happened in California, let alone the costs!
For most of the last 30 years renewables and energy conservation have been the public's most popular energy sollutions, Yet renewables aren't taken seriously outside of a few regions of the country. Why could Texas with less than half the population of California use just as much energy?
Why, In California, we actually got an answer to this in the middle of the 2001 energy invasion from Texas. The folks that own power plants and sell us power will do everything in their power to oppose renewables and conservation cause its not in the interest of their bottom line. Or even worse. Here's story of how they actually killed the popular programs when nobody was looking...
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle ...
The nuclear debate, if it has to be had once again , its that nothing new has changed. The arguments in the fight are now classic, and go back decades. The man who was considered public enemy #1 against the nuclear power industry a generation ago, Amory Lovins is at it again with the current roundtable debate being held over at the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists site. Have you seen him or Helen Caldicott on with the same kind of footing that the Judas of Greenpeace has (patrick Moore) been on?
http://www.thebulletin.org/roundtable/nuclear-power-clima ...
One of Greenpeace's strongest spokespersons, Harvey Wasserman has published his latest arguments here. You seen him on NPR lately?
http://www.freepress.org/columns/display/7/2007/1535
In one of the most important shifts in the issue, we now find the Council on Foreign Relations putting out a report questioning the Bush push and its wild eye'd claims that nukes can solve everything, including the two faced bigotry of our Iran no-nukes strategy.
http://www.upi.com/Energy/Analysis/2007/04/23/analysis_re ...
In one of the better peaks at the problems of our fearless leader's agenda, we now have the Institute of Policy Study's (and other groups like the GAP) analyisis of Bush's Faustian plutonium economy with the GNEP carrot to build nukes all over the world.
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2007-04/ifps-wgc04 ...
Then we have those bloody pro nuclear Greenpeacer's with their just released report on the economics of nuclear power. Damn, if they have turned pronuclear, what a job they did on Blair's attempt to push a new generation of nukes there, with their lawsuit that killed the whole UK push dead in the water. Have you heard the latest? The UK is now awash in a huge scandal over missing body parts of former nuclear workers.
http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/press/reports/the-economics ...
If really wanna know what's up on this issue, there are resources. If you wanna take a peak at the daily broadside of nuclear news worldwide. You should go to the republican state of Nevada's official website where they have been fighting to kill Yucca Mtn for the last 15 years, where you will find all the nuclear news in english, plus if you look closely an RSS feed to make it go down a bit more smoothly.
http://www.state.nv.us/nucwaste/whatsnew.htm
A cheap car salesmen always wears power blue ties and looks just like someone all of us Mad Magazine fans enjoyed as a kid... Let me tell ya about a deal I got in the back lot...
You buy, it you will be trapping us all into the Texas styled power contracts that IBM thought were gonna make them rulers of computers, until microcomputers came along.
Just think of it this way, why rent your electricity from snarky rich dinasaurs when the next generation of micropower technology is just around the corner that will allow you to own your power source. Micropower, if it isn't waylaid by the hysterical utility types who are terrified of the coming economic groundshift away from billion dollar baseload power plants that keep them in blue ties and Hummers, is gonna be the coolest thing coming!
Hang onto your hats ya'll haint seen notin yet!On A good argument posted 2 years, 7 months ago 13 Responses