Comments TomCasten has made

  • An acceptable path to climate change mitigation will emerge once all parties to the discussion - Our President, other world leaders, all the pundits - recognize that efficiency is the key that allows profitable carbon reduction. Non-fossil energy services are far from cost effective, and burying the carbon from inefficient power plants is a brain dead approach. Society can save money and lower CO2 by rewarding increased efficiency of generation of heat and power and increased appliance efficiency. No other path to cleaner energy pays the dividends available from doubling efficiency. Happily, there is plenty of room for improvement. In 1900, the U.S. converted 3% of all fuel's potential fuel to useful energy services, wasting 97%. A century later, we convert 12% of input energy potential to useful energy services, still wasting 88%. See Robert U. Ayres work for confirmation. Proven technology could easily double the useful energy services from each unit of energy, cutting input energy (fuel) and CO2 in half while supplying the same energy services. Our electricity system, which accounts for 40% of US CO2, delivers only one third of the work potential of the fuel it burns, and has not improved since 1960. When this third of the fuel's potential arrives at users, various appliances then waste another 35% to 94% in converting the electricity to useful energy services including heat, light, chilling, and refrigeration. Incandescent lighting, for example, delivers 2% of the potential energy in the fuel. By contrast, florescent bulbs fed by modern combined heat and power plants deliver 10% of the potential energy in the fuel, a 5 to 1 improvement with proven technology. We can double the overall conversion efficiency of fuel to useful energy with proven technology, by simply replacing our aging electricity-only generation fleet with distributed generation near thermal users that recycles the otherwise wasted heat. The challenge for the G 20 is to ignore the hype offered by technology and fuel peddlers in support of subsidies to their products and instead remove barriers to efficiency and encouraging rewards to improved efficiency. Reward fossil efficiency of energy services and let unleash markets to raise the bar. The G-20 nations have two choices: 1) dump more taxpayer funds down various rat holes to subsidize someone's favorite technology, which developing countries will not emulate, or 2) modernize governance to reward and dramatically improve efficiency. The later path will stimulate vastly better generation and appliances, which will then enable lower cost energy services for the developing world. The growing efficiency in the developed world will force manufacturers everywhere to follow suit in order to remain competitive. Tom CastenOn Obama's climate speech to the U.N. posted 2 months, 1 week ago 6 Responses
  • Steve: The logic of ending fossil fuel subsidies is profound, albiet against the universal desire of all people to obtain lower priced energy services, which underpin standard of living. Uphill fight for sure. However, the post did not mention the biggest subsidy of all, which is not charging those who burn coal for the health and environmental impacts. A Harvard Professor found a cost of $60 per megawatt hour of health and environmental costs associated with coal fired electricity. These were not global warming costs, but premature death, emergency room visits, pulmonary disease and damage to forests and buildings. The Ontario Medical Association did a study, endorsed by the Ministry for Energy, that found the cost in Ontario to be $120 per MWh of coal fired electricty. Big difference was Ontario put a higher value on the premature loss of life. Compare this to the average retail price of all electricity in the U.S. of $100 per MWh or ten cents per kilowatt-hour. Compare this to the lifetime subsidies given to various forms of clean energy generation: Solar $54/MWh, Wind $10/MWh, Biomass $5.00 per MWh, Recycled waste energy $1.34/MWh. We subsidize dirty energy much more than clean energy. Duh! Tom Casten

    On Obama to propose ending fossil fuel subsidies in Pittsburgh? posted 2 months, 2 weeks ago 3 Responses
  • Super-grid fantasies

    Energy is wasted in copious amounts because thermal energy will not travel economically. Period. End of story.

    Add a fantasy superconducting grid with no losses (vs.actual 7.5% average and 25% on peak losses) and it does nothing to utilize the 66% wasted byproduct heat at remote electricity generation plants (fossil, nuc or biomass) and does nothing to capture energy from industrial exhaust or flare gasses.

    But if we built generation at factories ...

    Tom CastenOn Proposed renewable-energy bill is better than nothing posted 9 months, 3 weeks ago 26 Responses

  • Clarifying clean energy definitions

    Some definitions of the shortened graph titles in my post will help:

    Recycled Energy: Indusrial waste energy converted into electricity without further heat recovery

    Recycled Energy CHP: As above, but instead of a condensing steam turbine that vents 75% of the exhaust energy, the thermal energy replaces boiler fuel.  This approach has negative incremental fuel.

    CHP: Conventional fossil-fueled combined heat and power, using a prime mover like a turbine or engine to produce electricity, and then recovering the exhaust for thermal energy.

    These options all recycle otherwise wasted energy streams.  The first two use byproduct heat from industrial processes while the third uses byproduct heat from electrticity generation

    Biomass Electricity Only: Typical 20 to 40 MW biomass plant that condenses steam, achieves about 30% efficiency of fuel to power

    Biomass CHP: Biomass, usually waste wood, that combines production of electricity first and then displaces boiler fuel with the low-grade thermal energy, and achieves 65% to 80% fuel to useful output efficiency.

    Tom Casten
    On Proposed renewable-energy bill is better than nothing posted 9 months, 3 weeks ago 26 Responses

  • Carol Browner on Carbon Caps

    Or maybe Carol Browner is closer to economic truth than the card-carrying economic advisors.  What if apparently cheap but high carbon coal-fired power costs more than clean energy?  What if we add to the apparent price of coal power  the costs of premature deaths, pulmonary and other diseases, damage to forests and buildings and failed fly ash impoundments?  In our calculations, replacing coal with local generation that recycles waste energy provides clean energy that reduces total costs, before counting climate change costs.

    Tom Casten

    Tom Casten, Chair, Recycled Energy Development LLC

    On Browner included on Obama economic team discussions posted 10 months, 4 weeks ago 4 Responses
  • Efficient Carrots to induce GHG reductions

    Challenge accepted.  To make carrots work, regulate fossil CO2 with output-based permits.  Here is the quick version.

    1. Give every MWh of electricity the same allowance, initially equal to average US carbon per MWH
    2. Do the same for every MWh of thermal energy
    3. Require every generator of heat and/or power to turn in permits each year equal to actual CO2 emissions
    4. Lower the allowances of CO2 for heat and for power on a schedule and correct for total production, absolutely capping and reducing CO2

    The result: All 'dirty' generators face a stick and must buy permits from clean generators.  The market determines the price of a permit, but the total sticks equal the total carrots.

    All developers of efficiency and new clean generation of any kind add to their economics the added revenue of selling extra permits.  Dirty generation owners can increase efficiency, buy permits, or generate less power, operating only in peak times.

    Congress never receives any allowance purchases and thus cannot do mischief by funding knuckleheaded ideas or buying votes.

    For details see http://www.recycled-energy.com/_documents/articles/dm_ele ...

    Tom Casten

    Tom Casten, Chair, Recycled Energy Development LLC

    On A carbon tax has efficient sticks, but what about carrots? posted 11 months, 3 weeks ago 19 Responses
  • clean air act bad for environment

    Sean replied about the problem of New Source Review.  I address how the metrics chosen to control criteria pollution ignore efficiency and thus encourage inefficiency.

    The ideal pollution regulation, from a market point of view, is a specified allowance of each criteria pollutant per unit of useful output,  given equally to all generators of heat or power.  This levels the playing field, making every electric generator and every thermal generator buy allowances for all pollution above the amount allowed.  Every cleaner plant gains a source of revenue, thus encouraging clean plants.  The allowance can be adjusted down over time, lots of details, not important to your question of how CAA hurts the environment versus a better control methodology.

    What CAA does is grant emission ceiling unique to each plant in PPM of exhaust concentration, which then applies until and unless the plant makes a major modification, in which case it must meet current BACT.  Problems? 1) No relationship in methodology to efficiency, 2)No credit for extracting more useful output than other plants, 3) if you come back later to improve energy productivity, you lose the permit, 4) the allowed pollution does not ratchet down over time, and 5) Each new plant must reduce the pollution from their plant to BACT, without regard to the cheapest way to lower emissions.

    Now to results.  Over thirty years, every time we try to develop a new, cleaner power plant that recycles waste energy and achieves 65% to 95% efficiency, we must jump CAA hurdles.  The plant must be cleaner than all existing plants, but then sell its product in compeition with the old plants.  This often ruins the economics of a new plant, thus preserving and enhancing the value of the old plants.  When we find a way to recycle carbon black tail gas and produce 30 megawatts of power with no incremental fuel, no incremental CO2, the carbon black company is afraid the change will trigger NSR.  We fixed that with a special EPA MACT (May of 2002) but face the problem in other industries.

    Finally, there are many opportunities to eliminate one ton of a criteria pollutant at old plants that would cost as little as 1% of the cost of removing one more ton from a new plant.  But the new plant cannot typically trade emissions,so must achieve the current BACT at its plant.  This has two bad results.  First, society pays $100 to remove a unit of pollution that could have been removed elsewhere for $1 dollar - bad use of resources.  But the bigger problem, and further answer to the question, is that the potential new plant, which would double the efficiency of the old plant, is simply not built, because of the excessive cost of removing the last unit of pollutant.  

    If you were in the business of supplying large rocks, would you go screen beach sand, or would you go where the big rocks are found?  The CAA tells plant developers who are using prime movers with 3% of the emissions of existing plants that they must add end-of-pipe controls - screen for rocks - to reduce the emissions to 1% of the old plants.

    We can do better!

    Tom Casten, Chair, Recycled Energy Development LLC

    On The challenges of reconciling science and policy posted 1 year, 6 months ago 32 Responses
  • response to lorna salzman

    I agree the bill is crumy, allocating $6.7 trillion of future allowance values to a hodgepodge of beneficiaries, few of whom will use the money to reduce GHG emissions.  But be careful that your own thinking is equally wrong, by picking the bad and good technologies instead of focusing on performance.

    Coal's carbon release per million Btus is only slighlty higher than oil.  Natural gas is 56% of coal, but still responsible for a great deal of carbon dioxide, especially when powering a 33% efficient electric system.

    Focus on performance - Carbon per unit of useful energy output.  There are more ways to clean energy than renewable, and they lower the cost of power as well.

    No one - congress or bloggers - can predict the best and cleanest technologies or determine the lowest cost ways to lower carbon.  Stick with performance, insist Congress sticks with performance measures, and let the market determine how to best meet the performance requirements

    Tom Casten

    Tom Casten, Chair, Recycled Energy Development LLC

    On Conservative senator offers two progressive amendments to climate bill posted 1 year, 6 months ago 6 Responses
  • McCain's Offsets

    So fix the rules to completely avoid 'bogus offsets'.  If emitters cannot purchase carbon offsets, then clean plants cannot sell carbon allowances.  Unless the value that clean plants create by not emitting as much carbon per unit of output is available to the clean plants, those plants will not be built.

    As Shaw said, be careful what you wish for.  Be especially careful about supporting a system of carbon penalties that does nothing to fix the underlying problem of excessive carbon per unit of output.

    Tom Casten

    Tom Casten, Chair, Recycled Energy Development LLC

    On What would the use of carbon offsets mean for McCain's climate policy? posted 1 year, 6 months ago 16 Responses
  • McCain's Offsets

    David:
    You have this one wrong.
    The goal is not, I repeat not,high price carbon allowances.  The goal is to reduce carbon emissions at the lowest possible cost, preferably with a profit.  Climate change is a world problem, requiring optimal solutions - i.e., solutions that reduce carbon and save money.  If the US forces very high price carbon reductions, which nations are going to emulate our policies when the see that those policies tanked the economy?

    Who benefits from selling allowances to the inefficient coal plants?  Answer: every producer of clean energy, whether renewable, more efficient combined heat and power, recycled industrial waste energy, or something we do not yet imagine.  Every opportunity to sell excess emission credits improves the prospects for building clean energy, which is good.  Wall Street likes this not because of the relatively small profit potential from organizing trades, but because it minimizes the costs of reducing carbon.

    Finally, I submit that neither the 'love' lavished on democrats or the distrust of republicans on global warming control is warranted by the facts.  No administration since Eisenhower has done anything to improve utility efficiency.  The Senate resolution to oppose Kyoto was almost unanimous.  No administration has proposed anything very bold, and we are clearly on a course of leaving no child unharmed.

    We must focus on solutions, not knee jerk against any suggestion because of who said it, and avoid using climate as a bargaining chip for partisan politics.  The parties have to come together on climate.

    We need Senator McCain to move to full output allowance standards on all four pollutants, then have the Democrats agree to use output standards to replace the counterproductive New Source Review Standards that bar investments in efficiency.  Finally, we must stop the Warner Lieberman approach of buying votes for a very bad allowance approach with gifts of carbon allowances to every vested interest, but no allowances to new clean energy.

    Tom Casten

    Tom Casten, Chair, Recycled Energy Development LLC

    On What would the use of carbon offsets mean for McCain's climate policy? posted 1 year, 6 months ago 16 Responses
  • Engaging Republicans in climate change

    It is easy to score comedy points on our President's latest climate mitigation mumbling, but how best advance the ball?

    Republicans typically lead with the economy and the party line is to frame this as a debate between cheap (dirty) energy and expensive clean energy.  Nice sound bite, wrong facts.

    The debate is between expensive dirty energy and clean cheap energy.  The rising cost of fossil fuels without improved efficiency is strangling the economy. The sub-prime mortgage crises is not the only thing tanking the U.S. economy.  Rising costs of energy services are hammering everyone.

    Can the economy afford to keep increasing the fossil fuel it burns for the next 17 years?  Whomever leads the way to reducing energy costs will gain an inside track to the White House.

    Frame the issue for what it is.  Reducing GHG emissions is an economic imperative.

    Tom Casten, Chair, Recycled Energy Development LLC

    On Thoughts on Bush's latest speech on climate change posted 1 year, 7 months ago 10 Responses
  • Who's the greenest?

    Both the question of whether Americans can combat climate change without changing their standard of living and the candidates' answers start with a flawed assumption the the current energy system is optimal.  It then follows that any changes will cost money, pitting environmental gain against economic loss.

    Consider the savings in fuel costs from improving the efficiency of generating heat and power, which together account for 69% of U.S. CO2 emissions.  Efficiency investments that reduce fossil fuel use enough to avoid one ton of CO2 emissions save fuel purchases as follows:
      - If coal, cut fuel costs by $34
      - If natural gas, cut fuel costs by $154
      - If #6 oil, cut fuel costs by $288

    These savings are 3 to ten times higher than the savings in 1999, due to soaring fossil fuel prices. Even at the old, lower prices, there were many profitable opportunities to improve efficiency that were blocked by regulations, and the regulations stand today.  These regulations were enacted when society thought resoucres were infinite and before climate change was recognized as a problem.

    Modernizing the regulations will unleash an investment boom in efficiency.  Proven technology can cut fossil fuel used to produce electricity in half, while cutting costs by $50 to $70 billion per year, after capital amortization.

    The actual tradeoff is between a dirty, high cost energy system and a clean, low cost energy system.  This ought to be the message of all candidates for President.

    Tom Casten On Clinton, Obama questioned on climate change at religion forum posted 1 year, 7 months ago 7 Responses

  • A better way to control carbon than tax

    The key insight of Dr.Monica Prasad is the power of transfering payments from CO2 emissions to support the cleaner energy production.  She says Denmark's carbon tax worked better than other countries' carbon taxes because most of the tax revenue went support cleaner energy production approaches.

    The better way is an output emission allowance standard, as follows.  Use delivered electricity or useful thermal energy as the metric.  Give every producer of heat or power the same allowance for every unit they deliver.  Require every producer to obtain and offset every ton of CO2 they produce with an allowance.  Make the allowances fully tradeable and exchangeable between heat and power.  Fine any producer who does not cover CO2 emissions with allowances 150% of the average cost of the CO2 emissions over the prior year.  True up annually.

    Add two features.  Publish a schedule that reduces the allowance per unit of electricity and of heat each year to achieve a society wide drop of CO2 emissions.  Then adjust the scheduled alowance in future years for growth (or shrinkage) of economy-wide fossil CO2 emissions.  For example, to adjust the scheduled allowance of CO2 per MWh in 2012, multiply the original scheduled allowance by a fraction which has the 2008 base year economy-wide fossil CO2 emissions divided by the 2011 CO2 emissions.  This insures that the total allowances shrink as designed, withou regard to growth of fossil fuel use or economic growth.

    Why is an output allowance system better?

    1. The market sets the allowance price for CO2 and constantly adjusts.  There is no way even the wisest philosopher queen could ever set the right tax rate to accomplish desired CO2 reduction.  Pols set the desired reduction and the market discovers the price per ton of CO2.
    2. There are no frictional losses.  Every dollar paid by the dirty electricity and thermal producers goes to the cleaner producers, avoiding the tempetation for politicians to divert CO2 revenues to other purposes.
    3. Selling excess allowances immediately benefits clean energy projects and helps encourage deployment.  Although CO2 tax payments may discourage dirty energy production, the tax does not directly encourage clean energy production.
    4. The output allowance system imposes no direct costs on the economy.  All payments from a dirty energy producers go to clean energy producers.  Either approach will redistribute wealth, but the allowance system transfers the dirty energy payment directly to clean energy projects.
    5. The dynamic effect will reduce delivered energy costs.  Entrepreneurs will lay awake nights trying to deploy projects that profitably increase delivered fossil efficiency.
    6. The output system lets the market select the technology of cleaner energy instead of a government such as Denmark selecting the favored technology.
    7. Most importantantly, output is the correct metric for CO2 control.  The economy gains no direct benefit from burning fossil fuel, but that burning causes pollution.  Useful energy services have no direct impact on the environment, except to the extent their production caused pollution. The economy depends on the availability and cost of useful energy services.  Heat and power are the closest thing to useful energy services that are measured. (No one measures the light in the room, which is the truly useful 2% to 4% of the fuel energy that was spent to genrate and deliver electricity and then convert that power to light).  Success of any system depends upon measuring and rewarding the right metric. Output is the right metric to induce profitable greenhouse gas reductions.

    Problems:
    We have not thought of a way to use output allowances for transportation, since output is not recorded.  Government could set a tax on transportation fuel equal to the 'market discovered price' of a ton of CO2 from heat and power.  Be aware that 69% of US CO2 emissions are from production of heat and power (42% form power, 27% from heat).  Then use the revenues to promote cleaner transportation, perhaps funding mass transit.

    Ditto the 17% or so of GHG from non-CO2.  Perhaps tax the same way as transportation.

    Circuit Breaker? The government could have unlimited allowances to sell at a starting price deemed acceptable by the pols, say $10 per ton of CO2.  Then increase the price by 10% per year comppound or higher value.  This eases the transition problems from inefficient dirty production to cleaner and more efficient production and soon drives the price of government allowances out of reach.

    Tom Casten
    Chair, Recycled Energy Development

    Tom Casten, Chair, Recycled Energy Development LLC

    On Carbon taxes work when there's substitutability and revenue is locked down for environmental goals posted 1 year, 8 months ago 3 Responses
  • Tom Casten Interview -- Where do we go from here?

    How is it possible that the U.S. electric industry has not improved delivered efficiency in 47 years? It should not surprise anyone that efficiency would rapidly improve but for many barriers, misplaced incentives,financial guarantees of inefficient approaches, and a system ruled by Politboros. (Rate Commissions) Consequently, answering the question, "Where do we go from here?" is inherently complex.

    I will quickly outline broad steps needed to induce profitable clean energy production, and hope other readers can sharpen the details.

    1. Create a national inventory of all presently wasted energy that could be profitably recycled.  Identify the opportunity by town, county, voting district, and industry so the public and our leaders understand the magnitude of the opportunity.
    2. Demand that DOE, EPA, and every Public Utility Commission change their metrics to optimize the delivered cost of each kilowatt-hour, including all capital amortization and losses associated with T&D.  Local generation avoids transmission capital and line losses, but is typically paid, at best, the price paid for power at a remote station.
    3)Either stop providing rate payer guarantees of central generation plants, new transmission wires and new distribution system investments, or provide the ratepayer guarantees to local generation as well.  For the last 100 years, when a rate commission or FERC agreed that a central generation investment and/or associated wires was prudent, the lifetime return on that investment was effectively guaranteed, providing cheap capital to the least efficient approach .
    1. Pass a federal law voiding all state prohibitions against private electric wires that cross public streets. (note that there are no prohibitions against private natural gas pipes.)  This will enable local generators to sell electricity to neighbors at retail minus the true cost of delivering the power.  Expect few new wires, as distribution utilities price distribution down to the avoided cost of new wires.
    2. Replace the EPA's input-based site-specific, technology-specific, time of permit-specific pollution allowance approach with pollutant allowances per unit of useful delivered energy that apply to all generators, all fuels, all technology, all age plants, and let market forces determine the optimal way to reduce emmissions, including using efficiency as a pollution control measure.
    3. Ask the independent power industry to identify every regulatory or legal barrier to local generation and then ask the relevant legislature/regulatory body to determine if there is a remaining societal objective to the rule (many of these barriers are in laws passed in the early 1900s), and if yes, is there a way to meet the societal objective without blocking local generation.  (Example: Operator laws passed 80 years ago mandate continuous monitoring of any facility producing roughly 150 psig steam but all states allow companies to compress natural gas to 1600 psig without operator attendance, because automatic safety equipment was available by the time anyone started compressing gas for pipeline transport.)
    4. Cause the EPA to determine the health and environmental costs to society of each form of air pollution and pass taxes on all pollution sufficient to recover the health and environmental costs, thus enabling market forces to internalize true pollutant costs and make optimal decisions.
    5. Remove the throughput bias from all monopoly electric system rate regulation so as to decouple utility returns on invested capital from electric sales through the wires. End the hypocrisy of utlity administered energy efficiency programs.
    6. Set all standby rates for local generation to reflect the costs the utility would have, statistically determined to provide standby, less the savings to the grid caused by new local generation in avoided wires, line losses and central generation investment costs.  All such calculations suggest a net payment to local generators versus the ubiquitous practice of charging inflated utility cost estimates with no offsetting benefit recognition.

    These nine actions would trigger a twenty year replacement of the present deeply suboptimal system of heat and power generation with a system of local generation that recycles waste energy and interconnects to provide reliable electricity.  We estimate this would induce a capital investment in the U.S. of roughly $350 billion, reduce fossil fuel use for electric generation by 50%, cut US CO2 emissions by 20% overall, and cut real electric rates by 40%.  A byproduct benefit would be the 40% drop in criteria pollutant emissions.

    As a matter of interest, Denmark embarked on similar objectives in the mid-1980's and has over 50% local generation today, plus uses only 40% as much input energy per unit of gross domestic product as is used by the U.S. and Canada.

    For starters, that is where do we go from here.

    Tom Casten

    Tom Casten, Chair, Recycled Energy Development LLC

    On Why efficiency is the key to CO2 reduction posted 2 years, 3 months ago 2 Responses
  • Plug in Hybrids

    David cites studies showing electricity for cars saves pollution regardless of the fuel or generation method and concludes by describing plug in hybrid cars as, "one of the few climate change solutions that's an unambiguous positive." We agree this is one unambiguous positive, but would make three points:

    First, there are other unambiguously positive solutions that are not being deployed in a remotely optimal fashion, and they do not require any new technology.

    Second, all of us should expend more brain cells demanding "unambiguously positive solutions" to climate mitigation.  The "lazy" environmentalist that pushes for all possible renewable energy deployment with no regard for cost needs to think harder to find sources of clean power that are also cost effective, and not assume the world optimally produces energy services, beacuse it does not.  The "lazy" business person or economist that objects to all government programs to reduce GHG emissions because "these actions will damage the economy", needs to think harder to learn about clean energy sources that benefit the economy, and learn why those sources are not being optimally deployed.  All citizens should join in non-partisan efforts to deploy double bottom line solutions to climate change.

    Finally, the largest opportunity for "unambiguously positive solutions" is to recycle currently wasted energy.  US industry vents energy streams that could generate nearly 10% of US power with no fuel and no incremental pollution.  Contrast this with the 2.6% of US power generated in 2005 from renewables, exclusing hydroelectricity.  Why not chase industrial waste energy recycling with the same vigor we are chasing renewable energy.  Bill McKibben wonders if the problem is that there aren't any folk songs about heat recovery.

    The energy waste in U.S. electricity generation and delivery is even greater.  The US monopoly-dominated grid delivers only 33% of input energy as electricity and wastes the other 2/3's. This dismal efficiency has not improved in nearly 50 years.  Ouch!  By building all new power plants next to thermal users and recycling this presently wasted heat, the US could eliminate burning 13 quads of fuel per year -- 13% of the current 100 quads used by the entire economy.

    We wrote in a new book* that recycling the current industrial and electric energy waste would save 17 quads of fuel and would, "reduce energy costs by $70 billion per year and cut U.S. fossil fuel use from 85.7 quads (in 2004) to 68.7 quads, roughly a 20% drop in fossil fuel and in associated CO2 greenhouse gas emissions."

    Recycling waste energy, by halving the net fossil fuel used to generate electrity, would double the emissions impact of plug-in electric hybrid automobiles, and would reduce the cost of electricity for recharging -- a double double win.

    David, happily there are other "unambiguously positive solutions;" society will benefit from rapid deployment of all double bottom line sollutions.

    *"Energy and American Society -- Thirteen Myths", Springer, ed Marilyn Brown and Benjamin Sovocool

    Tom Casten
    Chairman, Recycled Energy Development LLC

    Tom Casten, Chair, Recycled Energy Development LLC

    On Really posted 2 years, 4 months ago 44 Responses