Comments joeblueskies has made
The rain in Spain.....
uuuh....Iowa?
Bacon, the gateway meat.
On Climate change means worse droughts for American Southwest, Australia posted 1 year, 5 months ago 2 Responseshey nim
bravo on making the connection between animals and soil fertility. Not so many do these days. I had the same question about the ACS. Also that the report came out of that noteable hot-bed of sustainable ag research Carnegie Mellon University. Smart people, but not so much their regular gig.
Interesting that the sub-title for this thread is "Still more reasons to eat local and lay off the beef". Well, a key part of eating local is learning to eat seasonally. And guess what one of the few food sources that is available fresh - with all that means for good nutrition and taste - on a year-round basis in the northern hemisphere? Hmmmmmmm.. less see now... Oh yeah - I got it - beef and dairy products! oh wait....
Bacon, the gateway meat.
On Still more reasons to eat local and lay off the beef posted 1 year, 5 months ago 33 ResponsesJanus beef
Too bad you have to pay to actually read the article, so I don't know what went into their analysis. Call me cheap. I assume "beef" in this case means industrial corn-fed feedlot beef. I would like to see the results of a peer-reviewed study of totally grass-fed beef, produced through intensive rotational grazing, including the role of the rapidly growing grasslands in carbon sequestration in the root zone. This would definitely help offset all those cow burps. I am quite sure that the picture would be very different than is painted here. Beef production is not a one-size-fits-all creature.
Plus, the food value would be very different as well. The nutritional profile of grass-fed animals is quite preferential to the industrial model.
All that aside, most of the beef produced in America is fed primarily on grain for all or a substantial part of its life, so this is quite good information. But its nice to know we have choices.
Bacon, the gateway meat.
On Still more reasons to eat local and lay off the beef posted 1 year, 5 months ago 33 Responsesgrazing followup
There is not doubt that intermountain grazing has historically been very environmentally damaging. However, attitudes and practices are changing and there are many initiatives afoot to create restorative ranching practices which also sustain the local ranching communities. Several good resources are the Red Lodge Clearinghouse web site (rlch.org) and the Quivira Coalition, a Santa Fe based group (quiviracoalition.org).
Frankly, the Denzel Ferguson book is 25 years old and dated. While doing undergraduate thesis work at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in 1979, I used the library at the Malheur Field Station in SE Oregon which he directed at the time, and he was a hero to budding young western ecologists. He spelled out that problems with conventional grazing practices and the history of destruction better than anyone. Since then, and partly thanks to his work, it seems that the most effective people have moved on from confrontation to cooperation. There is a lot of interesting work being done in restoration ecology, and ranchers are a necessary part of the solution.
Bacon, the gateway meat.
On So says U.K. study posted 1 year, 6 months ago 13 ResponsesAsia, buffalos, and milk
According to Wikipedia, South Asia comprises the sub-Himalayan countries and consists of the following countries and territories: Bangladesh; British Indian Ocean Territory; Bhutan; India; Maldives; Nepal; Pakistan; & Sri Lanka. People there consume a LOT of milk. India alone annually produces about 30 million pounds of water buffalo milk, not even considering milk of sacred cows. And yes, Southeast Asian countries traditionally did not use buffalos for dairy. That seems more to me to mean that they missed out on a useful source of nutrition, for whatever reason, rather than implying that milk and its derivatives are poor food source.
Bacon, the gateway meat.
On So says U.K. study posted 1 year, 6 months ago 13 Responsesgrazing chickens
Pastured poultry is a profitable diversified farming practice in many parts of the U.S. These are typically family run enterprises, and while still uncommon, such operations have been growing rapidly over the past 10 - 15 years. Google "pastured poultry" and check it out. The term refers to the practice of raising birds for meat, but many of the same farmers also run herds of birds in mobile coops for egg-laying too. The grass (and the bugs it contains) has much of the same positive benefits to the quality of the meat and eggs that Tom's article discusses for milk. The farmers I know who do it cannot even begin to keep up with the demand of their customers.
It is an extremely useful practice, especially combined with other grazing modalities, to build and enrich soil, because of the heavy pulsed input of naturally-produced nitrogenous waste. It mostly ends up incorporated in the soil, with little ammonia off-gassing or run-off.
Bacon, the gateway meat.
On So says U.K. study posted 1 year, 6 months ago 13 ResponsesBlanket statements make for weak conclusions
I suppose that may depend on how one defines "The West". Once upon a time millions of buffalo roamed the plains, so the grasslands were surely adapted to herbivores. No doubt excessive concentrated grazing pressure is quite harmful, even catastrophic in some locales, but surely that blanket statement overstates the case. Anyways, anthropogenically-induced climate change is a more probable candidate for "Worst in the West", if we are looking for that.
Most traditional societies consumed dairy products where ever herds flourished. The whole of Europe, the Caucausus, a huge swath of central Asia nd the Himalayas, south Asia, large regions of Africa. Even the Andes had vicunas and alpacas, so perhaps they gave milk for humans too. Most of these people consumed dairy as fermented products, full of useful micro-organisms, or as cheese or butter.
It is interesting to me how often people extrapolate from their own personal experience to the entirety of the human race.
Bacon, the gateway meat.
On So says U.K. study posted 1 year, 6 months ago 13 ResponsesWhat about nutrition?
Ethics and soil science are getting a pretty good workout here. It seems taken for granted in this thread that what one eats comes down to a simple matter of personal choice. Eating is simply a matter of balancing desire and pleasure vs. spiritual evolution or ethical considerations.
But what if a person does not feel healthy, or is NOT healthy, without some animal products in their diet? Humans have a complicated evolutionary history, and a varied genetic background. We have different blood types, different allergies, different biologies, depending on background. South Asians have evolved for millenia on a complex vegetarian diet, while Innuit have lived mostly on meat and seafood for generations. I personally have never felt healthy on various vegetarian or vegan diets. I have heard this from many people. Yet, we all know people who naturally gravitate away from meat in their diet, and feel better physically for it.
Why is it that what makes one person feel radiant makes another fail to thrive? Some might say it is simply a matter of finding the right nutritional balance, of taking enough vitamins. Yet, food scientists are barely beginning to understand how foods nourish us, how the interactions among all elements in food build our bodies. It all looks like simple reductionist thinking. Look at the confusion around the last food pyramid, and the sad state of human health in this country.
People have a right to choose diets that lead them to health. One doesn't need to be a rocket scientist to forsee the absolutely predictable response I will get from some people here on this statement, but just because YOU have a constitution that thrives on a vegan or vegetarian diet doesn't mean that everyone does. Even if you avoid meat, but eat only eggs or dairy products, animals will die for that choice. What do you think happens to the 50% of calves who are born as males into dairy herds? Without them, the mothers will not freshen and give milk. Yet, the dairy farmer can't afford to feed them.
Human nutrition matters in this debate, along with soil science and ethics. When it comes to nutrition, one size does not fit all.
Bacon, the gateway meat.
On The USDA's new ban won't keep sick cows out of the food supply posted 1 year, 6 months ago 43 ResponsesThe need for Whole Systems
Javaearth - I applaud you for your dedication to a stance which you clearly believe in. Commitment to ending animal cruelty and environmental abuse through taking charge of one's own personal behavior is a very good thing.
So - you probably want a ready steady source of organically-grown produce. I think you missed Tom's earlier comment about the necessity for good soil to grow that produce, and the need for animals to produce the manure to build the good soil. The main source for conventional nitrogenous fertilizers is natural gas. Giving where all hydrocarbon fuel prices are going, producers around the country are turning to alternative fertilizer sources. Animal manures are in high demand.
Where I live, in Virginia's Shenandoah Valley, we have a LOT of poultry houses. Poultry litter from the houses used to be a big problem for the producers to get rid of. Now there is an increasing demand for it as a fertilizer and soil builder. It works better for the farmers to put that down on a field than to pay double or triple what they used to for a truck of urea fertilizer.
The point is that these systems are linked. I am not shilling for the poultry producers, but you need to feed the soil somehow to produce the vegetables you want. You can't build a wall around them, and say "I want that, but not that". So you need to build integrated systems. City dwellers CAN wall off the systems, at least in their own minds, because they are so removed from the point of production, and the earth. This allows them the luxury of maintaining their sense of moral superiority - "I do THAT (good), not THAT (bad)". They don't really see where it all comes from.
Maybe I am wrong. Maybe you are tapped into a system where the only animal life involved is the human beings(and maybe some honeybees as pollinators), and everything else consists of happy benign plants. Somehow, I tend to doubt it.
Bacon, the gateway meat.
On The USDA's new ban won't keep sick cows out of the food supply posted 1 year, 6 months ago 43 ResponsesDon't Quit your Day Job
Javaearth -
Now that is truly a joke - Sally Fallon and Jo Robinson financed by the meat and Dairy industry?! That is "research?" They are supported by individual diversified family farmers, maybe, but hardly the industry. Jo's EatWild.com is a fabulous public service site that leads you to where you can buy locally produced grass-fed meats and dairy products in all 50 states. She is an important resource keeping these farms viable.
Bacon, the gateway meat.
On The USDA's new ban won't keep sick cows out of the food supply posted 1 year, 6 months ago 43 ResponsesMeat and Health
I am not a nutritionist or scientific expert, simply an interested consumer. I recommend 2 sources on this subject - Sally Fallon's "Nourishing Traditions" (amazing book that everyone interested in health should read), and Jo Robinson's blog at www.eatwild.com . Ms. Robinson also co-authored a book about the importance of essential fatty acids (EFA's) - "The Omega Diet" - with Dr. Artemis Simopoulos. To sum up a few points in a scattershot fashion:
- Your body cannot make EFA's. While some are available from plants, animal products are a good source.
- Some people are "obligate carnivores" as they cannot make long-chain fatty acids from other EFA's
- You want to consume EFA's in a way that maintains balance between between Omega 3 and omega 6s. Excessive grain consumption causes Omega 6 imbalances, interfering with prostaglandin production, leading to inflammations and many other problems. Corn-fed feedlot beef is high in Omega 6s which is a problem.
- Certain fats, from animals and tropical oils - have antimicrobial properties, which are good in your system.
- Certain vitamins are only fat-soluble, such as A, D, K, E, and animal products are a very good source. Animal fats are the only source for A and D, I believe. Eating them in a whole food means you also get the naturally occurring cofactors with them.
- Stearic acid, a main component in beef fat, lowers cholesterol and is actually good for the heart. Fallon claims it is a preferred food for the heart.
- Arachondic Acid is found only in animal fats, and has important functions in brain cells and the cell membranes.
- Meat is an excellent source of trace minerals, especially zinc and iron.
- Conjugated Linoleic Acid (CLA) is found in the milk and meat of grass-fed animals. Feeding them grain causes it to disappear. It has strong anti-cancer properties, and especially linked to breat cancer prevention. If I was a female vegan with a family history of breat cancer, I would seriously investigate this.
- Usable Vitamin B12 occurs only in animal products.
- Meat is a principle source of phosphorus for most people.
Lastly, regarding the ethical treatment of animals, not eating domestic animals is NOT being kind to them and letting them live their lives. It is condemning them to extinction. Even the most cursory investigation of the fate of heritage breeds in this era of industrial agriculture will reveal that.
Bacon, the gateway meat.
On The USDA's new ban won't keep sick cows out of the food supply posted 1 year, 6 months ago 43 Responses- Your body cannot make EFA's. While some are available from plants, animal products are a good source.
Know your food supply
It seems silly to me that a knowledgeable person would expect perfection from a government agency. It is very unlikely that the USDA will achieve it. But it is also silly that we sometimes think there are only 2 options: buy meat produced under the dominant market-driven paradigm, or forgo it altogether. Know your food system, and figure out how to get something different. Take charge of your own life! There are more and more avenues opening up to getting quality healthy meats, raised by farmers who care, for people who are interested in that food source. Buy local, support your producer, and keep the farms from turning into suburbs. Meat and dairy are whole foods with unique health-giving qualities you get from no other food source. Many people cannot do without them. If you want to turn to soy for your protein source, so be it. But another answer is to rebuild local food systems that can deliver quality food outside the faceless unaccountable industrial system.
Bacon, the gateway meat.
On The USDA's new ban won't keep sick cows out of the food supply posted 1 year, 6 months ago 43 ResponsesLocal Inspection
The local slaughterhouse I am most familiar with has a Federal-level inspector provided and paid for by the State. The owner only pays for any overtime. The taxpayer pays the rest. There is no need for random inspection, as the inspector is always there, and reviews every single animal, no exception. Can't get a downer cow through here. This is a local business with about 20 employees. These businesses have been disappearing for years due to consolidation around large CAFO operations, but are essential for local farmers who want to sell their own animals directly to restaurants and consumers at farmers markets, where as was noted, they retain a much higher portion of the proceeds. These dollars then stay in circulation in the community, instead of going to the pockets of big agribusiness, or wired home to Jalisco. There are several Latinos that do work in this plant, all legal workers or citizens. They work very very hard on a tough job.
Bacon, the gateway meat.
On Direct and value-added marketing in the farm bill posted 1 year, 10 months ago 3 Responsestraining wheels
I agree, the post was not funny. As a hunter and as an individual who leases a significant amount of land to Joel Salatin, I know a good bit about the hurdles facing these farmers, so to me thoughtless dumping on the book is not funny. And it doesn't sound like your friends need hunter safety courses, it sounds like they need lessons on what happens AFTER they pull the trigger. Plus maybe a little respect for their prey.
Bacon, the gateway meat.
On Why Omnivore's Dilemma should be avoided posted 1 year, 10 months ago 22 ResponsesI don't what is sadder...
... that the individual that went out and took a life had no idea what to do next, or that the author of of this post thinks that this bonehead muddling is typical of all hunters. Maybe what is truly sad is that most of us are so removed from nature that we have no way to begin orienting ourselves to the most basic of life support processes that our ancestors knew so well.
BTW, without going back and rereading the book, I believe that Pollan was fairly clear on the fact that his 4th meal was not a viable option for most Americans to provide for their nutritional needs in our urbanized supermarket world. He also had a great deal of respect for individuals who still possessed the skill set necessary to procure food from nature, and then to turn it into something wonderful to share with thier fellow beings, rather than using them to offload a bloody mess in a garbage bag.
Bacon, the gateway meat.
On Why Omnivore's Dilemma should be avoided posted 1 year, 10 months ago 22 Responses