Comments Earl Killian has made
- Great post! Thank you. So how about providing us with the address of the CBO folks so we can write them a nice letter? Very cute puppies.On How CBO budget scoring devalues efficiency ... WITH PUPPIES! posted 1 month, 2 weeks ago 9 Responses
- You wrote, "We have had solar and wind technologies since the 70's and the cost has not come down to be competitive with conventional energy." You seem frozen in time. Wind energy is already competitive with new fossil energy, and it will improve further with the new 5 MW turbines that exploit winds at 80 m and achieve higher capacity factors as a result. Of course, no new energy can compete with fully depreciated old energy, but that's not the test. Consider the busbar cost data prepared for the California Energy Commission by EThree: Biogas: 8.552 cents/kWh Wind: 8.910 cents/kWh Gas Combined Cycle: 9.382 cents/kWh Geothermal: 10.182 cents/kWh Hydroelectric: 10.527 cents/kWh Coal Supercritical: 10.554 cents/kWh Coal IGCC: 11.481 cents/kWh Solar thermal: 12.653 cents/kWh Nuclear: 15.316 cents/kWh Biomass: 16.485 cents/kWh Coal IGCC with CCS: 17.317 cents/kWh (Also Stirling Energy Systems claims "less than 10 cents per kWh" for their SunCatcher solar thermal.) You wrote, "it is a question of how much I am ABLE to pay for it." The question is whether your are ABLE to pay for the cost of not having clean energy. I very much doubt any of us can afford that price tag, at least if we include our children in the equation. You make it sound as if there is a choice, but really the alternative is much too expensive for any of us. There is a problem with wind: there are issues with intermittent supply. Fortunately, that is one problem that electric cars help solve.On SolarCity makes electric cars an even smarter investment posted 1 month, 3 weeks ago 19 Responses
- I remember the first time I heard a CD player in 1984. They had just come out and friend had bought one for around $2000. That was in 1980s dollars, and would be about $4100 today. What do you pay for a CD player today? My point is that the price premium for batteries will come down as technology improves and as manufacturing moves down the learning curve. To diss EVs today based on cost is not looking toward what will inevitably happen when they are manufactured in quantity. It is perfectly plausible that in just a few years that an EV battery pack will cost under $8,000, instead of $16,000 today. Subtract from that $8,000 the cost of the engine, radiator, oil pump and filter, spark plugs, transmission, catalytic converter, muffler, and the maintenance associated with those things and all the fluids and filters, and the EV premium will be much less. Remember that maintenance is a big part of the cost of car ownership and that EVs have a lot less of it. You should also ask yourself how much you're willing to pay for clean air and water. Plenty of people pay an outrageous price so that the US can feed its gasoline addiction. In contrast, my EV fuel comes from sunshine.On SolarCity makes electric cars an even smarter investment posted 1 month, 3 weeks ago 19 Responses
- In California, you can drive your electricity bill to zero by installing TOU net-metering and PV, but you cannot get paid for the energy you generate in excess of what you use over a 12 month period. If you want to get paid for electricity generated then you go into a different program where you get wholesale rates instead of retail rates.On SolarCity makes electric cars an even smarter investment posted 1 month, 3 weeks ago 19 Responses
This story is a good illustration of the second half of the lament, "Republicans are evil and Democrats are incompetent." I'd rather have the Three Stooges fix my plumbing than leave it to the Democrats to actually solve a problem.
If Baucus gets to control the climate bill, we might as well start moving to Ellesmere Island. If the Republicans get control again, we might as well start moving to Mars.
We need a new party.
On Is Sen. Baucus of Montana standing in the way of swift, strong climate action? posted 2 months, 2 weeks ago 4 ResponsesThe target 350 ppm comes from James Hansen's paper Target Atmospheric CO2: Where Should Humanity Aim?
Your assertion "the 350 ppmv target was chosen for pragmatic rather than strictly scientific reasons" does not jive with Hansen's paper. Have you read it?
AlexD, you will find in the paper suggestions on how 350 ppm might be accomplished. Here is a quote from the paper, "In Supplementary Material we define a forest/soil drawdown scenario that reaches 50 ppm by 2150 (Fig. 6B). This scenario returns CO2 below 350 ppm late this century, after about 100 years above that level."
On Pachauri's call for 350 ppm is breakthrough moment for climate movement posted 3 months ago 13 ResponsesThis post uses a variety of MPG figures inconsistetly, which makes the subject even more confusing than it already was. Please get it right so you're decreasing the confusion rather than increasing it.The biggest error here is the implication that the only change was the addition of a 6.67 multiplier, which is not true. The government also changed the energy equivalent of a gallon of gasoline from 33,700 Wh/mi to 12,307.3 Wh/gal, which is a 2.74 multiplier in the opposite direction, so the net is a factor of 2.44 multiplier for MPG. The 33,700 Wh/mi is recognizable as the energy content of a gallon of gasoline (technically called the "Lower Heating Value"). The 12,307 figure is derived from 33,700 by multiplying by 0.328 for fossil-fuel efficiecy (presumably at the electric power plant) and 0.924 for electricity transmission efficiency. What fossil-fuel efficiency means for wind, solar, hydro, nuclear, etc. electric power is beyond me.
The Tesla MPG appears to be based on the old method using the LHV of gasoline (33,700 Wh/gal), which makes it not at all comparable to the new Leaf and Volt numbers. Thus the Leaf in the old way would be 150 MPG, not 367 or 55 MPG, and the Volt would be 94 MPG, not 230. Are you confused yet?
Ultimately we have to abandon the attempt to rate electric vehicles in MPG. It really comes down to $/mi; that's probably the metric that should be used.
On What does it mean for a car to get 230 miles per gallon? posted 3 months, 1 week ago 2 ResponsesI support a plan to shut down old coal plants by buying them out. In the short-term that would mean more NG electric power, but with renewable portfolio standards catching on (perhaps even at the Federal level), and with NG lower in the dispatch order than renewables, we have a chance to replace that NG with non-fossil energy. Also, if the Federal government were to get serious about energy efficiency, we might see US power generation drop, despite the increasing population. Normally that would reduce NG first, and coal second, so getting rid of coal first is a good idea. Of course, the Federal government has yet to takl about efficiency as seriously as some states, so this is merely potential at the moment.
There is a push to electrify off-road diesel machinery. For example, the Port of LA is moving to electrify dredging and provide shore power to berthed ships (so they don't run their engines for electricity in port). The off-road emissions from diesel are significant, so this matters. Class 8 trucks are hard to electrify, but it we shut down coal plants, we will have a lot of spare rail capacity. Even diesel rail is much lower emissions than trucking, and of coure electric rail is much better (the US used to even have electric rail grossing the Rockies with trains braking on the way down helping to power trains going uphill). Thus one can substitute or reduce a lot of diesel without going to NG.
On Should greens ally with natural gas against coal? posted 3 months, 1 week ago 16 ResponsesI like the provision that requires the president, starting in 2020, to impose a tariff on goods from countries that do not act to limit their greenhouse pollution. This last-minute addition is potentially one of the most important, as it is likely to cause other nations to enter into a global framework.
On Revised and updated: Things I love -- and hate -- about Waxman-Markey posted 4 months, 3 weeks ago 4 ResponsesWe passed 2°C a while ago, if you don't count air pollution. In other words, keeping under 2°C means a permanent committment to polluting our air. Read the abstract of http://www.pnas.org/content/105/38/14245.full for more information:
The observed increase in the concentration of greenhouse gases (GHGs) since the preindustrial era has most likely committed the world to a warming of 2.4°C (1.4°C to 4.3°C) above the preindustrial surface temperatures. The committed warming is inferred from the most recent Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) estimates of the greenhouse forcing and climate sensitivity. The estimated warming of 2.4°C is the equilibrium warming above preindustrial temperatures that the world will observe even if GHG concentrations are held fixed at their 2005 concentration levels but without any other anthropogenic forcing such as the cooling effect of aerosols. The range of 1.4°C to 4.3°C in the committed warming overlaps and surpasses the currently perceived threshold range of 1°C to 3°C for dangerous anthropogenic interference with many of the climate-tipping elements such as the summer arctic sea ice, Himalayan–Tibetan glaciers, and the Greenland Ice Sheet. IPCC models suggest that ≈25% (0.6°C) of the committed warming has been realized as of now. About 90% or more of the rest of the committed warming of 1.6°C will unfold during the 21st century, determined by the rate of the unmasking of the aerosol cooling effect by air pollution abatement laws and by the rate of release of the GHGs-forcing stored in the oceans. The accompanying sea-level rise can continue for more than several centuries. Lastly, even the most aggressive CO2 mitigation steps as envisioned now can only limit further additions to the committed warming, but not reduce the already committed GHGs warming of 2.4°C.
On 47 groups urge Obama to endorse 2-degree C warming threshold posted 5 months ago 5 ResponsesLet's compare Waxman-Markey (cap-grandfather-trade, sometimes known as "cap and trade") to another poltically feasible approach actually enacted in the 1970s: the Clean Air Act (CAA). The CAA gave the EPA the power to enact regulations to deal with air pollution. It was broad enough that the SCOTUS ruled in 2007 (Massachusetts v. EPA) that CAA required the EPA to regulate greenhouse pollution if it posed a threat to human health. That approach directs a science-based agency to find and implement solutions. IMO, it would be better if Waxman-Markey had a component like this rather putting all the effort into cap-grandfather-trade, which I expect to turn out poorly on its own.
Unfortunately the EPA doesn't have all the tools that are appropriate for fighting greenhouse pollution under the CAA, so relying on the old is not sufficient.
"A million different regulations" is clearly hyperbole, but it would require hundreds I think. I made a list of what I knew of once at http://www.killian.com/earl/editorials.html#e20081206 if you want to get an idea of the scope of things. Note that a price on carbon is on the list, but hardly the central strategy.
On Cap-and-trade: filling up the political space that should be used for real solutions posted 6 months ago 4 ResponsesPricing carbon should not be used to drive change; it won't do that very well. To see that, consider that improving our energy usage efficiency is one of the most important necessary-but-not-sufficient attacks upon our greenhouse pollution, and yet energy usage efficiency already yields cost savings, and yet remains undone. The market is not perfect, and never will be. However, incentives, policies, and regulations can make energy usage efficiency happen, even when cost savings are insufficient. Therefore we need more than just a price signal.
The purpose of putting a price on carbon is to close loopholes that companies might exploit until regulators get around to closing them (if they can—once a loophole is opened, it is hard to close it). For example, imagine regulations ban coal-to-liquids and oil sands as too greenhouse polluting, but then some companies discovers something new that is even dirtier; a carbon price keeps that off the table.
Closing loopholes is a pretty limited goal, though important. It consternates that Congress is making it the central strategy in the attack on greenhouse pollution.
On Cap-and-trade: filling up the political space that should be used for real solutions posted 6 months ago 4 ResponsesOne reason that the dispute between EV and hydrogen advocates generates so much more heat than light is that often the PR people don't actually understand the technologies they promote or attack. Terry Tamminen calling batteries and hydrogen "a fuel source" is a perfect example. Batteries and hydrogen are energy storage mechanisms.
The fuel sources for these storage methods could be many things, including sunlight, wind, natural gas, coal, geothermal, nuclear, and so on. For batteries, all of these are first converted to electricity and delivered over the grid to the vehicles, which stores the energy in a chemical reaction in the batteries, which is then reversed to power the electric motor. Except for natural gas, the pathway to store energy as hydrogen is similar, convert to electricity, and then use electrolysis to generate hydrogen, which is pressurized to 10,000 psi, pumped into a tank in the vehicle, and then converted back to electricity in a fuel cell. Ignoring natural gas for the moment, the fact that the starting and ending point for the two pathways is electricity makes it very easy to compare them, with the result that the hydrogen pathway is always seen to require 2-4x the starting electricity of the battery pathway. One can argue where in that range hydrogen will be someday, but no one that I know in the hydrogen world has ever claimed the result is less than 2x. Thus one needs at least 2x, and perhaps up to 4x the coal, sunlight, wind, nuclear, etc.
The coal candard used against EVs can be seen to be quite silly in this context. Unless we build a hydrogen pipeline system of enormous scale, hydrogen will be made locally from electrolysis or steam reformation of natural gas; for local electrolysis the energy will come from the grid. If the grid is coal-powered, then the hydrogen pathway requires 2-4x as much coal. If it is solar powered, then the hydrogen pathway requires 2-4x as many square miles of solar concentrators. If the grid is nuclear powered, then it takes 2-4x as much nuclear power plants; and so on.
The other pathway for storing energy in hydrogen is steam reformation of natural gas. The issue here is that this process produces greenhouse pollution. The greenhouse pollution numbers for this process are known (I can post more details if anyone wants), and the issue is that it is not enough cleaner than gasoline to get us where we need to be on global warming. Therefore we are back to starting with electricity from non-fossil sources (wind, solar, etc.) and the 2-4x issue.
On California plans no exit from hydrogen highway posted 6 months ago 39 ResponsesGood point Sean.
Complex systems rarely work entirely the way their designers intend; there are certain to be unintended and unexpected consequences. Change or design of complex systems is really an exercise in directed evolution where both the system and designers respond and co-evolve. The problem is that systems tend to find stable local solutions to the forces of the system environment, and perturbing them from such states so they can evolve to a new (hopefully better stable local minima) requires a large initial force in the right direction. The goal in making changes is to restart system evolution that is stuck in a stable local solution that is inferior to nearby superior stable local solutions.
With that observation, it is a bit worrisome that some people are looking for "the" answer, instead of assuming that multiple mid-course corrections will be necessary. Compare the Waxman-Markey bill to the Clean Air Act (CAA). Waxman-Markey attempts to craft a 40-year program. The Clean Air Act instead directed the EPA to come up with a series of solutions, as necessary. It was general enough that the Supreme Court in 2007 (Massachusetts v. EPA) was able to say that the EPA had to regulate greenhouse pollution if it was a danger.
The only thing to be said for the Waxman-Markey approach is that we may not have the stomach for making mid-course corrections in a few years. For example, IMO, the Clean Air Act could have never been passed in any of the years after 1980. If we can pass something today, it doesn't mean we will have the leadership to do it again any time soon. However, that argues even more strongly for an approch like the CAA.
On Cap & trade: Carbon tax or wealth transfer? posted 6 months, 1 week ago 5 Responsesyour statement isn't strong enough
You could strengthen your solar energy comparison by two orders of magnitude. According to the textbook Fundamentals of Renewable Energy Processes known coal reserves contain 39,000 EJ of energy. According to Wikipedia, the sunlight reaching Earth in a year is 3,850,000 EJ. That means Earth receives sunshine equal to our known coal reserves in just 3.7 days.
(The same Wikipedia pages gives annual wind energy as 2,250 EJ and Biomass as 3,000 EJ, i.e. less than known coal reserves. Known U235 reserves are 2,600 EJ in the textbook.)
On The right questions posted 11 months ago 2 Responsesefficiency is necessary, not sufficient
The kinds of utility energy efficiency programs found in Massachusetts are arguably among the very few measures that can achieve the scale of emission reductions we need in the short amount of time we have. Nothing else -- carbon pricing, renewable energy, carbon sequestration -- is big enough and fast enough. So it's vital that legislators and energy planners understand the unique advantages of efficiency.
I am concerned with the above paragraph of the post. Electricity efficiency is perhaps the most important thing we can do, but contrary to the implication above, it too is not "big enough". Nothing is big enough by itself. We need to pursue dozens of things, in parallel, to have a chance of solving this problem. We've got to stop thinking in terms of point solutions.
To illustrate this, consider passing a massive electricity efficiency program in 2009 that makes 2010 lower than 2009, and 2011 lower than 2010, and so on. Suppose further (unrealistically) that 100% of the reductions are applied to coal power plants, our dirtiest. Suppose we do nothing else about our other GHG emissions during those years? Unfortunately population growth eats up the gains from efficiency. A detailed spreadsheet model of this confirms this. In a scenario where we get from 12,258 kWh per capita in 2005 to 10,065 in 2015, 8,622 in 2020, and 7,444 in 2025, total GHG emissions drop by only 1.8%, 5.3%, and 7.7% respectively from 2006 levels. This is nowhere near enough, and this is a very aggressive efficiency schedule. You don't need the spreadsheet to understand this. Coal power plants are only 27% of our US total GHG emissions. Drive them to zero, and you've only gained 27% reduction, and kWh per capita numbers such as the above doesn't drive coal to zero (in my spreadsheet it is reduced 53% in 2025). If the other 73% of GHG emissions simply grows with population (by 8% in 2015, 12% in 2020, and 17% in 2025), then eat up most of the reductions.
We absolutely have to address other emissions in parallel with electricity efficiency. That includes 16% from gasoline transportation, 6% from diesel transportation, 3% from jet transportation, 11% from natural gas residential/commercial/industrial combustion, 10% from methane emissions, 8% from coal/petroleum used in industry, 5% from N2O, and 2% from Hydrofluorocarbons, Perfluorocarbons, and SF6. We need renewables to replace the coal that efficiency cannot eliminate, and we need renewables to power the conversion of our transportation fleet from fossil fuels to electricity. We need high speed rail to replace air travel where possible, and we need more efficient air travel. Some of these things must be started in 2009 or 2010 because they take time to scale up. One cannot do efficiency first, and renewables second; they must be done in parallel.
To illustrate the scope of the problem, California is developing a plan to reduce 2020 emissions by 174 MMT CO2. There are items on the list that are as small as 0.15 MMT because many small things can add up to big numbers. You need to think this way to succeed. Similarly, you cannot ignore jet fuel consumption just because it is only 3% of emissions; you need to look for reductions even in sub-1% items.
On Report highlights vital fact on energy: Efficiency gets cheaper the more you spend on it posted 11 months ago 5 ResponsesHow about Fran Pavley?
Fran Pavley, the author of California's AB1493 and AB32, may deserve some of the credit you give to Mary Nichols. Nichols is somewhat controversial in California, as she promotes hydrogen vehicles over electric ones, and that is delaying a core solution to our greenhouse pollution.
On Vote for the top eco-hero of 2008 posted 11 months, 1 week ago 22 Responseswhy first to go
What's your explanation for why green is always the first to go?
We live in a plutocracy with the dressed up as a democracy. The status quo has power, and does not relinquish willingly. It uses Madison Ave techniques to keep people voting against their own interests. Mostly that works. Green is not the status quo, and is out of power, so it is fighting against Titans. Green may yet win because the Titans are fouling things up so badly that it may become apparent to the people despite the propaganda to the contrary. The only question is when it finally is apparent to the people, will it be too late?On Economic downturn and falling oil push green off the priority list, yet again posted 1 year, 1 month ago 8 Responses
regulation vs. cap-trade schemes
In a world where we have plenty of time to make the transition from greenhouse polluting energy to renewable energy, cap-trade schemes (e.g. cap-grandfather-trade, cap-auction, cap-auction-rebate, etc.) might be the best way to go. However, the current situation is so dire that it is unclear that such system can respond in time. Such systems work best at influencing new investment decisions. Unfortunately, the world has existing infrastructure that is currently adding 2.2 ppm of CO2 to the atmosphere each year, and the amount is growing every year (though the financial crisis should set back emissions for a couple of years). At this rate we will reach 450 ppm in less than 30 years. Thus our past investment decisions need to be undone; modifying future investment decisions will take too long. In the next 20 years we must close most fossil plants. Any scheme that does not shut down greenhouse polluting plants in short order will be a failure. By this criteria, it is unclear that any of the cap-trade systems will actually accomplish their goal. Most likely it will be necessary for the government to "bail-out" the owners of fossil plants, e.g. by buying them to shut the down. I don't like this one bit, but events of recent weeks suggest that this is the way it will play out in "Democracies" such as ours.On Why current cap-and-trade proposals are more tax than trade posted 1 year, 1 month ago 2 Responses
CO2 leads and lags
You're completely missing the point.On Author and physicist Richard A. Muller chats with Grist about getting science back in the White Hous posted 1 year, 1 month ago 15 Responses
adopting California's AB1493 would help though
As another post said, "the Earth is round".
However, California's AB1493 would make a difference. CARB's rulemaking under AB1493 for passenger cars and light duty trucks under 3751 pounds was for 205 g CO2e/mi in 2016, and 175 g CO2e/mi in 2020. That's the equivalent of 42.1 MPG in 2016, and 49.1 MPG in 2020.
Trying to use gasoline price to raise MPG is like pushing on a rope. The US has the worst vehicle efficiency standards in the developed world (including China). We could fix this with strokes of a pen.On A price on carbon will not tackle transportation pollution posted 1 year, 1 month ago 10 Responses
Why can't they learn from California's experience?
When California addressed its greenhouse pollution in legislation (e.g. AB32, SB1368, AB1493, SB107, AB1407, SB1, etc.), it didn't pass a cap-and-trade bill. It passed a cap, but it left it up to state regulatory agencies to figure out how to meet the cap. Cap-and-trade is one option for the agencies, and not the one the regulatory agencies are working the hardest on. Congress should take note. They'll get a lot more done leaving the details to others.
Efficiency is a huge help, and that's why so much of California's regulatory agency efforts are directed that way. However, at best it is only half of the solution. That's why the alphabet soup above included SB107, California's Renewable Portfolio Standard.
Rather than try and pass cap-and-trade legislation, Congress and the White House should:
1. Allow/require the EPA to enforce the Clean Air Act (as directed by the Supreme Court in Massachusetts v. EPA), e.g. getting much tougher standards than the new CAFE;
2. Adopt California policies, incentives, and regulations (e.g. Negawatts first) at the Federal level, including Title 24 and Title 20 and all the legislation listed above;
3. Convert the US passenger fleet to PHEVs from 2010 to 2050;
4. Fund Smart grid with V2G build out;
5. Fund HVDC grid build out;
6. Enact a Federal Renewable Portfolio Standard;
7. Buy out and shutdown Fossil power plants to remove generation no longer needed from #1, #2, #6;
8. Enact incentives for Reforestation;
9. Improve US agricultural practices;
10. Limit biofuels to Ag residue feedstocks;
11. Use U.S. trade leverage to encourage countries that export to the U.S. to adopt greenhouse pollution policies such as our own.
12. Use U.S. government purchasing power to jumpstart deployment where possible.
13. Begin research on atmosphere to below ground sequestration of carbon (not CCS, but rather how to drawdown what is already emitted).Efficiency is built into #1, #2, #4, and #5.On Ignoring efficiency, conventional wisdom holds that climate action will raise energy costs posted 1 year, 1 month ago 3 Responses
see also
The American Denial of Global Warming, a one hour lecture by Naomi Oreskes.
On Two new pieces delve into the denial industry posted 1 year, 1 month ago 2 Responsesit would be nice, but how likely?
Go to http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/ and scroll down a lot and look for their probability graph for the Senate. They project 56-42-2 right now (58-42 if you count Sanders and Lieberman as Ds). The probability of ≥60 on the graph looks about 20%, ≥59 is about 33%, ≥58 is about 43%, and ≥57 is 53%.
The only good news is that on a few issues, Senators Collins, Snowe, and Specter might vote with the Ds. A little less frequently Senators Voinovich and Hagel might join a vote for cloture.
On Republican congresscritters are in serious trouble posted 1 year, 1 month ago 5 Responsesthe bench is the issue
The point is that McCain and Obama are, at least rhetorically, engaged. Ready to go.
I admit that the stated willingness of the candidates is necessary but not sufficient. That willingness (if sincere--look at 2000 for a case when it wasn't) means nothing if the "bench" is unwilling.
I believe that part of the problem in American politics of the last few decades, is that Americans, unlike Europeans, do not realize that in voting for a President, they are not really voting for an individual, but for a Party. The President is just one part of a package, because with the President comes a whole set of members of the same party who then occupy the appointed positions in government. Thus with Bush2 you got the junior folks of the Ford/Bush1 administrations taking over. During Bush2 these people were even more of a problem than Bush2 himself (e.g. Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Feith, Rove, Ashcroft, Yoo, Gonzalez, Cox, and so on). Senator McCain himself may not be so bad (though I would say he is seriously confused), but his administration will necessarily call upon the Republican party bench to fill the appointed positions of government, and those people are largely anti-science, deniers, ideological, militaristic, and dangerous. This "bench" is exactly the sort of people who are hostile to the very functions of government that they would be called upon to oversee, just as Christopher Cox has done nothing at the SEC to avert or mitigate the subprime crisis, because he is ideologically incapable of of believing the markets are not best left alone. This is the sort of person that Senator McCain would have available to fill appointments.
If Senator McCain calling Governor Palin an "energy expert" is indicative of the sort of people he would appoint, then we are in deep trouble.On Savvy citizen asks the right question about climate change at debate posted 1 year, 1 month ago 3 Responses
CO2 leads and lags
They actually show that temperature leads CO2 levels and as such CO2 can't be the cause of temperature trends.
You are missing the simple and important notion of positive feedback. You presume that the mechanism is one or the other rather than both. In the paleoclimate record it is clear that greenhouse gases can drive temperature (e.g. this is a leading hypothesis for the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum), and it is likewise fairly clear that temperature can drive CO2. This bidirectional effect is the result of positive feedback: temperature affects CO2, and CO2 affects temperature with the net result that a small change in either results in a larger total change (an amplification).See http://www.skepticalscience.com/co2-lags-temperature.htm for more information.
The rest of your comment is outright false.On Author and physicist Richard A. Muller chats with Grist about getting science back in the White Hous posted 1 year, 1 month ago 15 Responses
The problem with solar...
solar energy is still way too expensive and is unlikely to make economic sense for at least another decade
Your comment suggests you are lumping the hundreds of kinds of solar together. There is PV, at least 4 kinds of CSP, many sorts of CPV, CSP+TES, and so on. Some are quite cost-effective, and certainly less expensive than nuclear. Get out and look at the facts on Stirling Energy Systems, Ausra, BrightSource, SkyFuel, Sungri, CoolEarthSolar, etc. etc. etc.
How many people will we try to condemn to poverty because we are pushing the false idea that CO2 emissions are driving global temperatures?
Oh, now I see you're just a run-of-the-mill denier. No wonder you have trouble with facts.
On Author and physicist Richard A. Muller chats with Grist about getting science back in the White Hous posted 1 year, 1 month ago 15 ResponsesUS debt increased by 5 trillion 2001-08
If you go to the US Treasury website and ask for the history of US debt, it looks like it has gone up some 4.4 trillion. Add on the 0.7 trillion Paulson Cash for Trash plan and we're at a 5.1 trillion increase. That's a lot more than 1.3 trillion used in this post.On The bailout, the war, and renewable energy posted 1 year, 1 month ago 2 Responses
EPA estimates $2000 billion in net benefits
To illustrate Sean's point, consider that the EPA's estimate of obeying the Supreme Court's order in Massachusetts v. EPA to enforce the Clean Air Act. The EPA found there could be $2000 billion (i.e. $2 trillion) in "net benefit to society".
To make that even more interesting, remember that the EPA's $2 trillion estimate was based upon a 2030 gasoline price projection between $2.22 and $3.20, which seems laughable now.
The question is why the Bush White House refuses to obey a Supreme Court order to enforce the law? Oh, I forgot, they think laws don't apply to the White House.
On Economics of GHG reduction, part bazillion posted 1 year, 1 month ago 5 Responsessad when a Professor peddles bad information
A. The affordable [factor]'s a big issue. The issue is, is clean coal more affordable than solar? Solar is pretty expensive too, and it's not clean either. You've got to build the cells -- that uses carbon dioxide.
First, not all solar is PV, as in the answer given. Second, the lifecycle emissions of PV and Coal+CCS have both been estimated. One journal article estimates PV is 19-59 g CO2e/kWh, Coal+CCS is 255-442. That is an order of magnitude difference. You would think a Professor that has pretensions of advising Presidents would know this sort of thing before implying that these are on par because building PV produces CO2.
Second, the California Public Utilities Commission asked E3 to study emissions and costs of new power generation for California. The levelized busbar cost per MWh were $89.10 for wind, $93.82 for Gas CCCT, $101.82 for Geothermal, $105.54 for Coal ST, $126.53 for Concentrated Solar Power, $153.16 for Nuclear, and $173.17 for Coal IGCC+CCS. In other words, Solar is cheaper than Coal+CCS. But you wouldn't know that from Professor Muller's answer.
A. There's a future for car batteries, but that depends on the development of battery technology that is not in the marketplace yet.
This is an improvement over the misinformation Professor Muller writes in his book, but it is still not accurate. First, in his book Professor Muller slams batteries for having low Wh/kg compared to gasoline, but practical electric cars were built six years and sold to the public using 1990s NiMH battery technology with 61 Wh/kg. Despite the low energy density, the 2002 Toyota RAV4-EV had 4.9 times the energy efficiency of the gasoline version (2002 RAV4 2WD Automatic). The Lithium-Ion batteries for electric cars in the marketplace today are twice to three times that Wh/kg. These batteries have lifetimes that in many cases are so long that the issue becomes will we have to invent ways to move them from our old vehicles to our new ones.
A. The whole idea of "drill, baby, drill" is not that you would actually get huge amounts of fossil fuel that way, but that you get enough so that we're no longer at capacity -- some excess capacity and the oil prices will drop. And I think that's probably true.
How does Professor Muller's opinion compare to the estimates of the US DOE EIA? They write,
The projections in the OCS access case indicate that access to the Pacific, Atlantic, and eastern Gulf regions would not have a significant impact on domestic crude oil and natural gas production or prices before 2030. Leasing would begin no sooner than 2012, and production would not be expected to start before 2017. Total domestic production of crude oil from 2012 through 2030 in the OCS access case is projected to be 1.6 percent higher than in the reference case, and 3 percent higher in 2030 alone, at 5.6 million barrels per day. For the lower 48 OCS, annual crude oil production in 2030 is projected to be 7 percent higher--2.4 million barrels per day in the OCS access case compared with 2.2 million barrels per day in the reference case (Figure 20). Because oil prices are determined on the international market, however, any impact on average wellhead prices is expected to be insignificant.
It seems to me that Professor Muller is giving a political answer, not a scientific one.
A. Hansen I've known for many years. He's a very good climate scientist, but he's decided to do the politics. I feel that he's doing some cherry-picking of his own [when it comes to the science].
Professor Muller does plenty of cherry-picking in his book. Having read both Muller's and Hansen's work, I would say that Hansen's is a lot more professional.
You can find more detail on Professor Muller's cherry-picking at http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2008/9/15/131736/938 and http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2008/9/15/133219/223
On Author and physicist Richard A. Muller chats with Grist about getting science back in the White Hous posted 1 year, 1 month ago 15 Responsesthere will be a moment we stop pumping petroleum
A different way to look at it is appropriate, IMO. At some point we will stop pumping crude from the ground because either (1) there is no use for the crude anymore, or (2) pumping it from the ground is more expensive than synthesizing it from CO2 and wind/sunlight. There will still be crude in the ground when either #1 or #2 happens; we will simply leave it there.
For example, wind/sunlight can make gasoline for about $8/gallon. When gasoline reaches $12/gallon, demand will already be down a lot, but some company will still decide to build the wind/sunlight to gasoline plants to sell it at $10/gallon instead, and thereby start shutting down uncompetitive crude oil production.On Oil economist denies peak oil posted 1 year, 1 month ago 14 Responses
Natural Gas Vehicles
I don't understand the hesitance to use natural gas as a bridge fuel.
If you read the analysis, you will see it is not objecting to using NG to fuel cars, but that it shows that it is twice as good to fuel electric cars on NG via the grid, as it is to burn NG in internal combustion engines.
Why would you want to waste half of your NG and generate twice as much CO2 per mile?
On Pickens' natural gas plan makes no sense and will never happen posted 1 year, 1 month ago 16 ResponsesThis is not new
Please see http://www.omsolar.net/en/omsolar2/roof.html for a Japanese company's solution to the same problem that's been around for years. The question is why it hasn't been done more?On Solar PV + waste heat posted 1 year, 1 month ago 9 Responses
shale?
I just thought of another possible explanation for McCain's claim about the U.S. having the largest oil reserves in the world. What if he means Green River basin? Perhaps some "Shale, baby, shale" oil executive got to him? The oil there is estimated to be several times that of Saudi Arabia. Of course it is climate death to extract it.On McCain claims U.S. has 'the world's largest oil reserves' posted 1 year, 1 month ago 5 Responses
Heh Bob
David, you're right of course. I try to use the most aggressive numbers I can find for H2 FCVs because then no one can argue that some technology is going to make it better. I don't actually believe that H2 FCVs will close the gap to being only 2x better, but by using such aggressive data, I avoid the back and forth of someone saying "the fuel cells will improve" and so on. 78% of HHV efficiency for electrolysis and compression and 60% of LHV for fuel cell peak are not likely to be exceeded, IMO.On Electric vehicles crowd out hydrogen brethren at sustainable driving conference posted 1 year, 2 months ago 27 Responses
Why H2?
I want to reduce pollution as much as anyone.
EVs do this better than FCVs because they are more efficient.
Honda is leasing FCX vehicles right now.
They are putting prototypes in the hands of drivers to get real-world data. Most indications are that these vehicles cost many hundreds of thousands of dollars to produce. There are fuel cell lifetime and cost issues still to solve.
The follow up is adding wind-solar H2 generators to the H-grid, reducing back end pollution.
But if all the aggressive goals for electrolysis and fuel cells were realized, it would take twice as much wind and solar to power FCVs compared to BEVs. This makes them a poor choice.
On Electric vehicles crowd out hydrogen brethren at sustainable driving conference posted 1 year, 2 months ago 27 Responsesillogic of the hydrogen crowd
Hydrogen has more energy per unit mass than other fuels (61,100 BTUs per pound versus 20,900 BTUs per pound of gasoline).
Your original claim was "Hydrogen packs more energy per unit volume than any other fuel." You said volume, not mass.
The energy density of the fuel storage hardly matters. Our family has 83,000 miles on a practical Battery Electric Vehicle that uses 61 Wh/kg batteries and gets approximately 230 Wh/mi motor to wheels despite the mass penalty. Modern LiNiCoAl batteries are as much as 175 Wh/kg, which only makes EVs more practical.
At 175 Wh/kg, 150 miles of range in a 200 Wh/mi sedan requires 171 kg of batteries. The FreedomCar goal for H2 storage is 2000 Wh/kg, so the same range would be 15kg. To this add the fuel cell mass (FreedomCar goal 325 W/kg, so 50 kW is 154 kg) and now you've got 169 kg for the FCV. It's a wash.
On Electric vehicles crowd out hydrogen brethren at sustainable driving conference posted 1 year, 2 months ago 27 ResponsesUnderstanding hydrogen inefficiency
Because BEVs and FCVs are identical in most respects, and a FCV is essentially a BEV where some (but not all) of the batteries/capacitors have been replaced by a hydrogen tank and a fuel cell, and the plug is optional (but probably desirable), it is straightforward to compare the vehicles. Use an identical 200 Whe/mi for motor to wheels. The DOE's FreedomCar's goal for fuel cells at their peak efficiency is 20kWhe of electrical output per kilogram of hydrogen fed into it. Thus to power the wheels one mile we need 10g of hydrogen (or 100 mi/kg). FreedomCar's goal is still a ways off (the best current FCV is at 68 mi/kg). Next, according to NREL, "An efficiency goal for electrolyzers in the future has been reported to be in the 50 kWh/kg range, or a system efficiency of 78%.". Thus 10g/mi of hydrogen to operate a FCV of the future requires 500 Whe/mi at the electrolysis station. This is a factor of two higher than the BEV requirement, which would be 229 Wh/mi at the plug and 247 Wh/mi at the power station. If hydrogen production occurs at the renewable electricity plant, then we should factor in H2 pipeline efficiency (e.g. 4% loss), and if not we should factor in grid efficiency (7% loss), for delivering the electricity to distributed hydrogen fuel stations (making FCVs 539 Wh/mi). At best, if the research goals are someday achieved, FCVs require 2.2× as much renewable electricity production. Powering the US 2050 vehicle fleet with hydrogen and FCVs would require 2107 TWhe/year of renewable electricity production, compared to 964 TWhe/year for BEVs. Using Concentrated Solar Power (Stirling dishes) as a renewable energy example, FCVs would need 8226 square miles, compared to 3765 square miles for BEVs. What is the justification for consuming this additional land and habitat? Wouldn't this additional land be better used toward solving our electricity greenhouse gas emissions, instead of wasting it on inefficient FCVs?
FCVs will also cost us much more to drive. Twice the renewable electricity requires twice the land area, and so the cost must be at least twice per mile. However, this does not include the cost of the capital plant to produce hydrogen from renewable electricity. NREL estimates this adds $1.74 per kg of hydrogen. Using $0.07/kWhe as the power plant cost for renewable electricity, and adding in the $1.74/kg, gives 5.5 cents per mile, 3.2× times the BEV cost of 1.7 cents a mile. These calculations are based upon the cost of production; retail markup for hydrogen is likely to be higher than the retail markup for utility electricity, which would widen the gap further. Why should we burden our citizens and our economy with three times the cost?
Will improvements in technology make renewable FCVs more competitive? Basic physics suggests this is unlikely. FreedomCar's goals are already aggressive, at 78% efficiency (of HHV) for electricity to compressed hydrogen, and 60% (of LHV) for hydrogen back to electricity. The laws of thermodynamics do not allow such conversions of the form of energy to be perfectly efficient and in the case of hydrogen FCVs we are starting with liquid water and the exhaust of the vehicle is water vapor, and so the energy of vaporization (the difference between the LHV and HHV, 18% for H2) must come from somewhere. Electric vehicles are fundamentally more efficient.
It may be that we eventually invent a technology that directly produces hydrogen from sunlight, bypassing the generation of electricity. Such technology and would not be subject to the above analysis, but other considerations apply. First, the Stirling Energy dishes are 30% efficient at converting sunlight into electricity; to match BEV renewable electricity land area, such technologies would have to be 60% efficient at converting sunlight into hydrogen. Second, even if hydrogen is produced directly from sunlight and water, the most efficient use of it is to convert it to electricity in stationary fuel cells and ship it over the grid to BEVs. Stationary fuel cells (e.g. for distributed generation) will always be more efficient than mobile fuel cells, having the advantages of:
- scale (MW vs. kW);
- higher feasible operating temperature (e.g. solid oxide or molten carbonate cells);
- weight insensitivity;
- less cost sensitivity; and
- the ability to recover energy lost as heat from steam turbines (as demonstrated in trials).
- scale (MW vs. kW);
good answer
Nice answer Umbra. If there are vegetarian/vegan restaurants in Ben's area, then dining there can give you additional ideas. The possibilities are amazing.On Umbra on shifting to vegetarianism posted 1 year, 2 months ago 19 Responses
A few points
The cost increase for electric cars of comparable range speed and size is many times $2,000.
First, for pure EVs, the Better Place model is that you pay for the battery pack and electricity on a monthly basis for less than what you spend on gasoline. This is a cost savings.
Second, plug-in hybrids reduce the battery pack size, so that up-front cost increase is minimized, and that increase is recouped in much lower per-mile costs. For detailed data on CV, HEV, PHEV-20, and PHEV-60 costs, see http://www.epriweb.com/public/000000000001000349.pdf
On Pickens' natural gas plan makes no sense and will never happen posted 1 year, 2 months ago 16 Responsesillogic of the hydrogen crowd
Batteries weigh a lot. An empty battery is as heavy as a full battery. Hydrogen packs more energy per unit volume than any other fuel.
When the facts are against you, make up something? Is that your strategy? The LHV of H2 per liter is nowhere near the best among fuels.
Clean hydrogen -- generated by wind or solar and created from water -- can be just as easily added to the Hydrogen Grid as the Electric Grid.
False. It takes 2-4× as much renewable energy to fuel a mile of fuel cell vehicle driving as it does to fuel a mile of electric driving. Thus it is 2-4× harder, at least, to create a clean hydrogen infrastructure.
Generators of any type can store energy as hydrogen more efficiently and in larger quantities more cheaply than in batteries. That means a standard -- even a coal generator -- can run at an optimized level, creating hydrogen to handled baseload.
False again. The 2-4× efficiency difference makes makes hydrogen 3-6× more costly per mile than electricity. The efficiency from power plant to battery output is about 80% efficient. The path from power plant to fuel cell output is about 20-39% efficient.
Hydrogen can also be generated in a loosely coupled grid -- by homeowners. Who can use their own, or purchase it. And it doesn't necessarily require a connection such as a pipe or wire -- it can be delivered by truck.
But it will take 2-4× as much power from the grid to fuel a mile as driving directly on grid electricity. It is grossly wasteful to use hydrogen.
On Electric vehicles crowd out hydrogen brethren at sustainable driving conference posted 1 year, 2 months ago 27 ResponsesMeanwhile, back on planet earth...
Let's get some facts straight. Electric cars charged from the US grid are much cleaner than gasoline cars. The 4.9× efficiency advantage of EVs more than outweighs the dirtiness of coal.
Don't believe me? Ask the US EPA. Go to http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/sbs.htm and click on 2002, then Toyota, and then RAV4 EV. Next click on Compare side-by-side, then 2002, then Toyota, then RAV4 2WD, and then Automatic. You can't get much more apples-to-apples than this. Note the efficiency difference: 112 MPG vs. 23 MPG (4.9×). Note the Wells-to-Wheels greenhouse gas emissions: 3.9 tons/year vs. 8.0 tons/year.
Please also see Figure 2-4 of http://www.epriweb.com/public/000000000001000349.pdf which makes clear that plug-ins beat hybrids.
So cut-out with the EV misinformation please.On Electric vehicles crowd out hydrogen brethren at sustainable driving conference posted 1 year, 2 months ago 27 Responses
The candidates missed a great chance
When asked about how the CDO bail-out was going to have to curtail spending, the candidates dodged the question, and thereby missed a great opportunity to reiterate how much money we can save by being green. Remember the Wall Street Journal reporting the EPA estimate of $2 trillion net benefit to the US for following the Supreme Court's directive to the EPA to get off its butt and regulate greenhouse pollution? $2 trillion is a hefty sum, even on Wall Street. Unfortunately Darth Vader stepped in and told the EPA to cut it out and disregard the Supreme Court on his watch.
And remember, the EPA estimate was with a 2030 gasoline price projection between $2.22 and $3.20, which seems laughable now.
Moving ahead on greenhouse pollution is the smartest economic move we could make.
On Question posted 1 year, 2 months ago 4 ResponsesBatteries and discharge
edarnold41, you state that Li-Ion batteries have memory, which is not true. You are thinking of NiCd. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-Ion_batteryOn Physics For Future Presidents twists facts on electric vehicles and nuclear blasts posted 1 year, 2 months ago 9 Responses
energy density is not everything
vaklbs, please note that I was the author of Confusing Future Presidents, not Joe Romm. Joe cross-posted it here from ClimateProgress. I agree with you about energy density. The 2002 Toyota RAV4-EV in my garage has its 63Wh/g EV-95 batteries, and it works fine. Professor Muller is criticizing Li-Ion because it is only 160 Wh/kg. I apologize if my rebuttal seemed too roundabout.On Physics For Future Presidents twists facts on electric vehicles and nuclear blasts posted 1 year, 2 months ago 9 Responses
estimates of CSP+TES are published
There are many published estimates of CSP and CSP+TES cents/kWh. For example, Ausra estimates that they could supply 92% of the US grid 365x24 using CSP+TES for 7.8 cents per kWh. NREL has estimates for CSP of 5 to 7 cents per kWh in 2020.
TES has the potential to improve costs by allowing the turbines to be used more hours of the day (up to 24).
CSP without TES power plants are disadvantaged in cost per kWh than other plants because their capital investment must be charged against operation a fraction of a day, instead of over 24 hours a day. In some sense this results from the artificial separation of conventional plants into baseload and peakers. If you build a coal plant, a paired peaker is essentially required. It would be more appropriate, IMO, to lump these two plants together, rather than keeping them separate. It is the cost of power from the combination that is relevant.
One reason Ausra sees Thermal Energy Storage (TES) as important to bringing down the cost of their Concentrated Solar Power plants is that it allows them to amortize the capital cost of turbines over a larger number of hours per day. For example, in a CSP plant without TES, the capital cost consists of the collectors (cost C) and the turbines (cost T). Then C+T is amortized over 12 hours a day (and only at peak power for part of that). The cost per kWh is proportional to (C+T)/C. The cost is reduced if you add TES (cost S) where S<T. For example, double the collectors, and now you can run your turbine, say, 8 more hours a day. The capital cost is 2C+T+S and the cost per kWh is proportional to (2C+T+S)/2C. Triple the field relative to the turbine, and now you're running 24h a day: (3C+T+2S)/3C (breakeven is still S=T).<p> The above is a simplistic analysis, but it should give the idea. I would imagine, for example, that it would often be a good idea to have two turbines per field: you run both during peak load, and shut down one when load falls off. Then you have (6C+2T+2S)/6C and you've got a combined baseload+peaker (breakeven S<2T). This sort of CSP+TES should be compared to baseload+peakers, IMO.On So how much do renewables cost anyway? posted 1 year, 2 months ago 30 Responses
plug-in hybrids would do yet more
He should have had a bar for adding plug-in hybrids in addition to the CAFE. The potential for oil reduction from plug-ins is enormous. This has the effect of reducing gasoline prices, reducing the trade deficit, putting more money in consumers' pockets, and sending less money to OPEC. Strange that the government hasn't been moving on this.
On Drilling offshore vs. fuel efficiency posted 1 year, 4 months ago 12 Responsesno mention of AB 493?
How about analyzing why the feebate bills in the legislature never get anywhere? For example, there is AB 493: http://tinyurl.com/5au687
On How to reduce California auto emissions faster than Pavley posted 1 year, 4 months ago 2 ResponsesMalthus wrong?
Malthus should be read as exponential growth forever is clearly impossible in a finite world. How could that be wrong? High school students have all the math they need to calculate when a given growth rate has the mass of any quantity exceed the mass of the Earth (e.g. the mass of humans in 3500 years at 1% growth). Unless we escape the planet, growth must stop.
The mistake is to predict the end of growth early. When you're wrong, foolish people conclude growth will never end instead of realizing you made an incorrect assumption for some parameter and were off by a few hundred years.
Take merely the time that certain land has been continuously farmed in China (the subject of D.F.H.King's wonderful 1911 book, Farmers of Forty Centuries). Just 1% growth for 4,000 years multiplies what you start with by 192,972,369,947,315,104.
Malthus talked about a shortage of food. Clearly when insolation per person-day falls below 8 MJ per person, we can no longer feed ourselves (and that only if we can convert sunlight into food at 100% efficiency instead of the 0.1% that plants achieve). (This calculation, using Earth's 3850 ZJ/year insolation, yields 3500 years again.) Practical limits are obviously much sooner.
Growth is possible for short periods of time (centuries). Then comes collapse, dark ages, wars, depressions, etc. to wipe out growth and keep things within bounds. There is no mathematical escape from this reality.On Revisiting Malthus posted 1 year, 4 months ago 21 Responses
Tragedy of the Commons
The ocean is our largest commons (though the atmosphere rivals it). So it should not be unexpected, given the Tragedy of the Commons theory, that it is one of our largest tragedies.
The Aeschylus of the 21st century won't write about the house of Atreus; she'll write about the sea and the air.On Farm animals consume 17 percent of wild-caught fish posted 1 year, 5 months ago 13 Responses
Expectations
sindark said, "In many cases, such lifestyles will need to be rendered economically impossible."
Perhaps it would be better if such lifestyles were changed, but you have a lot of work to do to convince anyone they are economically impossible. Saying it doesn't make it so.
I currently fuel my cars with sunshine. It heats my house too. What is uneconomic about this? In fact, once the rest of the nation switches to electricity to fuel passenger travel, it will actually be saving a lot of money. The 2002 Toyota RAV4-EV costs 2.4 cents a mile to drive using 8 cents a kWh. Compare that to the 2002 Toyota RAV4 at 17.7 cents a mile, or the 2008 Toyota Prius at 8.9 cents a mile. It only takes 13,631 mi2 of wind farms to power U.S. 2050 vehicle miles if they are electric, and only 682 mi2 is not dual use (e.g. you can farm or graze the same land).On Day four of the UN Dispatch-Grist collaboration posted 1 year, 5 months ago 10 Responses
So who dies?
Mad Mac said, "Because without modern farming techniques, there's no way to feed 7 billion people."
In 1910 the population of China was 410 million. That was 43 per km2.
In 2007, the world was 45 persons per km2. It might be feasible to feed the world with 1910 Chinese agriculture. However, you might not like it.
On The costs of unsustainable agriculture posted 1 year, 5 months ago 31 ResponsesFarmers of Forty Centuries
In 1911 D.F.H.King wrote a book called Farmers of Forty Centuries Or Permanent Agriculture in China, Korea and Japan. King commented at the time that our Ag was unsustainable, whereas the Asian methods had demonstrated sustainability (as in the title). It was fascinating to read that people were paying for the right to clean out the toilets of cities to haul the stuff back to the farmers. The stuff was black gold to them.
On The costs of unsustainable agriculture posted 1 year, 5 months ago 31 Responses