Comments Bud Dingler has made

I am a long time beekeeper and have waded through the continual cesspool in the media about the so called vanishing bees. the reality of that story is a loss did occur in winter 06/07 and its pretty much over except bloggers who recycle this story over and over and over again. 

i flew out to CA that winter of 06/07 and mingle with leading bee researchers. Being that close to the story I know so well how the media and bloggers have twisted that story for the hype it generates and the political agendas of a variety of groups. I'm not saying we all should not be concerned about pollinators but the premise that sits potentially a canary in the coal mine of unprecedented environmental disaster is a joke and the same hyope the AGW extremists spout.  

WIth that in mind its not hard to figure how twisted and out of touch this story of AWG has become. Even you SKyHunter an apparent civilian have been turned into a rabid extremist unable to ponder the scientific process or consider new data.

Just the title of this article says it all "climate denial" pretty much sums up the close mindedness of some people. BTW does Umbra have any science credentials? What would she know anymore then another blogger or media person? 

The reality in science is that a hypothesis like global warming is always being tested and in this case new data either confirms or denies the current thinking.�

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The problem with Grist and its contributors is they are radically resistant to scientific discourse and would lead you to beleive its a slam dunk and we know for 100% sure what is happening to the climate.�

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Here is a link to another view that suggests we really do not fully understand how global climate is affected by a variety of variables.

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http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http://jp.dk/opinion/kronik/article1809681.ece&sl=da&tl=en&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

I have no doubt Umbra has nothing but good intentions. Blogging about topics you have no knowledge of can be problematic. Grist had become full of recycled in accurate information on a variety of issues and resembles one giant echo chamber at times. 

As per the observation on Monarchs, in the upper midwest we have seen fewer butterflies and moths in the last 2-3 years.  Part of the problem is colder then usual back to back summers in a row does not help their reproductive cycle and in general these pollinators have a cyclic life where they eb and flow over a long time period.. Other likely causes of declines are the increased use of insecticides used on alfalfa and soybeans in late summer to combat aphids. These bugs came on the scene in the late 1990's and have created a crisis for all pollinators due to the increased use of insecticides during their peak mating season. 

Most midwestern beekeepers are well aware of this problem and try and keep their bees away from those two crops in late summer. But other wild pollinators are not so lucky to have humans intervene on their behalf. We face some serious issues in the future as the rural landscape becomes more and more sterile and critical habitat is lost to a variety of uses. 

Thank you for admitting that we're no where close to having even a concept of how to harvest crops on a large scale more efficiently then a combine.�

In my business being pragmatic is a requirement as hopes and dreams don't grow well in soil.

I am probably more in tune with Tom than my cranky old messages imply and consider Tom's voice important to get the word out.

I'm here to keep things honest and ask the hard questions. Organic and some sustainable practices just don't always make sense in a particular situation given climate, crops, skill, finances and most importantly markets. IF you live 200 miles from a metro you're not going to get the premium you need to make it go with a more costly sustainably or organically grown crop or product.�

biodynamic is great for vinters who are swimming in cash on the west or pacific NW coast as they can afford to play around with a concept that has little if any scientific proof as it adds to their label story and makes some people all warm and fuzzy,�that kind of nonsense adds nothing to the bottom line in many markets in the heartland.�

Some folks in the city think for instance �going organic is as easy as saying for example I'm going organic and have no clue what that means to mitigate pests, fungi and related crop growing problems. Successful organic farming is a skill and I admire those who can make it work and get certified and be profitable. �Organic apples for instance are almost impossible during wet years in the northern regions of the USA unless of course you can make a living on a 35% packout.�

Many of these Ag systems we want to change evolved since WWII and any level of progress will also take 60 years to get in place in my view.�

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Its Dingler first name Bud.

I am NOT a conventional farmer, I just live in a large community of conventional farmers and must get along with everyone who is related to me or friends etc and the county government.

I use a IPM regime that allows me minimal use of chemicals for my fruit. Its all about the timing, like sex. Anyhow your comments about viable alternatives is offensive if you are NOT a farmer. What would you know beyond some stuff you read on the internet or a sustainable ag degree if a method is viable or not? 

Suggesting Acres USA is laughable.While they have some legitimate titles and authors on farming they also hawk twilight zone materials like homo-pathy and biodynamic and other voodoo science that would guarantee to drive a profitable business into the ground.

I'm sure you mean well as do many commentors but seriously spend some time in rural America and come to your senses before expounding on how someone else should run their life.

I'm still waiting to here from Tom or a commentor on what alternatives we have to combines for harvesting wheat or oats and beans in the future. Regardless of the amount of acrage nationwide we are suggesting as optimal it comes down to large pieces of equipment can get the job done more efficiently then hand labor. BTW I know what hand labor is all about in the fruit business. Most white folks will not do hard labor 60-80 hours a week. Many Latino and other immigrants do this work and are very hard workers and I admire them for that......they do not have the luxury of a fancy wifi computer and sit around all day telling other people how to grow food and expoiund on topics they no very little about. 

I do support small farms like my own and feel we need more of them around urban areas. That in itself will not feed most people and Industriual like farming will continue. My  big point is Agriculture is a continuum and there are many shades of grey that work for many different growing zones and climates. One size does not fit all and organic will never replace conventional large farming. The sooner the so called sustainable or green movement figures out that we are not going from one extreme to another - but rather find some more common ground - the sooner we will create more progress.

Grist is one example of extremes - some of us farmers find great humor here as we see the silly and unrealistic ideas that are floated here. But day dreaming has its place - thats were creativity and new ideas are borne.

Tom�

you comdem the diesel sucking combine. Ok please please inform me a country boy and producer just how we will feed the country with less diesel.�

For the sake of keeping this simple, lets assume the crops we are talking about are corn (feed corn or sweet corn) and soybeans. So the question is if not using a combine then just what are you suggesting? �and if you can point to some examples of this being done currently that would make this more credible.�

Other then harvesting by hand I am not familiar with alternative methods of harvesting corn and soybeans that are more efficient then diesel powered machinery.�

�

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what a joke - drinking milk and eating meat = cancer

just like the unfounded claims I read here about GMO = sick people

i live in Heartland of America and run a small farm. I drink lots of grass fed milk (1-2 gal per week) and eat grass fed meat and so did my pappy and his pappy and his pappy. maybe its in our genes but they lived into their 90's. 

there's a lot of purported wisdom here but very little to back it up - mostly anti everything hype. 

it aint that hard to determine real food from crap if you grew up in the country. its the city folks who are more easily confused. 

me thinks right now WA has other problems to worry about

What a fairy tale....

seriously look at this graph recently updated

http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/rss-may-2009.png

if you can have an open mind you can see that we might be back into the old "window" of normal temps ocsilating between plus 0.3C and minus 0.3C. 

its a THEORY folks - means we are always considering new data to see if it fits our hypothesis. could go either way considering the potential affects of the drastically reduced sunspot activity. 

what would Joe say ten years from now if we stay in the old window of plus and minus 0.3C? 

us farmers really like it when folks like Alida who probably are sitting in a cozy coffee house sipping a $6 latte tell us how OUR world rotates. I just got off the phone with a beekeeper in the midwest who reiterated that bee prices are down due to the flood of healthy hives. most beekeepers have the best looking bees in years. problems in our industry are cyclical and that can be found in the historical accounts dating back to the 1800's where massive die offs occurred and were unexplained. if GMO's and chemicals were the ROOT and SOLE cause of bee mortaility would we not have continual losses? Whats really funny to most of us beekeepers is the continual insistence that there is a ongoing bee crisis. Btw who realizes that honeybees are non native to North America?

Alida

with all due respect the premise you are working from that bees are still in trouble is deeply flawed. 

the bee industry is not in turmoil and bees are not dying anymore. most of us have extra bees to sell of to the huge increased interest by hobbyists. pollination prices for almonds and fruit trees was also way down this spring. but yet blogs and some news wires and publications like Salon continue recycling old stories and bogus theories.  what I see is an agenda of blaming anything on conventional farming practices by some groups and the honey bee is the poster girl for that endeavor. 

I am heavily involved with bees as a full time career and have been my whole life. there is a lot of inaccurate reporting on the bee story. like would we really expect the media to understand beekeeping? the story of missing bees has a lot of traction and draws from a doom and gloom outlook on the climate and environment.

likewise some of the reporting on AGW also is flawed and politicized. 

As a proffessional beekeeper for over 50 years and someone with a PhD in biology I can tell you this question has been rigidly looked at by leading bee researchers and discounted for several reasons.

Here is a syonpsis of the research below:  Oh and by the way theres also a tiny problem with the argument about GMO corn pollen and bee losses. Except in southern states honeybees rarely if ever visit corn. There is no nectar in corn for bees - ever hear of corn honey? Plus the pollen is very low nutritionally, only in severe droughts and some situations in the south will bees visit corn for pollen. 

i agree with Anastasia and others - the bogus claims from Tom L and Jill R are speculative in nature and there is no research or science to back up any of their claims just politics and hype. 

By GALEN P. DIVELY
Extension Pest Management Specialist
University of Maryland 

Colony Collapse Disorder (CCD) has caused much concern among beekeepers nationwide and it is not clear to date what is causing the die-off. 
Genetically modified crops, specifically Bt corn, have been suggested as a potential cause of CCD. While this possibility has not been ruled out, the weight of evidence based on a multitude of studies argues strongly that the current use of Bt corn is not associated with CCD. 
The hazard to bees due to any potential toxicant depends on toxicity and exposure. The endotoxins currently expressed in Bt corn (Cry1 types against caterpillars; Cry3 types against beetles) are not biologically active against hymenopteran insects such as the honey bee, nor do the CCD symptoms resemble those expected in Bt intoxicated organisms. Exposure is also very low because the expression of endotoxins in pollen is barely detectable in most Bt corn hybrids and corn does not produce nectar. 
For these reasons, bees are not commonly found foraging in corn fields. Some argue that the increase in bee loss has paralleled the increase in Bt corn in the United States; however, severe bee losses have occurred in Europe and in areas of Canada where Bt crops are not grown. 
What do the scientific studies say about the issue? Numerous laboratory studies have examined the potential non-target effects of Bt corn on honey bees by feeding high doses of the pollen or purified endotoxin mixed with honey or sugar syrup directly to larvae in brood cells. This approach is a standard protocol for Tier I testing of non-target effects on bees and required by EPA before insect-resistant transgenic crops are approved for registration. 
Published studies and other technical reports submitted to EPA have all shown no adverse acute effects. In particular, recent laboratory studies in New Zealand and Switzerland exposed bees by feeding on pollen treated with purified Cry1 endotoxins at doses considered well above the maximum environmental exposure levels encountered in the field. Results showed no negative effects on bee survival. 
Laboratory feeding studies at the University of Maryland also showed no effects on the weight and survival of honey bees feeding on Cry1Ab-expressing sweet corn pollen for 35 days.
Potential sublethal effects of Bt corn on honey bees have also been addressed, but not as extensively as the acute effects. 
For newly-emerged bees, the presence of Bt proteins in ingested pollen may affect hypopharyngeal gland development and thus the ability of nurse bees to make brood food. 
However, the same studies in New Zealand and Switzerland reported no effects of Bt pollen or endotoxin on hypopharyngeal gland development of newly-emerged bees. 
Results of another recent study conducted in indoor flight cages showed no effects of Cry1Ab protein exposure on mortality, syrup consumption, or learning capacities of free-flying honey bees, but foraging activity was slightly reduced. 
A two-year field study (soon to be published in the European bee journal Apidologie) conducted by this author and his graduate student represents the first attempt to expose functional colonies of honey bees to Bt corn pollen under open field conditions. In this Maryland study, colonies placed in Bt sweet corn plots were allowed to forage on corn pollen and also fed Bt pollen cakes for 28 days. The pollen cake consumption alone represented approximately 44 percent of the expected daily pollen requirements of each exposed hive.
Results showed no adverse effects on bee weight, foraging activity, colony bee strength and brood development.
Although there is no evidence thus far of any lethal or sub-lethal effects of the currently used Bt endotoxins on honey bees, insecticidal products expressed by other transgenes in crops may need extended field testing on a case-by-case basis to assess the longer term consequences of sub-lethal changes in colonies and subtle modifications in bee behavior.

Dear Bart

based on the comments here, yours is the only one that I would define as a troll since you offered no real insight to the discussion. 

good article but as a proffesional beekeeper I disagree on the pollination part. The same stories are being recycled about bee losses but the realty is much improved and is demonstrated by the fact there was an over abundance of bees available everywhere this spring including almonds and poillination prices are down dramatically. 

there is no crisis in the bee world, and while insecticides do play a role in the losses they are not the sole or leading cause. the sole cause for losses is beekeeper applied chemicals to treat for mites. other important factors are a loss of habitat and then corresponding decrease in nutritional diversity. 

if european honeybees dwindle the more aggressive and robust africanized honeybee will take over which it is doing already in the deep south and southern CA

Laughable is right. 

http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/47411,news,british-press-gets-swine-flu-hysteria-over-mexico-factory-farming

" Indeed, there are, presently, some good reasons to doubt any such connection: at the time of writing, two weeks into the outbreak, the Mexican authorities have not found a single pig infected with the flu virus in Mexico, far less at the Granjas Carroll farm. And none of the workers at the farm has thus far fallen ill.

More to the point, there is as yet no evidence that humans contracted this strain of flu from pigs – whether by eating pork or handling the beasts themselves. As Dick Thompson of the World Health Organisation says: "There is no association that we've found between pigs and the disease in humans."

Where are the sick CAFO workers in USA or south of the border? This is all a figment of someones imagination and undermines attempts of reform in the Industrial Ag complex by playing. he fear card. I highly doubt Tom has any credentials to make these speculative claims and using the term "facts" in the heading of this post.  

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124105320874371313.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

" Mexico's top government epidemiologist said Wednesday that it is "highly improbable" that a farm in the Mexican state of Veracruz operated by Smithfield Foods Inc. is responsible for the nation's swine-flu outbreak.

Miguel Ángel Lezana, the government's chief epidemiologist, said in an interview that pigs at the farm are from North America, while the genetic material in the virus is from Europe and Asia." 

In my view Grist has devolved into a tabloid of sensational news stories that seek to rip any corporate entity thats involved in food. 

hello folks 

we're talking about a virus that infects humans that originated from a combination of swine/avian/human strains. no animals are sick - read the news reports. 

this topic is almost off topic on a site like Grist - except its a topic because of some hyper extrapolation from the author of the post. If you have a science background you realize that Grist is mostly long on hyper extrapolations and short on facts.

we don't see the CDC telling us to run far and fast from porkers or birds do we ?

no proof

the scientific facts concerning GMO's have never dovetailed with the ethical and political concerns of the left wing.

I admire Pollan for not subscribing to this fear based nonsense. most of the so called peer reviewed claims trotted out by the opponents of GMO are typically misstatements from papers that are twisted to fit their own agenda. the latest example is greenpeace and others trying to make hay about GMO corn leading to sterility in mice. that paper was thoroughly debunked by a peer review as being weak on the statistical confidence and needed more work. never no mind that greenpeace has a web site article titled no need for condoms eat GMO's On Grist cooks lunch for America's leading food writer posted 10 months, 3 weeks ago 11 Responses

pie in the sky

while I support sustainable farming on a small scale its beyond me what you all think we can do to replace industrial farming.

in my state we have a huge organic veggie farm which supplies many stores.

the produce is expensive and a considerable amount of hand labor is required. this is not food that lower income people can afford.

i also interact with a large organic corn and bean farmer. most often his crop is compromised by a big weed infestation during wet humid summers and he has large yield losses . i just don't see where you all think this could go in a different direction.

so lets take conventional soybeans as an example. what exactly is the sustainable version that you all think is better then a no till roundup ready version?  no till and roundup cuts down on diesel fuel regardless of the much spouted myth that roundup ready means more inputs.

i see a lot of finger waving here but I don't hear any credible ideas of how we are going to replace conventional as we know it today with what? and please don't tell me organic is going to replace conventional the yields are just not there, nor are the economics of producing affordable food. On Searching for the hope in Obama's USDA pick posted 11 months, 1 week ago 4 Responses

Obama's Genius

is hi Centrist ideals and the realization that the environment and agriculture is a continuum.

as I have said many times, we're not going to feed the world with a roto tiller, hoe and Rodales Guide to Organic Gardening, neither can we ignore or own sources of oil and natural gas and the need to keep our economy going.

the extremist positions found on Grist are simply to far on the continuum and thankfully Obama has more sense then that to realize its better to make some progress then to push an agenda that is unlikely to succeed. On Not-so-deep thought posted 11 months, 2 weeks ago 7 Responses

so what alternative fuel technology

exactly are we proposing with all the hand waving here?

fuel cells?

electric cars?

no real savings there - still have to produce the hyrdrogen or electricity.

sounds like a pipe dream to think all of sudden we will not need oil.

granted for home heating we have some options like solar. I just don't see the obvious answer provided - just a lot of hand wavingOn It's time to break the American addiction to oil posted 1 year, 2 months ago 12 Responses

lets all come back

and revisit this discussion this feb after one of what looks to be the coldest winters in a while is set to begin in a few months. anchorage AK has had one of the coldest summers on record, most of the US had a real cold spring and now fall is coming early.

are we beginning a long multi year sunspot minimum? do we know all there is to know about or planet - I think not. what a joke a body of science that is basically in its infancy and we got people foaming at the mouth over a theoretical graph. On Earth hotter now than in past 2,000 years posted 1 year, 2 months ago 32 Responses

FWIW: many of the "local" farmers

at our farmers markets also qualify for WIC assistance if they have kids.

what does that tell you? On Can sustainable farming provide a sustainable living? posted 1 year, 3 months ago 26 Responses

the dreamers

would say we can grow all the organic greens we need to feed the world in tiny back yard plots with a hoe and roto-tiller.

grist is full of doomsday technology rants like

"or those who may not be up on the scientific lingo: irradiation is the use of high-energy Gamma rays, electron beams, or X-rays (which are all millions of times more powerful than standard medical X-rays) to break apart the bacteria in food."

does the poster have any scientific credentials to evaluate irradiation's safety? On Starting today the FDA will allow producers to use irradiation on lettuce and spinach posted 1 year, 3 months ago 8 Responses

game over

turns out the information NRDC is looking for is ALREADY published

The Journal of Economic Entomology, June 2007 pages 765-772,  "Exposure to Clothianidin Seed-Treated Canola Has No Long-Term Impact on Honey Bees" by G. Christopher Cutler and Cynthia Scott-Dupree of the University of Guelph, in Canada.
On EPA knuckleheads hide info on pesticide implicated in colony collapse disorder posted 1 year, 3 months ago 14 Responses

touche'

Contrary to internet scuttle there is only ONE CCD working group in the USA.

People Like Joe Cummins so called Bayer expert

http://www.i-sis.org.uk/requiemForTheHoneybee.php

phony as a $3 bill

and Dr. Gabriela Chavarria, director of NRDC's Science Center have no history or credentials in honeybee or pollinator research nor have they ever published any peer reviewed articles on honeybees.  But various organizations and political groups and blogs like Gristmill attempt to give them some credibility on honeybee issues when they have a message that resonates with their agendas.

The real members of the CCD Working Group formed in early 2007 are:  

Bee Alert, Inc
Jerry Bromenshenk,  
Colin Henderson
 Robert Seccomb,
Larry Tarver
Scott Debnam

Florida Dept of Ag
Jerry Hayes

Penn State University
Diana Cox-Foster,
Maryann Frazier,
David Geiser,  
Nancy Ostiguy

Penn Dept of Ag
Dennis vanEngelsdorp

USDA/ARS  
Jeff Pettis

contact any or all and you will find out quickly that Bayer products are of concern but not in the top 3 issues being pursued as there is no chemical evidence that the materials are in hives.  Sorry NONE!  I wish there was as a beekeeper but it just ain't so.

Oh and I would not expect a non-bee expert to have the sources for the real deal on Bayer in Germany but here we go:

There was only a temporary suspension of the use of certain pesticides on treated seeds inspecific types of pneumatic seed drills in Germany.

We have all been misled by a press that should fact-check more, and use more precise language. We have been further misled by people with agendas that don't really have any interest
in the facts when the facts don't match their agenda.

Here's one reporter who got his facts straight:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/25367916

"Germany..... lifted a temporary ban on some of Bayer AG.'s insecticides for the treatment of canola seeds...

Bayer's corn seed treatment Poncho, together with three other corn treatments, remain suspended until better seed treatment and sowing methods have been developed..."

More than just neonicotinoids were subjected to the
temporary suspension.

What was the common factor between all these different pesticides? The "seed treatment and sowing methods" mentioned in the article.

Why were some of the pesticides taken off the suspension list?
The article explains clearly:

"...on the canola products was now lifted because the ventilation used in corn sowing machines, which aggravated the spread of the insecticide, is not used in canola sowing."

Further, we have the original suspension order from Germany's BVL, which when combined with the MSNBC report, gives a much more clear impression of the intent of the temporary
suspensions:

"The enquiry showed that the use of pneumatic sowing machines of a particular construction type for the sowing of seeds treated with insecticides led to a higher degree of bee exposure than was hitherto assumed in the registration process."

So, Germany suspended only the planting of these seed treatments with specific pneumatic drills.  The pesticides were still "approved for use" by farmers who use non-pneumatic
planting equipment.  

But don't expect anyone to pay any attention to the facts, as facts are rarely provided in blogs like gristmill its mostly preordained ideas that one crams the so called evidence into.

The simple fact is that we have two issues. In Germany a misapplication occured and caused a loss. This is really of no interest to the CCD question. It was a mistake! Kinda like who cares..... a seemingly one time affair that will be rectified, not the source of a lawsuit by NRDC. Its hardly even a relevant point!

The real story of interest relative to the NRDC claims is the sublethal and long term effects of systemic insecticides in the environment. Systemic means using the plant as a delivery mechanism for this new class of chems.

Really I don't know why a blogger with no science or bee experience wades into this arena its quite complex.

Most of the bee loss information online is WRONG! or incomplete or BOTH!!!!

the really big issue is the documented contamination of bee hives by beekeepers themselves!!!!!!!!!! But that just does not fit the agenda of many people, blogs or organizations so it gets no air time.

Again here is a real issue

http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/1524991/honey_bees_s ...

These legal chems were registered as a Section 18 emergency 20 years ago!  The emergency now is the massive and widespread contamination. Some estimates suggest that 80-90% of the honeycomb where the bees live in the USA is contaminated!

Lets get these materials delisted!!!!!!

The Bayer "noise" and related NRDC release is really a smoke screen for the Industrial beekeepers who contaminate the combs and then try and blame Bayer and agriculture for their dead bees. I'm serious.....We have DATA on this unlike the Bayer accusations!!!!!.

What's really ironic is that coumaphos the registered EPA chem for bees (trade name Checkmite) is a BAYER product!!!!!! how odd is that?

http://pr-rp.pmra-arla.gc.ca/PR_SOL/pr_web.ve1?p_ukid=387 ...

I could go on but I have my bees to tend to........On EPA knuckleheads hide info on pesticide implicated in colony collapse disorder posted 1 year, 3 months ago 14 Responses

our local

Whole Paycheck store really offers very little in the way of local produce or food. They carry some token local favorites but the dairy and meat is from who knows where.

In the last year as their share prices have plunged the store is mostly carrying the 365 Day label which they own. Its industrial Organic at its finest.

The solution to the companies problems are easy to ponder......stop pushing profits and do things right and the profits will follow. Instead of token local suppliers get real and go after the local producers. On The natural foods giant stumbles into an E. coli outbreak posted 1 year, 3 months ago 2 Responses

TV celebrity chefs

often are morons.

my business was just featured on the food network and the "talent" from FN was a f-ing joke. His claim to fame if his barbacue sauce with HFCS, nice!On Celeb chef clarifies his relationship with Greenpeace posted 1 year, 4 months ago 5 Responses

i think its important to note

that your observations are speculative. you have no study to back up your claims.

once again, another speculative doomsday post on gristmill.

what does not add up is that IN, IL,MN and NE have much higher concentrations of ag land and corresponding chemical usage.

there could be a tie in with some other industrial contamination or other phenomenon we do not understand. On Why are sperm counts so low in the show-me state? posted 1 year, 5 months ago 8 Responses

congress

cant solve SS, health care or other REAL issues affecting all Americans, but yet they are going take up an issue thats still a theory. On Will the Senate ever get to constructive (or destructive) debate on climate bill? posted 1 year, 5 months ago 3 Responses

chicken little

look out the sky is falling!

hahaha you guys crack me up - catstrophic global warming - run for the hills!

I thought Krauthammer offered a rationale view - here is an excerpt:

"Predictions of catastrophe depend on models. Models depend on assumptions about complex planetary systems -- from ocean currents to cloud formation -- that no one fully understands. Which is why the models are inherently flawed and forever changing. The doomsday scenarios posit a cascade of events, each with a certain probability. The multiple improbability of their simultaneous occurrence renders all such predictions entirely speculative."

I'm always amazed how gristmillers are so damn certain of the most extreme predictions. its obvious after a while that most of the contributors have little real world science experience working with theories and developing technology. On The real reason conservatives don't believe in climate science posted 1 year, 6 months ago 7 Responses

junk farm bill

Pelosi and the rest of her ilk are a disgrace to this country. I cant beleive this is happening. I would not support that piece of crap bill just on principal.

Given the current predicament in agriculture who in their right mind could support all those subsidies?  Its lunacy thats why even GW can see that.

Don't try and make this more complicated then it is - Joe Six pack can see this issue for what its worth. On Why a Bush veto of the farm bill is bad for the food movement (and the world) posted 1 year, 6 months ago 3 Responses

i meet

a lot of people in the sustainable farming movement. I run an organic berry and veggie farm and sell at a large metro farmers markets.

i hate to say it but you can spot most vegetarians and especially vegans coming down the aisle.

many of them are thin with pale complections and sick looking skin sometimes, very few of them look healthy.  I don't have the link handy but there is growing research that vegetarians and vegans suffer from depression and other mental health problems at a significantly higher rate then the general public. if I recall the theory is that a lack of a well balanced diet is the possible reason for higher mental healthy problems.

a real concern is that many people do not have a good grasp of nutrition and how to get a well balanced diet with no meat or dairy. from what I have read its dangerous for children to be eating vegetarian and vegan as their bodies and minds are developing.

if God wanted us to only eat green stuff and fruits we would have different teeth structure. On PETA VP argues vegetarianism is the best way to help the planet posted 1 year, 7 months ago 77 Responses

is everyone a troll who has a different opinion?

more evidence that GMO + organic is a likely balancing act to feed the world

http://www.newsdaily.com/stories/hkg279964-food-gmo-organ ...
On Study: transgenic soy brings lower yields than conventional posted 1 year, 7 months ago 25 Responses

whoa

its a theory, we're still collecting data. what will YOU have to say if we have 3-5 years back to back like the last year?

i'm not saying I dont beleive that we have a building body of information in favor of the theory the climate is warming. still we can't predict the stock market or the f-ing weather in 2 weeks. so i'm supposed to think that your radical ideas of whats happening is some kind of slam dunk the book is closed move on to the next chapter?  really thats laughable.

my point is people can have opinions that vary - when someone thinks its creepy that a young kind is mucking about and getting interested in issues and the kids opinion  is different then their own we have an extremist. you can't cram an idea down someone throat and that what some of you folks come across as doing.

its your way of the hiway. i find bits and pieces of some balanced opinions on here. alot of it is rabid over the top crap.

i have worked in science my whole life and let me tell you that the people who are the most certain about something and have minimal data are usually the ones who come up looking like idiots.

ponder this: could the rate of change be much slower then we think?  could there be some variables influencing the outcome we hardly understand?  

try keeping your minds open and allowing others to have an opinion ........creepOn Skeptic stage dad to impressionable teen daughter: 'MOTIVATION!' posted 1 year, 7 months ago 31 Responses

Blizzard conditions April 10th 2008

he might want to wait on the campaign until a late season blizzard clears the midwest.

jesus we're looking at 14+ inches with 50 mph winds in MN/Wisco.

this global warming theory is a bunch of hooey! what a joke

farmers are now almost 3 weeks behind in the upper midwest. how many years of this weather in a row and we'll be hearing about the next freaking ice age?

lets face it as a Science,  climate change is in its infancy. be humble instead of so damn certain is my advice as a PhdOn How to reach Joe Sixpack on climate issues posted 1 year, 7 months ago 4 Responses

apocalypse?

did the poster read or comprehend the article?

the source of the differential is speculation in the commodity markets.On Soy, corn, and wheat prices puzzling economists posted 1 year, 8 months ago 11 Responses

i'm sorry

but global warming is a theory

i believe the theory is real and we should take steps to mitigate.

however the small amount of data and knowledge we have on this topic needs to be expanded.

of course non-science people won't get this concept. On CO2's connection to global warming is not murky posted 1 year, 8 months ago 6 Responses