Comments ce1907 has made

there are no geniuses

running this little PR drama, believe me

more like a confederacy of dunces

but don't get too distracted by the pyrotechnics

the key issue is "what is the plan?"

most importantly, is there a cap that is real?

Very doubtful.

Will only work if the Big O asserts leadership, says EXACTLY what he wants, and then pushes for it

not  happeningOn Mixing climate and energy legislation in the same bill is not a good idea posted 8 months, 3 weeks ago 10 Responses

Revkin is a pompous dork

obsessed with being the only one who REALLY knows

it is not that hard to understand, Dave, you've known people like that your entire life

we all haveOn He is not 'guilty of inaccuracies and overstatements' and is owed a correction by the NYT posted 9 months ago 10 Responses

DR, you are mistaken

no chance that Congress imposes targets stronger than the Big O pushes for

Big O gives cover

Big O has clout

Congress is full of timid folks who wisely fear the propaganda blitz against them for doing anything meaningful

only the Big O can make it happen

will he?

maybe, but I am not hopefulOn Cap-and-trade rebates to taxpayers favor efficiency over equity posted 9 months ago 10 Responses

no plan has been presented

as I have repeatedly blathered, the only key provision that should be insisted upon by the big O is a strong near-term cap (without offsets and offramps)

The rest can be negotiated for votes.  I don't care who gets rich

the focus should be saving the world.  at least, doing something meaningful in that direction

without the strong near-term cap, any bill will be window-dressing

or just another tax source

no evidence that the Big O is ready to step up, or ever will be ready -- or even interested -- in stepping up

The Big O's guru, B*ngaman, is VEHEMENTLY against meaningful near-term cap

I am not hopefulOn The projected revenue from cap-and-trade auctions is strikingly low posted 9 months ago 9 Responses

RPS is just a smokescreen to put pressure

to get the transmission lines that Big Utilities want

once there is RPS, the theory goes, big transmission lines are necessary to ship renewables from windy states to states that allegedly have less renewables available

the more sincere reform would be feed-in tariffs

then you would give incentive to many small players everywhere

but that does not maximize big utility profits

and is not part of the current planOn Congress starts to outline how they'll meet Obama's directive on climate and energy legislation posted 9 months, 1 week ago 12 Responses

Amazn plan

sounds sensible to me

Have you pressed it to Carl Pope?

He has said something similar, but less detailed (at least what I saw)

Pope has influence.  Get him on boardOn Will U.K.'s prime minister act to address the biggest threat to Britain's youth? posted 9 months, 1 week ago 36 Responses

weasel words

"send me legislation"

will not happen

unless the big O leads -- not sits there waiting to catch the magic bill

never mind "send me" Mr. President

send us

YOUR planOn Obama puts climate and energy atop his priorities list in his first address to Congress posted 9 months, 1 week ago 8 Responses

what will be in the budget

big money for big transmission lines

(saying it is "smart" grid, but nothing smart required, and no talk of feed-in tariff)

(saying needed for big solar and wind
but not identifying specific transmission lines)

essentially funding for the blank check (now being prepared; see hubbub over pushing aside states to site lines; NEPA next) to make whatever is "right"
which we will learn by September just happened to turn out to be what will help big utilities maintain high consumption and utility income

and help the coal companies that supply the utilities

big money for CCS "research"
ditto the mining and utilities

nuke subsidies
to make it bipartisan

what will not be in the budget

insulating homes and office buildingsOn Obama's budget contains carbon auction revenue, but how much will be rebated to consumers? posted 9 months, 1 week ago 22 Responses

it is simpler than that

economists are arrogant whores

and reporters are worse.

Most reporters are lazy, and poorly informed.  They are little better than stenographers.

Half-bright pol staff call reporters and get them to print half-baked quotes ginned up by economists in hock for money or ego or both

in short, process is corrupted and unlikely to be improved.  put no hope in good faith or reformed attitudes

figure out the most important thing you need, and find a way to buy it

good luckOn Some thoughts on economists and climate and so forth posted 9 months, 1 week ago 22 Responses

Hapa, you are wandering off

what DR says is correct

best way to get a commitment to spend on green infrastructure is to put a fence around related revenue

it is a question of what is practical; philosophy has nothing to do with itOn Obama's budget contains carbon auction revenue, but how much will be rebated to consumers? posted 9 months, 1 week ago 22 Responses

spin game

1.  we will be serious if we put something in budget

2.  "something" in budget -- with no detail whatsoever

3.  pre-planned applause

sadly, the devious S*mmers/Orsz*g crowd does not have the same vision of a clean energy economy that you do

think CCS, nuke subsidies, big transmission lines tailored to utility wants

$15 billion per year sounds about rightOn Obama's budget contains carbon auction revenue, but how much will be rebated to consumers? posted 9 months, 1 week ago 22 Responses

arguments round and round

capntrade is a good idea if we can make the cap real

offsets put that in doubt, and should be the focus.  also, safety valve

forget the trade part.  forget who gets rich and what is fair.  if we burn up the world, it won't matter

maybe a good capntrade bill is impossible.  looks that way now because Obama is missing in action

but it is certainly not likely with the Left so distracted.  gibber jabber economics and pie and the sky all day long.  not enough toughness to make the deal that might be possible.  not enough wisdom to see what is essential (meaningful cap, short term) and what is not

as Dave Roberts pointed out a few weeks ago, the carbon tax is a sideshow meant to distract and split and make sure nothing happens

even with a meaningful cap, other things are necessary, of course.  and other things are more likely with the revenues of a capntrade systemOn Eric Pooley offers nine questions on climate legislation that the press ought to ask Obama posted 9 months, 1 week ago 6 Responses

feed in tariff sounds appealing

but how do we get there from here?

isn't it regulated by state law?On Markey on cap v. tax and ways to properly regulate carbon markets posted 9 months, 2 weeks ago 9 Responses

some needs to work on an actual PLAN

this kind of debating society yammering does not move the ball.

Gar may or may not be correct that some big solar and big wind and new huge transmission lines are needed.  I am not convinced, but I don't know.

But even conceding that Gar is generally correct, WHAT do you want to do?

Even if some transmission line is needed, not all are needed.  Not all are a good idea.  Not all will be compatible with a smart approach to electriciy and transportation.

Some might be.  Which ones?

Believe me, the brown Dems are gearing up to demand a blank check for mining, transmissiion companies, and utilities (nukes and clean coal) -- all in the name of a "serious" approach to the climate change problem.

That may pass.  But it will end badly for us and our children (and, yes, the critters).

To stop that rumbling horde, there must be a counter proposal.  A better way.

Some organized vision with organized supporters and organized lobbying and PR.

Instead, we have a babble of amateur commenters (like me).

Not good enough.

Obama should be organizing a plan.  He won't.  He will lay back and let the brown Dem horde roll over the green DFH crowd.  Frankly, the big O has very little use for the green DFH crowd anyway.

If someone is going to offer a plan, then it has to come from us.  (Gore has the money and time, but, apparently, other priorities.  Like commercials with Repubs sitting on couches with Dems.)

Boy, are we in trouble.On Big is beautiful if it breaks our dead-dinosaur addiction posted 9 months, 3 weeks ago 34 Responses

David, a different frame

I am not going to comment on your characterizations of Obama's team.  I disagree, but that stuff is largely beside the point.

Here is something that I think is key:

one side has a plan

the other side does not.

The big utilities and the mining companies are the traditional clients of the energy committees.  Furthermore, they own the current working assets.  They have power and prestige.  They have a plan.

The enviros -- not so much.  The small generation/conservation/local grid crowd:  they don't have a plan.  They don't have an organization.  Hell, they don't even have a common lexicon.

So how do you think this is going to end?

If you use google, you will find that B*ngaman has declared himself long ago.  Much research needed in energy field, i.e., clean coal boondoggles, better nuke plant boondoggles.  Maybe something for the corrupt farm products lobby.

Also, utilities want bigger, badder grid.

So how do you play it?

You have your front organizations commission studies.  Then they release studies to create a news hook.  And the drumbeat starts.  Watch e&e, they report this sort of stuff like clockwork.

Cynically, the utilities and mining industry have learned to greenwash.  What they want is really to promote big wind power.  Or whatever.

And we need to build green buildings, and more mass transit, etc., but the only thing that seems to be big in the budget is clean coal boondoggles and nuke subsidies.

Why is that?

One side has a plan.

And here, the noble unwashed rabble tries to figure a few things out, but we have no organization, no plan, no coherent story.

If you were president, who would you go with?

Don't worry the fluff pieces on personalities, or the Prez's latest rhetorical flourish.

Where is the plan?On The players: Obama's people posted 9 months, 3 weeks ago 5 Responses

stopgreenpath

1.  stop apologizing; it only makes it worse

you are a pain in the ass; it is your karma

2.  stop leading with the sacred wilderness stuff.  most voters don't give a rat's ass

3.  the cheaper and easier arguments are key.  work those.  hard

I am not totally sold on the solar panels are enough to power everything story.  I HOPE it is true.  But we have to be honest about the practical side.  where are the glitches?

4.  less haze about how to get there from here.  step by step.  what is most important.  where is the rule or investment needed.  who is the decisionmaker.  that stuff

we need to focus

5.  to the extent possible, try not to harp on how everyone you know, or anyone else knows, is an A-hole

believe it or not, not the best advocacy

6.  go in peace.  work hard.  don't give up

have a beer once in a whileOn Energy density is not an immutable requirement posted 9 months, 3 weeks ago 44 Responses

why?

why don't you need standards to get going?

ready, fire, aim

if you don't have the standards

1.  industry will not sign on to a hodge podge.  plus, probably a bad idea

2.  you have the "security" issue, that will not be small

3.  maybe you are right.  maybe my understanding is completely whacked.  I don't know very much

WHAT can be done without standards

what needs to wait until standards are in place?On On the verge of revolutionizing the U.S. power grid posted 9 months, 4 weeks ago 8 Responses

Hal

you will notice a couple things

1.  Big O has not sent a capntrade bill to Congress

2.  Big O has not promised to send a capntrade bill to Congress this year -- or any year

campaign promises are for suckersOn How awful does a bill have to get to lose your support? posted 10 months ago 32 Responses

honestly, the emotion stuns me

in general, the goal is to make carbon emissions cost something

as a practical matter, for the next 20 years or so, there is some incremental cost from permit requirements (for the regulated industry) and there is capntrade

this generation will not do a carbon tax.  get over it

any capntrade that will pass in next 5 years will be largely useless, with plenty of hand outs to special interests

maybe it is not worth doing

but if it is worth doing, it is for the following reasons

1.  establishes the idea that CO2 is dangerous, and should be regulated.  and can be.

do not underestimate that achievement

2.  puts in place a regulatory regime that can be ratcheted to some meaningful level when something horrific happens:  polar ice cap is gone forever, Australia turns into a desert, whatever

3.  provides funding for green energy and green transportation

if something happens, it will be capntrade

why go round and round?On Yes, carbon taxes are more transparent than trade system posted 10 months ago 14 Responses

Gar, really

you seem to have gotten a tad emotional about this issue

1.  you need to step back a bit and look at the big picture.  Obama is NOT SERIOUS about taking action on climate.  Look at who he has surrounded himself with, and look at his whole career.  Who does he admire?

2.  see 1.  No capntrade will pass without Obama.  Obama, at best, will support only a weak bill with many offramps.  Oh, and by the way, that whole 100% auction thing in the Iowa primary -- that was just for winning the Iowa primary.  Obviously.

3.  we are doomed.  see 1 & 2.

4.  You are winning, Gar!  You want big transmission lines, to hell with NIMBYs, from giant Nevada solar to LA.  You will win.  Big transmission lines will be built.

but, meanwhile, bigger and better transmission lines for energy from coal plants will be built

5.  big $$ for CCS and nukes.  Because those are things that "real men" like Ba*cus and B*ngaman want, and Obama so admires the "real men."

6.  the last hope of the Greens (aside from Romm, who dreams of huge deals with China leading to nirvana) are the CAA regs

7.  Gar, I know you think nothing could be worse than the L-W bill

wait.  you will find out differentlyOn How awful does a bill have to get to lose your support? posted 10 months ago 32 Responses

I am with you, Amzn

I am a little nervous about the "demonstrations" because they seem necessarily narrow

a certain technology tried somewhere

I am not sure how it advances the ball when the basic computer standard issues (at about 8 separate levels of function) are so uncertain

as I have carped before, those standards seem like the key, and to me they are on the slow track, waiting for industry to sort it out and then for the govt (NIST, then FERC) to bless what industry says

but different industry players have different interests, naturally, so no quick solution is on the horizon, as far as I can see

I think a vigorous intervention on the standards stuff is needed (computer geeks, save us!)

and then massive Fed purchasing of equipment to make it real

as far as I can tell, that is the only way that Stopgreenpath's vision of small, local solar generation could work

where are the damn geeks when you need them

NOW they can get datesOn A chat with Obama's green-leaning liaison to the states, Boulder Mayor Shaun McGrath posted 10 months ago 7 Responses

the key is a near-term cap

Sean,

you worry too much about who will make money

forget the trade; concentrate on the cap

the limit is what is essential, and soon.  the reason to be dour is that B*ngaman is on record opposing any strong cap in 2020 or 2030, and O is letting him take the lead.  that is why no meaningful cap is likely to be enacted in next 4 years; the Big O won't push for it

if we can get a strong cap, I would give away the billions to whomever.

if we don't get a strong cap, it won't matter who is rich.  our grandchildren will be dead

focus on the cap.  snark all you want about the L-W bill, it had a pretty good cap.  Anyway, better than you are likely to see in any bill enacted this year or next

hope I am wrong about that, but

one last defense of L-W:  it forced a vote

all the gang of 10 and many others were happy to glad hand every enviro they met and declare undying fealty to the cause -- as long as it didn't cost them

once the vote was upon them, they had to focus and get real.  that is how the process moves forward; it has to get real

Harry R*id will never get proper credit, but he was the heroOn Can Congress be trusted to get necessary GHG legislation right? posted 10 months ago 8 Responses

point 2 is spot on

no one sees a practical way forward

showing that is the most important.

Various things must be done, of course, as you know.  However, I suspect that smart grid meters are the whiz bang object that people will experience directly and get the idea that practical change is possible -- or not.

Based upon flipping through internet sites (including DOE and industry newsletters), it seems to me that computer software standards are the key to progress.  Cannot buy stuff until there are standards.

I also suspect that standards can be done right, or wrong, with enormous consequences.

Wish we had a computer science contributor at Grist who could birddog the action (inaction).

ps.  NIST report on computer standards for smart grid was due in December (2007 Energy Bill requirement).  Still no report.  And, frankly, I do not have high hopes for NIST process.On What will shift the public's attitudes on climate change? posted 10 months ago 21 Responses

gibberish

kudos for clinging to a failed model?  ridiculous

small stopgap measure.  better than nothing.

but nothing to get excited about

just the opposite

O/Summers clings to the "tax break" model of industrial policy

Ba*cus clings to same because it is his power base (Finance Comm)

B*ngaman clings to it because it favors the big industry types he is comfortable with who are the ones most used to taking advantage of the arcane tax stuff

the tax break model is broke; it went out with the credit market and bubble capitalism

time to get a plan that will work; but it is not in the interest of any of the big boys to think of anything newOn House Ways and Means embraces refundable renewable tax credits posted 10 months, 1 week ago 3 Responses

the whole discussion is irrelevant

Big O has handed off climate policy to the B@ngaman B@ucus crowd.

They want CCS, "research" and maybe some big transmission lines to create a clean energy infrastructure.  Get big money to do things nicer.

The Energy Comm crowd thinks that caps for 2020 or 2030 are "unrealistic."

In short, dither and feed the beast is the Big Boy strategy, and Big O admires the Big Boys of DC the most.

There will be no cap.  Our grandchildren will burn.

Enjoy yourselves while you can.On NRDC responds to criticism of USCAP's Blueprint posted 10 months, 2 weeks ago 29 Responses

Stopgreenpath

I am on your side.

But isn't there some trouble with having the materials to make the pv whatsits?

Also, consider this:  figure out some way to buy off the monopoly utilities.  Figure out some way for them to make an unfair profit out of pv.

Enviros go wild for the punish the guilty ideas.  But you know what, the guilty are pretty powerful.  And they control the media through conventional wisdom (and $).  So most people don't even think they are guilty.

The answer is to be more devious, I think.  Buy them.

It is pennies on the dollar, really.  When you consider what is at stake, the real value of progress v. burning up the planet, just pay.

Down the road (and all along the road), the poor will suffer most.  That is a given.  So try to purchase the best future.  That will be the least suffering for the poor.

A jihad is very emotionally satisfying for many enviros, but it is all theater.  They rarely get anywhere.

What is needed is a very hard-bitten attitude.

Buy off the utilities.  Something in the rates.  Whatever.  But implement your pv solution.  And then hold award ceremonies giving all the credit to utility executives.

They are influenced by ego too.  Sometimes more by ego than money.On A detailed look at building, industry, transportation, and land-use greenhouse-gas emissions posted 10 months, 2 weeks ago 38 Responses

rare moment in history

where a much larger than usual splinter of the general public

actually cares about grid

this is an opportunity

being largely wasted.

There is no organized discussion, and no reduction of key points to CNN level.

where is the leadership?

all we have is a bunch of pompous shallow types yelling "smart grid" as if they knew what they were talking about

and various geeks arguing tiny details that no one who can get a date can bear to listen to

not a good situationOn Small solar needs long-distance transmission as much as big wind posted 10 months, 3 weeks ago 30 Responses

more questions

1.  An intuitive advantage to small local solar/wind is that you do not lose energy sending it hundreds of miles.

Is that irrelevant?  Is there no significant energy loss over distance?

2.  Cities aside, if the suburbs were more self-sufficient (solar/wind in the backyard, plus those small geothermal whatsits), would it reduce peak requirements to a SIGNIFICANT level, and so reduce the need for the extra dirty peak load plants?

3.  Even assuming that cities need to import electricity, why do you think existing wires are not sufficient?

4.  Building huge grids everywhere is going to ignite a NIMBY firestorm, consuming political capital for years, and making enviros look like dithering fools.  You realize that, right?

5.  Assuming we drink the koolaid and decide to swat down bunny rabbits, snail darters, and enviros, does it matter what KIND of transmission lines we build?  I vaguely recall some ranting about voltage something and direct current something else.  Do you have a view?  Is it a significant choice?  How so?

6.  Why does it "feel" like more transmission lines just means let the utilities do what they want, and everyone else get out of the way?

neither

no carbon tax; no capntrade; nothing

it is all dead as a doorknob, Wa#man and Ma4key notwithstanding

the key fight now is probably "a little smarter" grid (enough to keep utilities firmly in control) and a robust, open architecture smart grid that will support small local generation and sale to grid and aggressive efficiency stuff

several hurdles, but most fundamental is the computer standard stuff

bottled up in a cacophony of competing interests, and passively presided over by bureaucrats at NIST whom I am sure will dutifully churn out reports on exciting progress (but never any resolution) for a decade or two

forget the philosophical tax v trade stuff; that is just talk

put brains on problem of cutting Gordean Knot of various computer standardsOn Question of the day posted 10 months, 3 weeks ago 15 Responses

sadly

Ms B is window dressing

not part of ruling cliqueOn Browner included on Obama economic team discussions posted 10 months, 4 weeks ago 4 Responses

comical

out of touch

claptrap

who dreams this stuff up?On Is Ken Salazar 'too nice' to head Interior? posted 11 months ago 4 Responses

be specific, Jon

gross numbers are meaningless

1.  purpose of stimulus is immediate shock to economy by producing jobs and purchase power (by immediately employed)

immediate -- means immediate

road and bridge fixing is already planned, easiest to do.  Also easiest to PASS immediately because it has existing constituencies everywhere (including rural states which, by the way, have two senators each -- brush off your math)

2.  how much money could be spent wisely and IMMEDIATELY on mass transit

what?  where?

if you find the specifics, and it is more than 12 billion in two years (Schumer wants 20 billion) then great
-- say what the good stuff is, and argue for it

not the amount, but the good stuff.  make that the focus

otherwise, no meaningful discussion

just a lot of mindless chest thumpingOn Stimulus spending going to roads? posted 11 months ago 19 Responses

Dave, competence is not the point

neuter EPA by putting in someone with a track record of rolling over

(and let's see those awe-inspiring asst administrator choices -- wait for it)

Interior to a mining/utility shill

B*ngaman's "no near term caps" crowd given every chokepoint on the appt process (staff level)

there is an agenda -- not some divining rod looking for competence

in a year, you will see more clearly.  unfortunatelyOn Where does Interior pick Salazar stand on key environmental issues? posted 11 months, 2 weeks ago 15 Responses

sucking up to the cool kids

let's all be a twitter, of course

but the tiny part about the poisoned kids not being on Lisa's watch -- a lieOn Sussing out some of the criticism of likely EPA head Lisa Jackson posted 11 months, 3 weeks ago 2 Responses

filling EPA with hacks

to neuter it.

a time-honored, and routinely successful, approachOn Politico claims N.J. DEP commissioner Lisa Jackson in line to head EPA posted 11 months, 4 weeks ago 8 Responses

one more spreadsheet

take your plans

and identify the states where the spending would occur, when

re-jigger your priorities to target votes

identify waves of programs (keeping need for votes firmly in mind)

identify constituencies to support first wave

the common good is not sufficient; you must target the common good of elected officials in a position to block the common goodOn Public investment and regulation can be main means to green posted 12 months ago 43 Responses

Prez will not act in a vacuum

there has to be a voice for progessive choices

heard in Congress

otherwise, the other voices will dominateOn Obama talks up electrical grid improvements on cable tv -- seriously, I have video evidence posted 1 year ago 11 Responses

stopgreenpath

where is your bill?

who are the co-sponsors?

Is Bernie Sanders interested?On Obama talks up electrical grid improvements on cable tv -- seriously, I have video evidence posted 1 year ago 11 Responses

should be

but did you notice the "deficit hawk" chatter about the tax extenders

in the course of discussing a bill to give away $700 billion to scofflaw mega-brokers, banks and billionaires?On Disputing Shellenberger & Norhaus, part 2 posted 1 year, 1 month ago 4 Responses

do not succumb to us vs them

Cheney and Bush have always been about replaying the 60s, and winning this time

much of Repub ideology since 1980 is based upon those cultural milestones

rednecks v hippies, army v vietcong, church v atheists, mothers v libbers, white v black

the nonsensical remark about Obama not mentioning "victory" in his speech is about the Vietnam War, and its re-incarnation in Iraq

the derision toward "community organizer" strikes a chord with those who resented the mobilization (and "manipulation") of the poor and the black in the 1960s

Repubs want the election to be about identity politics (most elections are), and want the "issues" to be vague identity-loyalties regarding general topics from the past.  Old prejudices, near and dear to hearts historically

stay calm; talk about the last 8 years, and the situation now

don't call Republicans "scum"On Republicans revert to base-rallying strategy posted 1 year, 2 months ago 19 Responses

your paradigm for progress is flawed

With respect, DR, I think you are confusing your dream of progress with the mechanics necessary for progress.  By focusing upon your dream as the yardstick, you are ignoring the necessary stuff.  Or so it seems to me.

It seems to me that you imagine a holy crusade, slowly accepted by all Dems, and gathering widespread public support, until a big majority agrees, and then Congress, the President and the agencies are swept up in the crusade, and progress is achieved.

Won't happen like that -- for a bunch of reasons.  Some have to do with electoral politics.  Identity politics.  All things to all people electoral messages.  Etc.  So the avalanche of good intentions into a public relations campaign is not a likely scenario.

Also, your imagination of public outpouring turning magically into policy is not the usual path.

Enviros must organize to the task(s).  Some tasks are legislative.  Some are litigation.  Some are PR.  Etc.

Instead of trainspotting rhetoric, you (and Grist) need to cover the organizing -- being done, or not done.  The tasks targeted.  The activities undertaken.  Etc.

I suggested a pilot approach a while back, but there is no one thing that needs to be done, and no one way.  But the organization must be serious, persistent, and open.

One last thing.  Don't believe all those serious policy Dems that you have been hearing.  Most are getting ready to take you for a ride.

Friends are nice, but you don't find them in DC.

If you want power, get a place in the game, play early, keep track, and be ruthless.

No heroism is necessary, or likely.On Where climate/energy issues stand in the Democratic Party posted 1 year, 2 months ago 5 Responses

forget karma

and be careful who you make a hero

pay attention to details in the plan; address it as you would any other

what you think is the start

will be identified as others as the maximum -- the hero said it was all that was needeedOn Grist blogger goes in the tank for evil Texas oilman posted 1 year, 3 months ago 15 Responses

maybe Al

could spare some of the $300 million he is spending to video re-treads on couchs

hmm, well, probably not

Actually, some ad hoc volunteer groups are probably best.  new blood every few months

hit and run advocacy coverage

could be a class project for a college class researching political activity

hell, a bunch of dedicated high school seniors could make the calls, and make the lists

send to the adults at Grist to make it public

shine a light where traditional media is darkOn In either an Obama or McCain adminstration, climate legislation will be back-burnered posted 1 year, 3 months ago 33 Responses

Jon, Gar and Wolverine

Jon,

You are an incurable egghead.  Your question supposes that the key to progress is unraveling the metaphysics of the political moment.  Too complicated.

The real keys are diligence, common sense and elbow grease.

It is frustrating that so few people here (or anywhere) seem to understand the power of the grass roots to affect Congress, or how it could be done.

Starting with basics.  The money interests are most powerful when their lobbyists are whispering in the dark; progressive activists (and conservative activists) are most powerful when choices are openly and loudly discussed.

Figuring out how to apply some light in the way that will do the most good requires some understanding of the process.

Many folks imagine all Congressmen bought and sold by contributors.  Not directly.  The bigger reality is mass confusion.  Congressmen are way over programmed.  No way can anyone be informed about all the things that they have to pretend to be informed about.  So they look for cues.

On big issues (like war), public opinion is directly relevant.  But on geeky policy, like energy bills, Congressmen look to the leadership, which, as a practical matter, means the committees.

Most choices about what to be FOR are made in committee.  Later, you can vote against what the committee proposes, but very difficult to add new things.  Technically possible, but a mess.  Not the best place to try to target your influence.

If you want to affect legislation, you need to try to affect what comes out of committee.  Timing is crucial.

You need to have proposals early, and be criticizing the specifics of other proposals early.  Many choices get baked into the drafting.  Small phrases can make a big difference.

How to do it?  First, you have to establish that you are a player.  Best way to do that is to show you are paying attention.

As a practical matter, to be a player you need three things:  a phone, a computer, and a popular website.  It is very low tech.

You have to make telephone calls, and keep lists.  Very tedious.  Vitally important.  

No one is doing it.

Few want to.  No glamour.  Not what attracts people to politics.  Someone like Wolverine would do it, but few others.  And those few don't live in DC.

Here is how it can work.  

You get a good proposal.  That is what Gar and you are supposed to do.  Look at other, earlier proposals.  Talk to folks.  Figure out what is important.  Draft something.  Circulate it.  Get allies in enviro community.  Get someone like Sanders to introduce your bill.

Now you have something pending in committee.

Next comes the hard work no one does.  Call Congresmen on committee.  Ask their position.  Make lists.  Tabulate positions.  (Adjust bill if seems reasonable and helpful.)  Then go on your popular website and summarize the situation.

what are key issues?

who is where on what?

what alternatives seem to be the rival approaches?

Then you can rabble-rouse, get emails to flood Congress, etc.

But the main thing is to persistently pay attention.  Keep calling, keep updating the list, make it clear that you won't go away.

A fairly small group of dedicated individuals could use the internet to be a powerful force for good.

Instead, we don't use the internet effectively.  Generally, we remain spectators.  wait till the deals go down, then bitch and moan

Don't wait.  be proactive.  Get ahead.

Grid seems like a good demonstration project because I think others will push it.  Something will happen.  Start now, keep at it, and we could shape it somewhat.

Why don't enviro groups do it?  Rather preen.  Internal politics.  Slaves to birds and bunnies; energy tech stuff too dull.  A hundred reasons probably.

Maybe some enviro is right on it already.  Great.  Promote her.  But I don't know about her, and that indicates a problem.On In either an Obama or McCain adminstration, climate legislation will be back-burnered posted 1 year, 3 months ago 33 Responses

mwildfire

glad to hear about all the things that could be dnne

do it

show us

we'll carry the weight after thatOn In either an Obama or McCain adminstration, climate legislation will be back-burnered posted 1 year, 3 months ago 33 Responses

someone draft Gar's bill

Gar, first, to be clear, I'm all in for cutting the military, taxing the rich, etc.  My view for decades.  But the votes are not there.  Not now.  Probably not for a decade or so; need some generational change in Congress.

Second, big picture, we have to find a way forward that seems feasible, and, eventually, normal.

Wolverine has a point about the money interests, but public ignorance and suspicions are a more substantial problem (exploited by Repubs, Oil, Coal, etc.).  Frankly, one of the suspicions is directed at dirty rotten hippies who want to cut the military and raise taxes.

But, as usual, the uninformed are of two minds (or three or four) on most subjects, and so persuasion is possible -- if you can do it without stubbing your toe on various identity issues.

So, to sum up, how to make solar energy and electric cars seem normal.  Soon.

Third, "pure grid."  Already I am lost.  And I know a hell of a lot more than the general public.

This is one thing that drives me crazy about this site.  

The big problem in Congress is that it is staffed by lightweights whose principal concerns are petty back-stabbing, cautious conventional wisdom, and personal attacks on everyone outside the clique.  So it is a breathe of fresh air to come to this site where noone knows or gives a rats ass about any of the things that consume Hill staff.  Halleluya, here are serious people!

but then

but then

no one has a bill!  No one deigns to get into the mud, figure out specific language, find sponsors, drum up co-sponsors, change the bill in smelly ways to get a few more co-sponsors, blitz offices to get bills through committee, then again on the floor, etc.

Allegedly, there are enviro groups, and they could do this.  But they don't.  They hold parades for the birds and bunnies (good for fund raising) and do multi-hour conf calls blasting each other or congratulating each other

but they don't do geeky energy policy stuff, and then organize support

so I nominate you for the job.  or you and Rynn.  or you, Rynn, and Romm

or someone

isn't anyone willing to do the work to save the planet?On In either an Obama or McCain adminstration, climate legislation will be back-burnered posted 1 year, 3 months ago 33 Responses

right, Gar

but where are you going to get the money?On In either an Obama or McCain adminstration, climate legislation will be back-burnered posted 1 year, 3 months ago 33 Responses

nonsense

no real information in this screed; just barroom opinion

what is done?  by whom?  where?  with what results?

the presence of big groups, and ability to generate a firestorm on ass of pols who suggest brown legislation, has a powerful effect

but you have to measure it against what would happen without them.  hard to measure

Also, challenging agency rules.  important

this type of blanket assault is not well reasonedOn Top heavy? posted 1 year, 3 months ago 3 Responses

the sausage factory

enough with the immaculate conception of the future

everyone imagines the perfect sausage not made in a factory

not happening

we need laws.  think about making some

in general, the tone of Govt and cooperatives hints at animosity toward business and profits.  get over it.  if you get anything done, it will be partly because you find allies who will profit.  embrace them

specifically, start somewhere.  pick one thing, and follow through

concentrated solar needs grid.  you have a champion on the energy comm, Sen. Sanders, who is interested in this issue

get a bill drafted.  address specific questions about funding, and NIMBY, and AC/DC whatever stuff, selling back from locals to utilities. whatever.  find allies.  And then haunt the Congress relentlessly, and flog every action at committee level and beyond at Kos, here, and everywhere you can think of

one last aside:  any significant public investment means nasty ol' capntrade the horsetrading way.  only way you'll raise the funds

that is, if you think action is needed by 2020On Public investment can stop emissions faster than relying on private sector posted 1 year, 4 months ago 14 Responses

sound and fury

Messiah is a good gig

no messy stuff

like counting votesOn Gore at Netroots Nation? UPDATE: Gore at Netroots Nation! posted 1 year, 4 months ago 6 Responses

Rynn and Amazn

how, specifically?

does anyone have a bill introduced?On The current oil shock posted 1 year, 4 months ago 18 Responses

that is why

L-W bill expressly said no property rightOn Clean Air Interstate rule struck down because it devalues sulfur trading permits posted 1 year, 4 months ago 15 Responses

Setb

I do not know, but I suspect Mr. R is preparing to drink some version of the En Comm koolaid.

Sell out the 2020 caps, sell out the states.  DOE will run climate issues; not EPA.

The transport bit is probably to buy off Dingell.

The big push, I bet, will be to actually build nukes.  Not just $$; but changing safety standards and opportunities for local opposition.

Also, aggressive grid building (what kind?) that should benefit wind, and big, big investment in CCS.  More biofuels research, but this is a throwaway for wild-eyes like Ala sen.

Unstated will be small change for household solar and geo systems; serioius money for utility level stuff only.

Huge tax cut; not targeted to poor.

Nothing for reforest; public transit; helping poor countries.

This is the "middle way" that is "possible" as I understand the TPs.  We'll see it fleshed out soon.  Watch PEW and Brookings and RFF.On What the Boxer-Lieberman-Warner bill debate tells us posted 1 year, 5 months ago 27 Responses

alt energy, transit, help poor, reforest

every good thing we want that takes money

will be funded from cap and trade revenue

or very unlikely to be funded

factOn What the Boxer-Lieberman-Warner bill debate tells us posted 1 year, 5 months ago 27 Responses

ps

Reid is a steadfast friend to progressives on climate issues.

fyiOn Moyers talks to Boxer posted 1 year, 5 months ago 8 Responses

how high brow, DR

is "centrist credibility" what is needed?

for what?  what is the goal?

selling "this program"

what program?

wake up.  Congress is a street fight.  no rules; and bring something special

"centrist credibility" will get you the safety valve, no real cap in 2020, and all the REAL money to CCS and nukes, and scraps for green energy

abandon the girl senator, by all means; she is the only progressive fighter in the ring

but don't listen to me; listen to your highly honed political instincts

and gossip of the back-scratching cliquesOn Moyers talks to Boxer posted 1 year, 5 months ago 8 Responses

in the Q&A

not the set-piece opening statementOn A weekly roundup of greenish news from the Capitol posted 1 year, 5 months ago 6 Responses

Jason Grumet

at Dingell hearing

said safety valve was "essential"

what to really expect from the "centrist" Prez Obama

the 100 percent auction pledge is a joke; only the enviros seem not to knowOn A weekly roundup of greenish news from the Capitol posted 1 year, 5 months ago 6 Responses

insider info

be skeptical of trade press

senior staff cliques have well-worn relationships with certain trade press reporters

 the reporter, Samuelson, is the Energy Comm boy

the real agenda is Energy Comm jurisdiction, though Samuelson tries to hide his purpose with distractions about the Finance and Appropriations Comm.  EPW is not competing with Finance and Appropriations.  

The key issues are early CO2 targets, safety valve and preemption.  All things that Energy Comm wants control for oil, gas, coal and auto

This is the set up piece:  perfectly normal for others to want juris

Next, expect attack pieces on competence of girl senator and "process."  Gossip drumbeat:  give big issue to "grown ups" on Energy Comm

real issue:  policy

real target:  progressives

real clients:  oil, gas, coal, autoOn Everyone wants a piece of the climate bill pie posted 1 year, 5 months ago 2 Responses

GreyFlcn

getting to the floor does not just happen

it goes through committee first

what committee?

the staging you see is to push the bill right

you do not understand:  committee juris = policy

the girl senator is being assassinated by other Dems.  it is orchestrated

do not be gullible -- as you usually are notOn Global warming draws heat from Dems posted 1 year, 5 months ago 11 Responses

folks, please

use your common sense

Sen C is not sincere; he is cynical

he thinks it is a wingnut lefty idea that he can use to try to sow dissention and embarrsssment

a poison pill

tells you just how loony he thinks the idea is

he is laughing at youOn Conservative senator offers two progressive amendments to climate bill posted 1 year, 6 months ago 6 Responses

Communist Party in Germany in 1930s

spent its time jockeying with the Socialists.  Stayed pure.  Waiting for the Big Revolution.

1.  There is no support, now, for stronger caps.  All the action is trying to fend off the Energy Committee and the wishy-washy Dems who want weaker and easily removable caps.

2.  Waiting for the Dem Prez is a pipe dream.  Cautious pols do nothing as much as possible.  Especially in thorny political territory -- which this will always be.

3.  Love that strong House bill.  How many co-sponsors?  When will it get to the House floor?  Oh, that's right:  never.

FOE is a force for no action.  Congrats.On Friends of the Earth not all that jazzed about Lieberman-Warner posted 1 year, 6 months ago 7 Responses

repubs not problem

clique of senior dem staff

target the girl

goal business as usual

energy committee next year

goodbye goals, hello safety valve, preemption, next yearOn Club for Growth starts campaign to derail Lieberman-Warner posted 1 year, 6 months ago 4 Responses

try a dry sherry

you need to relax

making senators vote on a big climate bill makes a big difference

it will change the dynamic of the discussion in the Congress and the country

if you do not understand why, then you don't pay attention

I assume that you pay attention, so something is stressing you.  hence my recommendationOn Time to focus on tax credits, not Lieberman-Warner posted 1 year, 6 months ago 2 Responses

I pray no one here was surprised by Hillary

Hillary and Barack are both cautious, centrist pols

I voted for Obama

But his choice of advisers on environment and energy give me pause

And CTL -- I just close my eyesOn A gas tax holiday would be cynical and indefensible posted 1 year, 7 months ago 19 Responses

Big Tom is correct

cynical and half-arsed, as usual

last year's "cure" for high gas prices was ethanolOn Proposal to curb prices not likely to include 'gas tax holiday' posted 1 year, 7 months ago 7 Responses

Sen B planted the story

Sen B is trying to foster a "groundswell" for his safety valve.  Sen. V is a bit player.  Sen. B is the puppetmaster in this drama.

Samuelson does not mention Sen. B because Samuelson is protecting his sources.On New Senate alternatives to L-W would take climate policy backwards -- way backwards posted 1 year, 7 months ago 4 Responses

get busy

all help apprciated

but keep in mind where we are, and where we are headed

most assume that the bill moves left next year

the opposite is likely

Energy Committee is looking to take control of this bill

And Energy will sabotage the vote to bolster its claim to next year, if Energy can do so without fingerprints

Energy's top priority will be to protect fossil fuels and nuke energy, and to kill alternative energy with EXTREMELY small favors

A bad vote this year is probably a pit from which progressives never recover

fix L-W as best you can as fast as you can

there is a bear in the woods (Energy Committee) and it is a ferociious beast

most Grist fans have no idea what world they live inOn Lieberman-Warner criticism, Part 2 posted 1 year, 7 months ago 18 Responses

no time

boil down your five most important points

suggest legislative language for the fixes

contact NRDC or other big enviro group, ask them to pitch it

you have about a week to get doneOn Lieberman-Warner criticism, Part 1 posted 1 year, 7 months ago 9 Responses

bad news, JR

get ready for safety valveOn For Nanosolar, the future is municipal solar power plants posted 1 year, 7 months ago 10 Responses

vision is a curse, Pangolin

but at least it's a livingOn Gore's Alliance for Climate Protection unveils ambitious $300 million ad campaign posted 1 year, 8 months ago 18 Responses

Bernanke is a twit

But not half the twit that Greenspan was when he gave the green light to the Bush tax cut in the early days of 2001 when a firm "no" would have rallied the timid Dems

Remember, Greenspan said that there was a terrible risk that we would soon run out of public debt because of the budget surplus

The press bought it, and the pols hid

But mostly it passed because THE PUBLIC WANTED TO BELIEVE IT.  Money back from the Gov, hurray!

In these situations, it is not just what is "true" that matters.

It is trying to arrive at sensible policies in terms acceptable to public prejudices.

My guess is that bringing all credit creation under one regulator (probably the Fed) is a no-brainer, and imposing standards and regulation on the credit evaluation services like Standard & Poors are reforms that will gather support.

Demand will need pumping.  Green infrastructure makes sense.  Pitch it "responsibly" to generate jobs and do good things.  (Avoid claims for values beyond common sense and helping people.)

Pray that we get lucky for reasons not presently apparent.  It is better to be lucky than good.  

Being able to say I told you so has its appeal, but the satisfaction is slight next to the misery and fear bound to follow a real depression.On A few thoughts for environmentalists posted 1 year, 8 months ago 95 Responses

tell Congress

seriously

who is your lobbyist?On Car plant cuts energy costs $627,000 with two-month payback -- with DOE help posted 1 year, 8 months ago 5 Responses

Grist = Inhofe PR machine

All the public will hear is that cap and trade will raise costs for ordinary citizens, and it is bad.

Inhofe has cynically made the same argument from the start.  Check the record.

So what is the drumbeat?  No Dem should support anything less that 100% auction immediately.  Great.  Effective phone banking.  L-W gets a bad vote, or gets pulled from consideration.

Where are you next year?

What is the hook for journalists?

What is the alternative bill?  Who are the co-sponsors?  Who in industry supports it?  How do you get past regional concerns?

You have no plan.  You do not even understand the game.  Or who the players are.  And you do not try to find out.  You just debate hypotheticals.  Pathetic, really, if the consequences were not so severe.

If you want to slow climate disaster, you need to put together a motley coalition of powerful interests who might all support a first step toward carbon regulation for their own reasons.

Believe me, everyone in that coalition will be out to screw each other in the details.  

You should be trying to find out what is possible, and try to help get the best out of the scrum.

Instead, you just amplify Inhofe's PR campaign.

How noble.On The core progressive issue in the fight over climate legislation posted 1 year, 9 months ago 25 Responses

good idea

write the bill

get it introduced

gather co-sponsorsOn How smart climate policy can cut our energy costs posted 1 year, 9 months ago 4 Responses

thanks for the post

there are struggles that matter happening in the Senate

it would be nice if a few at Grist were to take sides in a useful way

instead of constantly bleating about the moral imperative of an immediate tax and rebate bill, which will never pass and never come close to passingOn A safety valve in Lieberman-Warner is senseless posted 1 year, 9 months ago 24 Responses

JR, look hard at the here and now

I have heard of public opinion pressuring Congress.  But it is not a simple, straight line.

As you know, if you think about if for a minute, the world is chaotic, and there are always lots of things going on.  Interests and opinions converge, diverge, personalities come in and out.

So pls do not suggest that we just need to sit back and wait for the genius of tax and rebate to sink into the popular consciousness, turn into a social movement, and promptly make Congress do the right thing.  You know better.

Everybody knows better.

We are at a particular moment for various reasons.  First, scary, visible things are happening in the Arctic, and scientists have organized to bitch about it.  Second, the Euros have done a dry run, and make regulation seem possible.  Third, many large corps made big bucks in Europe and want to repeat the killing here -- thus organizations supporting climate legislation.  Fourth, AB32 in CA makes reg seem possible in America.  Fifth, Gore has won awards.  Sixth, Congressmen have climbed all over each other trying to soak in the publicity associated with climate issues, holding many hearings, causing more publicity.  Seventh, Sen. Warner decided to break ranks with Repubs, give a bipartisan air to a prominent climate bill, and pull a few Repubs to the cause of climate change.

For these reasons, and a few more, there is an opportunity for meaningful votes in the Senate.  An important measure that will make senators commit to things.  It advances the debate, and makes a law closer.

The issue is whether to engage in this process, or to shun it, and opt out for the longterm, progressive goals of social and political revolution followed by election success followed by a "true" climate bill in a hundred years.

How much time do we have?  How long can we wait?

We must try to take all the political actors and maneuver them to the world's best advantage immediately.

Or we can do nothing and stay pure in our dreams.On Cali EJ groups reject cap-and-trade in strong terms posted 1 year, 9 months ago 28 Responses

setb

I suppose you are talking about the McCain bill

It was never a Repub bill; got virtually no Repub support.  I think it might have gotten 30 votes once.

L-W is more progressive in several respects.  Still, I wonder if the current version will get 40 votes.

Your bill may be brilliant, but I doubt it could get 5 votes.

Prove me wrong.  I would love to be wrong.  Get Sen Sanders to introduce it.  Let's count the votes.On The major differences between carbon pricing plans are political posted 1 year, 9 months ago 16 Responses

Patrick and Amazn

Patrick,

Your views are consistent, and I respect that.  But in my view, you are missing a key point.  The poor will be hurt by climate change.

Stopping, slowing, starting to slow climate change is an over-riding crisis -- or not.  

If it climate is the true crisis, then it is THE priority -- and my position is stronger.  If not, then your position is stronger.

Once you reach a decision that climate change is very, very scary, and very, very bad for everyone (my hysterical view), then you have to take a steely look at the votes.

Starting in the Senate, where the action is for the moment (and until Dingell leaves office), there is no support for tax and rebate.  No support for cap and trade (100% auction) and rebate.  No support for turning the economy or the social order on its head.

I don't mean that there are not 60 votes.  I don't mean that there are not 40 votes.

There are not 10 votes.

If progressives win a decade of elections, then it will be 2020 and I doubt you will be to 20 votes.

To insist upon such a program is to simply take yourself out of the game.  And to deny support to the far left of the Senate -- which, sadly, is still on the right.

But do not take my word for it.  Get Sen. Sanders to introduce the Grist bill -- tax and rebate.  See how many co-sponsors he gets.

In the trade press today, there are rumblings about backroom maneuverings to insert the Bingaman "safety valve," or similar, into the L-W bill, to weaken it.

That is the game.  That is the fight.  But Grist stays nobly above that fray, offers no support to the Left (such as it is), and insists upon attacking L-W.

Inhofe wins.

Amazn.  Nice idea.  Get it introduced.

A real game is being played, guys.  Can we afford to ignore reality on Capitol Hill on this issue?

I wish we could.On Cali EJ groups reject cap-and-trade in strong terms posted 1 year, 9 months ago 28 Responses

Gar, women now have the vote

It took about a hundred years, and the issue was more straight-forward than climate change.

We don't have time.

I wish we did.  I love a good Utopia as much as the next guy.  But we don't have time.

The L-W bill is an emergency stop-gap.

The puspose of the bill is simply to nudge a capitalist economy in a different direction, and make it reasonable for people to invest in Green energy and to choose to consume/conserve Green energy.  The bill tries to be a harsh enough nudge to slow carbon emissions.

Likely, it is not enough.  But it is a first step.  And it hopes to show the public that carbon control is important and possible.  As the crisis gets worse, presumably the public will demand further action.

Could we devise a more ideal bill?  You bet!

Can you pass one?  No.  Not clear that L-W will pass.

You want a fight that matters?  Fight to pass L-W without watering it down.  That is the highest possible hope.

I voted for Obama.  But he is not the Great Green Hope.  Sorry, guys.On The major differences between carbon pricing plans are political posted 1 year, 9 months ago 16 Responses

useless form of debate

have long range goals

but short-term objectives, with practical approaches

best would be efficiency measures and and alternative energy with low-cost to run, but high up-front capital costs

these could be subsidized with tax breaks and PR campaigns

now organizeOn A solar grand plan posted 1 year, 9 months ago 29 Responses

Carl wants decade of dithering

Sierra Club has leg folks.  So where is your perfect bill?  Draft it and get it introduced.

The bill you describe would get less than 20 votes in the Senate.  If I am wrong, tell me who your votes are.  If I am right, tell me your plan for electing 40 more progressive Senators in the next two years.

All you achieve by preening before the Green faithful is to convince moderates that there is percentage in addressing climate change.  No matter what the pol does, the pol will be sure to get it in the neck from both the Right and the Left.  No one accepts the idea of a good-faith compromise.

And what is your argument?  Better if the Clean Air Act was never enacted?  Better if not enacted until Reagan took power?

Nothing in L-W is similar to grandfather clause in CAA.  And nothing in CAA aggressively pushed a new way of doing things like the subsidy for alternative energy.On Carl Pope of the Sierra Club lays out a blueprint for an effective climate bill posted 1 year, 9 months ago 4 Responses

amazingdrx

Draft a bill; get it introduced; gather co-sponsors.

Make it real.

Otherwise, it is just ranting on a blog.On Bush's controversial mercury rule for power plants struck down by federal court posted 1 year, 9 months ago 5 Responses

too many words, JR

what do we do to make Green energy the cheaper option for the consumer

and how do we communicate this info?

To hell with what is wrong, how do we do it right?

specifically

what do we do tomorrow and the day after?

what requires legislation, what does not?

the average person and average pol are not reading Grist daily

and even if they did, I do not think they would come away with a clear, concise idea of "what is to be done"On Nuclear power and fossil fuels face water crises and other problems posted 1 year, 9 months ago 40 Responses

Agreed

On The latest on green tax breaks in the stimulus bill posted 1 year, 9 months ago 3 Responses

JR, you are going in the wrong direction

people believe what they want to believe

much of what we believe is tied to identity and tribal affiliations

if you link common sense ideas for Green infrastructure to changes that much of the public will consider radical or contrary to their ideas/identities/tribe  [i.e., shrink the military]

then you simply tell them not to listen to your common sense ideas

nibble and move what people consider to be normal slowly left

forget about rational plans for paying for it; let people figure that out later (our usual way)

otherwise, you will quickly and easily be marginalized by cynics supporting the status quo

too bad; I like your specific proposalsOn Converting the permanent military economy to a green economy posted 1 year, 9 months ago 41 Responses

no informed suggestion

but maybe some of the Silicon Valley money went to enviro organizing foundations

The Silicon Valley crowd might be less odl money aristocracy in outlook than the usual suspects

need someone not afraid to rock the boat

but, I repeat, I am only guessingOn Q&A with Eric Janszen on whether an alt-energy bubble is in the making posted 1 year, 10 months ago 25 Responses

uh, JR

we were just getting ready to nominate YOU to organize taking over the Congress one bite at a time

if you are sticking to the ivory tower doing the grand vision thing

who is going to be the blogger Field Marshall for the here and now?

any nominees?On Q&A with Eric Janszen on whether an alt-energy bubble is in the making posted 1 year, 10 months ago 25 Responses

just to be clear, Amzn

the Turkish astronomer was proved to be right in the bookOn Q&A with Eric Janszen on whether an alt-energy bubble is in the making posted 1 year, 10 months ago 25 Responses

I love Amzn

but Congress only listens to organizations

Amzn might have the best ideas, but he has to join an organization and go in as a representative of the group, or no one will listen.  Think the Turkish Astronomer in The Little Prince by St Expery (sp?)

Anyway, there are two choices on organization:  build one, or hijack one (or several)

Unless some money guy comes along, our best option is hijack

And there is a role for mere bloggers in that process:  shine a light

We need to systematically canvass what is being done, by whom, and then rabble rouse with the enviro groups, or, better, their funders

My suggestion would be to start modestly, pick a topic that already has some traction (tax breaks for various green activities), and try to get a win

Need to list who the potential orgs to help might be, and what they say they are doing, and keep actual track of what they do do.

The goal should be to build support for green business.  (Sen. Sanders gets this)  Maybe things like programs to insulate low income housing -- or, better, all housing so it is not viewed as a lefty hand-out -- and get some prevailing wage stuff into the bill, and try to round up unions

bloggers can be the spur.  Gadflies of the Republic

It is more difficult than providing helpful summaries of mass media articles, but more likely to lead to resultsOn Q&A with Eric Janszen on whether an alt-energy bubble is in the making posted 1 year, 10 months ago 25 Responses

Bill

While motives vary

I think there are a few conceits tucked into the Lieberman bill

1.  make room for Republicans on the climate change bandwagon.  Make the need for action mainsteam; pull the teeth out of the worst rightwing demogoguery with the spectacle of moderate Republican supporters
(the tradeoff is some cover for some Republicans, but this is the fastest way to make climate regulation consensus -- like CWA regs on sewer waste and raw industrial waste)

2.  create enough certainty that carbon will have some cost to establish the alternative energy industry and create economic incentives for more efficiency

3.  Along with 2, give some space to existing businesses (to not create -- or just be blamed -- for economic collapse) with clear incentives to shift business paradigms

The change needed is dramatic, but we need to get there through consensus, and the consensus must be built in good faith

By the way, let me declare something surprising:  I am a very, very partisan Democrat, but I do not hate Republicans

we must all hang together, or we will all hang separatelyOn Grandfathering is Robin Hood's evil twin posted 1 year, 10 months ago 13 Responses

Carter Malaise speech

 a leader has to show people their options

if you frame political issues in terms of morality, then you just challenge people's sense of self worth.  Not a winning argument, and not a reliable path to progress

give people a sense of practical changes; make the way forward a reasonable choice

that is one reason why building an alternative energy industry, brick by brick, is such an important priority, in my view

Anyway, back to Jimmy Carter.  Hectoring the public about its failure to live up to ideals; no practical solutions identified.  Exact opposite of leadership.  Plus, his "faith in the future" as a foundation of American history was inaccurate, as a matter of history

but that is what comes from zealotryOn Gristmill's most persistent troll earns props posted 1 year, 10 months ago 8 Responses

false choice

100 percent auction is better

it is not one of the choices

you can try to pass something less threatening to the established order, or you can do nothing

those are your choices

argue all you want, but show me your votes

show me the votes

show me the votes

until you do, no one with power will take you seriously

and do not be so sure that your arguments are so brilliant that the public must accept them once they understand

people believe what they want to believe, and navigating politics means a lot more than policy.

you have to navigate a lot of established prejudices and identities

and you have to navigate a lot of myopic regional politics

but do not worry too much about the hated Lieberman bill passing.  Most likely, no bill will pass

You will help to make sureOn Grandfathering is Robin Hood's evil twin posted 1 year, 10 months ago 13 Responses

imagine this

you are correct, of course

I apologize to Alan, because my remarks were personal, my concerns are not personal, and I do not know Alan

But suppose that the blogosphere is full of sneering people who imagine that the only choice is between ideal policy and the corruption of Congress.  Everyone who disagrees is assumed to be corrupt, or stupid.  Need examples?

The bottom line is this:  there Lefties, my natural allies, will doom all hopes for Left policies -- because of their personal attitudes.

Arrogance.  Sanctimonious.

I am not saying Alan.  I am saying all of them.

Quite simply, our children and grand children will suffer for this.

So imagine this:  what Lefty in Congress would not want a 100% auction?  Who does not want 80% reductions -- or more?

It will not pass.

Will not.

So do not flaunt (flaunt is the right word) your purity and devotion to justice and science and whatever

while you (the crowd, my crowd) refuse to address the essential problem:  the votes.

You do not have them.  You do not have a plausible plan for getting them.  And you avoid the topic

instead spending your time in pure reverie

while the world burnsOn Grandfathering is Robin Hood's evil twin posted 1 year, 10 months ago 13 Responses

nice matching socks

On My older brother, my mom, and me in 1975 posted 1 year, 10 months ago 5 Responses

GreyFlcn

the point is to have a canvass to build upon

make people declare themselves

get them on record

start the serious process

otherwise, the pols are free to dance, and they will stay free

nothing focuses a pol like a vote, and considering what it will mean in the next electionOn Barbara Boxer is on the hunt ... posted 1 year, 10 months ago 4 Responses

FOE fantasy

For the next five years, there are three possibilities:

1.  Lieberman bill
   
2.  worse
   
3.  no bill.

Friends like Carper and Bingaman will shop safety valves and preemption hard, so passing the Lieberman bill -- even in the Senate -- is unlikely.  Indeed, Environmental Defense may push hard to weaken the Lieberman bill with state law preemption.

I FOE's view, a miracle occurs next year, and we get 100% auction.  Silly stuff.

Regional interests drive the train, and FOE has no plausible theory for addressing regional concerns.

International negotiations?  please.

public opinion?  well, who knows where that will be after the big Brown ad campaigns and the declining economy

The new Dem prez and the 100% auction promise?  Even assuming sincerity, both are cautious pols, and neither has demonstrated any talent for building legislative coalitions.

Politics does not bend to academic desires.

Horse trade, or get nothing.

Fact.On On letting the perfect be the enemy of good climate legislation posted 1 year, 10 months ago 9 Responses

you are correct

the criminal cabal at the White House would sign a toothless cap and trade bill, combined with subsidies for favored industries, if it would preempt all pesky state laws

Dingell will use his coal country friends to deliver that package to the WH, if he can

The key would be to gut the Lieberman/Warner bill on the floor of the Senate, and use it as a vehicle through the House (via regional politics), and gwb signs

I do not believe this will happen, but people with a lot of money dream about itOn Credulous 'former advisors' notwithstanding, no, Bush is not going to help on climate legislation posted 1 year, 10 months ago 3 Responses

Fear is the mind killer

one of my favorite lines from the Dune books

the stereotype Green is an angry fanatic INSISTING that people starve to save the endangered snail darters

I have seen lots of union bumper stickers with anit-enviro slogans

When coal says that Greens are attacking your pocketbook, Green arguments about hidden costs (not obviously out of your paycheck) and why we must pay the cost of getting rid of coal, are not going to resonate, I bet.

I could be wrong.  I do not really know.  I am not an expert.

But I think we need to hype alternative energy available NOW.  And push for the types of broad programs of modest measures (weather-proofing, geo units for cooling) etc. that Panogolin (sp?) was pushing yesterday.

Let the dry, reticient scientists keep their place as the clarion against the apocolypse.On Coal front group pouring millions into targeted disinformation campaign posted 1 year, 10 months ago 18 Responses

excellent, Pangolin

now all you need are organized lobbies to draft legislation, find the right committees, and push the bills day after day from office to office

maybe some unions, some consumer groups, and trade associations for relevant manufacturers

oh, and may be an environmental group

like Environmental Defense?  Mr. Kreindler?On Is it important to push climate legislation through this year? posted 1 year, 10 months ago 19 Responses

Mr. Bookerly

You make many assumptions.

Incomplete success is not failure.  When I was young, a river in the United States burst into flames.  That no longer happens.

A burning river helped galvanize public support for the CWA.  The rivers are not clean enough yet, but they no longer burn.  Some have been fooled into thinking the job is done.  In a democracy, public support must be gathered and directed to next steps.

If we wait until the public can see the burning rivers of climate change, it will be too late.  It may be too late even now.

There is no support in the public, or in the Congress, for a climate bill that will tear apart exitsing economic relationships.  It may be necessary.  It may be good.  The votes are not there, and will not be there for the foreseeable future.

Fact.

Instead, Greens must build an alternative approach.  Solar, geo, wind, public transport, etc.  Build confidence that there is a new way of life that works.  Then we may hope that there will be support for a new way of life, and the votes may be there for more fundamental change.

Will the poor suffer in the coming climate crisis, whatever shape it takes?  Without a doubt.  But unless you envision the Congress taken over by the Vanguard of the Green, no more radical action is possible.

And i am not so sure that the Vanguard of the Green have all the answers.On A look at the framing behind the last climate policy proposal posted 1 year, 10 months ago 18 Responses

what timeline are you on?

I was under the illusion that folks here wanted action in the near future

that means dealing with the Congress that will be here in the near future

focus on what is possible

or get nothingOn A look at the framing behind the last climate policy proposal posted 1 year, 10 months ago 18 Responses

so pathetic I could cry

instead of lining up in a circle so everyone can pat each other on the back for their deep thoughts

fire all of you

and hire someone trained to count votes in CongressOn A look at the framing behind the last climate policy proposal posted 1 year, 10 months ago 18 Responses

amazingdrx

I hope you are in regular contact with your congressmanOn A roadmap to getting 70 percent of U.S. electricity from solar by 2050 posted 1 year, 10 months ago 42 Responses

you are mistaken, DR

economic insecurity is not about starvation/no starvation

in the late 70s early 80s, the American working class family whose primary breadwinner had lost his or her job

was STILL living at a consumption level higher than that of the court of Louis XIV

so were those Americans just silly to be stressed out?

when you lose your place in the world, or feel that place threatened, it is tremendously humiliating.  And the fear and humiliation fuels rage.  Demogogues flourish

it is a mistake to underestimate the difficulty of changing patterns of economic activity

it is necessary; it is painful for many

better days are possible; and people can be happier with less frivolous consumption

but it is not about "having the right attitude toward wealth"

wealth is not the issue for most people

it is about having the right plan

more plans; less platitudesOn We can consume less without sacrificing well-being posted 1 year, 10 months ago 12 Responses

DR, right and wrong

uh, the history is a little simplistic

and the attempt to compare this to WWII (like Sen. Sanders) is bogus

A very visible threat like war is going to generate a far different reaction from the public

but I like your point about "sacrifice"

what do people think is going to happen if we do not address the climate disaster?

one way or another, we need to change the way we do things.  staying the same (not sacrificing?) is simply not an optionOn Obama puts the 100 percent auction idea into the mainstream posted 1 year, 10 months ago 22 Responses

Hey, DR !

What would you like to happen?

Seriously, what is the best possible (and plausible) outcome?

What would perk you up and say "Wow, for them, that is success.  I never would have expected it."On The Lieberman-Warner bill will ... happen posted 1 year, 11 months ago 1 Response

not effective

argue like that

you will be ignored

suit yourselfOn Keeping power broker's hands out of the cookie jar posted 1 year, 11 months ago 57 Responses

DR, take a lesson

I love blogs

but blogs -- even if correct -- won't take us all the way to where we need to go

Congress is not swayed by anonymous hippie types, like us

There has to be an organized lobby that looks like a traditional lobby

who can sift through information, and present a coherent and convincing story

That's number one.  And then, the ability to deliver votes at election time must be proved.  But that is really down the road.  First, someone traditional looking has to articulate a position

-- and propose specific legislative solutions.  And gather co-sponsors.

For all the moaning about the sloth and incompetence of Congress, where is the enviro community when it comes to organizing effective lobbying?

We need to do better.  Solar is one example.  Geothermal systems is another.  Wave power (my favorite pipe dream) is another.

Where is the organized voice?On New developments in solar power make 'clean coal' look even dumber posted 1 year, 11 months ago 35 Responses

stop whining and start organizing

solar and wind need more organized lobbies

deliver

then you will have a place at the tableOn Why did Dems bargain down the energy bill? posted 1 year, 11 months ago 6 Responses

background music for domestic politics

credibility

do Greens get credibility for being in synch with world opinion?

or do Browns get credibility for standing up to the UN and all those nations looking for hand-outs?

The partisans will see what they want to see

What do the people "in the middle" (barely paying attention) hear?

That will be the only significance of BaliOn Countries strike climate deal in Bali posted 1 year, 11 months ago 20 Responses

a quibble and a conundrum

I agree with you, DR.

But when you write about the auction issues, there are many axis of disagreement besides coal v. non-coal.  And even along the coal v. non-coal axis, the divisions are often regional instead of simply company v. consumer.

The regional stuff is important when counting votes on the Hill.  Need to add that factor to your analysis.

The conundrum is how to raise carbon costs without hurting the poor.  Not easily done.  Gore and Pangolin's solution is elegant, but politically dead for at least a decade.  So where is Plan B?

My guess is that the key is to make sure we get something for the pain.  The pain is coming.  But will the price signal be significant enough to prompt individual action, and will the costly choice be clear enough and easy enough to choose so that ordinary people feel that they are choosing to help -- or will they just feel gouged?  Slow pain (steady price rises), and no visible progress or changes to lifestyle, seem to me to be the worst possible outcome.  So how much should we cushion the blow?  Wouldn't a sharp price rise at the start, combined with tax incentives for geo-thermal HVAC systems and solar stuff, etc., be better suited to prompt progress?

The devil is in the details.  I don't know the best approach.  But I suspect that the problem is not addressed by simply trying to reduce price increases suffered by the poor.  In general, that is coming.  But what will we get for it, and when?On On Lieberman-Warner, long-term emissions targets, and picking a trajectory posted 1 year, 11 months ago 11 Responses

reading too much

On Obama expecting 'serious conversation' about 'drastic steps' on climate change posted 1 year, 11 months ago 19 Responses

it is not a small thing

to reorganize the economyOn A roundup of today's action in the Senate Environment Committee posted 1 year, 12 months ago 7 Responses

easy in the abstract

what votes do you have?On How to structure a cap-and-trade program posted 1 year, 12 months ago 5 Responses

some things are a sure thing

just hope that Craig skips making snappy remarks about the posteriors of the hearing audienceOn Clinton and Sanders introduce amendments to strengthen the bill posted 1 year, 12 months ago 3 Responses

if Dems were claiming total victory

then you might have a point

but no one is saying that.  to the contrary, most are saying it is a huge problem and will need attention for years

the choice now is half a loaf, or nothing

half a loaf builds some momentum (but leaves much to do)

nothing builds cynicism and avoidance On Greens need to learn how to celebrate their friends and their movement posted 1 year, 12 months ago 31 Responses

amazingdrx has it pegged

On Greens need to learn how to celebrate their friends and their movement posted 1 year, 12 months ago 31 Responses

Pangolin is right and wrong

More definitely needs to be done.

But it must be done by increments.  Otherwise, it will not happen.

Be careful of angry or pretentious rhetoric because it gets in the way -- even when you are right.  If the public gets the idea that you scorn them, then they will label you and scorn you.

A year ago, few believed political action was necessary or likely.  Now, a consensus is being built that something must be done.

The science news will be relentlessly bad.  The consensus can be built upon for more action.

But watch out for the economic counter-arguments.  Especially if a recession hits.  People who feel at economic risk get humiliated and angry, and susceptible to demogoguery.  Don't let them blame the Greens.

It will be a political tightrope to build toward effective action for years to come.

Keep pushing hard, but be nice.On Greens need to learn how to celebrate their friends and their movement posted 1 year, 12 months ago 31 Responses

Robespierre will come for you next

On Greens need to learn how to celebrate their friends and their movement posted 1 year, 12 months ago 31 Responses

ethanol is a powerful lobby

attached to ethanol bill, it passes

not attached, good byeOn Pelosi joins Reid in bifurcating the energy bill posted 2 years ago 5 Responses

good luck organizing green buildings

sounds helpfulOn Tobis on the multidimensionality of the climate discussion posted 2 years ago 8 Responses

the public has experience with fads

and I do not think that the public is quite sure that it believes in climate change.  Early, there was skepticism.  But I think that is changing.

Clearly, in response to Kyoto, the public was simply not buying it.

I think AB 32 put climate change on the map.  If California was willing to regulate, then what the hell is this?

Still, in January 2007, I saw a poll showing only Dems in Congress believed.  Some startling figure, like 95% of Repubs on the Hill thought climate change was a Dem gimmick.

That may be changing.  Many hearings on the Hill by various and sundry, each trying to find a headline, the Nobel prize, the scary IPCC reports, droughts, fires, etc.

Now, there are Repubs from Blue and Purple states worried about 08.  War, torture, eavesdropping, tottering economy and general lawlessness and hypocrisy have stained the Repub brand.  Some Repubs facing scary reelection campaigns will be tempted to find a moderate to progressive robe to throw over their shoulders.

In this vein, Collins and Coleman are orig co-sponsors of Lieberman-Warner.

I hope there is a Dem landslide in 08 and all the Repubs looking for lifeboats go down.  Still, I welcome all Repubs to the climate change action lobby.  The progressive position is vastly strengthened, longterm, with Repubs on board.

Otherwise, progressive climate legislation will always be vulnerable to demogogic attacks that climate change is a fad theory, and a Dem bogeyman.

Sensible responses to important issues are often stalled for decades.  See the constitutional amendment needed to get an income tax, woman's sufferage, civil rights, health care.  Nonsense gets in the way.

Bring some Repubs on board, then focus upon the nuts and bolts needed, and expect to have to keep adjusting the program and making new arguments for many years to come.  This is the big one, for our generation.On Wherein I joke about John Edwards' hair posted 2 years ago 7 Responses

not Pearl Harbor and not Apollo project

neither example is apt.  Pearl Harbor featured a problem easy to see and understand.  Apollo project had trivial impact upon the economy

So the call to Heroism will not be answered in the same way.

Will not.

So what is left is politics.  As usual.  The usual kind.

Two separate issues.  Big problem?  Cost?

Please, Senator, forget about the cost.  John Q Public always pays, one way or another.  Cut a deal.On The Lieberman-Warner bill is not strong enough to do the job posted 2 years ago 16 Responses