Comments bookerly has made

To Wolverine

   Fair enough. Except for the cellphones (smile).  Most people in China don't have landlines, they have only cellphones.  I suspect that this is better overall for the environment.  OTH, they are busy catching up with Americans in terms of Internet Access.

   Cars??  I got rid of mine long ago, but have trouble telling others they MAY not have one, when I did have one for a number of years.  Don't really like the things myself, but I was young once and did then.

   I prefer the carrot to the stick.  My experience is it works better (smile).  Got any carrot ideas??  (Seriously, I never seem to have enough!!).

patrick in BeijingOn China, with emissions rising, urges developed countries to carbon diet posted 1 year, 8 months ago 8 Responses

China

   Dear CanisCandida,

        Thank you for being open and honest regarding your feelings.

        I am sorry if I appear arrogant to you.  But I am not sure what "humility" you want me to display?

        My on-going criticism and problem with postings on the subject of China on Grist (and in the MSM) is that 1)  They are unbalanced.  2)  Many of the criticisms are more along the line of attacks than anything I would call constructive.

        Do you wish to discuss this as an issue?  I would be glad to.  When I suggest this (and I have many times), I generally get no reply.  (Except anger, and complaints that I am too pro-China, or an agent of the Chinese government, or even a Chinese citizen pretending to be an American to spread propaganda).

        That aside, my issues are that

        1)  Most reporting is unbalanced.  Do you wish to argue otherwise?  Please (and anyone else should feel free to do so) respond if you care to.

        2)  Most comments (not ALL!!!) go along the lines of "China is terrible, they are terrible, we think they are terrible."  Very few people offer anything that anyone would regard as constructive criticism.  If you disagree with this, we can discuss it as well.

pace,

patrick in BeijingOn World's tiger population unwell, WWF says posted 1 year, 8 months ago 20 Responses

Fed Cowering

   Err, covering for the banks.  I agree with L. Sam, that is what it looks like they are doing.  One by one rescuing each bank as it collapses, perhaps in the hope that no one will step back and look at the big picture.

   Can the Fed inflate its way out of this mess?  Perhaps.

   Usually, in doing so, it would transfer a lot of wealth from the poor upwards to pay for it all.

   A current problem, is that having done so for so long, many of the poor (as a mass) lack enough wealth to transfer up.

   So, the rich would need to pay.  So far, they seem unlikely to do so.  The amazing fact that banks are still handing out tens of millions in bonuses to executives even while they are collapsing is a bad sign.

   On the other hand, if there is money that can be spent by politicians to quiet the problem down, it will certainly be spent in this, a presidential election year.

   Unless the politicians are so stupid that they actually believe their press releases and think the market will solve everything.

   Ah!!  Relief!!!  No one can be THAT stupid.

   Roll of the drums.

   George Bush.

patrick in BeijingOn A few thoughts for environmentalists posted 1 year, 8 months ago 95 Responses

In Charge

    Dear Jason,

          Kudos!!!  No one can stir people up better than you can!!!  Only the "trash the meat eaters" posts draw more comments (it seems to me).

          But, do you really believe what you write?

          Objecting to economics is like objecting to the sun and the moon.  Nothing changes.

          However, knowing that there is a sun and moon doesn't mean that we have to go along with every idiot who claims to speak for them.

          The Federal Reserve acts like it is scared and lost, trying to move its finger from hole to hole as needed, while disparately ignoring the cracking walls.

          Heck, folks here are wondering about the American economy.  A $600 bicycle patch isn't going to make much difference to people drowning in a world of debt.

          The banks are scared to borrow, lend or invest.  (I believe this is one of the four signs of the Apocalypse (the Norse Gods Version).)

          The world is staring at a huge mound of debt, which a year ago was valued as gold, and now seems to have turned a dark brown color while beginning to smell.

          The folks in charge, hating government intervention, are waiting for .... what???  They don't seem to know.

          The rest of us are waiting for the next "Shirley Temple" to keep us from feeling the pain of it all...

patrick in Beijing On A few thoughts for environmentalists posted 1 year, 8 months ago 95 Responses

Tiger Farms

  I was wrong (smile).  There are apparently a number of private tiger farms which advocate the sale of body parts.  But as near as I can see, the issue was squashed over a year ago (the government said no way, basically), and I'm not sure why WWF brought it up now.  Curious.  Do they have inside knowledge?  Or is it a slip?

  It is worth noting that the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA is listed as the number two destination of tiger parts.  Anyone got any ideas how to stop it?

patrick in BeijingOn World's tiger population unwell, WWF says posted 1 year, 8 months ago 20 Responses

Examination System

  Dear DrX,

       The Chinese Examination system (the forerunner of civil service systems everywhere, I suspect) is not as simple as you see it.  I am hardly an expert on it,  but it required years of study, and often resulted in people from obscure backgrounds achieving power.

      The gaming of it came mostly from the fact that the wealthy could afford tutors and special classes.  

      Doing well at even an early level often resulted in wealthy patronage and position.

      It involved a different mind set than in the West (which may be one reason we often misunderstand it).

      Too complicated for a simple post!!! (smile)

 Dear Jon,

      Another theory which matches your boundaries theory, is that the Chinese empire was already so large and so full of interesting things, that it kept attention focused internally, ignoring much of the outside world.  (Which explains why their fleet turned back and didn't conquer the world).

     In terms of the future?  It does seem clear that we are entering a multi-polar era.  This may not mean that all poles will be equal.  Certainly China and India will play growing roles.  Don't ignore Africa or South America.

     For the US, the key question is how can it learn to "get along" with others without bullying everyone?  And if it can't, what happens?

     I often tell my students that anti-Chinese sentiment in the US is a natural reaction to a rising China and a falling America (or rather perhaps a settling into place as one among many equals America), and they can expect more of it during the transition.

     McCain represents the worst of the old cold-warrior ethos, and his hard line in terms of "us vs them" would be disastrous.

     Whoever the next President is, he/she needs to learn how to negotiate in good faith with the world, and approach with a spirit of friendship, respect and equality.

     Businesses have learned the secret of "win-win", it's time our American political leaders did so as well.

patrick in BeijingOn Why this is the last election, and another look at McCain posted 1 year, 8 months ago 48 Responses

Reserve Currency

   Just a brief comment, it is not so clear that the US dollar is the world's reserve currency.  There are some indicators that most countries are moving away from the dollar and towards the Euro.  

   And many individuals as well.  What this means for the US is not clear. Nor for the world.  

   OTH, my poor salary is actually worth more money!!  I get a raise without doing anything (at least on the money I spend in the US).

patrick in BeijingOn No sensible warming response can exclude carbon pricing posted 1 year, 8 months ago 50 Responses

Menace?

  You say "but we will also need to bring to bear all the muscle of American superpower diplomacy and military menace".

  So, um, if people don't do what we say, we will nuke them in order to save the world?

  And what are we going to require they do?  Dismantle their homes and live in caves so we can keep McMansions and SUVs?  Give us all their resources while their children starve?  Work as our slaves?

  You actually started out making a decent case for McCain, but wow, when you blew it, you really blew it!!

  Please tell me who else not to vote for!!!

patrick in BeijingOn Why this is the last election, and another look at McCain posted 1 year, 8 months ago 48 Responses

Demos

   Sunflower is correct.  Most of the current manufacturing of solar pv in China is too expensive for the overall market.  But it is not so far off that this will not be true (growing wealth, declining costs).

   There are many demo projects going on, and lots of people are watching to see how they will work.  One concern that developers have is the payback period.  They tend to run on smaller margins than developers in the US, so this is of concern to them (especially for commercial developers).  

   The issue here is not the desire to go green, but really the economics and the technical knowledge.  But things are changing very rapidly.

   The Chinese are also looking at every possible method of meeting their power needs.  They are not ready to put all of their eggs in one basket.  

patrick in BeijingOn Projected CO2 emissions dwarf previous expectations posted 1 year, 8 months ago 15 Responses

Supporters

  Immoderate supporters, I mean, on the web, both candidates.  Don't read what McCains people say, not interested.

patrick in Beijing

PS, immoderate supporters are NOT some kind of risque underwear.On Primaries thread posted 1 year, 8 months ago 22 Responses

Cheating

   I tend to agree with Gar.  The trading system in Europe showed that large corporations quickly "gamed" the system.  Businesses are good at this.

   Can we create a cap and trade system that can't be gamed?  This is one of the big questions that I never feel is sufficiently answered.

   When we look at corporate behavior in the United States, we see a number of examples of companies "gaming" the system.

   The large companies will use the cap and trade system to crush small companies.  How?  Well, they can afford to pay more for their emission "rights", so they will drive the price up until the smaller companies are out of business (we should note that the crushed smaller companies are frequently the sources of innovation).

   Then once there is a semi-monopoly established, the gaming begins.  Company American Best Crapola located in the city of Poredukayshun goes to the city, and says "we need an exemption from the cap for just five years, or we will have to close down, and 7,000 jobs will be lost."  Mayor Nohclew calls Congressfolk and Senators together, explains the situation, there are a few fundraisers, a Spritzer or two, and presto, a small rider ends up in the 2010 budget offering a one time (ha!!) exemption to this vital industry.

   When people howl, the ABC company explains that foreign companies have managed to accumulate more cap room, and this is needed to protect American jobs from unfair competition.

   It just seems to me that regulations can be fairly straight forward (they don't have to be, I admit), but that cap and trade is inviting gamers to join the fun.

   If anyone is able to (and cares to) explain why I'm wrong, I do have an open mind on this.  I am just skeptical and cynical.

patrick in BeijingOn Carbon offsetting is not the best way for the global north to subsidize the global south posted 1 year, 8 months ago 12 Responses

Affirmative Action

  Hi Kevin,

        I would like to hear people's thoughts about affirmative action.  Or if they think about it at all.

        Are there plans for special programs so that various under-represented groups can get a shot at these jobs?  

thanks,

patrick in BeijingOn Send your questions for the National Green Jobs Conference posted 1 year, 8 months ago 20 Responses

Computer Models

   Dear Darth,

       I am not surprised you don't understand computer models.  They seem to mystify most people.  Maybe I can help a little bit.

       There is nothing magical about computer models.  They are really nothing more than long mathematical formulas written in computer code instead of on paper.

       Any compute model can be written on paper.  Any mathematical formula can be written on a computer and become a "model".

       Here is how they work.  Someone (often a number of someones) develops a formula that they believe represents what they see happening in real life.

       They put it on a computer.  Presto!!  They have a computer model.

       But is it any good??

       No one can predict the future and tell if their prediction is correct before the future actually arrives.

       So, what to do?

       Well, the past at one time was the present, and it had a future.

        So, if we feed the past into the model, it should be able to predict it's own future.  If it does, we are on the right track.  If it doesn't, it's back to the drawing board.

       Of course, it's not that simple.  We need to feed in the data from  a number of pasts.  And the data is not always collected in the same way, and it just isn't that simple.

        But, if we feed in more and more data, and adjust our models, over time, they get better.

        There are always lots of different models, and they often disagree.

        But, what happens when they mostly start to show something similar??  Bells and alarms go off.

        We may have something true and real.  As true and real as we can find at this time.

        Of course, it is possible to reject science, and to say that there is no point in trying to understand anything until we know ALL of the answers and have ALL of the data, perfectly lined up (sound familiar?).  But that way means no "theories".  Which is the antithesis of science, and of how progress is actually made.

        But really all computer models do, is run the data.  Nothing so terrible or magical.

        It is worth noting that computer models are used extensively in every day life, from medicine to machine design.  If you really hate them, you should log off, and consider heading for Amish country.  (nothing against the Amish).

patrick in BeijingOn The Heartland conference recycles the usual climate change skeptics in its speakers list posted 1 year, 8 months ago 287 Responses

Dear Darth (1)

   One of the things you should consider is a course in statistics.

   Statistics, simply put, are nothing more than large quantities of numbers of things we have counted.

   But since our counting methods may have flaws, we tend to use mathematics to try to make up for the flaws.  (These days, they involve mathematics on machines, instead of just paper, often times called "computer models" (more on that later)).

   In statistics, we deal with totals, but they are often meaningless, just numbers, it is the details that matter.

    For example the number 8 is a total.  The number four can represent the average between 8 and 0.  

    The number four can also represent the average between 4 and 4.

    Mathematically, these are the same.  They are equivalents.   4 + 4 = 8 + 0.

    From a practical standpoint, if they are temperatures, one can see that they are not the same.

    4 + 4 would represent a moderate climate.  

    8 + 0 would represent a climate given to extreme swings (Max should pay attention to this too!).

    Yet from an average point of view, they would be identical.  Imagine that!

    Now lets change the average to 6.  We could have 6 + 6.

    This would be a hotter temperature.

    Or 12 + 0.  Oh, oh, we can see how this would be more extreme!!!  And even scary.  While the average is only 2 higher than the average of 4, the extreme is much higher!!!

    And there are many other possibilities.

    But it is helpful to first understand a little bit about statistics.

    The other thing about statistics, is to understand what they are good at doing and what they are poor at doing.

patrick in BeijingOn The Heartland conference recycles the usual climate change skeptics in its speakers list posted 1 year, 8 months ago 287 Responses

Well I'll be...

   damned.... oh, wait, that already happened a long time ago.

   Still, I must admit, this I didn't expect.  Kudos to them for taking a step in the right direction.  Let's hope it's more than just window dressing.

   (Shaking head in wonder) Just when I thought I'd seen it all.

patrick in BeijingOn Southern Baptist leaders urge action on climate change posted 1 year, 8 months ago 3 Responses

Missionaries

    Every missionary who passes through town first explains that the previous missionary was not a true Christian, that only their sect/cult is real.  One of my colleagues explained to me that everyone in America speaks in tongues, can communicate with the dead, and heal the sick by laying on of hands.  Amazing!!!

    Interestingly, the term for protestant is usally Christian, which allows the missionaries to explain that Catholics are not Christians, they are Catholics (whatever that is!!).

    I suspect this was done by an early Anglican arrival compiling a dictionary!!

    Are there really an liberal churches any more?  I thought they were mostly dying.  

    In any case, the Southern Baptists of today are busy home schooling their kids not to believe in science.  

patrick in BeijingOn No special revelation posted 1 year, 8 months ago 12 Responses

Ways to Make War Eco-Friendly

  1) Draft energy company leaders put them on the front line (perhaps they could detect land mines with their noses!).

  2) Use weapons manufacturing bosses in demo videos for their own products.

  3) Stage it at home in America!!  Local is better!!

  4) Solar powered weapons of mass destruction!

  5) Provide police with depleted uranium bullets (for some reason I always want to call it "distressed" uranium.  some sort of mental slip.)

  6) Allow hunters in America to use depleted uranium bullets.  Heck, we should all get a free supply!

  7) Permit Americans to own their own low yield nuclear weapons (to ward off terrorism).

   Whee!!  What fun!!!

patrick in BeijingOn The Onion with another masterful satire posted 1 year, 8 months ago 10 Responses

Southern Baptists - some history

   I grew up in the church (southern baptist), though I left it over 40 years ago.

   Originally the Southern Baptists were the slavery supporting, secessionist version of Baptists.

   As a religion, one of it's charming aspects (there were few!) was that it rejected religious authority.   Each person was supposed to find their own way to God and Jesus through prayer, Bible study and reflection (thought, something that has since been banned).

   If you consider, you can see a strong thread of anarchism in this theology.  Amazing!!

   Then something happened.  The courts ruled that schools had to be de-segregated.  Women demanded that they be treated like human beings (instead of property).  There were gays!!!  And hippies!!! (in passing, the latter).

   Under threat from change, the church circled the wagons and began to do as all organizations under threat do.  Purge.

   As moderates, liberals and Christians left the church, the authoritarians began to prevail.  Cult-like creatures emerged.  Seeking dominion over all the earth (especially their fellow Southern Baptists), they purged and purged and purged.  Until the pure at heart (cowed) were all that were left.

   And so today, the freest most anarchistic of churches has become the most authoritarian of Protestant groups (except Mormons and Anglicans (pre-split)).

   But every times things calm down, the damn moderates raise their heads again.  And in terms of the environment, they are doing it now.  Mostly likely scenario?  A smack-down, more purges and inquisitions.  Possibilities?  The moderates actually win!!

   What impact do the devil-driven Satan worshipers on Grist have on this?  Probably none.

patrick in BeijingOn No special revelation posted 1 year, 8 months ago 12 Responses

Proof

    Dear Darth Patrol,

        Do you demand the same proof for new drugs before they are released to the market?  Or new chemicals before they can be used?  What kinds of proofs do you accept for other "theories"?   Or do you reject all of science??  No gravity?  No relativity (just math, after all)?  No Physics?

        Another 100 years?  That is a total fraudulent answer, since you and I will be long dead by then.

        Your answer basically is that NOTHING can convince you.  

        This is where the term "denier" comes from.

        Let's see, then  you probably refuse medicine and the use of clinical treatments that are less than 100 years old (after all, humans have been around over 100,000 years, so why not require a treatment be tested for at least a 100 years).

        You can't go to the dentist, the internet is definitely too young for you!!

        But, wait!!!  No one should talk to you until you have been posting for at least 100 years!!!

        It's spring, the silly season arrives early.

patrick in Beijing

         On The Heartland conference recycles the usual climate change skeptics in its speakers list posted 1 year, 8 months ago 287 Responses

First - Organizations!

  Dear Wiscidea,

      Of course you may call me Patrick (or even patrick (smile)).

      You actually denounced a non-existant organization??  Wow!!  I am impressed.  Props to you.

      But the problem is this.  Non existant organizations are straw-men.  We use them to distract us from real organizations and real ideas.

      Discussing the mythical ELF helps us avoid discussing what should be the real issues.  One is global warming, another is whether houses like this qualify as green, a third is suburban sprawl, a fourth is tactics to change society.

      While arson is terrible (or silly if you prefer), it is unlikely that organizations exist to promote it.  And there is little evidence of such.  There will always be deranged individuals who will commit acts of violence because they hear voices in their heads, they are immature and lack enough education to find alternative outlets for their anger, they work for the US government, and so on.

      But we should be careful to avoid creating imaginary demons (except for fun).  There is enough of that in the world.  We need instead to focus on the real things that are happening.

      This is an old political tactic (still in use, sadly).  It involves creating a minor diversion as a means of distracting from discussion of the major issues.  (Does Clinton show too much cleavage, is  Obama a Muslim?)

      This kind of discussion reminds me of the question of how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

      As someone who doesn't believe in angels, it seems moot to me.

patrick in BeijingOn 'Eco-terrorism' suspected in Seattle-area arson posted 1 year, 8 months ago 80 Responses

Answers from the Bat Cave!!!

   Okay, Darth, you got me.  I don't live in a cave!!

   So, let me back up, be polite, and ask the simple question.

   What is an acceptable standard of proof for you??  (and for the other people challenging global warming).

   What is acceptable generally?  What is acceptable in terms of climate data?  In terms of issues such as cigarettes and cancer?  Chemicals and cancer?

   Thanks!!!

patrick in BeijingOn The Heartland conference recycles the usual climate change skeptics in its speakers list posted 1 year, 8 months ago 287 Responses

Patience

  Dear AmazingDrX,

        One of the sad things to realize is that voters have come to expect candidates to be somewhat nasty and a bit misleading about each other (and it has gone both ways, alas).  My impression from the polls is that a bit of nastiness doesn't bother them, and they discount it.  So, they are not likely to take as much umbrage at Clinton as you do.

        At this point, they look pretty much stalemated for the moment.  Let the back room maneuvering begin!!

patrick in BeijingOn Primaries thread posted 1 year, 8 months ago 22 Responses

Confused

    David, how do you know that all they talked about was the cool kids?  Were you a charter member?  It doesn't sound like it.

    Gee, it sounds to me like they were kids who could see past stereotypes and hang out with lots of different folks (based on your description, read it again.)

    And I suspect that their criticism of the school establishment was right on!! (smile).

    The problem now is that all the "cool" kids are living in MacMansions and driving SUVS and killing the rest of us.

patrick in BeijingOn Skeptics and ressentiment posted 1 year, 8 months ago 6 Responses

Existence

   Can Global Warming Skeptics prove that they actually exist?   Can they prove that they don't get money from big oil companies to make their posts?  Can they prove that Global Warming is a good thing?

   Under the standard of proof most of them demand, there is nothing provable under the sun!!!  Back to the caves!!!

patrick in Beijing On The Heartland conference recycles the usual climate change skeptics in its speakers list posted 1 year, 8 months ago 287 Responses

Scepticism

  Dear Wiscidea,

       Because someone puts in on the web doesn't mean it's true.  Ever notice how every time there is a bombing, about ten groups claim credit?  They didn't all do it.

       We live in a time where the US government has encouraged folks to engage in terrorist activities so they can have prosecutions so they can justify homeland fear (er, security).  

       We know that intelligence agencies regularly plant stories to discredit people the white house doesn't like.  (How strange, that the Colombians just found "proof" of Chavez support for FARC and someone unnamed (probably the Israelis) found proof of Iran's perfidy in an election season when the rethugs are in trouble!!).

       It doesn't mean that there isn't terrorism, but it does mean that we should look for proof.  A banner with a name isn't proof.

       A web site isn't always proof either.  Let's instead look at criminal trials and prosecutions, at the evidence presented, weigh and judge it fairly.

       At this point, no one knows how committed those arson attacks.  So, to attack one group without any proof doesn't make sense.

       And no, it is not okay to attack a non-existent group on the basis of a conceptual possibility that such a group might exist.

       This is a dangerous path if you study some history and think about the implications.  Look at the American "red scares" or the attacks on various candidates for things that never happened.

       Hopefully, we can be better than that.

patrick in BeijingOn 'Eco-terrorism' suspected in Seattle-area arson posted 1 year, 8 months ago 80 Responses

Ironically

   Even as Americans worry about the destruction of a few houses, we are all participating, via our proxies, in the destruction of many many houses in Iraq.  But they don't count.  Sigh.  Even though we do it.  

   The most likely reason for their destruction (as for most arsons) is money.  Follow the money, John B. is correct (Which must amaze him!!) (joking).  

   I do not believe that there is an ELF as such.  Wiscidea, just because someone creates a website, doesn't mean that everything on it is true.  Or do you now believe in Creationism because so many websites say so?  Or that Rev. Moon is God?  

   If you want to attack ELF, you first need to prove that it exists.

   Fine job creating a straw man and getting everyone to joust at it, though!!!

patrick in BeijingOn 'Eco-terrorism' suspected in Seattle-area arson posted 1 year, 8 months ago 80 Responses

Great Post!!

   David's post is correct in both defining the problem and offering some concrete actions.  And in defining the danger of a program that would ignore the concerns of ordinary people.

   PJD brings up some needed points.  It should not be acceptable for progressives to say "Well, you can't make an omelet without breaking eggs."  "Sometimes you have to burn a village to save it." or "It doesn't matter if some people lose as long as some people win."  

   David is correct that we need to strengthen our social welfare system.  Alas, there is very little call for doing so at this point.  (Reminds me of Reagan closing the terrible mental health dungeons in California, but, oops!!!  not funding the social welfare part of the system (neighborhood treatment programs, clinics, etc.).

   It would be nice if we were careful not to create more problems that we don't need to create in process of doing good.

patrick in BeijingOn The core progressive issue in the fight over climate legislation posted 1 year, 8 months ago 25 Responses

Which lower income people?

   Van Jones is a great guy.  He is brilliant, a great speaker and a hell of an organizer.  But he is still just one guy.

   It needs ALL of US to push for jobs and job training for low income people and especially for people of color, especially Black folk.  The Times had an article on the economy the other day pointing out the problems folks are having finding jobs right now.

   In fairness, I should say that I think that most people involved statistics are honorable and doing their best, but inexact numbers are an inexact science.

patrick in BeijingOn Sustainable, carbon-neutral community built in Oregon posted 1 year, 9 months ago 35 Responses

Thanks Tom!!!

   Great Post.  Thanks for keeping us up on these issues, and also for the modified veggies creeping in.  Important stories, pretty much ignored most places.  Sigh.

   One comment, in fairness.  The girl who says she is 15 but looks 12, may very well be 15.  I have 12 year old students who could pass for 20, and a couple of 20 year olds who could pass for 12.  Not only in terms of faces, but height.  

   Thanks again.

patrick in BeijingOn Monsanto uses child labor in its Indian cottonseed fields posted 1 year, 9 months ago 4 Responses

Statistics

  Jon,

     Thanks for the offer.  I can generally understand it, but alas, am generally skeptical.

     In one of my other lives I spent years pointing out problems with the calculation of affordable housing to planning officials in the pseudo-liberal city of San Francisco.  Median income was derived by combining San Francisco with San Mateo and Marin.  (Marin is one of the wealthiest counties in the United States, San Mateo is considerably wealthier than San Francisco on the whole).  First we pointed out that this "inclusion" created an artificially high income level.  Then we would note that students, retired people, unemployed people, people working part time, military, and people who would be considered unemployed (except we stop counting them when they are so discouraged they give up, we just ignore them).

    All of these things raised the average (and median) incomes to artificially high levels.  So, if you really wanted to build "affordable" housing, you needed to lower the definition.

    Ah, but they replied, the federal government has agreed that this is a good way to calculate income levels.  Case closed.

    So, just because people have agreed to use THEIR definition of GDP as valid, doesn't mean that it is, nor that we should not examine it critically.

    After all, the same folks brought us trickle down and the continuing absurdities of the current US growing wealth gap.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/02/business/02jobs.html

    (BTW, one of my concerns in all the talk about the greening of the economy is who is going to get the jobs, will affirmative action clauses be included in any programs?  I see no evidence that they will (nor much concern about such issues on the part of many MSE (main stream environmentalists), and it is very troubling.)

patrick in BeijingOn Sustainable, carbon-neutral community built in Oregon posted 1 year, 9 months ago 35 Responses

Split Rents

   Hi Gar,

   I don't understand the split incentives program you are talking about.  Here is my scenario, if you have a chance, please tell me where I missed the boat!!

   There is a problem with the idea of tenants sharing the costs of insulation with the landlord.  Any such costs are a capital improvement, deductible by the landlord (the tenant gets better insulation, but only that).

   A landlord can borrow the money and pay it back over an extended period of time.  With the right tax incentives, and assuming it adds to the capital value of the property (not a good assumption today!), it can indeed pay for itself.

   For the tenant, if they live in the same place for a long time, the savings in heating costs will pay for themselves.  But, they have to put out their share of the money immediately, with no tax deductions (not that one would help if your income is in the lower 60 percentile).  Or they have to borrow at what are likely higher rates than the landlord (with interest costs that are not deductible, unlike the landlords).

   And finally, they are then prisoners of the landlord, locked in to the same rental unit by the need to recover their outlay, if they leave, someone else benefits, but they still pay.

   And of course, absent rent control (which mostly doesn't exist anymore), this kind of being locked in isn't very helpful.

   The landlord can just raise the rent, force the tenant out, then rent the newly improved property (partially paid for by the tenant) at a higher rate!!  WooHoo!!!  Great for landlords.

patrick in BeijingOn It's all about inequality posted 1 year, 9 months ago 18 Responses

Contracting Out

  The fact that Exxon-Mobile contracts out its shipments is merely a cop-out.  They do this because it creates a firewall to protect them.  What they SHOULD do is require that the companies they contract with use double-hulls.  But, nOOOOOOOOOO, that would be..... I dunno.  Something they don't want to do any way.

  McCain was at one time perhaps and independent thinker.  But, really, he has pandered so far to the extreme right to win the nomination, that even if he won the election, he would be their prisoner.

  The only reason the LCV or anyone speaks highly of him is so that they can preserve the fiction of "bi-partisanship".  But it is alas a fiction.  And not one worth preserving.

  With any luck, Obama will wipe the Rethugs off the face of America, and once there is only one center right party standing, maybe we can make the next one "I'll try the lean to the left" flavor (please!).

patrick in BeijingOn Mr. Straight Talk voted against requiring double-hulled tankers after the biggest oil spill posted 1 year, 9 months ago 16 Responses

More

   The Washington Post reports today that higher prices are forcing food programs for starving people to cut back.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008 ...

   The poor will suffer first and most.  I only hope someone teaches them how to use AK-47's before it is too late. (smile)

patrick in Beijing On Archer Daniels Midland will squeeze out competition, says Fortune posted 1 year, 9 months ago 8 Responses

Sources

   Do you mean the "Pollutant Standards Index" PSI?  A quick internet search for the "standard pollution index" didn't find anything useful (I used dogpile).

   Most measurments don't try to lump all pollutants together, but rather measure each type.  This kind of comparison might be useful.  But "measures" ALL "the dangerous substances per cubic meter" doesn't really make a whole lot of sense.  It makes sense to measure each of the substances and compare them.  

   Nor does the article say what "regularly" means.  Sloppy writing from the IHT is not very meaningful.  If you have any real figures, please put them up.  But I am guessing you just went searching for quotes to support your anti-China bias.

   I noted that you didn't quote everything related in the article.  Such as "Experts were also worried about pollution at the 2004 Olympics in Athens. To cut noxious fumes, Greek authorities blocked car traffic surrounding the Olympic venues, and asked major factories to stop production during the Games".

   And you ignored this quote.

   "Bob Larsen, an assistant coach with the U.S. Olympic track team in 2004, said he didn't think runners would be bothered by the air quality, but that other considerations might be important.

"There of course could be negative psychological reactions for unprepared athletes when they don't see clear blue sky when they arrive in Beijing," said Larsen, who coached Meb Keflezighi to a silver medal in the marathon at the Athens Games.

"For endurance athletes, I think the heat and humidity will pose a bigger challenge than the pollution," added Larsen, who visited Beijing to test conditions after the city was awarded the Games."

    Is there pollution in Beijing?  Yes.  Also in LA and Houston.  No one disputes that air pollution in all of these and many other cities around the world is a problem.

    What needs to happen is for people to work together to find solutions to the problems.  Then to work together to implement them.  It is impossible to work with people you are busy demonizing.

    So, all I really get from you is that you don't want to work with China.  So, don't!!  Put your energy into something positive!!!  And enjoy your work!!

patrick in BeijingOn Air doing OK, say officials; water, perhaps not so much posted 1 year, 9 months ago 8 Responses

Internal vs External

  Dear Jon,

      It's not THAT simple!  First of all, China doesn't have a huge internal market.  Around ten percent of their people would count at middle class in the West, the rest are still far far behind.  They  don't have money to buy solar or wind anything.  They need money to buy food and health care and clothing, stuff like that first.

      They just don't have the Chinese currency.  You can't just print it up to order.  The internal market is very lopsided, and where it is big, it is big because of capital inflows.  No capital inflow, no big market.  

      If eliminating poverty was as simple as you describe, the entire developing world would have done it already!!  Sorry, it doesn't work like that.

      When was this "internal" heyday of the US economy?  The US built it's economy on the slave rum tobacco international trade.  And throughout American history has aggressively sought raw materials from abroad.  

      The difference now, is that instead of only buying raw materials from abroad, there is more balance, the rest of the world gets to sell some manufactured goods to the US which can help raise their standards of living.

      Sorry, the idea of living locally still strikes me as rooted in unreality.

patrick in Beijing
      On Sustainable, carbon-neutral community built in Oregon posted 1 year, 9 months ago 35 Responses

Developing Countries

   First about China Rail

http://www.pacificepoch.com/blog/25085_0_23_0_C/

http://www.hindu.com/2007/02/26/stories/2007022603281100. ...

http://www.railway-technology.com/contractors/suburban/al ...

http://www.infrasite.net/news/news_article.php?ID_nieuwsb ...

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/infras ...

http://www.osisa.org/node/10877

and a little on subways

http://www.wh-china.com/whxw/200802/t574918.htm

current Beijing

http://www.urbanrail.net/as/beij/beijing.htm

and the future

http://en.beijingology.com/index.php?title=Beijing_Subway ...

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2008-01/16/content_639 ...

elsewhere (a small sample)

http://www.exploreshanghai.com/metro/

http://www.urbanrail.net/as/guan/guangzhou.htm

Maybe I'll do renewable energy some other time, but it isn't that hard to find!!!

Remember that China is still a developing country, with a per capita income about 1/33rd that of the US.  (It may be slightly higher now, due in part to the collapse of the dollar).

That means it has less money.  The money it gets to build things comes from selling things to other countries (though it also buys).  If it could only sell things internally, it would be poorer still.  This is true for all developing countries, and is why they want access to where the money is, the developed countries.

Blaming any of them for selling Americans what they want is like blaming Columbians and Afghans for America's drug appetites.

Want to buy solar panels and windmills?  Subway systems?  Environmentally friendly products?  Just ask!!!

patrick in BeijingOn Sustainable, carbon-neutral community built in Oregon posted 1 year, 9 months ago 35 Responses

Truth and Fantasy

Dear Sarah,

     Surely  you have heard of the South/North water diversion project (similar to the California canal system)?  Water will be shipped from the very wet Eastern South up to Beijing.  I often bicycle past some of the work sites on my way to teach.  Is it an idea above criticism?  I dunno, but it is happening, and will ensure water supplies for the city (which it does need, thanks to the ongoing drought, perhaps a global warming present from America? (smile)).  Will it help enough, what will it's impact be on surrounding areas?  Stay tuned.

    In any case, China certainly faces a lot of water problems, as does pretty much every part of the planet right now.  Beijing is better off than Atlanta for the moment, but worse off than the Western US, for the moment.

    If we don't learn to work together and discuss issues in a win-win manner, we will never solve the problems of global warming, and everyone's water problems will get worse.  

    If Grist is going to cover the world, it should endeavor to do so in a balanced manner, which would mean deeper research into world environmental issues.  I suggested in another thread once, that Grist should invite environmental scientists from different developing countries to provide information regarding the challenges they face, and what solutions they see.

    Here are some of today's articles related to the environment.  You will see that while many of them reflect optimism, they certainly don't attempt to cover up of hide the challenges China faces.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2008-02/29/content_649 ...

http://english.people.com.cn/90001/90779/90867/6363415.ht ...

http://english.people.com.cn/90001/90776/90884/6361152.ht ...

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-02/27/content_7677 ...

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-02/29/content_7692 ...

Dear Tasermons Partner,

      Once again, you make outrageous claims about Beijing without providing any references.  Do you have any?

      I live here, and the air is bad sometimes, but the average day is not worse than LA on its worst days.  Today the sky is blue and clear.  In the last two weeks, we have had maybe two bad days (and they weren't as bad as you are describing!).

      It is quite clear you hate China, though not so clear why.  But really, if you want to criticize, you should at least make some kind of attempt to be accurate.

      One of the problems America has is with truth.  All of the lies told by George W. Bush about Iraq not only caused damage to Iraqis (whom most Americans don't seem to care much about), but to America and it's credibility around the world.

      The environmental movement is frequently attacked and accused of factual misstatements by people who are interested in weakening it.  Anyone can be wrong, but there is a difference between making mistakes, and deliberately disregarding the truth.  Whatever our personal prejudices, we should at least attempt to be factually accurate, if we care about the earth.

patrick in Beijing

   On Air doing OK, say officials; water, perhaps not so much posted 1 year, 9 months ago 8 Responses

Solutions??

  Dear Wolverine,

      Who is the "we" who has offered those solutions?  Who are you claiming has offered "free and unlimited birth control & abortion"?  Certainly not the United States!!!  

     And who says that such offerings if they existed (and I know of no place that they exist), are the answer to reducing population??  You might try reading what the various legitimate population groups say about the matter.

     In terms of complaining, you need to understand that there are legitimate population groups, and they aren't complaining, they are working.  You could join one, or give money as you wish, if you wish.

    The answers to population growth include education, raising income of poor people, sound social welfare systems (and not last!) the empowerment of women.

    Do you have a scenario for reducing population in time to affect the oceans?  How would it be done?

patrick in BeijingOn World fisheries still in danger of imminent collapse, says U.N. posted 1 year, 9 months ago 11 Responses

Advisors

   I still want to know who told Al Gore not to fight to get all the votes counted in Florida.  Someone told him that this was a bad idea and would damage the country.  Someone convinced him.  Whodunnit?  I would rather know this than know the identity of Deep Throat (rats, I found out and it wasn't so interesting) or who killed JFL.

   Some said it was Jane Fonda, others the Queen of England (though I thought Charles was too young at the time).

   I always thought that Yankee Presidents should know better than to ride around Southern cities with the top down.

patrick in BeijingOn Notable quotable posted 1 year, 9 months ago 20 Responses

Trust

   Dear CanisCandida,

        You misunderstand!!  It is not that I don't trust you (the person), but that rather I am all too aware of the power of language.  While you seem to see yourself and others here in terms of ongoing discussions and understandings, there is another dynamic you might consider.

        This is the dynamic of the internet, where someone may see one statement anyone of us make, and derive an understanding of us based solely on that one statement, without other context.

        You and I (and many other regular posters) don't do that, we have had too many discussions.  But that is not the dynamic at work here.  The dynamic of a thread is that it stands alone (except for links) despite the internal links we make in our minds.

         My concern was that the language (not you, yourself, the person) was misleading.  I am sorry if I have offended you.  Mea Culpa.  My explanation was written in haste after a very long first day of classes. (See, my language can also be misunderstood!! (and alas, often is!!)).

         I know that when I post, even if I try to be careful, there will be times when I forget the power and weakness of the net.  The power is that it allows us to create a semblance of a community using pixels on computer monitors.  The weakness is that we can easily loose site of the many contexts in which our words and ideas appear.

         Despite being partly Irish, I have never been a fan of Saint Patrick's Day.  I have no saints (smile).  And I do not object to a drink or two now and then, and have even been known to quaff Guinness while singing horribly off key the great Irish drinking songs.  I am not a fan of forced merriment and drinking to oblivion, and certainly don't wish to be associated with such notions.

         Will they allow the LGBT community to participate this year?  I thought there was an alternative more inclusive parade?  (Though I understand that this is not the same, at least for traditionalists.  But since I am not one, I tend to favor killing the old, and then creating a new.)

         The only time I participated was in Boston during desegregation.  A boy scout troop was marching, and my neighbor's son, a lovely dark skinned lad was marching with his troop.  I went along as sort of security (we were marching through South Boston, the home of some of the most rabid racists around).  There were no problems, all went well, but I would personally never do it again!!

patrick in Beijing

         On Notable quotable posted 1 year, 9 months ago 20 Responses

Pushed

   Dear CanisCandida,

       The problem I have with the word pushed, is that as written, it seemed to suggest that the Southerners had no other alternative (which is their line!).  In fact, they could have stayed in the Union, and tried to negotiate a peaceful end to slavery (or just freed their slaves and slept better for it!).

       While I clearly don't see it as your intent, it sounds rather a bit like a line that a defense lawyer might use in a criminal trial  "But your honor my client was pushed to murder by the fear generated in him by the victim.".

      At least that was my take...

      If I seem sensitive to this issue, I grew up in the South, and spent far too many years surrounded by denialists and revisionists!

patrick in BeijingOn Notable quotable posted 1 year, 9 months ago 20 Responses

Pushed Southerners

   Dear CanisCandida,

        What do you mean that the abolitionists "pushed" Southerners to secede?  A troubling statement to me...

        Gore lost the election because he stopped contesting it when it was clear he won.  If the situation had been reversed, the Republicans would have taken to the streets by the millions to demand a full recount.  Gore was betrayed by bad advice from his lawyers and his own choices.

        I remember returning to San Francisco from Florida around the middle of November.  There were numbers of Republican lunatics in the streets shouting "Give up Al" (That was the politest thing they were saying).  To my surprise he did.  And the Democrats were silent.

        Ralph Nader may be an idiot, but the reason Gore is not president is because he didn't fight for it.

        Ironically, many of the people screaming loudest that it's all Naders fault are probably those centrists who counseled Gore to surrender.  Covering up for their own complicity no doubt.

patrick in BeijingOn Notable quotable posted 1 year, 9 months ago 20 Responses

Really Now

  Dear Jonas,

       Umm, your attempts at humor have crossed the line into a disgusting place that most of us don't want to go (or hear about).

       I'm assuming you're not serious because it is hard to believe anyone could really entertain such beliefs unless he was between 8 and 10 years old. Maybe you are.  

       Jokes should begin by being coherent.  You are not.  Jokes that seek to offend as their primary goal have mostly fallen out of favor (at least on serious web sites).  You really need to study humor and parody some more before attempting it again.  You might want to look up the definition of the word "subtle" as well.

patrick in BeijingOn With wheat stocks at all-time lows, a fertilizer magnate utters the F-word posted 1 year, 9 months ago 28 Responses

Examples

   Dear PJD,

      Here are some links to a few of the web articles about EJ that include discussion of powerplants.  Keep in mind that the EJ movement is decentralized, and no one speaks for everyone, nor does everyone speak always in the exact same voice.  But also be aware, that most people share the same general principles.  I think that if you read some of the discussion links you will get a better feel for what folks are thinking than I can type here (smile).
The links are just a few, and not listed in any particular order.

http://www.gbgm-umc.org/NCNYEnvironmentalJustice/ej_artic ...

http://www.environmental-justice.org/nhejn/current_projec ...

http://www.energyjustice.net/ej/energy-ej.pdf

http://www.apen4ej.org/issues_what.htm

http://list.sfgreens.org/pipermail/sustainability/2007-Se ...

http://www.ejrc.cau.edu/NBEJNEJFS.html

   Happy Reading!!!

patrick in BeijingOn Cali EJ groups reject cap-and-trade in strong terms posted 1 year, 9 months ago 28 Responses

Nader

    I voted for Nader in 2000 (in California a safe Gore state, so centrists Democrats, don't get your knickers all twisted!!!).

    At the time he was running as the nominee of the Green Party.  He never (in my opinion) did much to help build the party, it was always about him.

    By 2004, my choices were voting for a bad Democrat or a true Green (not NADER!!).  I voted for Kerry (very reluctantly, but in VA, where it might have mattered).

    This year I will vote with reluctance for...
I honestly dunno yet, though I am leaning towards Obama (the Democratic nominee) who is another centrist Democrat.  But I don't have any false hopes.

    Dear GreenGuy12312005,

         If you want to build a third party stay as far away from Nader as you can.  He has not interest in doing so, he is only about his ego.  And frankly, on social issues, he ain't even that progressive.  Your criticisms of the two major parties are correct.

         I agree with Bart on this one.

patrick in BeijingOn Ralph Nader might jump into the presidential race posted 1 year, 9 months ago 129 Responses

Directions

   It is not clear how many of these will actually get built, but generally you can expect China to try everything to meet it's growing demands for electricity.  And coal is readily available, so trying to find some way to use it is likely.

   Note that "the Chinese government has expressed concern about the possible environmental impact of uncontrolled expansion, and has taken steps to limit the number of smaller facilities."  So there are likely to be a limited number of these.

   Of course, the US continues to use coal and plans to develop such plants, and so do many other countries.  India is in the process (according to the article), and South Africa has several (and who knows, may build more).

   To change the situation, the developed countries need to use their wealth and technological knowhow to not only use green energy themselves, but to spread it to the developing countries at a price they can afford.

   Many of the developing countries are making efforts, but financial and technological constraints limit what they can do.  We can pick on them or find a way to lift everyone up.  The choice, and the ball, are still in the hands of the developed nations.

patrick in BeijingOn China kicks off the coal-to-liquids rush posted 1 year, 9 months ago 8 Responses

Where the Plants Are

    Dear Naturescene,

        Look at where the plants are NOW!  They are not in middle class or wealthy areas.  They are in or next to poor areas.  That is why this is an issue.  Gar is correct (though I am sorry to hear about his respiratory problems).

        BTW, if you think that the plants are really no problem, go out door to door where you live and lobby your neighbors to get one put in your neighborhood (umm, you may need to move to a new location afterwards!).  Reality Check!

    Dear Ce1907,

         The idea that there is the incremental approach or no-change approach is a common fallacy.  I remember people saying the same thing during the civil rights movement.  But, oops, they were wrong.  (When I was young in the South, moderate white folks used to suggest that things would get better by and by and that people should be happy with some small changes.)

         Jon Rynn is absolutely correct!!  It is the mass movements that put the pressure on Congress.  Do we have one now?  No!!  So, the solution is not to say that one is not possible, but to organize!!  (Don't moan, organize!! (apologies to the lady)).

         I don't underestimate anything, the question is whether people fight, or go along.  Going along we get a bad bill.  Fight?  I believe we can do better.

         There is tremendous energy being harnessed around the Obama and Clinton campaigns (even though she is losing, she still gets huge crowds).  Change is in the air, now is the time to strike!

         How about a "Greens for Obama"? (or Clinton).  People showing up at rallies carrying signs that say "Save the Earth!  Stop Global Warming!  Obama 2008" or anything else.  Put that message into the campaign.  Even though he is weak on some issues, the signs are that he "gets" it at a macro-level (okay, wishful thinking).

         We do not have only two choices, we have many choices, we need to step outside the box and look for fresh approaches!

patrick in Beijing

 On Cali EJ groups reject cap-and-trade in strong terms posted 1 year, 9 months ago 28 Responses

Pakistan

   The local news media was covering the Pakistan elections.  They interviewed a man who voted for one of the opposition parties.  He said the cost of oil (food oil) and wheat had gone up so high he could barely feed his family, so he voted for change.  Not sure what kind of relief he will get.

   It is also not clear at all that people will all passively sit by and go hungry.  There are two developing worlds, really, those who are on a clear upward trend, and those still struggling near the bottom.

   Higher food prices will hit both, but how they react may be different.  And if they decide that the US and the rest of the developed world is to blame, this may also contribute to political shifts.

patrick in BeijingOn With wheat stocks at all-time lows, a fertilizer magnate utters the F-word posted 1 year, 9 months ago 28 Responses

Clarity?

  Dear GreyFlcn,

        If there is a power plant that currently is producing emissions that threaten the health of a poor neighborhood (nearby) but within the greater measured area does not violate the clean air act, under a cap and trade plan, people feel it would be allowed to continue to produce emissions that threaten the health of the poor neighborhood.

        One of the problems with air pollution is that it isn't spread evenly across the areas that are measured to determine verification with laws such as the clean air act.

        For instance, pollution from cars tends to be most concentrated in areas nearest highways in urban areas.  These areas are mostly inhabited by the poor.  Traditionally, for many environmental groups, this has not been a major issue.  For EJ groups, it is.

        This is true generally of pollution and toxics.  While they harm everyone, they especially harm the poor (who are often people of color in urban areas, though not exclusively).  

        A cap and trade system at the least would allow this to continue, at the worst, would allow conditions to get worse in poor areas.

        So, that's how it works.

  Dear Ce1907,

      You often complain that real politics means we don't get the legislation environmentalists call for, so we should settle for what we can get.

      But you are missing the point, as you note, unless we are willing to sacrifice the poor, we can't get the legislation you favor.  And many of us are not willing to do this.

      I am not sure it is your intention, but the results of what you are advocating would be that "we" have to always give in, and "they" never have to give in.  Sorry, no deal.

      For legislation to pass, it has to be acceptable to everyone, or we go nowhere.  Poor people who are suffering feel that they have already surrendered too much.  The other side doesn't seem to be suffering much at all.

patrick in BeijingOn Cali EJ groups reject cap-and-trade in strong terms posted 1 year, 9 months ago 28 Responses

Clarification

   I should be clearer (though I usually think I am, but am often wrong!).  My problem was that most (not all, there is no all of anything (I think!)) of the animal rights activists I came into contact with were indifferent to issues of social and even environmental justice.  They didn't care.  They in fact actively opposed programs to alleviate poverty, had no interest in fair trade issues and so on.

   I should note that I am a vegetarian (not a vegan), and do no own a car (it has always seemed to me that many people don't consider the damn cars do to animals).

   So, for me, it's not about my personal choices, but about my political choices.

   Does it have to divide this way?  I spent a fair amount of time trying to close the divide, to no avail (the resistance/indifference mainly came from the animal rights side).  So finally had to decide which side I was on.  And I did.

   For a long time, I avoided most of the animal rights debates.  But, CanisCanidida asked, so I answered (smile).  (Not that the question was directed at me specifically).  I thought about it and decided to be truthful.

   Frankly, it seems to me impossible to protect the biodiversity of species unless we address issues of poverty and inequality.  The Tigers will not be saved if the villagers are starving (look at what is happening to the Gorillas in the Congo).

   I appreciate that many people who post here understand the connection, my comments were directed towards trends I see in the broader movement.  

pace,

patrick in BeijingOn Upton Sinclair on downer cows posted 1 year, 9 months ago 20 Responses

Wrapping Soon

   Clinton needed to be closer.  When she wins it is fairly close mostly, when she loses, it is by pretty sizable margins.

   I suspect Clinton will stay in the race until after March 4th.  Even if she wins both Ohio and Texas, it is likely that the margins will not be great enough to put her back in the race.  At that point, hopefully, someone close to her, will sit her down and talk about political legacies and the future.

   Her only chance really, is that Obama does something foolish.  I see no sign of it, he has run a masterful campaign and is extremely likely to be the next president.  (Though he should pay attention to poor George McGovern and carefully vet his VP.)

   OTH, it doesn't hurt Obama for her to stay in the race a bit longer, allows him to stay in the headlines and look majestic.

patrick in Beijing

   On Wisconsin goes to Obama and McCain posted 1 year, 9 months ago 2 Responses

Farm Workers

  I looked at Obama's plan.  And just as the article above, it fails to mention farm workers.  Of course it is better than McCain's plan, but really really has a long way to go.

  Ah well.... nothing new.

patrick in BeijingOn Questions for Obama and Clinton from a Wisconsin farmer posted 1 year, 9 months ago 4 Responses

And on Charles

  I didn't see the youtube clip, but don't forget he also endorsed gay marriage.  His endorsement may be worth ten times as much as Al Gores, since he speaks to a different audience.

patrick in BeijingOn I'm back posted 1 year, 9 months ago 8 Responses

Bravo!!

   Thanks Tom!!  And good for Christian Parenti!!

   Alas, it is not clear that many people care (i am a veteran of the shoe wars!) in general, or even many environmentalists.

   We (me too!) have failed to make a convincing argument (in most people's eyes) of the connection between social justice and the environment.  Generally people working internationally get it, but not those working domestically (in the US).

   What would it take to convince people?  Or why don't they buy the arguments?  I don't know, frankly.

patrick in BeijingOn Fortune mag: widespread poverty and child labor in the cocoa-producing world posted 1 year, 9 months ago 5 Responses

An Organized Community

   Falsecast, I agree that the government can help pay for all of my suggestions.  I am a bit leery of making them dependent upon the adoption of one type of financing, though.  It turns the conversation from whether government should make the commitment to how it should be financed.  Get the commitment first!! (smile).

   Having an organized bicycle community is the best way to achieve pedal power.  Join local bicycling organizations (or create them!).

   Demand your local government have a bicycle council as part of any transportation advisory board (it can be voluntary, but should have as much authority as you can squeeze out of the government).

   In terms of children, people here ride with their kids all the time, on both vehicles with three wheels and small wagons, and on clunky old bikes.

   Speed is a tricky issue.  I prefer slower speeds (but then I am getting older).  My first thought, was "I have to slow down on bike to 20 mph?".

   But it would probably be good for me (smile).

   How about "Arise O Cyclists of the nation"?

patrick in BeijingOn A breathless appraisal of Lance's new bicycle mecca and mission posted 1 year, 9 months ago 30 Responses

Speaking of Quest For Fire

  Ha!!!  I thought I was the only person who liked the film.  It was much better than the awful series of caveman/woman films made starring Raquel Welch and others.  The best part was the language.

patrick in BeijingOn Post-Valentine's Day quickies posted 1 year, 9 months ago 5 Responses

Stop Here

    The deliberate promotion of policies that will lead to mass starvation should alone be enough to give people pause.  Again and again, folks have warned that biofuels will convert land from food production to fuel at a time when population is increasing, AND global warming is stressing agricultural systems.

     This alone should kill the whole idea.  (And for some it does.).

     For those who continue to advocate biofuels, what is your suggestion as to how the poor should get food?  1) Kill the rich and take it.  2) Eat the rich.  3) They should just die so I can be a pig  4)  I never think about the poor.  5)  Some deux-ex-machina will save them  6) Frankly, world, I don't give a damn 7) Other

patrick in BeijingOn Researchers find corn ethanol, switchgrass could worsen global warming posted 1 year, 9 months ago 111 Responses

End Game

   The Democrats have a real problem.  If the end of the process provides no clear winner, then there will have to be some sort of deal making.  It is not clear how a brokered convention (super-delegates) would play out with the supporters of either candidate.

   Clinton can offer Obama a guaranteed endorsement and support for 2012.  What can Obama offer Clinton to get her to give up the fight?  Not sure, but it would have to be good.

   Clinton will also make the argument (and has indeed begun to do so) that many of the states Obama won were won in caucuses.  That caucuses are not democratic, and are not indicative of a candidates ability to carry the state in a general election.  That in terms of primary states, she is actually doing quite well (up until now).

   She may also point out that winning caucus voters is not much different from winning super-delegates votes (Obama must be careful to "win" the super-delegates without alienating them.)

   The Democrats best hope (in some ways) is for one of the candidates to surge and knock the other out.  Clearly.  Cleanly (as much as possible, and there is plenty of mud on both sides at this point).

   Whatever happens, they need a situation in which the loser joins the winner on the platform, promises to endorse and campaign for, and does so joyfully.  Otherwise, McCain gains ground.

   If they are deadlocked, what does each of them offer to the other to lose?

patrick in BeijingOn Obama takes Maine in a wicked pissah posted 1 year, 9 months ago 3 Responses

Actually

   My current guess after the latest round is that Obama wins it.  And he will not consider Hillary as his VP (he needs a white man to overcome some of the lingering racism).  Look at the governors of VA, Ohio and perhaps (if it appears to be in play), PA.

   Of course after March 4th, things may change, but the big Mo is heading Obama's way.

patrick in BeijingOn Grist strives to be your #650,871st source of breaking primary news posted 1 year, 9 months ago 14 Responses

At the End

   Both parties have serious problems.

   For the Republicans, McCain is winning, but not really uniting their base.  It is not at all clear that a combination of moderate Republicans and Independents can lead to victory in November.  So, he is basically doomed, unless the Democrats self-destruct.

   For the Democrats, the problem is that no one is really running away with the race.  Deadlock means that someone has to concede.  If either Clinton or Obama starts to really pull away, that's okay.  If they stay as close as this until the end, they are in trouble.

   It is hard to imagine which one would step aside, and how party unity could be achieved.  Unity comes easily if someone wins clearly, if they don't, there are problems.

   Which of course, is McCain's best bet.  

   It may be a stranger year than we can imagine!

patrick in BeijingOn Grist strives to be your #650,871st source of breaking primary news posted 1 year, 9 months ago 14 Responses

Slams

    BTW, in terms of the criticism of the NAACP, I should note that I was a member for many years (since I don't live in the US at this point, and have very little money, I don't belong to anything anymore (smile)).

    I agree with RuthieJo.  And if we fail to listen to the many voices around us, we will fail.

patrick in Beijing On U.S. green movement is decidedly white posted 1 year, 9 months ago 16 Responses

Sustainable

     Would be a good name for an Indie rock band, one that records one hit then disappears.  

     Okay, I pretty much agree with what everyone is saying about the word, it's uses, misuses, and position as a quasi-religious icon.  And while I usually am willing to go after bad language (the 2008 presidential campaign speeches are able to make me feel ill), in this case, I fear confusing a public that is already not paying attention.

      The problem lies not in ourselves, but in the general publics perception.  They (and I am imagining here) see it as a word that means "solution", "problem solved".  While this is certainly not true, we run into the hair shirt vs. hope dilemma.

      If we spend too much time trying to explain the problems with the word sustainable, we end up both confusing and disheartening folks.

      (Of course, we could just hit them over the head with our clubs and drag them kicking and screaming into reality!)

      It has become a word, that is a slogan, a mantra for "a better future", and we all want that, don't we? (grin)

      As usual, English changes right before our very eyes!! (grin)

      I support Spaceshapers ideas about the alternatives.  We are having a hard enough time trying to convince people that something needs to be done without changing our language usage mid-campaign!!

      I suspect that by November we will have all three (or four) presidential campaigns claiming that their ideas are the most sustainable, meanwhile President Idiot will sign the "Sustainable Coal And Nuclear Power Boondoggle" of 2008.

patrick in Beijing

PS.  While I did enjoy the movie "Mongol", I was watching a version with only partial subtitles.  I have since discovered that many Mongolians feel that it distorts both Mongolian culture and history, and that most of the actors and actresses were non-Mongolian.  This is new information to me...

      On If people want to keep up with the Joneses, could they at least adopt a different set of Joneses? posted 1 year, 9 months ago 128 Responses

Sustainability

   Dear CanisCandida,

         Your attack on this word has been very interesting.  I hope that it is not reflective on any health problems for you or yours!!!

         It is certainly true that ultimately nothing is sustainable.  But there is a "relative sustainability, which will buy us some time to figure out other answers" and "absolutely unsustainable even in a very short term, which will cause us to self-destruct in no short order".

         Science in our modern era (and perhaps historically, you might know better than I) is often given to grand pronouncements for public relations purposes.  

         Is this good or bad?  Was King Canute right or wrong?  I don't know.  But, no matter how eloquently your rage against the changing of the language, it seems to me that you are as likely to stop the tides.

         Somehow I sense a deeper purpose behind this.  What, Dear CanisCandida, are you trying to tell us?

patrick in Beijing On If people want to keep up with the Joneses, could they at least adopt a different set of Joneses? posted 1 year, 9 months ago 128 Responses

Jobs

  Dear John,

        Thanks for the anecdotal evidence!!  I have nothing against any particular person getting the jobs (including white guys, I am one (smile)).

        I framed the issue the way I did, because one of the promises on which spending to develop renewables is being sold is that of providing good new jobs.

        Some of us care that these are spread around throughout the economy to people of all classes, colors and sexes.

patrick in BeijingOn Green energy projects bloom in California posted 1 year, 9 months ago 9 Responses

Disaster and Agriculture

  Dear Colin,

        Diamond never really impressed me.  

        The creatures with the longest and most successful lifestyle are bacteria.  There are more of them, and they are hardier.  So what?  Do I want to be a bacteria?  Do I envy them?

        The hunter-gatherer lifestyle seems to have been eagerly abandoned by most people on the planet.  There must be a reason.  It took them a long time to find a way out, but by golly, they did!!

        Diamond (and others) always seem to me to be romanticizing a past that I am not sure existed (in the way in which they describe it).  It is an interesting intellectual exercise.  My personal feeling is that it is much like the medieval fairs people participate in, great fun!!  If I was a hunter-gatherer, I would probably be dead (too old).  I prefer the alternatives (grin).

        But I am not sure what the connection to issues like global warming and other modern environmental issues is.  What would we do based on this information (if we believed it)?  Is it in any way practical?  How would it help us address our issues?

patrick in BeijingOn If people want to keep up with the Joneses, could they at least adopt a different set of Joneses? posted 1 year, 9 months ago 128 Responses

Population Logic

  Dear Steve,

       You never address the issue, so this is my last try with you.  I know who Pimentel is, he is a scientist respected for his bug work, but also has aligned himself with the nativist xenophobic anti-immigration movement.

       Since I have no respect for any of them, I don't really care what illogic concerning human population they put out.

       I spent a number of years working on population issues, and frankly, there are a number of organizations that claim to be about population, but who really talk about immigration, and aren't population people.

       We don't seem to be having a discussion.  Merely cross-asserting, which is okay, but becomes pointless.

       If you want to "discuss", please show me where my logic is wrong.

       In any case, happy year of the rat!

patrick in BeijingOn If people want to keep up with the Joneses, could they at least adopt a different set of Joneses? posted 1 year, 9 months ago 128 Responses

Missing the Point

  Dear Wolverine,

       The current environmental movement in America is not doing fine on its own.  The battle against global warming is being lost, wetlands are being degraded, water is not being cleaned up and... well the list is long.

       If you are suggesting coalitions, that is indeed fine.

       But it is not true that minorities have no interest in the environment.  It is true that there is a lot of racism (of different kinds) in the white mainstream environmental movement that keeps it almost all white.

       It is also true that the US is changing demographically, that unless the environmental movement understands this, and begins to change, it's base (a small percentage of a shrinking percentage of the population) will doom it to irrelevance.

       The question for white main stream environmentalists is which is more important to you....

       1) Dealing with racial issues and broadening your base so that you can win on environmental issues

                  or

        2) Refusing to deal with racial issues (because it is difficult and they are uncomfortable to deal with) and losing on environmental issues, but keeping comfortable about who is in the room.

patrick in Beijing

       On U.S. green movement is decidedly white posted 1 year, 9 months ago 16 Responses

Schools

  I am not a terribly traditional school teacher (in some ways, I am often criticized because my classes are too loud and rowdy, the kids too active).

  Fix the schools, yes!!!  But be careful not to wander down the path of modern schooling is all wrong if you don't have a clear cut alternative!!

  (The demiecrats in californiyay joined up with the great cummincater ronnie raygun to agree that the mental health hospitals were horrible, they should be shut down and then later we would replace them with community based programs, YAY!!!  Shut them down!!!  ummm, say whatever happened to those community based programs we were gonna get ... oh, the money went to tax cuts for the rich???  WHA HAPPENED!!).

    I bring this up, because there are a number of people running around attacking the very notion of public schooling as being part of some brainwashing system (if you never went to school, please raise your hand!), and it seems to me to be a dangerous trend...

patrick  in BeijingOn If people want to keep up with the Joneses, could they at least adopt a different set of Joneses? posted 1 year, 9 months ago 128 Responses

Military Conversion

  Hi Jon,

      I spent some time on military conversion, say, oh 30+ years ago.

      While it seems like a good idea, what happens, in fact is somewhat different than expected.

      Instead of going along with changing direction and converting their military base into a civilian base with no loss of jobs or revenue, presto chango, they instead decide to keep the military base and expand their overall base to include the new civilian projects!!

      So, they fight to keep the military going on, and they fight to get the lion's share of any increased civilian spending (hey, we can always cut schools and aid to the poor to make up the difference!).

      That seems to me to be the problem with conversion (I would love to be convinced otherwise!).

      Part of it is, that the military program is incredibly corrupt.  Which means that lots of people make lots more money than they really should.  And they know it.

      It is one thing to ask people to give up one kind of honest labor for another, but damn hard to ask them to give up a corrupt gravy laden system for honest labor.

      Maybe the best way to work conversion would be to promise them that they could bring their corrupt practices with them to the civilian projects.

    cynically yours,

patrick in BeijingOn Converting the permanent military economy to a green economy posted 1 year, 9 months ago 41 Responses

Skipping the Primaries

   Frankly, I am glad that Obama and Clinton have slowed down the attack rhetoric (though it still seems to me that they both have a bunch of nasty, nasty partisans!!) (And the Rethuglican attacks on both of them remind me of just how evil minded THEY are!).

   On environmental issues, a slight edge to Clinton, on immigration a slight edge to Obama, on Iraq, nothing great from either of them.

   (And NO!, I don't care about how they voted in the past, I care about what they would do when they took office, and neither is really great there).

   I have no interest in debating their ad strategies (tastes great, less filling).  

   Show me the issues!!!

patrick in Beijing On Obama Super Bowl ad posted 1 year, 9 months ago 4 Responses

Families

   There are responsibilities that people have and feel (and take very seriously) beyond their blood families.  Life and relationships are much more complicated than that.

patrick in BeijingOn If people want to keep up with the Joneses, could they at least adopt a different set of Joneses? posted 1 year, 9 months ago 128 Responses

Cause and Effect

   Dear Max,

         At this point in time, it seems to me that our understanding of global weather systems is to imperfect to really be sure of cause and effect.  Maybe in another two hundred years the science will catch up.  And I have no idea what it will say.

         From my point of view (non-scientist, admittedly), this means we have to go with our best guess or hunch.  And there is a pretty huge consensus that points us in this direction.  Are there maybe flaws or things we don't understand?  You bet!!!  Who knows what we'll discover in the next two hundred years.

          If we're around to discover it.  Frankly, it has always seemed to me that the IPCC downplays the possible consequences.  I suspect that this is for political reasons, and I understand, they would never get America to sign off on anything if they said that 500 million or even a billion people will begin to migrate around the world.

          My guess is massive northward migrations into currently temperate countries by those who are living within striking distance of the equator.  Massive meaning hundreds of millions.  It will be very interesting, no?

          When it gets really really hot, no one will fly South, because no one will be there who can move.

          We live in interesting times.  It may even be that we cannot stop the process from going forward, but can we mitigate it?  And shouldn't we at least try?

          It is true that the smoking models are better and further along.  But we began to put warnings on labels (in the US) back when the evidence was merely statistical, with no proven causal link.  It turned out to be a good thing!!

take care,

patrick in Beijing On The parallels between accepting obesity and ignoring global warming posted 1 year, 9 months ago 71 Responses

What People Believe

  Dear Max,

      My impression from reading the world press (and talking to people) is that outside the US, the vast majority of people (if they think about it at all), think that human CO2 emissions are the cause of global warming, and that we'd better do something about it.

      So, I'm not sure who you're talking to.  BTW, I saw the BBC4 documentary attacking global warming, and I also read some of the debates.  The deniers are not really very convincing.

      Having said that, no ones knows the cause of much of anything (does smoking "cause" cancer).  If we adopt that line of thought, we often end up paralyzed, doing nothing.

       We don't know what will happen if we do something, but most people believe if we do nothing, things will get worse.

       It seems to me that the reason so many nations gather together in Bali and argue and argue and negotiate and negotiate, is because they all believe that human CO2 emissions are the cause, and that human actions can have an impact.

       Of course, all of the solutions you suggest are welcome.  I am not sure either about cap and trade or carbon taxes as solutions.  (I tend to cynically suspect that either one will have a nice label on it, and some dirty underpinnings.)

       For any Europeans who advocate doing nothing, I hope you are at least adding extra room to your abodes for all the refugees from Africa and the middle sure to be heading your way!!

       Good luck!!

patrick in BeijingOn The parallels between accepting obesity and ignoring global warming posted 1 year, 9 months ago 71 Responses

San Francisco Sierra Club

  Dear Wolverine,

        The national Sierra Club gets it, the local chapters mostly don't.  The programs you speak of, while well intentioned, were aimed at children.  The issue for the environmental movement is who sits among the adults at the table (and a non-white spokesperson in a video doesn't cut it!!  sorry).

        At Sierra Club meetings, the leadership and the membership is almost all white (San Francisco and the Bay Area (except Marin County, which is very white and very racist) is an area that is incredibly diverse and mostly non-white).

        The anti-immigration movement is racist at its core (which does not mean that ABSOLUTELY EVERY SINGLE PERSON who has these feelings is a racist).  The movement always talks about not only population but culture being under attack.  The degree to which it infects the environmental movement is terrible.  It is a cancer that the movement has trouble treating.

        Your final statement is cute.  Re-define the terms and you solve the problem??  I don't think so!!  Now, re-distribute the money, and you might have something (smile).

patrick in BeijingOn U.S. green movement is decidedly white posted 1 year, 9 months ago 16 Responses

Speaking of Movies

   Ahem, since this movie showed the struggle of one family to survive and create a more just world, I thought it might fit here (okay, I just watched it, it blew me away, and what the heck).

   Can I recommend "Mongol"?  (Disclaimer, one of my best friends was on the crew, which is why I watched it, initially (and no, she is not famous, so I don't gain sideways status from knowing her)).

   It is the story of Ghengis Khan, told from a different point of view.  The scenery is beautiful, and the film is mythic in scope.  (I am a sucker for mythic films well done).

   The movie has cute children, meditation in a cage, lots of horses, and a very unusual love story.

patrick in Beijing

   On If people want to keep up with the Joneses, could they at least adopt a different set of Joneses? posted 1 year, 9 months ago 128 Responses

Labelling Groups

  Dear Wiscidea,

       When you speak of labeling groups ("Americans", anyway), you may be speaking of me (laughing)!!  Yes, I do!!  It is of course intentional, and I am glad I got your attention (now if only I could figure out a way to do it that was helpful.... sigh...).  

       But, please remember, name aside, I am as American as anyone else posting.  When you said "when Asian governments manage to stop .... they can assume the moral highground and condemn the rest of us".  I wanted to stand up and cheer!!!

       Here's the thing, that behavior you find annoying in "Asian governments" (who are not involved in posting here, it is alas, only me, your fellow American), is exactly what America does to the rest of the world!!  

       Big Grin!!  You made my day!!!

       Alas, you did so by generalizing, but well, there you go...

       And I should have given you props for your earlier comment as well, eh, I got a bit distracted there.  The idea of "Enact" sounds pretty useful, is it able to find a way to deal with class and race?  It sounds geographically based which might make this difficult.

    I agree with your comments about all of us being connected (wherever you derive them from, to each their own path).  It seems to me that our inability to see this at a deep level is one of the factors keeping us from progressing.

Dear CanisCandida,

       Will Madame G. return to visit us once more?  I am not sure.  

       I do thank you for your kind words (I am still chuckling over the description of me as a hippy - how lovely!!!).

       How wisely you write when you say "It strikes me as a form of cynicism in that sense, to assert that biology is destiny, that human beings are entrapped in their primate brains, and that they can never be counted on to act otherwise than how their competitive, status-seeking primate instincts direct."

       But we should also note that primates show instincts for not only competition but for cooperation, for playfulness, for love, for relaxing in the sun and grooming a friend.  One of my concerns is that I feel too often, we see the competition as the ruling house, misunderstanding the richness and complexity of who we are, and who we can be.

patrick in Beijing

       On If people want to keep up with the Joneses, could they at least adopt a different set of Joneses? posted 1 year, 9 months ago 128 Responses

Rich Names

  Dear Max,

       I am not much of an admirer of rich people, fwiw.  I don't know all of the names on your list.  I will note that studies have shown that rich people give very little money towards eliminating poverty, and not very much towards educating the poor.  Most of their donations goes towards museums, universities and sometimes health.

       Generally charity is nice, but it keeps the power and choice in the hands of the rich.  This is different from, say, taxation (which removes the choice of payment) and re-distribution of wealth (which potentially can remove the power to decide on the recipients).

       In terms of global need, $75 billion is not something to be sneezed at, but hardly enough.  

       What makes more sense is to tax the rich, then spend the money of solving all of our global problems.  Of course, this includes corporations as well as individuals.

       We could do it, if we wished.

patrick in BeijingOn The parallels between accepting obesity and ignoring global warming posted 1 year, 10 months ago 71 Responses

Dear John

   Have I been ignoring you too much lately, so you posted your Taiwan idea to get me to respond?  ROFLMAO.

   Actually, this last year saw the Kuomintang become best friends with the Chinese government.  Most Taiwanese seem to favor the status quo, but I bet that many of the Kuomintang leaders will come to Beijing for the Olympics!!!  

   (It is going to be amazing!!  Any bettors?? (smile).

   In terms of this thread in general, Monbiot is mostly right.

   We have the technical ability to solve our problems.  But the unwillingness of the well off to do their share may block the whole plan.

   Population is being addressed (with resistance, not from the poor, but from the rich (in America) who don't want to provide the pittance it would take to help solve this problem).

   It's really the first issue that we are failing to address.  

   Cassandra runs down the street yelling "consumption, consumption".

patrick in Beijing

   On Gristmill's most persistent troll earns props posted 1 year, 10 months ago 8 Responses

Lead And Mercury

   Dear Tasermons Partner,

       I noticed you provided no links for your assertions (as usual.... sigh...).

       So, here are a few.

       Regarding Mercury generally,

http://ec.europa.eu/environment/chemicals/mercury/pdf/con ...

and

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=940CE1D61F ...

Here is a quote for you.

"Once again, a few countries led by US and India delayed real progress, whereas the EU, the African Region, Japan, Brazil, the Philippines, Norway and Switzerland were ready to make a political decision on a legally binding instrument as the way forward," said Elena Lymberidi from the European Environmental Bureau. "Instead, we have a process to consider options during the next Governing Council in 2009. We must finally move beyond promising words into real action."

http://www.mercurypolicy.org/

And hey, what's up with lead???  According to most sources I can find,

"In China, the National Petroleum Corporation is planning to phase out lead by 2000. As of July 1997, 56 percent of all gasoline produced in China was unleaded."

http://www.leadpoison.net/prevent/phasing-out.htm

http://www.osat.umich.edu/research/global/164_Chinaenviro ...

http://www.jari.jp/pdf/rt2004/02liisa_eng.pdf

Again, if you have any facts, as opposed to assertions, please feel free to provide them.

Yet, despite this, you are missing the point.  It's like there is this huge elephant in the room and you won't look at it.

Comparing developing nations to developed nations (not just China and the US,  but any such comparisons) is wrong.  And unfair.  And counterproductive.

Developing nations lack the resources and money necessary to be as clean as developed nations could be (if they tried).

If you want to change the world, try showing it how, instead of calling it names.

patrick in Beijing
On Bush rehashes same ol' environmental ideas in final State of the Union speech posted 1 year, 10 months ago 21 Responses

Bicycling in China

  Dear Manacker,

      As a lifelong cyclist who has cycled in many major cities in the US, Canada and China, I will tell you that cycling in China is much safer.  While the absolute number of deaths is higher, the number of deaths in proportion to the number of miles ridden would show a different story.

      And from the ground, I gave up bike commuting in San Francisco because too many (NOT most) drivers were homicidal maniacs who thought that trying to injure me or kill me was a cute idea.

      In Beijing, if a car hits a cyclist, it is the drivers fault.  ALWAYS, 100%!!!  By law!!!  In America, the driver merely says "Oh, I didn't see him/her" and the police go "Okay, that's all right then."

      The worst drivers I ever saw in America were in Boston, with New York a close second (too fast, too little regard for others).  But liberal San Franciscans weren't much better!!

      BTW, there are many fat cyclists.

      Fat is as much an aesthetic issue as any thing else.  Health should be the issue, we should study health, not appearance.

      And finally, the basic problem with Andrew's analogy is that it turns into arguments about appearance and not substance (well, beyond the fact that it's poor and insulting (smile)).

      How about substituting rich people for fat people in the analogy?  Would that work better?

patrick in BeijingOn The parallels between accepting obesity and ignoring global warming posted 1 year, 10 months ago 71 Responses

And it's worse

    Read this and don't pay attention to the human suffering, but consider the environmental consequences.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/JB01Ak02.html

   BTW, the Chinese military budget is only about 1/10th the US military budget.

   Don't know about the French, English, Germans, Japanese and Canadians, or the Indians and Pakistanis.

   patrick in BeijingOn New report compares military and climate spending posted 1 year, 10 months ago 9 Responses

Happiness for Type B's

   It may be that happiness includes winning for Type A personalities.  But there is a problem with the idea that we are all hardwired to need to win.  We aren't.

   Or a fair number of us have defective wiring (did I really just type that??  My bad.)

   If you stepped away from America, you might conclude that it is a culture failure, not something biological (Americans REALLY need to learn more about the world).

    In traveling China, I have met people who didn't like Beijing, because they felt like people in Beijing work too hard.  They preferred less money and a more sociable life.  

    In Chengdu, one of the characteristics of the local culture is spending time in tea houses.  Where people sit outdoors (often) sip tea, chat with their friends, enjoy strolling massages or ear cleanings, play cards, just relax.  The city is full of outdoor teahouses which have lots of people in them.

    There are other similar places.

    A popular joke.  A rich businessman is strolling on the beach, a rare break from his busy schedule, but still talking and sending messages on his cell phone.  He sees a poor man lying in the sun on the beach relaxing.  Angrily he says "Why aren't you working?"  The poor man replies "I like lying on the beach relaxing."  The rich man says "If you worked long hours on a fishing boat, you could save your money, then someday buy a boat, then buy another.  When you got rich, you could come and relax on the beach!"  The poor man replies "I already am."

patrick in BeijingOn If people want to keep up with the Joneses, could they at least adopt a different set of Joneses? posted 1 year, 10 months ago 128 Responses

Anecdotes

    Dear Wave,

         One thing you should know by now is that there is something wrong with the way you are approaching the subject.  I say this because you are failing.

         The cultural difference is called "Americanism".  Most Americans of all colors do not recycle.  You happen to be in a group of people who do not recycle.  Their skin color is not relevant (unless you could somehow demonstrate that all white people rush to recycle (or brown or yellow)).

         I am sorry you are having trouble communicating with people around you, and believe you have the best intentions.  But for any subject, just telling people to change their behavior usually fails.

         You might find that you would have a similar experience with a group of white people, depending on the group.

         The issue here is the color of the environmental movement in America.  It must be noted that we are talking about the large wealthy organization environmental movement, not the environmental justice movement!!! (smile).

         Some people believe that unless the MEGs( Mainstream Environmental Groups) can find ways to become more inclusive, they are doomed to fail.

         The questions are 1) Do people want to be more inclusive?  and 2) If so, how can the become more inclusive?

patrick in Beijing

         On U.S. green movement is decidedly white posted 1 year, 10 months ago 16 Responses

Making Plans

   Not wanting to be only negative (smile).

   Let me offer some positive ideas.

   Green groups can begin by identifying organizations in their areas that involved in environmental justice (or that include environmental justice issues in their work).

   Invite them to attend a meeting and give a presentation.  Ask permission to do the same.

   Invite, invite, invite.  Keep doing it and mean it.

   Visit schools in poor neighborhoods, ask to do presentations.  Look for volunteers among poor high school students.  Treat them with respect (do I need to say this?).  Get involved in local issues of environmental justice.

   When there are fairs or events in poor communities, be present.  Participate.

   Imagine that you could add 50% to your strength, and understand that you begin by listening to that 50%, and then sharing ideas (not telling people what to do).

   Be serious about wanting diversity.  Be respectful and listen.  Be patient.  Try to look at organizational behaviors that may be keeping people away.

   If we can do this, we can beat global warming!!!

patrick in BeijingOn Further data on the environmental movement's diversity challenge posted 1 year, 10 months ago 5 Responses

Regulations

  Dear Tasermons Partner,

     It's a big world, you should realize that all CO2 in China doesn't come from coal plants.  So, your example doesn't make any sense.

     And if you think that all pollutants in America are regulated, you should go to the San Francisco Bay and look at the signs warning people against eating much fish from the bay, because of .... (drum roll) pollutants!!!

     (Unless the warning signs are what you mean by regulated!)

     Or you could wander down to the Charles River in Boston, bend over and drink some of its clear sparkling water (joking, joking!!!  health advisory warning, this could lead to serious illness or even death!).

     Hmmm, I wonder, does the CO2 from American planes bombing Iraq get counted against Iraq or America?  

patrick in BeijingOn Bush rehashes same ol' environmental ideas in final State of the Union speech posted 1 year, 10 months ago 21 Responses

Obama Vs. Clinton

   My general inclination is to support any Democratic nominee, though of the top three, I prefer Edwards (for his talk about poverty, there are many issues I disagree with him on).

   Basically, the big two seem to be pretty similar on the issues to me, with things to like and dislike about both of them.

   But there is this.  I was just reading comments about the election on a number of blogs.

   When I read comments from Clinton supporters, they made me want to vote for Obama.

   When I read comments from Obama supporters, they made me want to vote for Clinton.

   Yech.

patrick in BeijingOn Florida primary posted 1 year, 10 months ago 4 Responses

Hold on a bit

   Florida is no more representative than New Hampshire or Iowa.

   McCain gets the Giuliani vote, but what does Huckabee do?  If he drops out, where do his voters go?  Will the go to McCain or to Romney?

   As the field narrows, we still haven't seen a unified "hard right".  

   Will McCain appear too moderate for them?  Or will Romney's Mormonism finally deter them.

   It may be over, or it may not.  I would wait a bit in both parties before declaring any victors.

   Clinton's vote is interesting too, the breakdown suggests that nothing is over.

   Certainly interesting times!!

patrick in BeijingOn Florida primary posted 1 year, 10 months ago 4 Responses

Sorry to burst your bubbles

   The developing nations (including China and India ) are, and remain part of the process that is working towards stopping global warming, they are all involved in negotiations towards a new international treaty.

   It is true that since their PER CAPITA (some of you may need to look this term up) emissions are much less than developed countries, they want a mechanism that takes that into account, and allows them to feed and provide a decent lifestyle for their people.

   John, using your logic, we are going to average your emissions with Bill Gates, then we will ask you both to reduce your half of the total sum to around the world average.  (Gates can do it, you may have to stop breathing, but then, isn't that what you are proposing for the developing nations?) (smile).

   You should all note, that no one outside of the US buys the "China and India" argument.  Everyone sees it for what it is, and excuse by the richest most polluting nation to do nothing.

patrick in BeijingOn Bush rehashes same ol' environmental ideas in final State of the Union speech posted 1 year, 10 months ago 21 Responses

My Two Fen

   Love family, friends and a simple life.

patrick in Beijing

   Lots of great slogans!!!  Why limit ourselves to one!!  Use them all!!On Here's your chance to be the Pollan of climate change posted 1 year, 10 months ago 94 Responses

Agreed

  Dear David,

     We do need both, and we need everyone to work together.  A house divided against itself cannot stand.  Nor can an environmental movement.

     But what price is asked for unity?  And why doesn't it happen?

     Given the stakes and clear dangers, what are our roadblocks??

patrick in BeijingOn Van et al posted 1 year, 10 months ago 1 Response

Bad believers

   Most people understand that the sun rises in the East and sets in the West.  Good people and bad people.

   There are some lovely people who believe in the tooth fairy, the Easter bunny, Santa Claus and trickle down economics (now how did that last one get on the list?).

   Irrationality isn't always about good or bad, it's about the ability to recognize reality, understand science, and see clearly.  Oh, wait, that was rationality.  Hmmmm...

patrick in BeijingOn AGU releases position statement on climate change posted 1 year, 10 months ago 62 Responses

Update

   I am not sure what will end up replacing plastic bags here, certainly a mixture of reusable things (historically, people carried baskets to go shopping, and I have heard some people advocating a return to those ways).

   The bigger markets have started to put up posters near the cash registers telling people to reject plastic bags and to bring in their own reusable bags.

    Usually, people have to check packages and bags when they enter big supermarkets (this checking is free, and actually is fairly convenient).

    A couple of times lately, I have been waved through with my backpack, and thus able to fill it up at the register.  I see a very few other people doing this.  But it's early.  Still January, and the ban takes effect in roughly five months.

    It will be interesting to see how it plays out!

patrick in BeijingOn Whole Foods to stop giving out plastic grocery bags by Earth Day posted 1 year, 10 months ago 18 Responses

What is especially interesting

   is the complete difference between what Randy Oliver says and what the main stream media reports.  If Mr. Oliver is correct, we need to be very frightened of how the MSM is going to handle global warming.  Very frightened.

patrick in BeijingOn A long-time beekeeper's take on colony collapse posted 1 year, 10 months ago 9 Responses

Dodgy Issues

   Legume Sam says "As I suggested above, the seedbeds of ecosocialism are the environmentalism of the poor, the environmental justice movement, the movement for community gardens, and so on.  The movement need not be fully formed, or united, as of the present moment."

   This is a solution for global warming??  Not really.  (And btw, I have been involved in the latter two movements (such as they are)).

   Ultimately, this is another distractor, more "business as usual", more "pie in the sky by and by".

   The environmentalism of the poor is great, I support it.  It involves very small numbers of people worldwide, and will soon be engulfed by the fight for survival during massive climate change.  I wish otherwise, but really, there is little possibility of otherwise (smile).

   The environmental justice movement is also great (which is not "one" movement, but rather the name given to a wide variety of peoples and organizations fighting for justice and the environment), but is also small, underfunded and always struggling just to survive.  In fifty years, able to take on the global powers?  Maybe.

   But unless white environmentalists (I am talking about America, since that seems to be the real focus here (smile)) find a way to deal with issues of race and class (no signs so far), it is unlikely to be powerful enough to address the issue of global warming in the timeframes required.

   The movement for community gardens??  Great people, but are you kidding me??  As a force for some kind of ecosocialism??  Not even close.

   So, what we have finally, is either the present system or nothing.  Which is not how I would like the world to be, but is reality.

   Global Warming needs to be addressed in the short term future, or we are all f***k*d (to quote David Roberts).  

   Waiting for some idealistic imagined Utopian future to solve the problem only makes things worse.

   Ecosocialism thus becomes part of the problem, not part of the solution.  Too bad.

patrick in BeijingOn Schools should be talking about climate change solutions posted 1 year, 10 months ago 63 Responses

Seedbeds

  Dear LegumeSam,

        The attempts (no one has succeeded yet) to build a sustainable world that creates a reasonable standard of living for all are not "utopian" because they are based on real conditions and are existing on-going struggles.  (You might argue that they have no more chance of success than ecosocialism, but then, they are underway.).

        The problem with ecosocialism is that lacking a clear blueprint on how to get there, or clear definitions, it is impossible for most of use to discuss.  

        The difference between "Utopian" and other ideas, is that "Utopian" ideas usually lack clear blueprints.  Perhaps that is the nature of the struggle.

         Global warming is a crisis beginning to occur now.  There isn't (in my mind) time to create anything other than the conditions under which we now find ourselves in order to solve it.

         You say that ecosocialism could provide a better solution to global warming.  I don't disagree at all with this statement!!!

         My problem (as always) is that I don't see either a roadmap nor a crowd heading in that direction, and I don't think we have time to wait for either to appear.

patrick in Beijing

         On Schools should be talking about climate change solutions posted 1 year, 10 months ago 63 Responses

Cars

   Everyone blames obesity on food and individual will.  Why not look at cars?  Most Americans have given up walking, and especially those in the suburbs, walk very little.  At one time (many years ago!), I changed jobs.  The only difference in my lifestyle was that in one job, I drove to work, in the other I took the bus, then walked about a  mile each way.  In a month I gained 20 pounds.

   http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/11/061101151156 ...

   This is the link to the red wine obesity article.

   In truth, we know less about fat than we think we do.  Much of how we look at the issue is through biased eyes.

   People who are thin believe that they have accrued virtue from it.  They then believe that those who are fat are not virtuous.  (Americans have the same peculiar beliefs around wealth and poverty!).

   Andrews analogy is bad for one simple reason.

   Many people who are fat have tried to lose weight and failed (millions of Americans).  If they read Andrew's message, they will not draw the conclusion that stopping global warming is easy.  They will conclude that it is next to impossible (based on their weight loss experiences!).  

   So, Andrew is really telling people that making changes is very difficult, maybe almost impossible.

   Is that really his intended message?

patrick in BeijingOn The parallels between accepting obesity and ignoring global warming posted 1 year, 10 months ago 71 Responses

Nations Catching Up

   Dear LegumeSam,

        You state that "Circumstances have changed; the world has industrialized, and so  there are no longer any nations which have to "catch up" in capitalist development.  Thus the whole "contender state" framework is falling apart; maybe nations such as Venezuela, Iran, and China, and Russia can be counted as "contender states" in a trivial sense, as they resist imperialism, but they too are industrialized, and they moreover trade with the "core," if indeed there still is such a thing."

       (You left out India, Brazil and South Africa, was this on purpose?)

       Without discussing the notion of "contender states", I do want to point out that it is not true that "Venezuela, Iran, and China, and Russia  ........are industrialized",  These are huge countries and their growth is uneven.  How uneven may be hard to imagine from the US, but very uneven.

       And please define what you mean by "industrialized"??  

       The problem with this comment is it seems to trivialize the difficulties that developing nations are facing on the road to achieving a sustainable reasonably well off society for all of their peoples.  My inclination is to believe that this was not your intention, but certainly would like to ask for clarification.

patrick in BeijingOn Schools should be talking about climate change solutions posted 1 year, 10 months ago 63 Responses

When??

   It is lovely to say that the poor will benefit, but as usual, no one ever says "when".  It reminds me of the old song "There'll be pie in the sky by and by."

   It is certainly true that some farmers will benefit from biofuels.  It is also true that right NOW, the urban poor are beginning to hurt.

   Of course, police agencies will benefit (more police needed to control starving rioters), arms manufacturers (they ALWAYS benefit... funny, eh?), oil companies (they will buy up the production and distribution systems when it becomes worthwhile).

   And some day.... (when, oh, when??) the poor will somehow (how, oh, how???) benefit.

   In all of this Mr. Khosla has never answered the critics (look at the UN) who point out that biofuels are causing serious food inflation already, BEFORE they are a massive part of the energy equation.

   They are a dangerous choice.  

patrick in BeijingOn The most critical assumption on cellulosic biofuels: yields posted 1 year, 10 months ago 14 Responses

Presidents

   Now the real irony will be if after he leaves office, GWB decides to devote his life to fighting global warming....

   Seriously, though, Gore's point of view is correct.

   If you agree with him, you should stop and think about what is wrong with America's system of governance that has allowed it to be hijacked by a small number of wealthy individuals (and the organizations they love so well!).

patrick in BeijingOn Why Al Gore isn't running for president posted 1 year, 10 months ago 25 Responses

Water

   Water flows downhill, following the path of least resistance.

   Farmers are going to produce biofuels the easiest cheapest way they can.  Which currently means corn, soy, cane (in Brazil only) and palm.

   All of which displace food crops.  Food inflation worldwide is rising rapidly.  The UN (you know, those folks who told us about global warming) says that biofuels are a big part of this.

   No one is producing biofuels from anything other than food crops for commercial use.  NO ONE.

   The corn market is world wide, in much of the world, corn is a staple, not a source for sugar additives.  Americans should notice that they live not only in a country, but in a world.

   Mr. Khosla's arguments about biofuels benefiting farmers in developing countries DIRECTLY contradict his arguments that food crops won't be affected by biofuels.  Sloppy logic.

   It's nice that a few farmers are getting richer.  But the urban poor everywhere are suffering.  Why don't we see this as unacceptable?  Biofuels are a bad idea and need to be stopped, before we create more starvation.  NOW.

patrick in Beijing On Where will biofuels and biomass feedstocks come from? posted 1 year, 10 months ago 16 Responses

The Chinese Ban

    Will take effect on June 1st.  There are already news stories interviewing people.  A few think it will be inconvenient, but most people accept that it is worthwhile for the environment.  Business accepts it (publicly) since everyone has to do it at the same time and thus the playing field and inconvience is level.

    When I go to the market and refuse bags (now), people smile (I see some Chinese folks doing the same, the advanced wave!!).

    There is a real advantage to having the government make this a law nationwide.

patrick in BeijingOn Whole Foods to stop giving out plastic grocery bags by Earth Day posted 1 year, 10 months ago 18 Responses

The Other Side

   How are thin people like environmentalists??

   Most thin people don't know why they are thin, they just are.  In fact, many of them can eat lots and lots of food and still stay thin.  They attribute this to their being superior people, whether biologically, morally or intellectually.  They often think that only the thin are really intelligent and capable of understanding the world.

   Being thin and superior, they seek to tell the world how it can become thin (it can never be superior, that position on the totem pole is already taken, thank  you!!).

   They often tell people who are struggling with a lot of issues "just eat less" (though they themselves often eat quite a bit, but never mind, that superior metabolism makes it okay for them).

   When people don't seem to be listening, they raise their voices "EAT LESS I SAY", then sit back and wonder why everyone hasn't lost weight yet.

   If some people suggest that obesity may be more complicated than merely a matter of eating and will power, they pooh pooh it.  They know, after all the proof is in their thinness!!

   So, they nag and nag, but nothing changes.  Well, at least they feel superior.

patrick in BeijingOn The parallels between accepting obesity and ignoring global warming posted 1 year, 10 months ago 71 Responses

Left Party??

  Dear S5,

    What left party??  Left of what??  Both Clinton and Obama are center-right.  It is true they are to the left of the far right, but really that doesn't say much.

    Let me repeat, I changed my registration shortly after the US Senate voted 99-0 to fund Star Wars research.  I realized then that there was no "left" among the two major parties.

    And nothing I have seen since then has changed my mind.

patrick in BeijingOn What is the Green Party up to, exactly? posted 1 year, 10 months ago 23 Responses

Caucuses

   Caucuses have nothing to do with democracy and everything to do with organization, which most of the time these days, means money.

   Edwards loses because despite his showing in the polls, his supporters did not turn out.  It can happen, especially with a caucus system.  Clinton and Obama were both stronger organizationally.

   More interesting is that Mitt won to balance McCain in South Carolina.  Unless Rudy wakes from the dead, we may soon have two two candidate races.

   The Democrats are pretty much twins (except for style) (although Obama's "raygun is allright by me" quote may turn out to be suicidal), but the Republicans could get down and dirty with each other.  Should be a good show.

   If he's still on the ballot, John Edwards gets my vote.  But he was always doomed.  Who in the hell cares about poverty, social justice and a fair and equitable society in todays' America?

patrick in BeijingOn Your weekend in caucuses posted 1 year, 10 months ago 5 Responses

Apples and Oranges

   I wonder what in the hell smog in Beijing has to do with American MacMansions and SUVs??  Is he/she suggesting that because poor people in the developing world don't want to starve, that SUVs and MacMansions are justifiable??  

   The write reminds me of a group, The Insane Clown Posse (actually, a lovely funny group), in terms of the name at least.

   There is a difference between considering an SUV or a MacMansion as "not being poor" and considering having enough to eat, being able to educate your kid as "not being poor".  The standard desired is not the same in every place.

   Bleh!!!  Indeed!!

patrick in BeijingOn The privileged attitude of the motorhead posted 1 year, 10 months ago 28 Responses

Clarification

  Dear LegumeSam,

       I'm pretty sure I know the answer, but thought I'd ask anyway (I am wrong from time to time (grin)).

       In your first point, do you mean you used to be a member of the Green Party or you used to be a red??

patrick in BeijingOn U.S. Green Party holds its first presidential debate of the season posted 1 year, 10 months ago 20 Responses

SF Sierra Club

  Dear Wolverine,

       Debating the virtues and sins of the SF Sierra Club doesn't interest me, but I was active in it and close to it for a number of years.

       The California League of Conservation Voters has done a much better job of reaching out to the poor and disenfranchised, IMHO.  

       I have to admit, that there is much to admire about Earth First!, but also much to dislike.  Talk about an organization with issues around race and class!!  So, forgive me, but I don't consider them progressive, but rather right conservationists.

       If you call China totally evil, you should call the whole world totally evil, which removes all meaning from the term.  Bicycling in Beijing is still a lot better than it is in SF.  (And there are now cheap rental bikes available at major bus stops!!)

       I never thought racism in the US was over, and didn't need the studies.  I worked in enough corporations and organizations to see it first hand.

       Blaming the poor is pointless, you should instead be asking how to organize the poor (and the Greens do a poor (smile) job of that, and have their own problems with race and class).

       SF is a peculiar city, it talks real pretty, but every year more poor people are driven out (as I was about eight years ago) by higher housing costs.  And it's treatment of poor people would be scandalous if anyone cared.  

       It was a small but powdery snow in Beijing, still on the ground a bit, the city looks lovely (at least in my part of it!!).

       The Greens may not be much (I was never an active member, merely registered, I was active in other organizations), but just as people suggest working to improve the major parties, it might be useful for some folks to work to improve the Greens.

patrick in BeijingOn U.S. Green Party holds its first presidential debate of the season posted 1 year, 10 months ago 20 Responses

Tell Us What You Think

  Randy,

      While your general thrust is clear, you should offer more specifics.  To be honest, I am not sure exactly what you mean.  Sometimes it is hard to separate the wheat from the fertilizer (grin).

      Seriously, some detailed talking points, please.

  Tboggia,

      Join, organize something in the time between the presidential elections.  Your local Green Party would be delighted, I am sure!!

      Some of us are sick of evil, lessor and greater (and the thin, thin wall of sleaze that separates them).

patrick in BeijingOn What is the Green Party up to, exactly? posted 1 year, 10 months ago 23 Responses

Rent Control

   Where there are housing shortages, there is no such thing as "the going rate", rather there is only what the market will bear.  If we give poor renters subsidies for living in small units, then the most likely reaction of landlords is to raise the rents by almost the same amount, thus transferring the money to their pockets.

   It doesn't require a formal conspiracy to do this.  But most landlords do belong to landlord associations, which provide them the venue for conspiring if they need to do so.

   The "market" does not work for rental housing for a number of reasons.  It needs to be controlled to protect poorer families.  Otherwise, they will be forced out of denser urban areas, and will have to commute longer and longer distances (which is not environmentally friendly at all).

patrick in BeijingOn Land-use policy is not a laughing matter posted 1 year, 10 months ago 24 Responses

Density plus

   Dear Jon and CanisCandida,

      I should explain a bit better.  Sorry for not being clear (at some point, I hope to get my far behind web site up, then I will publish pictures, alas I can't do so here).

      Most housing developments are fairly large (by American standards).  They consist of a number of tall buildings of various thickness (not huge blocks, usually a little larger than the skinny scrapers of Vancouver).  The buildings sit back from the street forty or fifty yards (varies) thus giving some open space along the street corridor and preventing the solid wall effect we see in cities like Hong Kong, Tokyo and New York.  Each building has open space around it (say 20 yards or so at the closest, and more otherwise) so that while they are tall, they don't feel quite so dense (again, no solid wall effect).  Ground and maybe second floor retail and amenities.

     There is also (so far as I know), no zoning that prohibits business and residential from sharing the same space.  I worked for a television production company that was on the same floor as several apartments (and recently did some recording in a small studio that was basically an apartment converted to office space.)  This helps reduce commuting.

     Many of the buildings contain underground housing which is cheaper and available for workers in the complex.  Fancy, no? (But remember that this is a developing country, and it is often better than workers get in other developing countries, most of them don't complain, the price is right!)  But not terrible, either (and often free with the job, or very very cheap).

     There are already too many cars (IMHO), but bikes still outnumber them (smile).  Many of the cars are quite small, and there are also lots of little motorized three wheelers which people take for short distances (which is more efficient than taking a taxi a short distance).  Plus, there are lots of bicycle delivery and manual carts (three wheel carts without engines), plus carts with engines, electric bikes, motorcycles, and mule drawn wagons are all in use.  The wider range of available services encourages efficiency.

     The government is also investing heavily in new subway lines.  Which are quite lovely, and cheap (they also reduced the price of bus tickets and subway tickets to encourage ridership, as near as I can tell, it mainly means my students set out more often!).

     Things are not always so close (though I can bike most places I need to go in less than 1 1/2 hours), but there are services very close by mostly (within walking distance).  And people do walk a lot.

     Interestingly, in the time I have been here, the government has changed its ideas about how to develop as it saw how things were working out.  I like cities, and feel that it is quite livable (except on bad air days), but some people don't like cities.

     And there are still many small open air markets where you can get goods and services cheaply (I got the $2 bicycle chain instead of the $1.6 the other day, I suspect my old one will be repaired and sold for 50 cents or so).

     The two cities I have seen with the most refreshing approaches to density are Vancouver and Beijing (IMHO).

patrick in BeijingOn Land-use policy is not a laughing matter posted 1 year, 10 months ago 24 Responses

How Change Happens

   There are two issues with the Green Party, one is that of ideology, the other is tactics.  We should not confuse them.

   In a landscape where the media speaks with one voice, there is little room for dissent except on the margins.  (Why doesn't GRIST close down and urge everyone to just write letters to their local newspapers instead, more mainstream, nyet?).

   The Green Party serves as an incubator for new ideas and critics of the current system.  Some of those ideas will eventually be adopted by one of the two frozen parties (defenders of the status quo), but only because they start to resonate among their supporters, and this only because someone is making noise about them.

   We need noise from a progressive point of view.  At the moment, the Green Party is the largest (albeit tiny) party on the left.  It is the natural home for people with a wide variety of issues.

   (It is especially ironic that critics of the Green Party often seem to wish for less democracy (ie, less issues) and more marching in lock step (pick a few issues, squash dissent and concentrate on them)).

   Many of the people who work in the Green Party would not go to one of the two main parties if there were no Green Party, they would do something else with their lives.

   Now tactically, I agree with some of the criticisms.  The Green Party needs to work on 1) local races 2) becoming the other party in one-party districts (those where the mainstream candidate faces no opposition from the so-called "other" mainstream party).

   The national races are mostly a waste of time, since the party can't get included in the debates.

   But, those who wish to work on them should do so.  What is needed is for others to go out and work on the local races.  It is encouraging that in a number of places people are doing just that.

   And what is of further interest, is that over the last ten years, it has become possible to run and be elected as a Green locally, without being laughed out of the room.  This is an important change.

   When people vote Green instead of Democratic (or Republican), it is a mistake to think that without a Green choice they would vote for candidates they consider useless.  More likely, they would stay home.

   I changed my registration to Green after the 1996 election.  I had just seen a headline about a Senate vote to fund Star Wars research (an unmitigated evil in my mind), the vote was 99-0.  No one voted against it.  It made me ill.  I was registering voters at a conference for poor women who were looking to enter the workforce.  I filled out my form to change my registration, and so did most of the other people working at the table.  We felt betrayed.

   When I look at the three leading Democratic Candidates, none of them are very good on the environment (corn ethanol), immigration (gutless appeasers of the racist nativists), Iraq (they all hem and haw too much, it is not clear what they would do), Iran (no clear statements), gay rights (hiding out and hoping not to talk about it), and many other issues I care about.

   I may decide to vote for one of them at last, but I may vote Green.

   They need to WIN my vote with positive proposals, not tell me that if I don't vote for them, it's my fault that all the bad things happen.

   Heck, I voted Democratic in 2006, and the war ended, right?  Mass transit was funded, right?  Kyoto was signed, right?  The safety net for the poor was repaired, right?  We have universal health care, right?  

   Global Warming could be sold to me as an overriding issue, if any of them were REALLY GOOD on the issue.  But they all talk as much about national energy security as anything else, and they ain't the same.

   So far, not a positive year in my view... Sigh..  

   But, it is interesting!!!

   In the meantime, GO GREENS!!!

patrick in Beijing On What is the Green Party up to, exactly? posted 1 year, 10 months ago 23 Responses

Density and Local Sprawl

  Jon,

     Most new housing developments here consist of a group of ten or so high rises clustered in a circle around an open area (mixture of park and playground) often with some street parking, and more underground.  The spaces between the buildings (in a compound) are usually grass and bushes.  Between the compound and the street there is usually a fairly large setback area which stays open (some of it may contain cars parking from time to time, but a lot of it is open with trees, lawn, benches, bushes, walks, kind of a mini-park).  

    The ground one to two levels of the outside building is usually retail (though frankly, it seems that some of the recent ones are having trouble attracting retail tenants, rents may be too high).  There will be restaurants, supermarkets, all sorts of stores and services.  So, even for people who drive, there are usually many services within walking distance.

    The style is very different from both Hong Kong and New York City.  The streets are generally wider with lots of open space around tall buildings.  It is dense, but not thick (smile).

    Are there issues and problems??  Affordability is certainly one.  

    Beijing will probably double in size in the next 20 years.  The planning is for a lot of that doubling to take place along mass transit corridors.  Also, for institutions like universities (a big chunk of Beijing), housing is provided for students, faculty and workers mostly within the campus or right next to it.  This works because the university offers subsidized housing at certain locations, which encourages people to live close to their co-workers (and usually the job).  So, even when they need to travel to classes, there are school buses which move people (some of my co-teachers own cars but would never think of driving to work when there is a free convenient bus).

    Which helps.  Again, the model is very different form other cities I have seen.

Dear Wiscidea,

    There is one problem with what you are saying.  Which is that sprawl is usually a regional issue, and needs regional planning and solutions.  Local governments mainly push it out past their own small city limits and claim to have done something.  Unfortunately what they have done is satisfied their own within the limits populace, while making the regional problem worse.

patrick in Beijing

    On Land-use policy is not a laughing matter posted 1 year, 10 months ago 24 Responses

It's not just subsidies

   It's the insatiable demand for fish from developed countries.  The oceans can't support it.
People need to eat less fish (wealthy people especially).

   Read the articles and notice that the demand continues despite rapidly rising prices.

patrick in BeijingOn There's a large human cost to subsidizing European fishing fleets in West Africa posted 1 year, 10 months ago 16 Responses

Great Ideas

   Let's add to the demand part of the cycle.  Give huge tax credits to people who live in small square footage spaces and dense urban areas.  

   (If you like penalties, penalize those who don't by limiting the tax deductibility of their mortgages, and add luxury taxes to their property tax rates (with the money going to help pay for the tax credits)).

   Imagine if people who lived in urban small square footage housing got say $10,000 a year each.  (Strict rent control would have to be in place, or another penalty system to keep greedy landlords from gobbling it all up from those who rent.)

   A lot of people might think very hard about how they want to live.

   Now add similar credits for those who don't own cars.

   Spend money to provide good schools.  Make neighborhoods safer (the credits would help with that!).  Look at different models of density.  In Beijing, people build up, but have open space around the buildings, so it is dense, but doesn't feel so dense.

   If the government really got serious about this, there are lots of creative answers to the problems.

patrick in BeijingOn Land-use policy is not a laughing matter posted 1 year, 10 months ago 24 Responses

Films

   Dear CanisCandida,

        When the railroad opened, there were lots of tv reports about how it was built so as not to disturb the antelopes.  The film tells the story from the 1990's, things have apparently improved quite a bit for the antelopes, but poaching remains a problem.  

        The film was mostly in Tibetan, so it ended up with Chinese subtitles.  It is mainly understandable even if you don't speak the language (smile), but I saw it several times, the last one had English subtitles!

        I don't know what kind of distribution deal they got in the West.  A lot of "art" films don't seem to make it outside of the country except to a film festival once in a while.  A lot only really have a market here at film festivals.  Fortunately, Beijing has a number of them!!!

        The Chinese government has been accused of limiting the number of Hollywood films allowed in to the country to protect the national film industry.  I don't know if this is true or not, but I say "right on"!!!

        My personal fairly recent favorite was the lovely "World Without Thieves".

patrick in BeijingOn Decision on whether to list polar bears as a threatened species is delayed posted 1 year, 10 months ago 10 Responses

Other Directions

   Dear John,

       Thanks for the support!!  You are correct that we need to think differently if we want to make progress.  

       Instead of carbon taxes, taxing things that produce grossly greater amounts of carbon (such as Humvees, SUVs and yachts) to the max would have more of an impact.  And be fairer.  

       We could also put luxury taxes on second homes as well as homes over a certain square footage.  Then we could provide tax credits for people who live in homes under a certain square footage, as well as providing tax credits for renters who live in core urban areas.

       This way, we encourage environmentally friendly behavior while punishing that which is really bad for the environment, without torturing the middle class.

Dan,

       You have a valid point.  In some ways it is better to ban things like mansions and humvees, but that seems to me to be even more impractical (I am in favor of it, however!!).

       One of the problems with the corrupt American system of government is that every politician chants like a mantra "Oh, we can't raise taxes".  Why the hell can't we raise taxes on the wealthy?

       "Oh, they wouldn't like it."  And what the ten percent cares matters so much more than what the ninety percent cares?  Ah, well.....

       Alas, the ten percent controls the media, and they ensure that only the properly framed topics and issues are raised.

       What is to be done?

patrick in BeijingOn A look at the framing behind the last climate policy proposal posted 1 year, 10 months ago 18 Responses

Other Solutions

   Dear CanisCandida,

       You may be correct that they are deluding themselves in order to get the income from trophy hunting.  But, please remember, there is a difference between those who get income from trophy hunting because they have few or even no, alternatives, and those who do so because of greed.

       One of the keys to protecting endangered species is to create economic conditions where they are more valuable alive than dead.

       If people who want them to live won't spend the money, then people who want them dead certainly will.

       Despite the "sin of flight", that is where eco-tourism can come in handy.

patrick in BeijingOn Decision on whether to list polar bears as a threatened species is delayed posted 1 year, 10 months ago 10 Responses

Great News

   Thanks for this post, and for all the work that all of you are doing!!!

   You bring hope to many troubled hearts.

patrick in BeijingOn Eban Goodstein invites you to join in the largest climate teach-in ever posted 1 year, 10 months ago 36 Responses

Workers

   Dear Mike,

       I am hopeful that progressive folks in the local/organic movements will work to ensure that concerns for farmworkers (both immigrant and native born) are included in their proposals.  (Everyone in such movements is not progressive, but a number of people are.)

       While much of the American agricultural temporary (seasonal) labor is composed of recent immigrants (or long term ones without papers), not all of it is.  I remember not that many years ago talking to some homeless young people who had signed on to go pick crops in Oregon.  They left full of optimism that this would be a good chance for them.

       Was it, or were they exploited and cheated?  Both are possible.  Unfortunately, we lack the kinds of programs that would protect agricultural workers rights in the US.  And I appreciate your concern, it is not a popular issue for the most part (never has been..).

       It seems to me that one of the current top priorities for labor in America must be establishing the rights of immigrant workers.  If there is truly a legal class of second class workers in this country, the labor movement is doomed.

      My old union was Local 1199.  Great days.

patrick in BeijingOn Stern says he underestimated climate risks posted 1 year, 10 months ago 28 Responses

Whose Questions?

  Dear Ce1907,

      I am sorry that those are not the only two questions.  They may be the top two for upper middle class Americans, but for many people they are not the exclusive questions.

      For people who need to feed their families, it is not about being noble, it is about survival.

      Can something that is seen as clearly unfair to working folk and the poor pass Congress? Maybe, maybe not.  But you start off with a weaker coalition if you start off with a bad bill.

      Does it matter?  Maybe I am irrelevant to you, but when I look at how poor the energy legislation passed this year was, it seems to me that we need to do better.  If you think you can do better by putting together a coalition of the rich and indifferent, go ahead.

      I think that one of the reasons that environmentalism has largely failed to be important to the vast majority of Americans has been that environmentalists have tried to make the issue narrow and technical rather than central to the lives of Americans.

      But maybe that's just me.

patrick in Beijing

      On A look at the framing behind the last climate policy proposal posted 1 year, 10 months ago 18 Responses

Giving Money Back

   
   Any proposal that plans to give money "back" to poor people has imbedded in it the false assumption that they had the money to pay the higher prices in the first place.

   Sigh.  Often they don't.  Promises to offset higher prices down the road are like promises to offset carbon emissions twenty years after the fact.

  They miss the point.

patrick in BeijingOn A look at the framing behind the last climate policy proposal posted 1 year, 10 months ago 18 Responses

One More Minor Point

   The AFL-CIO would be taken more seriously in terms of Chinese workers if its web site was even remotely up to date.  Jiang Zemin has not been President of China for over five years.

    More political posturing.

patrick in BeijingOn Stern says he underestimated climate risks posted 1 year, 10 months ago 28 Responses

Different Conditions

  Dear Mike,

      The difference between China and the US isn't only wages.  For instance, take waitresses.  They make between 600-800 yuan a month (some more, perhaps), a salary of less than to just over $100.  A US waitress makes, say $1200 a month (or more or less depending on conditions, but some make this little).  The Chinese waitress gets free housing (a bed in a dormitory with light and heat for free) and free food.  Her basic expenses are so low, she can save 500+ yuan a month to send to her family.  In America, the waitress, after taxes, rent and other costs has to borrow money each month just to survive (Monstersball, for whatever else you thought of it, had a rare semi-honest discussion of a waitress life).

     Differences include the cost of everything (smile), what is subsidized by the government (in China this includes rent (property ownership by the government can help keep costs down), electricity (cheap power helps everyone at the bottom), and food (cheap food means that low wages are bearable), in the US, subsidies mainly go to the rich, which means that for the poor, nothing is particularly bearable) (except education).

    So, it's not just a matter of direct wages, but what the costs associated with labor include.

    In terms of the skilled jobs, some have been outsourced, but there is a miracle of the system we ignore at our peril.

    While everyone is focusing on outsourcing (the story told to us by the ruling class), they ignore the role of monopolization.  Where once, there were hundreds of regional banks, there are now only a few massive national banks.  This has benefited the wealthy, but not the workers (nor the customers).

    In terms of manufacturing jobs, it is not just a matter of workers in other countries being willing to work for less (they want as much as they can get, duhh!!), it is a matter of government(s) in wealthy countries not requiring their corporations to meet reasonable labor and environmental standards.

    The customer is always right.  In this case, the customer demands cheap, cheap, cheap, workers and environment be damned.

     And damned they are, but not by their own desires, but by the indifference of their customers in developed-land.

patrick in BeijingOn Stern says he underestimated climate risks posted 1 year, 10 months ago 28 Responses

Sources...

    Speaking of which, here are couple.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2008-01/10/content_638 ...

    And,

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2008-01/10/content_638 ...

    The first one talks about China's move towards renewables.  I suspect the China Bashers will ignore it, but here is similar information from a Western perspective.

    Look at

    http://www.worldwatch.org/

    and

    http://www.worldwatch.org/node/5557

    plus

    http://www.worldwatch.org/node/5496

    The last one is a review of a book about China's move towards renewable energy.  I certainly don't expect people who have a bias against China to pay any attention, but for those who want to learn, these are not bad starts.

    The problem with the kind of sweeping China Bashing engaged in by folks like Tasermons Partner (though he/she is not the only one) is that in a time when China is rising as a world economic power (though it has a long ways to go, it's sheer size makes its influence felt even now), it is important for Americans to decide if they want to regard China as a friend and ally, or as an enemy.

    In making that decision, it is helpful to have lots of information, not merely grand sweeping declarations.

    The future is coming, we need education to be ready for it!!

patrick in BeijingOn Stern says he underestimated climate risks posted 1 year, 10 months ago 28 Responses

Clear

   Dear Tasermons Partner,

       I get it.  You clearly indicate once again that you dislike China.  So, your goal is to make sure other people dislike China?  Insult the government so that no one will work with it?

       FWIW, lots of governments, corporations and NGO's find that they can work with the Chinese government. You don't, fine, probably they couldn't work with you either!!  (LOL)

       You seem to me to be mainly interested in China bashing.  Why?

   Dear Greta,

       It is nice to believe that people always have such simple choices.  In America, perhaps they do.  In developing countries, it is not always so.  One of the things that most international environmental organizations have learned is that you can't just yell at people to "save the earth".  A hungry person will indeed eat the last buffalo or tiger or elephant.  You have to provide alternatives, and do so by working with people not yelling insults (which I am not accusing you of doing, see others in the thread).

       Making the kinds of moral choices you talk about (and I have done so as well) is a luxury.  We can do so because we have options.  Poor people often either have no such options, or are not aware of them.

       Do people trade some bad health for money in their pockets to feed their families and educate their children?  Yes!!  In most of the world, people have been doing this throughout history.  And will continue to do so if they have no better choices.

       Wealthy countries need to make sure that their actions provide choices.  If that happens, then their will be pressure on the rest to provide better choices as well.  

       In stead of say "as long as there are people willing to work in ....", you might consider this idea, "as long as there are people who don't care how the workers who produce their goods are treated.....".  

       The power belongs to those with the wealth, not those without.  If Americans get serious about the sources of their products (and are willing to put their money where their mouths are, ie, pay prices that support fair treatment of workers and sustainable development), things will change.

       Blaming workers in developing countries for needing to feed their families is like blaming undocumented workers in America for being exploited.  It's not they who have the power to change things, that lies in our hands.

patrick in BeijingOn Stern says he underestimated climate risks posted 1 year, 10 months ago 28 Responses

Jia Yo!

  (Chinese for go on, a common cheer at athletic events, expect to hear it a lot this year!)

  Actually, I am not sure most people can walk and chew gum at the same time (due to extensive dental work, I won't even try!!).  It is difficult explaining how people could actually elect George Bush the second time (assuming he stole the election the first time, but won a heck of a lot more votes the second time).  I am not convinced that even if there was work place democracy it would automatically lead to better judgment (and not be subject to manipulation).  The failure of the Developed world "democracies" to address global warming with any degree of seriousness speaks poorly for it.

  But go ahead, throw it into the mix once in a while.  I feel about it like I feel about the "free market", the "level playing field", the "classless society" and various other social myths.  They all sound pretty in theory, but in fact, none of them actually exist (my cynical old age speaking).

  New subway systems, better buses, those I can see and feel. (and use!!).  

  I don't see much chance of progress in the US during the 2008 election season anyway.  The rest of the world will have to chug along without American participation...

patrick in BeijingOn Can economic democracy make the global economy more sustainable? posted 1 year, 10 months ago 32 Responses

Status

   I do think it is not true that everyone defines themselves solely by what their neighbor has (or does not have).  

   Perhaps we need to look around the world and see how people in various cultures define themselves.  

   It seems to me that the idea that we all compete in the way BioD describes is overly simplistic.  A lot of people don't (and don't care to).  It's just that their voices are out of the media limelight.

   My two fen.

patrick in BeijingOn We can consume less without sacrificing well-being posted 1 year, 10 months ago 12 Responses

A Simple Problem

   If you make so-called "workplace democracy" a pre-requisite for a sustainable future, you are basically advocating doing nothing.

   Here's why.

   Changing from the various forms of corporate ownership and governance to a your utopian vision won't just happen overnight.  There will be resistance.  It won't always work.  Governments and current corporate owners may have problems.  And all the while that this fight is being fought (and it may not be won, remember, people have advocated this in the past and gotten nowhere (ie, they lost)), global warming won't be addressed.

   So, it's a bad idea because it ends up being an excuse for doing nothing (well, no work place democracy? I may as well buy an SUV!).

   Unless you have a plan for how to get there quickly, it won't happen.

   And frankly, where is the broad based workers movement for "work place democracy"?  I don't any evidence that most people care (and some may be outright opposed, it is not a perfect solution for all problems).

   All of this is only in the US.  In terms of other countries, how will you impose this solution, at gun point (or nuclear weapon point)?  How do you get there without sounding like another imperialist (no, Jon, I am not accusing you of being an imperialist).

   If we can't impose Democracy on Iraq, how will we impose it in millions of factories worldwide?

   BTW, the same applies to a universal "tax", who will measure and collect it?  The US Marines??  At gunpoint??

   (One might consider Italy, where tax avoidance is a national pastime).

   Nice dreams, but it is getting warm in here...

patrick in BeijingOn Can economic democracy make the global economy more sustainable? posted 1 year, 10 months ago 32 Responses

Insecurity

    At the moment, the economy looks like it is headed in a mildly negative direction.  Most of the current polls show that concerns about the economy are number one, followed by concerns about the war in Iraq.  The environment and global warming are much further down the list.

    It is a pleasant fantasy to think that this will change, but unlikely.

    If gas prices go up, people won't look toward cheaper vehicles and better CAFE standards, they will look towards more agressive exploration and foreign policy.

    (I saw one poll which suggested Americans were concerned about global warming, but were not willing to pay more for gas to do something about it.)

    The Republicans are most likely to use gay marriage and immigrant bashing to play on their core groups fears of change.  Xenophobia seems to be a big seller.  Can it solidify the so-called red states, and flip a couple of purple ones?  I suspect we will find out.

    It is not clear right now what the conflicting economic proposals put forth by each party will be, they are below the radar screen in the early going, but they may be the deciding factors in the fall election.

    Still and all, the economy generally favors the Democrats (any) and the war does as well (any).  It should be their year if they don't screw up.  Look at the total turnout in Iowa.

patrick in BeijingOn Will climate wash out as an issue or help the greener candidate? posted 1 year, 10 months ago 12 Responses

Predictions

    Earlier I had predicted Hillary would get the nomination and win the election (I am too far away, it looked like nostalgia would triumph from here, and I haven't seen Obama speak).

    Now I am not sure, the media seems to have anointed Obama as the nominee.  From my seat, he and Clinton are almost identical on the issues.  Both seem to be center right Democrats with different spins.  "Experience" vs "Change" is not an issues based election, and we are worse off if that becomes the message and choice.

    I have never been a Clinton fan (though I voted for one twice, reluctantly).  Obama talks too much of unity for me (unity about what?  on what issues?), another meaningless slogan.

    Of the three, I am inclined to vote for Edwards, because he has talked so much about poverty, the only candidate to do so (Dennis lost it a while back, he is naderizing himself (self-caricaturing)).

    None of the big three are very good on the environment or immigration (american politicians are such snivelling little cowards when faced with racism and xenophobia). If anyone can make a case otherwise, I would love to see it.

    But they are marginally better than the Rethugs (except McCain).  

    Progressive????  It seems to be a meaningless term in America.

    Golly, I hope I'm wrong!

patrick in Beijing

    On The candidacy is Obama's to lose posted 1 year, 10 months ago 32 Responses

Microscopic

   Dear Tasermons Partner,

        Here is a link about Chinese renewables.

http://www.renewableenergyweekly.com/rea/news/story;jsess ...

and another

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2005-11/08/conte ...

        Notice that there is not much solar in the mix, if you track through the information.  China actually produces a lot of solar cells, but for export, why?  Price.

        From the China Daily Article "Currently, investors enjoy a 50 per cent tax break when investing in solar, wind and renewable energy. The national value-added tax rate is 17 per cent.

"We are consulting with the ministry of finance to further reduce the tax burden when they invest in renewable business," he said.

China has made two commitments at last year's international conference on renewable energy held in Bonn, Germany. One is to make a law regulating renewable utilization and the other is to map out a national blueprint.

But he complained that developing countries sometimes fell into an unfavourable position when accepting assistance from developed countries.

"Sometimes, we have been forced to buy equipment from developed countries when accepting their loan, grant or technical aid," Zhang said. "The expensive equipment will add to our cost."

Take wind power, for example, in which one kilowatt/hour will cost 0.8 yuan (US$10 cents), while the equal amount of coal electricity just costs about one-third of that. "

        You say "It would be no great deal for China to extend those subsidies to other sources like wind and solar, or for China to sponsor such projects on a larger scale."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/china/story/0,7369,1636632,00.h ...

        From the guardian article. "The country aims to produce 20 gigawatts of electricity from wind power by 2020."

        Is this enough?  Probably not, but hardly "microscopic".  What can Americans do?  Sit one the sidelines and complain (current tactic) or put up some money to help the process go faster and farther.

         I can assure you that if the US wanted to invest $100 billion a year globally to help increase the renewable energy percentages in developing nations, no one would say "no"!!

        Developing.  You need to understand the difference between a developing and a developed country.  Not just in terms of China, but in terms of other developing countries (or is is just China  you don't like?  not clear....).

        What seems like insignificant sums of money to Americans can seem like huge sums of money in other countries.  Money, which seems like "no great deal" to you, IS in fact, a great deal.

         You might consider reading the discussions about the new post Kyoto treaty, and what the concerns of the developing world are.  It's not just China, it's also India  and the rest (China and India as the largest tend to be paid the most attention to, but notice that most of the other developing nations are standing together with them on the same page, there is a reason for this.)

         It is possible to criticize the source of the renewables (hydropower, for example), just as it is possible to criticize the source of American renewables (earth killing biofuels).

         There is lots of room for discussion, but it is helpful if it is factually based and lacks blanket statements of ill-will towards others.  (I do try to avoid the same, and have apologized when I fail....).

         And it is fair to note that currently China runs about 7% renewable energy as compared to 6% in the US.

         We have entered a difficult period for the globe, and in my opinion, need to work together to help each other reach and surpass our goals.

         I encourage people to learn more about the environmental problems in China and the rest of the developing world.  Such knowledge will be helpful in learning to work together towards a common sustainable future.

patrick in Beijing

         On More evidence that we're exporting massive carbon emissions posted 1 year, 10 months ago 12 Responses

Misunderstandings

   Dear Tasermons Partner,

        The anti-science movement is in the US.  Students every year in China find that their classes are full of articles about the environment.  The TV news shows information all the time, many people have a better understanding than most folks in the US seem to.  I am trying to get you to notice that you are operating on "assumptions" about China that may not be true.

        The reasons they don't just "invest more" are complicated, but the simplest one is that they don't always have more.  The Chinese GNP is 1/33rd that of the US.  That means a whole lot less money not only for individuals, but for government as well.

        (Americans are so rich, that many of us think that everyone can just "buy anything", but the poor can't buy their way out of problems.)

         And China is spending a lot of money on renewables.  But the peak population (which seems close from a demographers viewpoint) needs to be planned for.  And with roughly 900 million people living in the countryside, it will take a lot of money to end poverty.

         Where renewables cost more and/or require technology they don't have, people will use what the do have.  And in China (and other developing countries) that is often coal.

         It's not because of corruption, it's because of poverty.

         The Chinese DO care about the environment, but they are poor and need the money.  If AMERICANS cared more about the environment, they would tell their companies to set good examples, instead of raping the world.  

         You say "It's deplorable on our part to take advantage of the situation".

         That is ultimately what I am trying to get you to see.  OUR government (remember I am American too) allows corporations to run rampant.  In a democracy, WE are responsible for what OUR government does.  That means ME and YOU.  America needs to change "OUR PART" in order for change to happen.

patrick in Beijing

         On More evidence that we're exporting massive carbon emissions posted 1 year, 10 months ago 12 Responses

Why

   Dear CanisCandida,

       I had actually responded to this a while back, but when I pressed the post button, the internet ate the whole thing.  I took it as a sign from the furies and slunk away.

       You ask "Why in the world does equitable distribution of wealth require economic growth?"  

       The simple answer to this is that much of the developed world doesn't believe in an equitable distribution of wealth.  (Okay, almost all in the case of America).  Mention the term, and people call you a marxist and begin to burn crosses on your shoes while trying to drive splinters into your shirt buttons.

        Of course it doesn't.

        Then you asked "Are we seriously supposed to believe that the sense of the common good, or of basic compassion, will not kick in unless and until economic growth is first humming along nicely?"

        Actually, the poor are much more generous than the rich (per capita).  But their share of the pie is so small (think crumbs), that they don't make much difference.

        And it's not all about charity.  Most people want a chance to do something meaningful with their lives, and work is part of that.

        The real problem is that the West (and the US especially) got hooked on two very bad ideas (he who dies with the most toys wins) (and) (never give a sucker an even break).  One of these is related to individualism (the virtue of selfishness) and the other is related to measuring status on the basis of accumulations.

        Look at how many tv shows are about the joys of wealth in the US.  All of the reality shows have people debasing themselves and others for a chance at money.  Life Styles of the Rich and Famous.

        There is a huge propaganda machine that pukes this kind of nonsense out to society.  And it is killing us.

        But for people at the lower end, wealth means access to food, medical care, shelter, a comfortable life style (which is not always luxurious).  They need to get there first, and it will require economic growth for them to do so.

        In the meantime, if Americans have souls (questionable, even if you believe in them), some serious searching might be called for.

        I do write (and take photographs), but at this time, don't publish (okay a couple of short stories and poems locally).  Thanks for thinking kindly of my poor words!!!

Happy Every Day (Chinglish best wishes)

patrick in Beijing
       On Notable quotable posted 1 year, 11 months ago 5 Responses

The Web

  Thanks BioD and CanisCandida, the information is interesting and well presented.

  Let me toss in a couple of web sites that I give to my students (ever hopeful that they will reach out beyond class assignments... (grin)).

   http://www.librivox.org/

   and

   http://www.etext.org/index.shtml

   Librivox is a collection of people who have volunteered their time to read classic (royalty free, no copyright infringement possible) material and post it on line for others to share.  What a wonderful web site!!!  (There is also the Alexandrian project, but Librivox is my favorite right now). Note, typing as i did, i get the site without the www, but however you get there!

   And Etext is one of several (Project Gutenberg is another) that aims to put written texts online.  These are all texts from the public domain, available for free.

   It is easy in this modern age to forget how little of our rich trove of human culture is accessible to us online, these folks and the others like them who are working to change this are my heroes.

   patrick in Beijing
On The ear as an underutilized data input port posted 1 year, 11 months ago 7 Responses

An Oops.

   Dear BioD,

       The style you employed in your attack has left you open to charges of racism.  So, instead of talking about the issues you raised, you end up talking about racism.  While I personally think this is a useful subject to discuss, I don't think it was your intent in starting this thread.

        Language matters.

        About corruption India vs the US.  The US is perhaps the most corrupt nation on earth, but we cheat.  Our definition of corruption excludes the ways in which we mostly practice corruption.

        Our lobbying and campaign contribution system is nothing but corruption codified into law.  And allowing corporations to have the rights of citizens without the responsibilities is in itself a form of corruption.

        Americans always recite the mantra that developing nations are corrupt, and developed nations are not.  LOL.  Yes, but that is only when Americans get to define corruption.

        OTH, biofuels are evil, except on a local level in rural areas.  As a large industry, they are like adding fuel to the engine of a train heading for a cliff.  Gee, look, it goes faster!!

patrick in BeijingOn Keeping power broker's hands out of the cookie jar posted 1 year, 11 months ago 57 Responses

Numbers

   Dear John,

        Interestingly, the actual things you advocate, I agree with.  Which I have said before, so we have some areas of agreement.

        A couple of points, we disagree about Al, but anyone who talks favorably about Malthus or Hardin should expect criticism.  Again, go talk to people engaged in working on population issues and suggest using quotes from them.  You won't get very far.

        Why does it matter?  Many people working on this issue are relatively rich white guys (Hardin had four kids) who are talking to poor people of color.  If anyone thinks you are doing this because you look down on them, or because you want less poor people of color in the world, then they would probably be inclined to have more kids!!

        It is not enough to have good intentions, sensitivity and cultural awareness also count.  Perhaps that is why I suggest most Americans work harder on our own upper classes, we speak the same class and cultural languages.

        I suggest that Americans do two things, 1) fund people in their own countries who are working on health, poverty etc., but without trying to tell them what or how to do it (which includes dumping the murderous restrictions on birth control).  2) work on similar issues in America especially among the well off (but fight for abortion rights, for example, in much of the country there are no de facto rights, and barely de jure rights).

        And finally, Americans need to work on consumption.  

        But, step away from per capita for a moment.  All consumption should not be charged to individuals.  The military is a huge source of consumption in the US, and reducing its size while requiring it to be more environmentally friendly is important.  Corporations count too, as do universities, churches and all other organizations.  Is your local government green?  How about the local schools?  Local industry?  What are the barriers that keep them from going green (don't just criticize, find the problems and  help them solve them).

        To switch to IQ, LOL to Nucbuddy.  I personally have no idea what my IQ is, nor do I care.  A separate thread, if you can get one to start it (smile).

Happy New Year!!!

patrick in BeijingOn Is it only OK to talk about limiting population after it's too late? posted 1 year, 11 months ago 117 Responses

Taking Bets

  Yah, the air was nasty yesterday.  Today it is raining (may turn into snow) and the air is beautifully clean!!!  One reason the air gets nasty sometimes is that we get fog.  Fog plus car exhaust is smog, yechh.  (I always laugh when I read about fog in NYC and people say, oh, but it's okay, NOT!!  All big cities that have lots of cars never have very clean fog, when I lived in SF, if you left clothes outside, they came in with black streaks on them.)

   Since we know what causes the bad air, the government has two plans, one long term (for those of us who live here) and one short term for the Olympics.  They can order government employees to not drive during the Olympics.  (Think about national capitals, LOTS of government employees.)  They can ask other people not to drive, they can implement whatever regulations are needed.

   So, it should generally be expected that the main sources of air pollution can be controlled during the Olympics.

    Longer term, one of the new subway lines just opened, it is a beauty!!  And at least two more will be done by the Olympics, with a whole bunch in the years to follow.

    Plus, higher standards for auto emissions, and plans to build hybrids along with serious looks at hydrogen cars (I know, I know, but it's not my issue, just telling you), and long term renewable power.

    The worst days always come in the winter, a lot of the poor still use coal for heat.  It will take time to change that.  And the outdoor kebab vendors can put out a lot of smoke!!!  Some of them are outdoors in front of restaurants, and are not tiny little one man operations.  (speaking as a non meat eater.)

     The government will do everything to ensure that people feel safe.  I eat quite well, thank  you (smile, looking at belly, frowning).  How's the e-coli beef in America??

patrick in BeijingOn It's almost 2008, and Beijing's air is still polluted posted 1 year, 11 months ago 2 Responses

MisDirected Anger

   Dear JennyP,

        I am an English teacher.  The only person who's job I might be taking would be a Chinese person (or another foreigner) who would be teaching in my place.

        Your anger is clear, but misplaced.

        You blame immigrants for the loss of jobs.  Undocumented immigration in America runs to around 10-12 million people.  But that is in a nation of almost 300 million people.  Do the math.  It's no more than 3-4 percent of the population.

        The biggest loss of American jobs comes from two places, mergers and jobs moving overseas.  Neither of these has anything to do with immigration.  

        As to who sucks up to big business, they are always delighted to see people blame immigrants and ignore mergers as well as the growing monopolization of America.

        Look around you.  Wal-mart which is non-union, low wage paying, has costs thousands and thousands of good union jobs in other supermarkets.  This is not an immigration issue.

        Where there used to be twenty banks, there are three or four.  All of those mergers costs hundreds of thousands of jobs.  Not an immigration issue.  (Banks also did the nasty when they turned teller jobs into "part-time" to avoid paying benefits.)  

         The shortage in affordable housing starts with Reagan who took the US government out of the business of building any.  Companies say they can't afford to build it.  Many people don't want low income housing near them (how about you?).  Local governments who pay attention only to the middle class don't do much about it.

         When was the last time you asked  your local government to get off its duff and solve the problem and then asked your congressperson to get the money?  Nope, better to sit around and complain about the relatively small (in terms of the size of the economy) number of poor people working as undocumented workers.

         BTW, you might look at improving your reading skills.  I said that undocumented workers were powerless in THIS country, not their home countries.  As to racism, ROFLMAO... the entire anti-immigrant movement is awash in it!!!

         You claim to be concerned about education in your community, go out and work together to get more money for it!! THAT's the answer.  Tax the corporations, tax the rich, tax the upper middle classes.  

         Instead, you are blaming the poor (undocumented) for being poor.  The people who have the power to solve the problem are the rich.

         I must admit, that I love  your anti-left rhetoric, totally out of touch with reality.  The right always cuts taxes for the rich (hmmm, maybe what you really want?) and never does anything for the poor.  Where poor people have made progress is when they have organized themselves and fought (and it hasn't been as rightists!) for a better life.  You might try studying some history.  BTW, I wish Grist were awash in leftists!!! LOL!!!  sigh...

         As to what keeps poor black and brown Americans out of jobs, it isn't undocumented workers, it's racism on the part of those who hire.

         Just curious, who are you supporting for President??

patrick in Beijing

        On Let the nativists try eating their words posted 1 year, 11 months ago 9 Responses

Wow!!!

    Great post, Tom!!  And typical misinformed responses.

    To JCalvinH, undocumented workers are not "willing" to live in terrible conditions, they have no power to change their situation.  Instead of scapegoating them, you might advocate that all farm workers be treated decently (which could best be done by the Federal government building housing and providing benefits, rather than attacking individual farmers (we could tax factory farms to support it!!) and could be done regardless of documentation status).

    To RyCarsonWhat would higher prices to do poor people in America?  Recent reports suggest that as many as 35-38 million Americans go hungry part of the time.  You want to increase that number??  Terrible!!

    To JennyP, you are distorting what happens in America.  If schools are underfunded, it is because wealthy Americans don't want to spend the money to fund them.  If you removed all the children of undocumented workers, presto, the schools would receive less money (since most get funds based on per-pupil attendance).  Improving the schools requires increasing per capita spending.  And blaming poverty on the poor is silly.  Want to raise wages??  Okay, raise the minimum wage.  For everyone.  Presto, done.

     Want more housing?  Build it.  The US can afford it, if it cares.    

     But imagine if the undocumented weren't here, the middle class would have to look for another scapegoat!!!  How terrible!!

     Sad indeed that America has gone backwards towards 19th century style nativism and xenophobia.  The 19th century is over folks.  People need to get real.

     And what will you do when 150 million or so refugees from your global warming show up at the door?

patrick in BeijingOn Let the nativists try eating their words posted 1 year, 11 months ago 9 Responses

Consumption

  Dear John,

       You say "e having refuted your assertion about consumption: The equation I mentioned (total consumption = population size x per capita consumption), when you think about its implications, is essentially enough to refute it. It would add considerably to this comment to spell out all those implications and to provide related research evidence, etc. So I may be leaving you with a tiny bit of wiggle room based on the argument that "if we just lowered per capita consumption enough...""

       When I think about it's implications, I must agree with you???  That's it??  That's your argument??

       Alas and au contraire, when I think about it's implications I believe even stronger in my statements that Americans (mostly) aren't ready to deal with the issue of consumption.

       It's not how many people there are (solely), it's how they live that matters.  Population will solve itself in the next 50 years or so when it peaks and heads down.  Consumption needs a lot of help.  

       Here's the deal, the Bangladeshi peasant who has seven children is casting a lighter ecological footprint than the upper middle class American who has one.

       That's why population isn't a numbers game.

       As far as the concept of "carrying capacity", it is generally flawed and full of all sorts of holes (as usually discussed).  It seems to me that people who insist on it, should realize  American alone has overshot their definition, and that makes me wonder, are you calling for the death of all Americans (at least the upper 30% or so of income levels, those who do all the damage).

       Blaming  a poor person for the damage done to the environment by the wealthy is useless.  You could eliminate the 1 billion poorest people on earth and not make very much difference to the problem.

       And it's not really per capita consumption.  It is the consumption by  the better off.  Who wants to be averaged with Bill Gates, after all?

       Or General Motors?  Or the Pentagon?

patrick in BeijingOn Is it only OK to talk about limiting population after it's too late? posted 1 year, 11 months ago 117 Responses

Refutations, population and consumption

   Many years ago I belonged to the Boys Club (now the Boys and Girls Club).  I played in a chess tournament once, and advanced to the finals.  The prize was a box of candy bars.  The boy playing me, made a move, and said "gotcha, checkmate in four moves, see?"  While I was still trying to figure it out, he and the candy bars departed.  After half an hour or so, I realized that he was wrong, and it also dawned on me that he knew it too!!  

   So, John, claiming that you have refuted the idea that population matters more than consumption is cute (did you ever play chess in boys clubs), but is erroneous unless you actually DO so.

   And you haven't.  Asserting something is not the same as proof.

   Does population matter?  Yes, and oddly enough, I don't disagree with your detailed solutions (those that involve more money being spent on poverty, health (including reproductive health) and welfare).

   But, if you're going to march in that parade, you need to know the best slogans and pay attention to who is linking their arms with yours.

   Consumption, though is still the elephant in the room.  Americans love to talk about the evils of developing nations, population, technology, anything so we can avoid the issue of a consumptive society.

    And a consumptive society isn't completely about individuals (Americans need to get over this), it is largely about organizations (government, military, business, labor, religious, educational, and even NGOS).

    With American population relatively under control (except for that due to immigration, and we know where that is leading), it makes sense that Americans would want to talk about population rather than consumption, and this also applies to the English (who's reputation for racism towards immigrants is ....).  

     If we are going to save the Earth (not clear), we do need to talk about the tough issues, and population isn't the one.

patrick in BeijingOn Is it only OK to talk about limiting population after it's too late? posted 1 year, 11 months ago 117 Responses

Dispelling Ghosts

   Dear other folks,

       Those of you who say we should dispel the ghosts of racism past (and do what about the ghosts of racism present and future.... aw come on, look at the calender (grin)), exactly how would you go about that in a way which provides credibility to the issue?  Merely stating that it needs to be done gets us nowhere.

    Dear John,

       You say that "A zen approach of addressing it by not addressing it is not as good as being forthright and getting past the concerns of racism through intellectual honesty."

       Okay, I'll bite!!!  How and what kind of intellectual honest will get us past the concers of racism.  All I am hearing is that it doesn't seem to be a major concern, we should acknowledge and move on.  

       Acknowledge what?  Move on where?  Who decides when it has been sufficiently addressed?  You?  Me?

       So, address it!!

patrick in Beijing

       On Is it only OK to talk about limiting population after it's too late? posted 1 year, 11 months ago 117 Responses

More than rogue

   Dear CanisCandida,

       I wish there were more than what I call "rogue" elements (smile).  But I fear that the Catholic church has largely purged itself of any serious liberal wing.  As have many of the larger American Protestant churches.

       What the right doesn't seem to realize is that if they drive the left away, people don't all become rightists, they become disengaged, and then weaken institutions.  Most of the Western religions are weakened by the continual assault of the fundamentalists.  As a non believer, I am not so concerned, but the churches should be.

       Look at the Spanish government, thirty years ago, who'd thunk it?

patrick in BeijingOn Is it only OK to talk about limiting population after it's too late? posted 1 year, 11 months ago 117 Responses

First, Malthus

   Dear John,

       It is hard to be nice to someone who writes "That the principal and most permanent cause of poverty has little or no direct relation to forms of government, or the unequal division of property; and that, as the rich do not in reality possess the power of finding employment and maintenance for the poor, the poor cannot, in the nature of things, possess the right to demand them; are important truths flowing from the principle of population, which, when, properly explained, would by no means be above the most ordinary comprehensions. And it is evident that every man in the lower classes of society, who became acquainted with these truths, would be disposed to bear the distresses in which he might be involved with more patience; would feel less discontent and irritation at the government and the higher classes of society, on account of his poverty; would be on all occasions less disposed to insubordination and turbulence; and if he received assistance, either from any public institution or from the hand of private charity, he would receive it with more thankfulness, and more justly appreciate its value."

http://www.econlib.org/library/Malthus/malPlong39.html#Bk ...

more links.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1O88-MalthusThomasRobert. ...

http://www.toolan.com/hitler/surplus.html

As to your conference, I will read the paper when I get a chance.  It would have more credibility with me if it didn't list numerous of the American anti-immigration groups among its presenters.  They pretend to be concerned about population, but lack total credibility on the matter.

Claiming that current measures are failing disagrees with the UN and other agencies, which see current measures as succeeding.

But, that aside, what SPECIFICALLY do you propose??  If it is devoting more money to health and education, I am for it.  If you have other proposals, bring them out!

BTW, that was one of the least inflammatory Malthus quotes I could find.  His writing about non-white folks is disgusting.

patrick in BeijingOn Is it only OK to talk about limiting population after it's too late? posted 1 year, 11 months ago 117 Responses

Clarity

    Dear CanisCandida,

         A lot of them hear "We white people don't want there to be more non-white people in the world, it is our world to use and enjoy, and we don't want to share it with non-whites (whom we consider to be inferior)."  The women hear blame and arrogance (there is a slang term for Americans which means "they who are always right, and never listen", (I am told several languages contain such)), rather than ways to help them have better lives.

         Is this true?  Sometimes, sometimes not. (I am a white male, FWIW, (LOL)).  The history of the population movement growing out of eugenics makes this argument.  Read Malthus.  He was a nasty narrow minded man.

         In years of arguing about population and immigration, often people start talking about "cultural preservation" which is to my mind, a clue word.  

         Right now, American society is deep in the spasms of a nasty racially tinged nativist xenophobic anti-immigrant surge.  Combine that with talk about how the developing countries need to limit population, and hmmmm, what do you think many people hear?

         I am delighted that there are still rogue elements of the Catholic Church that defy the Pope on issues like birth control (and gay rights!!).  Of course, I see the schism in the Anglican Church in terms similar to yours (though being an non-believer, I mostly wish the churches would mind their spiritual business and leave my daily life alone!).

         We get missionaries here preaching the most reactionary retrograde kinds of Christianity, the irony being that they tend to be self canceling as each one arrives and proclaims that their church and their church alone has the truth.  I do wish they would keep their misogyny and homophobia to themselves.

          Their numbers are probably less then they pronounce to the rest of the world.  Many young people seem to join for a time, then drift away.  But are probably still counted as "saved".

          I am especially saddened at the millions of deaths from AIDS that are caused by the mis-behavior of churches in condemning condom use and sex education.  

          But, bah, humbug to me.  As an American teacher, I have to go out and buy tons of candy to hand out, and teach many people to sing "Jingle Bells" and "We wish you a Merry Christmas" once again!!  Happy Solstice to you and your family!

patrick in BeijingOn Is it only OK to talk about limiting population after it's too late? posted 1 year, 11 months ago 117 Responses

Population Issues Elsewhere

   There is actually a movement of people working on population issues, mostly through the United Nations.  Alas, Americans don't know much about it, because the religious right prohibits the distribution of birth control information, and the US is in the grip of religious right mania.

   The US could set an example by allowing sex education that included information on birth control, AIDS education that included the same.

   We could also pass the ERA (a long cherished dream from my youth) thereby setting a good example.

   But there is an ugly old problem when Americans want to go worldwide.  Randy Cunningham alluded to it when he talked about facing the demons of the past.  Given American history, how can a bunch of mostly white environmentalists (and mostly, though not all, male) ever talk to non-white people in developing countries about limiting their children, without addressing the issue of racism?

    I know you don't like the word, but it is there.  On this issue, it is the elephant in the room.  One of the reason that people who work on population issues steer clear of environmentalists is that the "mainstream" environmental movement in the US is largely white tending towards upper middle class.

    Not exactly the folks best suited to discuss sensitive issues like reproduction with poor peasants in any country.  (No offense intended, but if you take offense, you should ask yourself why.)

     Folks interested in population control work on health issues, poverty issues and supporting the empowerment of women.  None of these are issues that the mainstream environmental community has had much to do with.

     The key to the UN report is that population will peak in a couple of generations, and precisely because of the work on the issues I mentioned.                                                                                                                                                                                          

      Rejoice!

patrick in BeijingOn Is it only OK to talk about limiting population after it's too late? posted 1 year, 11 months ago 117 Responses

Numbers

   The thing about China (and India to follow) is that the country is roughly (okay, very roughly) five times the size of the US.  So, it's raw numbers on anything will be the biggest.  But this is a meaningless comparison, what matters are per capita figures.

    And before you go all ballistic on me and insist "it doesn't matter, China has to do something!!", it IS doing something.

    Read the Grist posts about China's CAFE standards, and it's investments in renewables.

    Is it doing enough??  Probably not, but look around and find a developing country that is doing more.  Find developed countries that are doing more.  

    Criticizing China (or any developing country) is a waste of time, what we need to do is help.

    We can stand and watch (while loudly criticizing) the man trying to push his cart out of the mud, or we can roll up our pants, climb in and help push.

patrick in BeijingOn China and the U.S. are both obliged to act on climate change, quick-like posted 1 year, 11 months ago 7 Responses

Panearth

   Dear Mr. Salmony,

     I looked at the Panearth web site, and all it offered was more of the same stuff suggesting that animals will procreate more if they have a large available food supply.

     It is true, we are animals.

     There is no evidence that we procreate to use up available food supply.  Look at the world, the rich nations have effectively unlimited food supplies, but do not have matching birth rates.  This argument fails the duck test.  It ain't got no quack.

     The one-child per family things sounds good, many people already do it, without the benefit of scientific studies!!  

     But as a campaign, it is a waste of time (IMHO), by the time it could take effect, the world population will have already peaked!!

     Consumption, consumption.  It ain't how many people there are, it's how they live!

patrick in BeijingOn Is it only OK to talk about limiting population after it's too late? posted 1 year, 11 months ago 117 Responses

And A link

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/12/17/europe/food.php

    Ethanol will kill the poor.

patrick in BeijingOn Notable quotable posted 1 year, 11 months ago 5 Responses

Bravo!!!

   Congrats to Congressman Bartlett!!  I will tell my parents that a Republican has said something I agree with!!

    Shame on those in both parties who have sold us out for their pockets full of gold (campaign gold that is!).

patrick in BeijingOn Notable quotable posted 1 year, 11 months ago 5 Responses

You Guys Need to Get Out More (grin)

   Kyoto has had only mixed success largely because everyone wouldn't go along.  To address GLOBAL warming as a global issue will take something approaching consensus.  If the compromises made to get the US to stop dragging its feet even a little seem terrible to you, imagine the alternative.

   No agreement in Bali would mean that all of the negotiations collapsed in dissary, that there would be no world consensus about global warming, that every nation and/or bloc of nations would go their own way, while blaming each other.

   In short, that probably even less would be done, and the coming crisis would be worse.

   The victory in getting Bush to sign on, even to this, required some mighty lifting on the part of many of the world's peoples.

   We should be thankful and appreciate it, without in any way diminishing the size of the remaining tasks.

   NOW there is still a chance, and hope.

   Without the agreement?????

patrick in Beijing

   On Countries strike climate deal in Bali posted 1 year, 11 months ago 20 Responses

I wasn't being sarcastic??

   Yeah I got it....

   Did you think my matrix idea was a serious response???

patrick in BeijingOn Cato's Jerry Taylor responds to Michael Tobis posted 1 year, 11 months ago 131 Responses

Rejoice!

    It is certainly true that what comes out of Bali is not all we wanted or needed.

    But, the US reluctantly agreed to go on with the negotiations about emissions and to support the general concept of technology transfers to developing countries.

    True, the devil is in the details, but we have two years of tough negotiations ahead to tie the devil down (and his American representative won't be in charge much longer (grin)).

    This is a major breakthrough in that the US is agreeing to do anything!!!  So be happy!!!

    Someone should be asking why people like Glen Beck get so much air time.  Does CNN want to promote his ideas?

    Here in Beijing, we heard from the Dutch ("the vibe in the room was so incredible"), the Germans (more nice words), and Chinese Greenpeace on the evening news.  Everyone was positive that something came out of Bali at all (which suggests how close perhaps it was to producing nothing), and agreeing that the work is just beginning.

    So, we need to roll up our sleeves and get to                           it.

patrick in BeijingOn Countries strike climate deal in Bali posted 1 year, 11 months ago 20 Responses

Punucation vs Eduishment

   Dear CanisCandida,

       I actually met some of these folks (not this one, but he may have been there) following the 2000 coup.  If they think you might agree with them, they can be quite pleasant.  But winning is ultimately what matters to them.

       And their world view is alien and immoral IMHO.

       Savage's language is scary.  And these folks would happily shake your hand as they escorted  you to the pits of Hell.

       It is impossible to teach people who's minds are this closed.  And we don't have the luxury of waiting a hundred years or so for them to come around.

      Alas, we're getting to the point on Global Warming where moderates are going to have to choose sides (fix it or ignore it), and being nice will not be a viable option....

      But then again, maybe i am wrong??

patrick in BeijingOn Notable quotable posted 1 year, 11 months ago 3 Responses

Taxes

    I have never seen a proposal as to how a carbon tax could practically be applied in a way that was not punitive to poor people.

    In order to change the behavior of those who cause most of the problem (the well off), it would have to be so high that it would destroy the lives of the poor.  Talk of tax rebates are meaningless if the checks arrive at homes where the inhabitants have starved to death months earlier.

    There is one tax that would work.  A whopping income tax would reduce the ability of the well off to consume so much.

    And the money could be applied globally to helping end poverty in a sustainable fashion.

    As to the market, it has never worked very well for the poor, since the rich can never resist the temptation to manipulate it, all the while crying "free, free".

patrick in BeijingOn Cato's Jerry Taylor responds to Michael Tobis posted 1 year, 11 months ago 131 Responses

Possibilities

   As much as I hate to say it, Kerry is almost right.  As long as the Democrats are wedded to the current system, they can't beat the Republican Minority and President Bush.

   But notice, when the Democrats where in the minority, they weren't willing to force the Republicans to give them what they wanted by threatening to filibuster.  

    Oops!!!  Why not??

   That is the real problem.  The right is willing to fight for what it wants, but the center-right mainly wants power, so is not willing to take any risks.

    Alas, this not only makes people angry, it allows the right to go home and chest thump to their constituents, and may actually harm the Democrats chances of making gains.

    This is why they always lose the "toughness" battle.

    The other problem the Democrats have is that they don't push their members to be more supportive of the majority.  The Rethuglicans had no qualms about threatening members who don't tow the line.  The Democrats have nothing but qualms.

    And it is tough to negotiate when the other side knows you will always give in.

patrick in BeijingOn Sen. John Kerry defends Dem decision not to force a filibuster on the energy bill posted 1 year, 11 months ago 22 Responses

Luxembourg

   People who don't believe that per capita emissions count, should feel free to average America with Luxembourg, divide by American population and reduce their emissions appropriately.

   Or they can average their emissions with Bill Gates and subtract the amount they need to reduce by to reach that of a Bangladeshi peasant, then reduce accordingly.

   Per capita certainly does matter.  Any attempt to ignore it will lead to NO progress at all.

   The reason so many Americans don't want to hear this, is that to accept it would be to take responsibility for the damage caused by our country.

   Apparently, many people are not willing to face up to that.  Too bad.

patrick in BeijingOn There is no comparison between Chinese and American GHG emissions posted 1 year, 11 months ago 41 Responses

Yet

   Mat, you say you should be ashamed of yourself, but still can't resist China bashing.  Where is that coming from?  I definitely get the idea that you don't like China.  But you don't offer a clear explanation of why China as opposed to say, India, or Brazil, or Venezuela.

   You should go and read your own link.  While you see it as all negative, my reading is that a lot of people, inside and outside of China are working to try to solve some very difficult problems.  How does that make the Chinese bad guys?  

   You might read Eric De Place's comments on why Al Gore's speech is wrong, and you might also explain why per capita CO2 production is less relevant than national totals.

   Finally, you say that nothing absolves the US, yet you posted in another thread that you were in support of the US refusal to sign on any Global Warming actions UNLESS China and India agreed to suffer more.  So, how is that different from George Bush's tactics at stalling, and denying?

   All I really get from you is that you don't like China.  Fair.  Don't visit!! (smile).  

   But China in this debate is not just China, it is the symbol for the attitude of the developed (read rich) nations towards the developing (read poor) to say nothing of the undeveloped (read poorest).

   Bashing China doesn't change it's dilemma.  How to raise it's people out of poverty in a sustainable manner.  It is trying and struggling, but so far the US is more interested in China as a scapegoat for it's own unwillingness to even try.  

patrick in Beijing

   On Greenpeace India points out the obvious posted 1 year, 11 months ago 14 Responses

Ah, to be polarized...

   I wish I could be, but the gases from America's SUV's melted the ice.... so I have to try to be penguinized instead!!

   Atreyger, do you have any numbers to support you?  Both Eric and James Hansen provide data, you are only making assertions without any supporting facts so far.  The Chinese government is spending a ton of money on planting trees, fwiw.

   Why does per capita matter?  Because it shows the broader picture, which is what the world is interested in.  That Americans deny it is no surprise, it is natural, just as it is natural for many Americans to deny that global warming is even happening.

   The advocates for using a strict national basis, end up supporting the do-nothing policies of George Bush.  This puts them in the same political camp as the global warming deniers.  

    The question is whether you want to really do something about global warming or are you just looking for an excuse to do nothing?  From here, it smells like the latter.

    (And if it wasn't China, the ohmigosh, Burundi isn't making hardly any progress at all!!).

patrick in Beijing

   On There is no comparison between Chinese and American GHG emissions posted 1 year, 11 months ago 41 Responses

The New Deniers

   Having failed in their attempts to convince people that global warming is occurring and caused by human beings, the new deniers have come up with other approaches.

   First they deny that anything can be done to stop it.

   Then they deny that anything needs to be done by arguing that it won't be so bad.

   Third, they say it is too expensive.

   Fourth, they say that the US shouldn't do anything as long as China and India don't do even more (per capita).

   This fourth argument appeals to American nationalism, xenophobia, anti-communism and heck, just downright fear of China (especially, with India being saved as a backup, perhaps).

    However, note, that people who say do nothing because of China and India are using one of George W Bush's talking points.  

    Their call to do nothing (which is not the same as being critical of some actions of other governments) puts them in the same boat as climate change deniers, opposing any changes which might prevent global warming.

    They should apply to Exxon-Mobil for grants!

patrick in BeijingOn What the fate of two old turtles says about China's future posted 1 year, 11 months ago 13 Responses

Gore Redux

  There is a good reason Gore won't run.  He's seen the polls.  He would be in around 4th place among the Democrats.  Except for a few folks here, there is no groundswell of support waiting for him.

   Generally, losing candidates fail the second time around (Nixon being the exception).

   So, he won't run.

patrick in BeijingOn There is no comparison between Chinese and American GHG emissions posted 1 year, 11 months ago 41 Responses

Mega Cities

    Fortunately the description of a mega city doesn't apply to the cities in China.  It seems to be true in much of the developing world, but the Chinese path is different.

    Lumping the entire developing world together is as dangerous as saying all white people in the world have one common culture (some of my students think so!).

    I urge Grist readers to learn more about the developing world, but must tell you that you won't find much except sensationalism in the American mainstream media.  Too bad.

patrick in Beijing

    On Why clean coal is so darn appealing posted 1 year, 11 months ago 37 Responses

Population

   Certainly population is a problem in this world.  But the greater problem is the denial of Americans of the damage the American lifestyle and government is causing to the world.

   The population of China is already on a path to decline (demographically), the government is planning for a rise in average age, and an how to deal with an aging population.  It isn't there yet, but the signs are clear.  So how come everyone is still concerned about China's population, and not, India's??  One is tempted to suspect bias (racial) or fear (or a rising economic power).

   You should also note that Mexico is also moving in the right direction, as is much of the developing world.

   Alas, for those determined to hold on to the American SUV-Macmansion lifestyle, it is only as people become wealthier that population declines.  A paradox, no?

   In terms of endangered species, the use of their body parts for TCM is terrible, but declining (at least in mainland China), and the government tries to crack down those who engage in the illegal animal trade.

   But the US does a very poor job of regulating the illegal importation of endangered species as toys (errr... pets) by it's own citizens.  So, beware of screaming at kettles.

   So much energy bashing developing countries, so little spent getting the US to do anything serious about climate change... sigh...

patrick in BeijingOn China's population rapidly rising posted 1 year, 11 months ago 10 Responses

Happening Elsewhere

  Thinking it is useful to provide a perspective from outside the US, here are a coupla links, FWIW.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2007-12/07/content_630 ...

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2007-09/07/content_608 ...

   Personally, I am against biofuels.  

patrick in BeijingOn The neverending debate on corn ethanol continues posted 1 year, 11 months ago 20 Responses

Ummm, that was probably me

   Seems to me I said that Biofuel is the enemy of the human race a while back.  (Going from David's oft remarks that coal is the enemy of the human race.)  I'll stick to it, too.

   This isn't just about money and mileage, and nice geeky things (as BioD well knows).

   Eric, there are real people who will suffer from the rising food prices from the biofuel follies.  

   Lots of real people.

   Biofuel advocates either ignore this issue or try to deny it.  Much like global warming deniers (well, global warming is here, so we might as well live with, the NAM laughs global warming out of the beltway).

   Most of the time, I really don't understand my fellow Americans.  

patrick in BeijingOn The neverending debate on corn ethanol continues posted 1 year, 11 months ago 20 Responses