apalmer918’s Recent Comments

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  If it's so great how come everyone's not doing it?

  Auden--

  Excellent points and I really like your redneck top 10.  I would like to add a couple wrinkles to the question of "If green building is so great, how come everyone's not doing it?"

  The quick answer is habits and incentive.  First, let's say John Green wants to build a green home and has done his research, bought the land, gets a good artichoke and enginerd who design a great solar oriented well insulated home and get the big stuff right.  Then he goes to hire a general contractor.  These guys are the bulldogs, in the trenches, and experts in their field with years of experience.  Most tell me they think green building is great and they'll do whatever the owner wants, but when it comes down to it, my experience has been that they'll talk you out of just about everything you want to do outside conventional construction.  Oh yeah, and enginerds and architightwads are the butts of all their jokes.

  Mr. Green: "We want to use ICFs for the foundation."  

  Mr. Contractor: "Those things are crap, can't get `em straight, you'll blow `em out, better not do it.  You don't need to insulate your foundation here, it's the banana belt"

  Green: "We want to do shallow frost protected foundation with fly-ash concrete"

  Mr. C: "Huh? (spit)"

  Green: "We want to use SIP panels for the exterior walls."

  Mr. C: "Those are too expensive, takes too long to order, what if there's a mistake, the electrician won't like it, stud framing good enough anything beyond r-19 won't pay for itself....." It goes on from there.

  Green: "We want a solar hot water system."

  Mr. C: "I know a guy who put one in that totally broke after a few years and didn't work worth a shit.  It would be a complete waste of money and you'd be an idiot."

  Green: "We want a radon mitigation system"

  Mr. C: "That stuff is a bunch of hogwash you don't need to and we never put anything like that in."

  Green: "Please recycle your beer cans and wood while drinking and working on our jobsite."

  "Yeah, cool, ok.  Bottles and cans, clap your hands."  Actually everyone's on board with that one.

  OK so my point is that I see the contractors as a huge piece in the equation who in my opinion have the most control in implementing this stuff (Other than code pricks and DRB Nazis).  Who am I to argue with them?  They're the experts in the field, they know what they're doing.  So you get talked out of it.  What started out as a green structure turns into something status quo and maybe you get lucky and use a little trex on the deck.  

  Contractors have little if any incentive to build any differently than they do now.  They don't live in these houses or pay for the heating bills.  They've made good money doing what they do, they do it well, and anything that changes or threatens that throws in a level of uncertainty and concern.  Hey building houses is hard work, dealing with bitchy homeowners who want they're frikkin travertine slab counters and endless pool system in before Christmas, DRBs, code zealots, sub-standard subs, and climate change-induced chaotic weather patterns.

  Educating homeowners is key but the hard part is we're programmed to buy the chrome package instead of paying attention to what's under the hood.  Even if you did there's no sticker on the window when you move in that tells you your miles per gallon.  When I talk to folks about R-values, thermal mass, boiler efficiencies and air infiltration, their eyes glaze over like Al Gore talking about global warming.  Dumb it down too much and you come up with some crappy pie chart in USA Today that says I can save the planet by turning down my thermostat and having someone look at my furnace to make sure it's running right.  I have to admit that even though on our project we're stoked to be able to do some good stuff, when I drive by a home built wrong but reasonably priced (is that possible?) it would be nice to just be able to move into something and not go through all the brain damage.

  So anyway that's where a green building code works and comes in as a win-win.  Just raise the bar and make it required.  Contractors then would know how to build to code and know what to expect and how to do it.  Homeowners get a code-certified green building with better indoor air and saves them money with little additional upfront costs or headaches.  The community and environment benefit collectively from improved material use and reduced emissions.  Egotects are happy because there's still plenty of innovation and creativity built in to the code so they can come up with the latest eco-design and get written up in all the fancy magazines even if in the real world their design sucks.

  Adam
  On Bring on the bulldogs posted 3 years, 5 months ago 5 Responses

• Click here to view comment in original post

  If it's so great how come everyone's not doing it?

  Auden--

  Excellent points and I really like your redneck top 10.  I would like to add a couple wrinkles to the question of "If green building is so great, how come everyone's not doing it?"

  The quick answer is habits and incentive.  First, let's say John Green wants to build a green home and has done his research, bought the land, gets a good artichoke and enginerd who design a great solar oriented well insulated home and get the big stuff right.  Then he goes to hire a general contractor.  These guys are the bulldogs, in the trenches, and experts in their field with years of experience.  Most tell me they think green building is great and they'll do whatever the owner wants, but when it comes down to it, my experience has been that they'll talk you out of just about everything you want to do outside conventional construction.  Oh yeah, and enginerds and architightwads are the butts of all their jokes.

  Mr. Green: "We want to use ICFs for the foundation."  

  Mr. Contractor: "Those things are crap, can't get `em straight, you'll blow `em out, better not do it.  You don't need to insulate your foundation here, it's the banana belt"

  Green: "We want to do shallow frost protected foundation with fly-ash concrete"

  Mr. C: "Huh? (spit)"

  Green: "We want to use SIP panels for the exterior walls."

  Mr. C: "Those are too expensive, takes too long to order, what if there's a mistake, the electrician won't like it, stud framing good enough anything beyond r-19 won't pay for itself....." It goes on from there.

  Green: "We want a solar hot water system."

  Mr. C: "I know a guy who put one in that totally broke after a few years and didn't work worth a shit.  It would be a complete waste of money and you'd be an idiot."

  Green: "We want a radon mitigation system"

  Mr. C: "That stuff is a bunch of hogwash you don't need to and we never put anything like that in."

  Green: "Please recycle your beer cans and wood while drinking and working on our jobsite."

  "Yeah, cool, ok.  Bottles and cans, clap your hands."  Actually everyone's on board with that one.

  OK so my point is that I see the contractors as a huge piece in the equation who in my opinion have the most control in implementing this stuff (Other than code pricks and DRB Nazis).  Who am I to argue with them?  They're the experts in the field, they know what they're doing.  So you get talked out of it.  What started out as a green structure turns into something status quo and maybe you get lucky and use a little trex on the deck.  

  Contractors have little if any incentive to build any differently than they do now.  They don't live in these houses or pay for the heating bills.  They've made good money doing what they do, they do it well, and anything that changes or threatens that throws in a level of uncertainty and concern.  Hey building houses is hard work, dealing with bitchy homeowners who want they're frikkin travertine slab counters and endless pool system in before Christmas, DRBs, code zealots, sub-standard subs, and climate change-induced chaotic weather patterns.

  Educating homeowners is key but the hard part is we're programmed to buy the chrome package instead of paying attention to what's under the hood.  Even if you did there's no sticker on the window when you move in that tells you your miles per gallon.  When I talk to folks about R-values, thermal mass, boiler efficiencies and air infiltration, their eyes glaze over like Al Gore talking about global warming.  Dumb it down too much and you come up with some crappy pie chart in USA Today that says I can save the planet by turning down my thermostat and having someone look at my furnace to make sure it's running right.  I have to admit that even though on our project we're stoked to be able to do some good stuff, when I drive by a home built wrong but reasonably priced (is that possible?) it would be nice to just be able to move into something and not go through all the brain damage.

  So anyway that's where a green building code works and comes in as a win-win.  Just raise the bar and make it required.  Contractors then would know how to build to code and know what to expect and how to do it.  Homeowners get a code-certified green building with better indoor air and saves them money with little additional upfront costs or headaches.  The community and environment benefit collectively from improved material use and reduced emissions.  Egotects are happy because there's still plenty of innovation and creativity built in to the code so they can come up with the latest eco-design and get written up in all the fancy magazines even if in the real world their design sucks.

  Adam
  On Why is green building still so hard? posted 3 years, 5 months ago 5 Responses