Navy can use sonar despite risk of whale harm, says Supreme Court 16

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1. 

   Tom Twigg Posted 6:05 am
   12 Nov 2008

   Buzz KillThis bit of news popped my post-election real-change-is-imminent euphoria and made me remember the Supremes ... that Bush gift that will keep on giving.

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2. 

   caniscandida Posted 6:23 am
   12 Nov 2008

   "plainly outweighs"There is nothing "plain" or simple about it.  The Supremes' majority so mischaracterizes not one but two serious matters of controversy:
   
   
   Does the welfare of human beings so far outweigh the welfare of non-human animals that even a very slight risk to the former justifies action that certainly will harm the latter?
   Does one kind of good for human beings, viz. defense against whatever danger is presented by enemy submarines, so far outweigh another good for human beings, viz. harmonious and responsible fellowship with non-human living creatures, that providing for the former is justified, even if it means damaging the latter?
   
   
   
   

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3. 

   catman Posted 8:44 am
   12 Nov 2008

   But in this casea message from the new Commander in Chief can tell the Navy to stop the super sonar training exercises.
   
   Course he'll have hell to pay if some subs, that can elude our older sonar, start showing up on the coasts armed with nukes.

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4. 

   archigeek Posted 9:46 pm
   12 Nov 2008

   db'sWell, perhaps we should subject the majority Supremes to the 220 FUCKING DECIBELS the whales are forced to suffer and maybe we'll see some different opinions. Heartless bunch of corporate-loving criminals. I guess all of those conferences "paid off". You can bet the contractors on the sonar filed friend of the court briefs. Oh, and the Navy brass-hats who sanctioned this: the same punishment.

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5. 

   Its Simple Posted 3:18 am
   13 Nov 2008

   Its Jim Connaughton's legacyAs chair of CEQ, he decided the fate of whales when he exempted the Navy from the National Environmental Policy Act.

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6. 

   Wolverine Posted 4:06 pm
   13 Nov 2008

   The Game Was RiggedThis decision was a done deal as soon as the Supremes took the case.  We all knew this was going to happen.  Canis and Archigeek echo my sentiments, except I'd take the "perhaps" out of Arhigeek's comment.

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7. 

   Annimal Posted 5:26 pm
   13 Nov 2008

   WhalesI have previously posted this at a blog piece:
   Whales, Dolphins and Sonar - A Note from Ann Novek
   
   Posted by Paul, at 11:32 PM
   Mid-frequency sonar signals linked to new pathologic entity in cetaceans.
   An ongoing battle has been fought between environmental NGOs , mainly NRDC , and the US Navy for more than a decade.
   The first rumours re the harmful impact of LFA ( Low -frequency Active) sonar on marine mammals, began already in 1994 , when NRDC investigated sound experiments off California coast. Even 300 miles from the source , these sonic waves have an intensity of 140 decibels , and some mid -frequency sonar systems can put over 235 decibels , as loud as a Saturn V rocket at launch.
   The use of deadly sonar in the world's oceans is spreading. The US Navy states ,the sonar is needed to detect hostile diesel -electric submarines from China, Iran and North Korea and other potential hostile countries.
   In late January 2008, a dead Northern Right Whale Dolphin washed ashore off California , and this death was linked to ongoing naval exercises.
   Sonar possible cause in death of rare dolphin
   " The lesions that we have seen to date are consistent to what has been found in the Canary Islands and the Bahamas", said lead veterinarian , Rowles , with the National Oceanic and Athmospheric Administration.
   "Scientists in the journal Nature theorized that these deep-diving whales might have panicked and bolted to the surface, causing decompression sickness, similar to the "bends" or air embolisms that can affect human divers. The problem arises when gas bubbles, compressed under the pressure of depth, expand rapidly and tear delicate tissues"
   Excerpt from Nature : " Macroscopically, whales had severe , diffuse congestions and hemorrhage , especially around the acoustic jaw fat , ears , brain , and kidneys . "
   Vetinary Pathology:
   "Gas and Fat Embolic Syndrome" Involving a Mass Stranding of Beaked Whales (Family Ziphiidae) Exposed to Anthropogenic Sonar Signals
   Severely injured whales stranded and died due to cardiovascular collapse.
   Another useful link :
   LA Times: Dolphin dies near sonar site
   Cheers,
   
   Ann Novek

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8. 

   caniscandida Posted 6:12 pm
   13 Nov 2008

   the Roberts CourtChief Justice John Roberts, who wrote this majority opinion, is presumably no relation to our own DR ...
   As though president-elect Obama does not have enough impossible labors to look forward to, he is going to have to deal with preserving a progressive presence in the already woefully unbalanced Supreme Court maybe as many as three times.
   Thanks, Ann, for your research.  Unfortunately, the US Navy and the Supreme Court seem to accept the conclusion of scientists, that sonar harms cetaceans; it is just something that they seem to care little about.
   Whether or not Archigeek's suggestion is quite the best way to go about educating Roberts & Co., the sentiment behind it is most understandable.

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9. 

   jimhadden Posted 6:30 pm
   13 Nov 2008

   SonarI'm with Mellotron! No human would survive such an assault. What makes the Navy think they must conduct their training in the vicinity of whale trajectories, especially after they have admitted that their projected sound levels (and praise to the reporters who commented on sound amplitudes instead of logarithmic measures)?

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10. 

    amazingdrx Posted 11:55 pm
    13 Nov 2008

    High power sonarThis active sonar exposes the position of the sub using the sonar.
    Listening for the enemy is much more effective as a warfare technique.  Diesel-electric subs are noisy and have very limited range, they pose very little threat to our state of the art nuclear subs.
    Robotic subs that stealthily listen for the enemy in critical passages and relay the information gathered back to the defending sub would be much more effective than active sonar.
    This extremely loud, marine life destroying sonar is antiquated and worse than unecessary.  It exposes our navy personnel to needless danger.
    The military is continuing these programs in order to keep crony military contractors in business.  
    The Roberts/Alito court is all about the rights of corporate "citizens".  So anytime human interests or animal interests threaten those absolute rights of corporations to pursue profit at all costs, the vote has been and will be the same.
    These bogus corporate "citizens'" rights must be removed from our legal system, they have no constitutional basis.  
    The navy ought to move into the information technology era to protect US from underwater threats.  Forget the dumb concept of overwhelmingly powerful active sonar, it's not effective from a warfare standpoint.
    Underwater robots indistinguishable from marine life are a much better defensive technology.  Cancel that whale/dolphin killing sonar.  In fact the navy has underwater listening systems protecting our shores already.  It is now used to study whales.
    Kind of ironic.  And cruel, and just plain ignorant.  But that's the nature of corporatism.

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11. 

    Wolverine Posted 3:12 am
    15 Nov 2008

    Where Exactly Is The Threat?And who has these silent submarines, anyway?  And if any country does actually have them, is there any evidence that they're planning on attacking the U.S. with them, or are a threat in any way?
    Police state fascists constantly invent false threats in order to pursue their illegitimate agendas.  This is just another one.

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12. 

    caniscandida Posted 4:09 am
    15 Nov 2008

    false threats and police statesExcellent connexion, Wolverine.  Cf. the Dick Cheney Hypothesis: Even as little as a 5% risk justifies trashing the Constitution.

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13. 

    Wolverine Posted 1:42 am
    16 Nov 2008

    Addition To Canis Comment"Cf. the Dick Cheney Hypothesis: Even as little as a 5% risk justifies trashing the Constitution."  And trashing the planet and killing everything.

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14. 

    caniscandida Posted 7:15 pm
    17 Nov 2008

    NY and LA editorialsKaren Dawn (of DawnWatch.com) has collected these fine pieces from two of our major newspapers:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/15/opinion/15sat3.htm
    http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/opinion/la-ed-so ...
    
    

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15. 

    jimhadden Posted 7:57 pm
    18 Nov 2008

    SonarThis is a huge setback for environmental protection.Given the accounts of whales that went to the beach and of others in grave danger because of the US'S  manio to test audio systems, it would seem obvious that USH could change the sites of its testing so that the lives of whales weren't endangerd as they are.

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16. 

    burncoal Posted 2:22 am
    19 Nov 2008

    Civil Security ForceWow, it's just a test, 12 practice sessions 11 which are complete to test equipment and train sonar techs.    
    As for "Police state fascists constantly invent false threats in order to pursue their illegitimate agendas.  This is just another one."  Please keep your eye on Obama and his "Civil Security Force equal to the military" to assist them and our police.  That's how Hitler got started, got elected and created the SS, of course I'm using the same stretched analogy expressed on a post within this bolg.
    Who has silent subs and would they attack?  Use your imagination while you shop Wal Mart - `China's golden egg'.
    For decades the USN has employed tracking devices now anchored around the world.  In fact each sub and surface vessel (think one world as well as inclusion) has a noise print on file that has been around for at least 30 years.  
    Try this link out: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0CE3DB16 ...
    Attack sonar needs to be tested and employed to make sure you have the right to question it.
    This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or exercise their revolutionary right to overthrow it. Abraham Lincoln
    
    

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