How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: Responses to the most common skeptical arguments on global warming A Grist Special Series

‘Vineland was full of grapes’—Or was it an early advertising campaign? 4

(Part of the How to Talk to a Global Warming Skeptic guide)

Objection: Newfoundland was so warm in the Medieval Warm Period that when the Vikings landed they called it Vineland and brought boatloads of grapes back to Europe.

Answer: Once again: you can't draw conclusions about global climate from an anecdote about a single region, or even a few regions. You need detailed analysis of proxy climate indicators from around the world. These proxy reconstructions have shown that the Medieval Warm Period (around the time the Vikings are said to have discovered North America) was not as pronounced or as warm as today's warmth. From NOAA's paleoclimate website comes these quotes:

What records that do exist show that there was no multi-century periods when global or hemispheric temperatures were the same or warmer than in the 20th century ....

... In summary, it appears that the 20th century, and in particular the late 20th century, is likely the warmest the Earth has seen in at least 1200 years.

As for the specific anecdote that Vineland was a warm land where grapes grew wild: as with the Greenland story, Vineland's name was most likely a kind of marketing ploy. This 1988 article by Robert McGhee for Canadian Geographic had this to say:

There has been much argument over the location of Vinland, with scholars and local enthusiasts placing it anywhere between Labrador and Florida, and even in the Great Lakes or the Mississippi Valley. The geographical descriptions in the Norse sagas are too vague to allow certain placement on a modern map, but there is growing consensus that they best fit Newfoundland and Labrador (formerly Newfoundland). The main problem with a Newfoundland and Labrador (formerly Newfoundland) site is the absence of wild grapes. Still, there is a strong suspicion that what Leif found were only berries, and that he followed the practice of his father in "giving a land a good name so that men would want to go there".

(That comes from this page, which has lots of good resources on the Viking expansion.)

So, grapes growing in Newfoundland: paleoclimate's smoking gun, or medieval marketing ploy? You decide.

Former musician, turned tree planter, turned software engineer. Same old story…

I have been blogging about climate change since 2006 at A Few Things Ill Considered.

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  1. Bob Beal Posted 12:00 am
    18 Apr 2007

    Vinland grapes

    Hi:
    I am a Canadian historian who has been interested for years in the Vinland grapes story. I don't have the Sagas in front of me, so I do this from memory.

    There are problems with the Sagas' account. When they landed in North America, the Vikings did not know what grapes looked like. A German who happened to be with them identified "wild grapes" at the place they landed. The only certain archeological Viking remains are at L'Anse aux Meadows at the northern tip of Newfoundland. It is impossible to say for certain if that was the location of "Vinland" or "Wineland" or "Leif's settlement," but it seems to me to be likely. However, if the Sagas' account of the times of the solistice at Vinland are correct, the place was not that far north.

    When I finally got around to visiting L'Anse aux Meadows (a beautiful place) a few years ago, one thing that struck me was the enormous variety and profusion of berries in that part of the world. Some of them resemble grapes. Many of them are very tasty. I am no winemaker, but I suppose you could make wine from any of them.

    In any case, I don't think Leif the Lucky named Vinland as a marketing ploy. I think he mistook wild berries for grapes. But that is just my guess. No-one knows for sure.

    Best,

    Bob Beal.

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  2. Coby Beck's avatar

    Coby Beck Posted 7:05 pm
    18 Apr 2007

    thanks Bob

    Thanks Bob, good point, honest mistakes happen!

    "What if this weren't a hypothetical question?" -- unknown

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  3. Anne G Posted 6:42 am
    26 Feb 2008

    Good one

    I liked this post a lot, it was well written. The grapes in Newfoundand was probably a marketing ploy or something close to that.

    Anne. Freelancer currently working on the lose 50 pounds project.

    Permalink

  4. Cacaoatl's avatar

    Cacaoatl Posted 6:54 pm
    27 May 2008

    Vikings Drank Mead Not Wine

    I have read another theory that Vinland can also mean Meadowland or Grassland or something like that depending on where you put the accent. The "Vikings" (they never called themselves that) often carried cattle with them on long voyages and would have been more likely to be looking for grass for their cattle and not grapes for wine. Besides, the Scandinavian drink of choice was mead made from honey not wine made from grapes.

    Permalink

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'There is no evidence' -- Yes, there is 59
'Mauna Loa is a volcano' -- CO2 rise is measured on top of a volcano! 8
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Understanding what is happening right under our noses does not require paleoclimate perfection 1
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'Hansen has been wrong before'--Maybe, but not about the climate! 13
'It was warmer during the Holocene Climatic Optimum'--This period was not global and not like today 4
'The Medieval Warm Period was just as warm as today'--Repeating this point does not make it true 216
'Greenland used to be green'--Don't judge a book by its cover, much less a land by its name 23
Yes, the last ice age started thawing over 20,000 years ago, but that stopped a long time ago 5
'The hockey stick is broken'--Well, no ... but who's playing hockey anyway? 6
'Vineland was full of grapes'--Or was it an early advertising campaign? 4
'Global warming is part of a natural cycle'--This idea is one short step above appealing to magic 39
'Mars and Pluto are warming too'--No they aren't -- and what if they were? 24
'Volcanoes emit more CO2 than humans'--Not even close ... 31
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'Natural emissions dwarf human emissions'--But emissions are only one side of the equation 5
'The CO2 rise is natural'--No skeptical argument has been more definitively disproven 12
'We are just recovering from the LIA'--Why should we expect this to happen? 4
'Climate scientists dodge the subject of water vapor'--No, they really don't 4
Water vapor is indeed a powerful greenhouse gas, but there is plenty of room for CO2 to play a role 29
There is no proof in science, but there are mountains of evidence 78
'CO2 doesn't lead, it lags'--Turns out CO2 rise is both a cause and an effect of warming 43
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'Historically, CO2 never caused temperature change'--Not so 19
'It's the sun, stupid'--Very bright, yes, but not getting brighter 18
The problem is not how high the temperature may go, but how fast it is changing 14
'Kyoto is a big effort for almost nothing'--Kyoto is only in its first phase 16
China and India have joined Kyoto, they just have different obligations, as is morally appropriate 3
'Climate change mitigation would lead to disaster'--Not really, but this may be lesser of two evils 6
Only if you ignore fossil fuel emissions 10
In 2008, did temperatures drop as much as they rose over the whole 20th century? 71
Is the IPCC so wrong their theories contradict a basic laws of physics? 23
Is the American Physical Society a crack in the climate change consensus? 3
Summer ice in the Arctic has recovered--Was the Arctic ice retreat a climate anomaly? 7
'Global warming comes from within'--Is heat at the Earth's core the real cause of global warming? 10
Was there another breathless announcement of another phony record, and another quiet retraction? 1
Hansen wants the skeptics thrown in jail--Did James Hansen really want to try the climate skeptics? 6
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