The Big Green Bus rides again 14

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1. 

   Ron Steenblik Posted 11:48 pm
   09 Aug 2007

   And so?What's their message?

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2. 

   infp Posted 12:25 am
   10 Aug 2007

   Big Green BusTheir message is that there are viable alternatives to petroleum power.  That may be old news to Grist readers but it may still come as a revelation to many Americans.  Roll on Big Green Bus!

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3. 

   Ron Steenblik Posted 1:10 am
   10 Aug 2007

   Yes, butIf they mean yellow grease, that isn't much of an alternative. The United States produces approximately 12 billion pounds of animal fats (tallow) and recycled cooking oils (yellow grease) annually. At 8 pounds of fat or yellow grease per gallon of biodiesel (the ratio would be about the same when using the stuff straight, as the Big Green Bus does), that translates into 1.5 billion gallons a year that could be produced, if every bit of that fat and yellow grease were collected.
   A more realistic top collection ratio would be more like 1/4 of the total. So that brings the number down to 375 million gallons a year of alternative fuel.
   U.S. consumption of diesel fuel is running at around 56 billion gallons per year. So we're talking less than 3% displacement if somehow ALL the tallow and yellow grease could be collected and turned into or used as fuel. A more realistic maximum share would be 0.67%. (Don't forget, also, that these fats and oils also have other markets, particularly tallow for soap-making.)
   And at what cost? Currently, biodiesel made from tallow benefits from a $1.00 per gallon federal subsidy; if it is made from yellow grease it gets a $.50 per gallon federal subsidy. Small producers merit an additional $0.10 subsidy. Many states provide their own subsidies on top of that.
   Since the Big Green Bus is using straight recycled oils, it is doubtful its owners are receiving subsidies, but it is also doubtful that they are paying the federal tax on diesel (24.4 cents per gallon), nor state fuel excise taxes (which average 18.2 cents per gallon), nor other taxes levied on diesel (which average 10.1 cents per gallon), which total on average 52.7 cents per gallon.
   The question then comes down to: could a 0.67% reduction in national diesel use be obtained for $225 million/year or less? My guess is yes.

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4. 

   Ron Steenblik Posted 1:45 am
   10 Aug 2007

   CorrectionRereading, I realize my last sentence was unclear. (I wish there were an edit option.) What I meant to say was, "The question then comes down to: could a 0.67% reduction in national diesel use be obtained through other means for $225 million/year or less? My guess is yes.

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5. 

   greentrain Posted 3:06 am
   10 Aug 2007

   Biofuel DialogueI am fairly certain that most everyone who reads grist is now convinced of the utter implausability of replacing our current fuel consuption with biofuels.  Obviously reduction is key, to start.  Perhaps I am mistaken in my inerpretation, but I don't think the Big Green bus crew are disputing that, but rather spreading their fuel message and opening up a very important dialogue that may very well result in new innovation. (keeping in mind they also utilize wind and solar power in their vehicle makeup) I say: "Keep on Truckin'"

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6. 

   GreyFlcn Posted 3:44 am
   10 Aug 2007

   Question to RonWhere does the 56 billion gallons of yellow grease come from?
   Since the figure I've seen is 4.2 billion pounds.
   
   Which is much less than 56 billion gallons.
   
   (Considering petroleum weighs roughly 6.5 gallons)
   Way I see it, it's closer to only 0.3% of our petroleum ground transport fuel needs.

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7. 

   GreyFlcn Posted 3:45 am
   10 Aug 2007

   Linkhttp://www.insidegreentech.com/node/376
   Nationally, restaurants produce an average of 14 pounds of inedible grease per capita annually - a total of nearly 4.2 billion pounds each year in the United States alone. Much of this grease is disposed of in landfills, where it releases methane - a potent greenhouse gas - as it decomposes, sometimes directly to the atmosphere.

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8. 

   GreyFlcn Posted 3:50 am
   10 Aug 2007

   But even if it was peanut oilOne has to beg the question, how green is it to take nitrogen fixing plants.  And then create a biofuel out of them.
   
   http://greyfalcon.net/n2o.png
   
   http://greyfalcon.net/lcarough7.png
   Aren't we really just shooting ourselves in the foot?
   _
   Turning coal into diesel would be more ideal.

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9. 

   Ron Steenblik Posted 3:51 am
   10 Aug 2007

   RE: Question to RonGreyFlcn: I didn't say 56 billion gallons of grease, I said that annual consumption of diesel is 56 billion gallons.
   Total production of yellow grease AND tallow is around 12 billion pounds.
   But your estimate of 0.3% of our petroleum ground transport fuel needs (i.e., including gasoline) sounds reasonable.

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10. 

    GreyFlcn Posted 3:55 am
    10 Aug 2007

    So where could I citeSo where could I cite that 12 billion pounds figure from?

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11. 

    GreyFlcn Posted 4:01 am
    10 Aug 2007

    Also, can youAlso, can you really turn tallow into biodiesel?
    I thought tallow had far too high a iodine content to make it worthwhile.
    For instance, the chinese tallow trees.
    
    Only the oil is useful to biodiesel, where as the tallow on the outside of the nuts doesn't appear to be worthwhile.
    http://aiche.confex.com/aiche/2006/techprogram/P67546.HTM ...
    
    http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/duke_energy/Sapium_seb ...
    _
    Perhaps thats specific to this one plant.

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12. 

    Ron Steenblik Posted 4:09 am
    10 Aug 2007

    More answers for GreyFlcnThis is not a primary source (which is probably th USDA; I just haven't found it yet). The number is from 2004: I've rounded up.
    You are confusing the tallow nut with tallow as in animal fat. There are plenty of biodiesel plants using tallow (even fish oil) as a feedstock.
    And then, of course, there is lipodiesel.

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13. 

    swan Posted 10:33 am
    10 Aug 2007

    Bus PeopleMy partner, who is a 60s style synthesizer musician, and I traveled all over the country for 5 years from 1996 to 2001 in a converted schoolbus. Here's a link to a page in my blog with a picture of the bus: http://goodwordswan.wildflowerstew.com/the-bus-people/
    We traveled alone, not following a band or festival schedule, just on our own. We had all kinds of adventures, met all kinds of people, almost all of them kind. I'm writing a book about our adventures called, The Bus People. I love seeing the next generation keeping up the tradition of gypsy storytellers and I love that they are setting such a good example by how they are doing it.
    
    "Us nature mystics got to stick together." Edward Abbey

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14. 

    Biodiversivist Posted 11:06 am
    11 Aug 2007

    Feeding the planet...to our cars.
    http://www.agrisurfer.com/mirror.aspx?dt=/attachment%2Fsize%5Foriginal%2F84016145%2DC762%2D41FC%2DB715%2DC5CB0ECF266C%2Ejpg
    
    
    
    In the end, it all comes down to biodiversity. Poison Darts--Protecting the biodiversity of our world

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