Singer is quite consistentI have a copy of Singer's "Hot Talk Cold Science" Revised 2nd Edition, 1999. My copy of "Unstoppable Global Warming" is currently mislaid, but I recall that between the two books Singer was quite consistent in his bottom line conclusion, quoted here from p.91 of the first book:
"Policies to limit CO2 emissions by energy or carbon taxes, while superficially attractive, are economically damaging to the great majority of countries..."
Now, the rationale for this, and the scientific unreasoning, have changed often, but never the bottom line... :-)
Kansas and Global Warmin'I got a huge crack out of your post, Joseph, but it doesn't surprise me one bit...
I am from Kansas but currently studying climate change at Oxford for a masters degree, and I am constantly amazed at the idiocy of the vast majority of our legislators in my home state. While I love it dearly, quotes like the following from Melvin Neufeld, the Speaker of the Kansas House of Representatives don't give me much confidence in that body's ability to address the issue: "They tell us that if you jog two miles you emit more carbon dioxide than if you drive two miles."
Are you serious?! I mean, I know Melvin is a bit old, but COME ON!
Luckily, Governor Kathleen Sebelius and Lt. Governor Mark Parkinson just GET IT. As you mentioned, they took a huge step in denying permits to Sunflower Electric to built two 700-MW coal-fired plants near Holcomb last fall, and are taking HUGE steps toward making Kansas a world leader in wind energy. I think you will continue to see great things from those two leaders - and they are truly leaders - in the current legislative session and throughout the rest of their term.
And, you're right, Joseph - I don't think anyone in the scientific community takes Fred Singer seriously. Let's hope the Kansas Legislature refuses to take him seriously, as well!
-GreenOx
Never have seen a page with a good explanation of Milankovitch cycles, why solar forced warming can't explain current warming, and how GHG can explain current warming. (This is one of our weakest arguments, so we need a very understandable argument for it)
How we know the CO2 is manmade
Info on why 2006 hurricanes were weak
Info on Gore's "Errors" by a UK judge, and the difference between Errors and "Errors"
Why 1934 really wasn't the hottest year on earth
Polar Bears
NAS review of Mann et al. didn't discredit it
Moberg 2005
Baliunas 2006 / Singer 2006
Svensmark 2007
The issues with the Troposphere, and how John Christy continues to lie about it.
James Hansen isn't being bribed by George Soros
etc.
And then just in general, clumps of counter arguments:
The alleged "errors" in An Inconvenient Truth
The real errors in Great Global Warming Swindle
...read more
Poleward ice starting to go?A wee bit off topic, but some recent scoop says that the Antarctic is losing lots of ice on the western side near the Ross Shelf ... a volcano was discovered, and "lakes of water" exist under the pack ice that when warmed, could really melt it fast. Not sure if I got the stories right but they're dramatic and attention-grabbing.
Meanwhile in the Arctic, sea ice formation is extremely thin and likely to melt even faster next summer (source: Jeff Master's blog, highly respected).
Good article, Mr. Romm. If there was some BS it was about whether CO2 was man-made, which obviously not all is. It should be noted that the generalized models are only capable of measuring increases in anthropogenic CO2, which in turn increases CO2 concentration in the atmosphere, all other things being equal.
Unfortunately, the only way one can portray a "model" to a redneck is to show a cardboard cut-out of Farrah Fawcett with her tits falling off....
Well, reading the Wikipedia article on Joseph Romm. He is obviously a smart and impressive guy...but a scientist? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_J._Romm
I would say he is a pundit, a policy maker, a political technology advisor...but I don't see any primary scientific research to his credit?
one page that lists all the arguments tersely in one place. If you can get someone undecided to read that page, it's fairly powerful.
Links to a page apiece that describe the argument, point at who uses it, show why it's wrong, and point at relevant articles.
The terse item #s and codes make it easy not to waste space, which is very important in letters to editor and postings on websites that have constrained wordcount, where denialists are advantaged by the relative ease of causing confusion versus creating clarity.
One can easily write: Ho-hum, standard debunked arguments #3, 7, 10 from the website. Ntohing new, and if you have any doubt, look at the scientific references the detailed web pages.
That tends to derail incitements to long discussions that make it look liek there's a real argument.
Here's a usage example, in a site with a tightly-constrained word-count:
For the sake of a future for our children................. choose the good works of Joe Romm rather than the contrived, yet consistent thinking of Fred Singer.
Saying the same things over and over, as climate change denialists are known for doing, makes these naysayers perverse, not right.
Steven Earl Salmony
AWAREness Campaign on The Human Population, established 2001
Remains famousI should hope so, as he has contributed a lot.
Thanks to the lectures from Dr Singer of some 20-25 years ago, I had the opportunity to learn the fundamental bases of heat and mass exchange - of how the atmosphere actually works.
How many reading here can consider an atmospheric phenomenon - and say, yes, I do understand?
Prime exampleSinger is a perfect example of "science" for sale. Of course, once it is sold, it is no longer science.
Industry pays a shill like Singer to lie, then industry shilling legislators have him testify. It's a great system. It's called corporatism.
The GOP model of government efficiency.
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Singer is quite consistentI have a copy of Singer's "Hot Talk Cold Science" Revised 2nd Edition, 1999. My copy of "Unstoppable Global Warming" is currently mislaid, but I recall that between the two books Singer was quite consistent in his bottom line conclusion, quoted here from p.91 of the first book:
"Policies to limit CO2 emissions by energy or carbon taxes, while superficially attractive, are economically damaging to the great majority of countries..."
Now, the rationale for this, and the scientific unreasoning, have changed often, but never the bottom line... :-)
-John Mashey
Kansas and Global Warmin'I got a huge crack out of your post, Joseph, but it doesn't surprise me one bit...
I am from Kansas but currently studying climate change at Oxford for a masters degree, and I am constantly amazed at the idiocy of the vast majority of our legislators in my home state. While I love it dearly, quotes like the following from Melvin Neufeld, the Speaker of the Kansas House of Representatives don't give me much confidence in that body's ability to address ...read more
Speaking of whichGrist's "how to talk to a climate skeptic" hasn't really been updated in the past year.
Stuff like:
Mars (NASA findings of massive dust storms, why Abrusimov is wrong, and how the mars rover nearly got killed by the storms)
Nothing on the Lezpig, Lezpig mkII, Canada 100 scientists, or Inhofe 400 scientists
None of the new admissions by the IPCC, or new studies finding that MAYBE their sea level rise figures were understated.
...read more
Poleward ice starting to go?A wee bit off topic, but some recent scoop says that the Antarctic is losing lots of ice on the western side near the Ross Shelf ... a volcano was discovered, and "lakes of water" exist under the pack ice that when warmed, could really melt it fast. Not sure if I got the stories right but they're dramatic and attention-grabbing.
Meanwhile in the Arctic, sea ice formation is extremely thin and likely to melt even faster next summer (source: Jeff ...read more
Joseph Romm...Scientist?
Well, reading the Wikipedia article on Joseph Romm. He is obviously a smart and impressive guy...but a scientist?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_J._Romm
I would say he is a pundit, a policy maker, a political technology advisor...but I don't see any primary scientific research to his credit?
Viva la Climate Resistance!
Good sourcesI've gotten good use of:
http://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php
Which could also use some updating, but is well-organized. In particular:
one page that lists all the arguments tersely in one place. If you can get someone undecided to read that page, it's fairly powerful.
Links to a page apiece that describe the argument, point at who uses it, show why it's wrong, and point at relevant articles.
The terse item #s and codes make it easy not to waste ...read more
Your Gonna Need an Ocean, of Calumine Lotion...You're kidding right?
http://www.skepticalscience.com/global-warming-positives- ...
Here's one of the agricultural negatives of global warming.
AGWers are scraping the tarmac...better land and refuel, with some real science!
Viva la Climate Resistance!
For the sake of a future for our children................. choose the good works of Joe Romm rather than the contrived, yet consistent thinking of Fred Singer.
Saying the same things over and over, as climate change denialists are known for doing, makes these naysayers perverse, not right.
Steven Earl Salmony
AWAREness Campaign on The Human Population, established 2001
http://sustainabilitysoutheast.org/
Remains famousI should hope so, as he has contributed a lot.
Thanks to the lectures from Dr Singer of some 20-25 years ago, I had the opportunity to learn the fundamental bases of heat and mass exchange - of how the atmosphere actually works.
How many reading here can consider an atmospheric phenomenon - and say, yes, I do understand?
Prime exampleSinger is a perfect example of "science" for sale. Of course, once it is sold, it is no longer science.
Industry pays a shill like Singer to lie, then industry shilling legislators have him testify. It's a great system. It's called corporatism.
The GOP model of government efficiency.
http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog