Brian Depew at The Rural Populist drew my attention to this story about TAB Funkenwerks, an audio-electronics outfit.
They needed a new home for their business. A 30K sq. ft. space in Seattle would have run them, oh, probably $3 million or so. Instead, they bought an abandoned school in Gaylord, Kansas.
Off Ebay.
For $25,000.
Both Oliver and Gwen will tell you, buying the school was a fabulous business move. They have everything they need to for growth right there in Gaylord: high speed internet, daily UPS, a pool of eager potential employees, and, most importantly, a very low cost of doing business.
But personally, the move from Seattle (pop. 600,000) to Gaylord (pop. 145, give or take a few) was quite the lifestyle adjustment. But Oliver says it was all for the good.
"I never thought it would be this positive coming out here. I mean the people from Kansas told me, 'You would love it." But others said, 'Kansas? Are you insane? They have tornados there.' But it was the best thing I even did in my life, moving out here. It was jumping to cold water and actually figuring out it was nice and warm."
Here's another story about it. And here are some more schools on Ebay.
The midwest is basically being depopulated. And some clever folks are noticing the opportunity to live for incredibly cheap.
I've been pondering this for a while, in a vague way. What might the environmental or energy implications be of repopulating the Midwest? It would get people away from coasts, which is good in an age of rising sea levels. But it might spread them out farther. But they could re-use existing infrastructure instead of building it anew.
I don't yet have a settled opinion on the issue, but I thought I'd raise it here. Any thoughts?
Comments
View as Flat
bookerly Posted 12:13 am
30 May 2006
All these rinky dinky states amount to affirmative action for conservatives.
Let's merge a few and take away their extra senators and stuff (I know the "stuff" idea will cause trouble for me, people love their stuff.).
patrick
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caniscandida Posted 3:42 am
30 May 2006
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mihan Posted 6:47 am
30 May 2006
In the midwest, eating locally and responsibly is easier. Living is cheaper, life is slower and more pleasurable. I shop at farmers' markets and coops (the midwest has a high coop density; Madison, pop. ~200k, has three). When I buy meat (except fish, which is so expensive I rarely cook it), I buy it directly from the farmer or someone who personally knows the farmer, or I get it from a relative or friend who hunts. I don't own a car: when I need one, I rent, which is cheaper than owning a car.
The only disadvantage is the driving: both the culture and necessity of (which are related). Intercity bus and rail service is bad or nonexistent; everybody drives everywhere, everybody has a car. I'm moving to a small town (pop. 10k), and managed to find an apartment where I can continue my car-free existence, but it was hard and people looked at me funny.
We have sprawl problems in the midwest, to be sure (think: Minneapolis-St. Paul), but if good urban planning can take hold (think: Chicago and Madison), there is great potential for smart, environmentally-friendly repopulation. It will require changing how people think about higher population density and public transportation; most midwesterners see them as bad.
P.S. to Patrick: you can't have Russ. He's my senator.
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kmp Posted 7:35 am
30 May 2006
Two - it's no secret that you'll do a lot more driving for your everyday life in Gaylord, KS than you will in Seattle. Anything you need or want to do is going to be further away, and there will be no good public transport options to get there.
Don't get me wrong, I think this story is pretty heart-warming and I'm happy for the folks in Gaylord and for Oliver & Gwen. As a general rule, however, I'd rather see a group of, say, 20 enterprising young hippie-types pool their money, buy a school, and make bedrooms, communal kitchen, artist studios, relaxation areas, etc., etc. out of an old school. Maybe more community stores, food markets, etc., would spring up around this locale and while it revitalizes a small town's population & economy, it is actually energy-efficient and could be the center of a new kind of "New Urbanism."
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amazingdrx Posted 1:38 pm
30 May 2006
Just saw him at a town meeting in Minoqua. we were going in the back door of the library as he arived. My sister said, "There's the next president!" He chuckled and held the door for us and shook our hands.
I said, "Really we came to see you because you were on the "Daily Show".
It was a great meeting, we all got to ask a question. Even the two Republicans, one that wanted to hire bounty hunters to round up all 20 million illegal aliens ("let private enterprise do it", he said.), and one that wanted to repeal all gas taxes and emmissions standards to lower gas prices were addressed politely and fairly, (even though we clapped down the second guy on Russ's response, hehey).
Senator Feingold doesn't deserve the rotten job of fixing this mess o bushmania (thanks to Jon Stewart's mess o' potamia)even though he maybe the only one honest enough to do it.
http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog
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bookerly Posted 6:33 pm
30 May 2006
Okay, okay, we can keep Russ. How about if we merged Wyoming, the two Dakotas, Montana and say, Nebraska?
We'd be down by at least eight fairly lousy senators and a whole buncha congress folks ....
It's not that I'm against the midWest, I merely wanted to point out a side effect of the population discrepancy between states, unequal representation. And I believe, mostly on the "anti" environmental side.
On the other hand, since we don't want to do anything about global warming, we need someplace to put the 150 million or so refugees when they arrive.
patrick
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caniscandida Posted 9:44 pm
30 May 2006
2.To Mihan: I for my part would never include Minnesota and Wisconsin among the Plains states. And even eastern Iowa and Missouri belong to their own Mississippian region. Saint Louis has been called the last Eastern city as you go West. When I was living in Montana, and told newly met people that I was from New York, they would cheerily say, "Oh, I have friends (relatives) Back East!" And they would mean such places as Saint Paul or Milwaukee. As though those friends and I were neighbors. In fact, it struck me that the intelligentsia of Montana are all originally from Minnesota or Wisconsin.
Congratulations for giving Russ Feingold to all of us. He is indeed a Profile in Courage; and I am unhappy with those Democrats who gave him the cold shoulder for his censure movement. (Nice going, Amazing, that you and your sister got to cheer him on.)
And even more, the loss of MN's Paul Wellstone was a terrific blow. The Fall of 2004 gave us too many reasons for dropping into depression.
3. To Patrick: Your state-reduction scheme makes sense. Of course it will never happen. And sometimes good things can come out of the system: e.g. Tom Daschle, Byron Dorgan (ND). True, Daschle, in red SD, ought never to have been so vulnerable to Rove's machinations; and now John Thune has adopted Rick Santorum as his role model. At least Conrad Burns is looking vulnerable in MT, not that I think very highly of the Dem challenger John Morrison.
I am surprised that you said nothing about what definitely can be changed: the Electoral College. If these dinky little red states were not so absurdly over-represented in presidential elections ("affirmative action for conservatives" is very well put), we would nowadays not be wringing our hands over poor Al Gore in 2000.
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amazingdrx Posted 10:32 pm
30 May 2006
That was the best part of the meeting. He explained how that all worked, and it was a confirmation of my contention about DC functionaries.
Maybe a third of the crowd mentioned erosion of our constitution and administration law breaking in their remarks.
The senator explained what happened on a key vote to reform the patriot act to protect privacy. He had the votes to do it, all the democrats and 4 republicans, when the administration started using that infamous talking point that any vote against any provision of the patriot act was "helping the enemy".
That frightened the senators, the vote was lost, and the patriot act was not fixed. Why were they frightened? Because consultants told them that the people do not care about this issue of privacy and constitutional rights.
It was the same on the censure. Consultants claimed people do not care about our rights or if the administration follows the constitution.
He also mentioned the McCain anti-torture legislation, that passed overwhelmingly, but the president reserved the right with a signing statement to ignore that law.
Basically envoronmental and other organizations donate money to get our issues across in DC, and consultants take money from both sides and sell US out.
http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog
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bookerly Posted 12:53 pm
31 May 2006
It is true I didn't mention the electoral college, we should abolish it and go to popular vote. Or stop talking about democracy. It has always amazed me that conservatives are so against affirmative action, when the electoral college and US Senate are the biggest examples of it in society.
(And I ignored the total disenfranchisement of the people of Washington DC, which if it were done elsewhere in the world would be seen as a human rights issue).
An interesting take on a different kind of election system can be found in Robert A. Heinlein's "Double Star". Worthwhile for sparking discussion.
Patrick
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Soultek Posted 1:32 pm
31 May 2006
I've lived through enough administrations of both parties to know that both parties almost always represent special interests, not the people's interest (Yes McCain said that).
I was a student at Madison when Russ started his election by spraypainting his garage door, and I hope he goes far. I'd love to see such an outsider become President.
Still, since graduation I've lived in Los Angeles and I have worked for some of the most liberal lobbying organizations in the United States. I've also met some of the most racist, elitist and powerful liberal, Democratic supporters in the United States.
If these people are representative of the great Democrats that Patrick, etc. seem to think are so much better than conservatives, I'll side with the conservatives - even though I don't agree with conservatives on hardly anything.
The majority of mainstream politicians are about one thing, money, which is why Russ will never be President.
I won't argue with Patrick that most Republicans don't suck, but I will argue that far too many Democrats also suck.
Chad Snyder
www.soultek.com
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amazingdrx Posted 3:06 pm
31 May 2006
One of those consultants?
You despise the hypocricy of some liberals so that justifies working for conservatives (when the wind changes) too? Whatever gets you executive jet expense account lifestyling?
With some kind of rationalization to preserve your own integrity. Thus negating your own possible hypocricy in your own mind.
But this hypocricy fallacy, a common one Dave often points to, is an ad hominem. The actually sound corolary of this is finding contradictions in an opponents position.
And the contradiction in your position is that you claim to despise your own actions and at the same time place yourself above it all. Helping to represent special interests instead of the interests of the people.
Then you claim Russ can't make it because he doesn't seek the money you help hand up the line. Isn't that about it?
A man that sells hope in return for contributions to we the people, but cynically does not believe there IS any hope, so you take the executive jet and blame someone else.
DC lobbyists are at war with themselves,the classic sophist's dilemna, hehey.
http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog
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bookerly Posted 8:46 am
01 Jun 2006
Or should that be "Sorry I don't love Democrats".
Dear Chad Snyder,
The last time I looked (when I was still living in California), I was registered as a Green. I got totally disgusted with the democratic party when the US Senate voted 99-0 (Yeah, ZERO, NO ONE voted no) to fund further Star Wars Research.
I do vote democratic once in a while, but puke for three days afterwards and stay hidden in my bed in shame.
(One of my suggestions to encourage more people to vote is to provide "vomit collection buckets" next to voting booths.)
Ummm, some of my posts are serious, some are humorous (I thought :( ). Guess it is not always easy to tell which is which. Which is how I feel about the one party/two names American political system...
patrick
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atreyger Posted 2:47 pm
01 Jun 2006
I agree that Dems are BS, I know that Reps are bigger BS. It's sad, when you are choosing the lesser of two evils.
I am not a Democrat though, they stand for something which I do not agree with. None of us are either one, since we are multi-faceted creatures with many opinions and our own knowledge. For example, I am pro-small local government with the feds only concerned with defense of the borders and certain others: healthcare? interstate infrastructure? research and development, but not of local land? If we cannot live in a certain place (much of New Orleans due to hurricanes/below sea level), we shouldn't look for a hand-out from the Big Brother to make us the levees, which then break, and then can't look for another hand-out to fix that problem. Let the natural migration patterns and local planning take care of that.
As far as concentrating the upper states into one? I'm not sure that's a good idea. They're as big as any and thus probably as hard to manage: roads, surveying, patrolling. When you start talking about consolidating, what about Delaware and Rhode Island? New Hampshire and Vermont would make a nearly perfect square, so we should do that, shouldn't we? Maryland seems like too small of a state, stick it together with WV and VI. Hell, why have North and South Carolina, just call it one.
It's not the size of the land, it's what you do with it...
Oh, and P.S. yea electoral college? That was a compromise in early US history that I believe was never resolved. This issue should be put back on the table so that we could do something about it.
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amazingdrx Posted 4:36 am
04 Jun 2006
A mention in the local news from the Feingold meeting:
"John Schneider asked Feingold to look into developing a national park on the prairies in the central part of the continent. He said the park could house giant wind turbines, to provide clean, cheap energy
"Feingold liked Schneider's idea and said he would study the proposal. He also said he is frustrated by those who immediately call for drilling in ANWAR or developing more nuclear power as the answer to the nation's dependence on foreign oil."
http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog/_archives/2006/2/9/1752958.html
http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog
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caniscandida Posted 6:14 am
04 Jun 2006
It is brave of Feingold, isn't it, to put himself over and over again into situations where he is likely to face critics. But that is part of an elected official's job. Hillary, like Russ, makes a point of visiting every county in her (my) state; no doubt she meets with groups of citizens; but what the nature of those meetings is, I do not know.
It may be too unfair a stereotype, but it seems that by contrast the Republicans tend to restrict access to only their friends and supporters. Certainly in the past 25 years, when the ruling strategy of Reagan, Limbaugh, Gingrich, Grover Norquist, Karl Rove, Tom Delay and the rest is to secure a permanent Republican majority, they will do whatever it takes to win -- and that includes not wasting time with people who may disagree. Some of the most frightening TV ever was the campaign speeches given by Bush or Cheney, posing as free and open addresses to citizens, but at which only worshipers were allowed to be present. Talk about a constitutional crisis, Mr. Feingold!
Back to Mr. Feingold: I am not altogether happy with the sentence about how he is "frustrated with those who immediately call for drilling in ANWR," specifically the word "immediately," as though he can imagine a scenario in which drilling there will be acceptable. Of course he may not actually mean that. Or else, he may not actually have said that, and "immediately" was slipped in by the reporter.
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bookerly Posted 5:00 pm
04 Jun 2006
Promises by politicians to "look into" something, or "study" something usually amount to "nothing". Both wings of the one true party do the same thing, it calms people down and convinces them that "maybe" "someday" "something" "just" "might" happen.
It's nice they "listen" once in a while to consituents, but the real listening happens when there is a lot of money present.
And the leading lights of neither party have shown serious interest in alternative power (except for ADM's boondoggle, corn-oilagarchy).
If they were really interested, they would be trying to get some serious money into developement and rollout, not promising "consideration" and "studies". We'll be knee deep in big muddy before these folks get serious.
ONLY when constituents start DEMANDING action (or no votes) will they listen.
patrick
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amazingdrx Posted 9:56 pm
04 Jun 2006
After all he keeps takings chances, like with the censure, based on principle.
Yes support from the actual states where the park would be located would certainly help canis. I have heard from residents of these plains states that many would welcome the economic boost this plan would provide.
I envision local power companies from surrounding states investing in wind installations in the park too.
As power companies from inland states near the coasts would invest in wind/wave installations offshore.
This scheme could take care of the needs of the entire country, along with solar on roofs and over parking lots and small to medium wind at homes and husinesses.
http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog
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bookerly Posted 10:17 am
07 Jun 2006
It is not that, amongst the corruption and cowardice, someone sometimes stands and speaks a little bit of truth.
But in the larger scheme of things, neither Feingold or any of the other "semi-liberal" members of Congress, seem to be making much difference.
Who is his staff person for environmental affairs?
Does he even have one?
If any of them were serious about the environment, they would be getting weekly (or daily) briefings on legislation and proposals.
The congressional environmental causcus would be actively pushing it's basket of legislation.
But, really, none of this is happening...
So, while he may be a nice guy, what real impact is having one lonely semi-liberal on your side going to make? In the movies it works, but not so in real life.
patrick
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amazingdrx Posted 7:58 pm
07 Jun 2006
Better than having a neoconservative.
With a bunch of moderates motivated by one honest man, like Feingold, and bolstered by we the people telling them that we DO care about the constitution and the state of the planet, who knows what is possible?
We know what is happening with the status quo, a government filled with faux conservatives. Disaster.
Get used to it, we are in a hopeless battle. Might as well think positive.
To quote Donald Sutherland's character in "Kelly's Heroes": "It's a mother beautiful bridge, and it's gonna be there."
http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog
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bookerly Posted 7:21 am
08 Jun 2006
Dear AmazingDrX,
You are correct, that a lousy liberal is at least a little better than a neoconservative. I certainly prefer Feingold to say, First or Lott.
And certainly I want us/you to fight on, we may lose, but we don't have to give up!!
My intent is to try to get people to be more active, not less!! Sometimes I sound confused. Perhaps I need to try to find a way to inspire more and criticize less. Sigh. (I may not be the best inspirational leader!).
I do once in a while post my ideas for how progress can be made. Sadly, no one ever replies (good or bad). But my cynicism draws notice. Go figure!! (grin).
patrick
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amazingdrx Posted 1:47 pm
08 Jun 2006
I certainly have my cynical side as well. Then I go biking in the woods and get happy again, hehey.
http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog
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caniscandida Posted 6:49 pm
08 Jun 2006
be of good cheer, and please know that one of us at least always reads what you write, and is always impressed. I have a sense of what you are asking for, at least as you wrote regarding neighborhood activism on another thread, in conversation with our excellent Legume Sam: well, coming at that from a teacher's background, I must say it cannot start with simply jumping up and running outside and ringing doorbells. No. There must be lots of education beforehand, lots of organization beforehand, lots of planning on specific projects. And lots of knowing about who you are talking to.
E.g.:
Q: [ice-breaking question] Do you drive much?
A: Well, no, actually, I never got a license, and never figured I needed one. But, you know, the DMV issues these neat little photo IDs for people like me; here, let me show you ...
Anyway, not only am I dumb, I am also feeble. All these years I have been lamenting the fact that swordfish and "Chilean sea bass" are offered in restaurants up and down the West Side, and have not been able to do a thing to change it. Talking to restaurant managers is pretty futile. But I have a populace-rousing tactic in mind for this summer. We shall see. Please join me in my prayers for wisdom and courage.
Amazing, good for you, you get to ride through those woods on your sturdy bike. Remember please all of us who have never smelled sweetgrass.
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amazingdrx Posted 9:12 pm
08 Jun 2006
When you get going in a discussion here, especially with Pat, it puts some real persuavive force behind the changes we all know are needed.
Fish, the one area we haven't been able to have much positive effect on here in paradise. They are full of mercury and get smaller and smaller as over fishing with hi-tech sonar for a few short sighted tourist dollars is ongoing.
And virtually no managment or enforcement due to decades of decimation of real conservationists within the department of natural resources by our longtime former GOP governor Thompson, a Bush administration bumbler in his waning years.
The infiltration of political operatives into intelligence agencies by the Bush administration in order to lie US into Iraq, could have been modeled on Thompson's gutting of environmental protection here in Wisconsin.
It continues long after his term in office. And is now helped along by the bushwacking of the economy and tax base with these oil wars, related deficits, and soaring energy costs.
http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog
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bookerly Posted 12:21 pm
10 Jun 2006
AmazingDrX and CanisCandida, thank you both for the kind words. I also read your posts and learn quite a bit. I regard debate on discussion on a blog such as this as a way not only to share my thoughts, but as a good way to be forced to think, both by my allies and by those I disagree with!! (And would you believe I try to get my students to write short sentences?).
I bike every day, but it is transit, so not very relaxing. The students inspire me, and keep me going. (And frustrate and irritate me (grin)).
Caniscandida, I don't believe you are feeble! And will wait with pleasant anticipation for the news of your attempts at changing fish eating habits.
All that any of us can really do, is try our best, and I know that most of the posters here are indeed, doing that, every day of their lives.
pace,
patrick
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amazingdrx Posted 11:23 pm
10 Jun 2006
The perspective you lend from China is an excellent part of it, right on the leading edge of all these issues on a global scale.
Could you get any of your friends there to participate too?
http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog
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caniscandida Posted 12:39 am
11 Jun 2006
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bookerly Posted 7:10 pm
12 Jun 2006
If Grist is getting postings in Chinese, are you sure it's spam? Is anyone reading it? Or getting it translated?
I haven't seen it, it would be interesting to see what it says. (And I am not saying it isn't spam, just wondering if anyone is sure if it's not being translated.)
As to multiple thread submissions, it is possible that someone here is using a server that collects and then posts messages in groups. It may be as simple as a request for help or information by someone who isn't sophisticated in web usage. Or spam.
As to feeling that Grist is being targeted thus, I assure you that any kind of attack would be done much more seriously.
Why don't I try to get some of my friends to post here?
One, some of them are scientists who are too busy working on the problems to come and chat.
Two, some are shy, and have only so-so written communication skills, and would probably be trashed so badly that they would never dare to write in English again!
Third, tone. The style here is mostly very American, which is NOT the Chinese style at all. Some people in China would adapt to it pretty easily, but a lot would be offended. And that would not be a good thing.
patrick
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